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18 Month climber - 5/15/2008 9:57:58 AM
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Pat-rebel_lady
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We have our 18 month old grand-daughter living with us, she climbs up on the sofa, chairs, and stands up on them; rolls around, and runs on the sofa. She throws screaming temper-tantrums when told "no".
Her mother and I (I watch her when daughter is busy else where) was wondering if anyone had any ideas on how to deal with this problem, And, what type discipline is best geared to an 18 month old.
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RE: 18 Month climber - 5/15/2008 10:09:22 AM
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lexie
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Oooh that's my daughter right there! She likes to use the arm of the couch as a balance beam (she's 17 months old). She also likes to sit on the coffee tables.
The thing that has worked best is removal and distraction. When she does it, we lift her up off of the couch or table and set her on her feet. We say "the couch is for sitting on" or "not on the table" and then we ask her to go find something or go do something. Usually we ask her to find her favourite teddy. As she goes looking for it, she usually forgets about what she was climbing on.
If she does try to go back and climb again, we sit in front of whatever she is trying to get at and we stay firm about her not climbing up there. She'll cry for a bit, but then we give her another task to do.
We have one thing in the house that we do let her climb on (the treadmill, we don't use it so it's not plugged in and it's low enough she won't hurt herself if she falls). Since she figured out that it is ok to climb on that, she doesn't climb on the tables and couch as much.
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RE: 18 Month climber - 5/15/2008 10:10:15 AM
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Sideways
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What is wrong with her climbing on the furniture? My boy has been climbing on furniture since he was 10 months old, sometimes he falls off, but he doesn't get hurt. Is she hurting the furniture?
Kids have a lot of energy, more then you or I could possibly imagine. Does she have opportunities to run, play and get all that energy out? Not all girls like to sit quietly and make tea parties. If she's an active girl then no wonder she's bouncing off walls.
As far as temper tantrums, there are more experienced people here to advise you on that, but most people suggest ignoring the tantrum, don't let her get any attention from it.
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RE: 18 Month climber - 5/15/2008 11:05:18 AM
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pbaribeault
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At this age, your limits have to be very black-and-white. If the rule is that her feet do not touch your furniture, that's workable to enforce -- but only if you do it every time, and only if you are willing to go through her venting her frustration in an age-appropriate way (which will probably involve screaming).
When you enforce limits, you are essentially trying to upset the girl (as a negative consequence, so that she will not do it again) so it should not surprise you that she is upset. The skill of being upset, but not screaming about it not something that I would try to teach at this age... at least not at the same time as I was trying to teach about not climbing.
First, you should consider whether this is something you want to get into. If her feet may not touch your furniture, that basically means that furniture is off-limits unless someone lifts her on to it. You will need to provide some other sorts of things for her to sit on (at her own level) and also to teach her an acceptable way to ask to be lifted on to a couch or chair. You will also want to spend some of your own time seated at her level, so that the no climbing rule does not become a form of social exclusion.
Another possible rule would be that couches are a place for settled behaviour. For this rule, you will have to teach more details to her (exactly what is settled vs. unsettled). If your rule has details, the details must be taught and understood before they are enforced.
So, depending on your rule, you need a key-word command, such as, "Settle." or "No feet." I'm going to work with, "No feet." as an example.
First, you calmly in an every-day way explain to her the new rule, with the key-word. You show her using her feet what is not allowed, and ask her yes/no questions to make sure she has understood. ("Feet OK here? Noo-oo! Feet OK on floor! Bottom OK on couch. No feet on couch.... Feet OK on chair? Noo-oo... No feet on chair.")
Next you enter the demonstration phase. Any time the feet contact the forbidden places you gently grasp the foot and replace in on the floor, saying in a clam, firm voice, "No feet." At the beginning, you do this a few times in a row as she may try to continue to get where she wants to be, but you might place her further away throughout the process. This is still teaching. She's not at the age where if she gets it once, she's going to retain the information. Give her lots of affirmation for going along with you putting her foot down, for giving up her attempt after one intervention, or especially for putting her foot down on her own or for looking at the couch and clearly deciding not to try for it.
Shortly, she will show you that she understands the limit, and she will begin to check and see if it applies all the time. This is 'testing' -- not in a 'testing your resolve' way that an older child does, but in an actual 'just checking to see how far the rule goes' kind of way. This is the MOST critical phase, because this is when she is figuring out if this is a permanent rule for always, or if there are exceptions that she should continue trying to figure out. If she gets the impression that she should try to figure out the exceptions, you are going to get a lot more 'testing' than if she comes to the conclusion that there are no exceptions.
So, now you enter the enforcement phase (Only after the process before, or you are just introducing confusion and conflict!) At this point, if you see feet touch the couch, you say, in your calm firm voice, "No feet." If she replaces her foot on the floor you congratulate her (of course) if she doesn't you approach her and, looking her in the eye, repeat your command while firmly placing her foot on the floor. If she resists at all, apply an immediate consequence (such as moving her across the room, setting her down on her bottom and walking away).
This kind of thing will make her cry and/or scream. I'd advise you to let her cry, or even comfort her after a few moments. You did upset her on purpose after all. If she dives right into a tantrum though, you can implement whatever strategy you have for temper tantrums.
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RE: 18 Month climber - 5/16/2008 11:42:25 AM
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Row1
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we don't care abt climbing on furniture with the 2yo.
but a few months ago, he wanted to climb on the glass top coffee table. [yes i know a great idea with a toddler around.]
we set that rule. he would 'test the limits' lean on it.
he actually figured out if he did not have one foot on the ground, that was the limit (pool hall rules).
if he goes too far despite verbal notice, i just calmly pick him up and put him in his crib.
so far, this has worked well.
in the crib is better than a time-out corner or some other kind of time out for us at this age.
but you have to be careful - so far, he really likes his bed, and getting put there for breaking a rule has not spoiled it. so we are lucky there. but they change so quickly - what works one month doesn't work any more the next month.
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RE: 18 Month climber - 5/16/2008 12:45:36 PM
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zoebob
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I am trying to figure out how an 18 month old can sit on the couch without her feet touching it. Unless she is balanced on the edge. Most 18 month old kids if they sit against the back of the couch, their feet will be on it because their legs aren't that long. OTOH: I don't keep my own feet off the couch. A couch is for getting comfy.
While running and standing on furniture is not a good idea because of their safety I wouldn'g have a problem with a kids climbing on and off and rolling around on it.
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RE: 18 Month climber - 5/16/2008 1:00:19 PM
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Pat-rebel_lady
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quote:
Oooh that's my daughter right there! She likes to use the arm of the couch as a balance beam (she's 17 months old). She also likes to sit on the coffee tables.
Glad to hear someone else here has a little one going through the same thing; knowing this really helps.
quote:
What is wrong with her climbing on the furniture? …….. Is she hurting the furniture?
Nothing wrong with climbing on the furniture and sitting or lying down quietly (which she does do for short periods)!! No she is not hurting the furniture --- hurting furniture has always been the least of my concerns. Height (falling distance) is the number-one concern; the sofa cushions are 21” off the floor and the arms are 26 ˝” inches off the floor (she is only 3 inches taller), husband’s recliner is the same. So standing-on, running-on, flopping-on, or crawling as fast as she can across, and/or, leaning way… over… the edge of the cushions or off one of the arms to see the floor below, or using one of the arms as a balancing-beam are only good for one thing --- making my heart jump to my throat and pound like a jackhammer at the speed of light, while my hands and knees turn to Jello and shake uncontrollably, and new gray hairs pop-out on my head --- all simultaneously. She’s at a stage in her life where she thinks she is invincible; she walks forward and backwards, runs and crawls as fast as her little legs will go --- but doesn’t watch where she is going; her eyes are always fastened to her goal point. She only had one fear, the vacuum cleaner and attachment hose. Two weeks ago I was sitting at my dressing table doing my hair and the vacuum cleaner and hose were against the wall (temporary home for it) between her and I, she would not pass it to get to me, no matter how I or her mother tried to assure it would not hurt her, she cried and backed away. Sooo…., we decided to put the attachment hose on the sofa, and the upright vacuum cleaner itself in front of the recliner; within an hour she made friends with them and they were no longer a threat or obstacle --- climbing-up resumed.
We even tried taking the cushions off, but this sofa (Wing-back Colonial style) has no padding between the heavy coiled springs, only a thin sheet of what looks like heavy cheesecloth (I know there is a name for it, just can’t remember what it’s called) with tattered and torn holes here and there. I even tried to secure a heavy quilt, but it didn’t work she kept pulling it off, no matter what I did, and than it’s an open invitation to put little fingers in the holes and pull/rip them bigger.
Anyway, Thanks for all the input, suggestions, and sharing posts; we’ve tried most of them, to little avail so far.
If we can get through these stages; climbing; pulling on every electric/cable cord that can be found including those at the outlets  ; everything in the month including the backs of her book bindings (can’t leave her alone with a book or paper --- or anything); and screaming tantrums; maybe, just maybe there is still hope for us after all. In the meantime  we’ll keep dealing with this early stage of the trouble two’s. 
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RE: 18 Month climber - 5/16/2008 1:11:53 PM
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Pat-rebel_lady
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quote:
Most 18 month old kids if they sit against the back of the couch, their feet will be on it because their legs aren't that long.
Sitting against the back she spreads her legs open, leans forward with her head and arms stretched as far forward as she can, lifting butt in the air, grabs edge of cushion and pulls herself forward until her head is over the edge and hands reaching down towards the floor. With heels dug into cushion and butt up, and head and arms down, she almost looks like a lop-sided backwards 'C' standing on end --- with opening against the cushion).
< Message edited by Pat-rebel_lady -- 5/16/2008 1:18:54 PM >
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RE: 18 Month climber - 5/16/2008 2:08:58 PM
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PrincessDonna
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When one of my little ones (too young to be reasoned with) is continually doing what I continually tell them not to do, we use the pack n play as a time out. We make it clear that what they are wanting to do is not okay, stern NO, shaking head, never, ever laughing about their antics, no matter how much you want to.  If they continue and do whatever you don't want them to anyway, then I pick them up and put them in the pack n play, with a repetition of the command (NO stairs being the one of choice right now).
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RE: 18 Month climber - 5/16/2008 2:41:55 PM
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Pat-rebel_lady
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Hislittleone
It sounds like you have a very normal and healthy toddler on your hands.  My youngest is 18 months old and he climbs some but not that much (thank goodness). He likes to sit/stand on the coffee table. When he stands up we tell him "sit down" and he almost always complies (we usually have to say it several times in a firm voice). He used to climb on the couches and that's ok as long as he sits down. We remind him to sit if he forgets and stands up. He's climbed up on our kitchen table (have a hard tile floor underneath  ) and we just take him down while telling him "no no", "no climbing". Same thing for when he hangs on the edge of the table swinging back and forth. Oh, he used to climb on our end table. I told him "no climb" several times and the last time he did it I was standing right next to him and he ended up falling off before I could catch him. It scared him more than it hurt I think. He hasn't climbed on it since. So I guess overall we use redirection and saying "no" or other concise commands depending on the situation. At this age I've only used time-out several times.
I also like the idea of making sure a child gets to play outside every day so they can expend some of that pent up energy. It makes bedtime a little easier IMO as well as sleeping through the night.
As far as tantrum go, it seems ds is beginning to have them and we just ignore it (while making sure he's in a safe environment where he can throw himself on the floor without getting hurt).
Also, if she's putting everything in her mouth she may be teething. Our son just got two new teeth and has had his hand in mouth constantly. His favorite teether is a plastic bendable spoon (can get them at Babies R Us or Baby Depot) and he loves to chew on his toothbrush.
ETA: LOL! Just after I posted this I had to go remove ds from the couch where he was standing, leaning too close to the edge in order to reach a light switch. I put him down in the kitchen and he's completely fogotten about the light.
We don't have a coffee table; not since we moved here, 5 years ago; but I had to remove one table stand that had a middle shelf, because she emptied the shelf and sat on it and played with the outlet on the wall; we blocked the outlet with a tape cabinet in its place.
I removed he,r from the sofa, so much yesterday; while my husband took her mother for a job interview; that I can't even walk today without the cane. She thinks standing-up on the couch and chairs is some kind of a teasing me/us game mixed with determination of getting her way at all cost. The only place we have for a 'time-out' is her crib and I hate using that as a punishment area. I even got out a small pan and lid, gave her an empty plastic juice plastic bottle, and measuring cups for distraction --- she just took them with her; I kept removing them --- "No toys on sofa!" --- and she'd stand-up and I'd remove her "No standing-on sofa!". She'd cry, pick herself up and grab a toy and up she'd go again, and again, and again ..... --- I finally put her in the crib for quite time; I needed it!!
quote:
As far as tantrum go, it seems ds is beginning to have them and we just ignore it (while making sure he's in a safe environment where he can throw himself on the floor without getting hurt).
Yes, we do this too!!
quote:
I also like the idea of making sure a child gets to play outside every day so they can expend some of that pent up energy.
Yes, we do this as much as possible, but we're getting rain again, and its too wet and damp for much out-side stuff yet.
quote:
Also, if she's putting everything in her mouth she may be teething.
She has a full set of teeth; just finished cutting through her last 2 year old moler.
quote:
Also make sure she is getting plenty of climbing time OUTside at a playground. Climbing is an important motor skill, keeps kids learning and exploring, and gives them a sense of accomplishment. My baby can go down the big slide by himself (I catch him) and will do it over and over.
No playgrounds that I know of within walking distance. We do let her climb the deck steps when out side, and I have a step-chair in the kitchen that I remove the seat and let her climb on.
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RE: 18 Month climber - 5/16/2008 2:52:08 PM
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Sideways
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Pat-rebel_lady
quote:
I also like the idea of making sure a child gets to play outside every day so they can expend some of that pent up energy.
Yes, we do this as much as possible, but we're getting rain again, and its too wet and damp for much out-side stuff yet.
So let her get wet; let her get muddy. If need be go to a large store and let her run around.
I still don't understand why kids can't stand on the sofa. Nathan has taken a few tumbles and never cries for more then 15 seconds, even when he split his lip. Sorry, I do watch over my son's health and well being, but I'm just not the over-protective type.
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RE: 18 Month climber - 5/16/2008 3:56:03 PM
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Pat-rebel_lady
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Sideways
quote:
ORIGINAL: Pat-rebel_lady
quote:
I also like the idea of making sure a child gets to play outside every day so they can expend some of that pent up energy.
Yes, we do this as much as possible, but we're getting rain again, and its too wet and damp for much out-side stuff yet.
So let her get wet; let her get muddy. If need be go to a large store and let her run around.
I still don't understand why kids can't stand on the sofa. Nathan has taken a few tumbles and never cries for more then 15 seconds, even when he split his lip. Sorry, I do watch over my son's health and well being, but I'm just not the over-protective type.
Well...., what can I tell you? Yes, her mother IS over-protective of her; since Lexie IS her only child, and most likely will be her only child --- as she is over 40. And I am a grandmother, and great-grandmother (for the '5'th time as of April 25th) so I guess I'm a touch more protective when she is in my personal care because she is not MY child --- but my grand baby.
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RE: 18 Month climber - 5/16/2008 5:15:39 PM
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Sideways
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Ah, now I can definitely understand being more protective of a child who isn't your own. I get very jittery over my nieces, because I don't want them hurt on my watch. So, I do hear you.
And my child is (currently) my only born child, but I guess I kinda expect that he'll get scraped knees and such. But falls off the couch really aren't that bad, especially for an 18-month old.
But, still the mother's wishes are paramount. I hope you are able to work things out.
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RE: 18 Month climber - 5/16/2008 5:58:54 PM
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NotDoneYet
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At 18 months old...this little one is learning all about balance, positions, etc...while jumping, rolling, diving, etc.
If they fall...a 21" fall isn't going to hurt that much...they're a lot tougher than you'd think.
My 3 year old has tumbled down the steps more than once...she is in a rush and gets off balance or misses a step and down she goes! She gets to the bottom, yells at the steps (it's their fault she fell), comes for a hug and a kiss and off she goes again!
We don't allow jumping on furniture...and if they do it, they get to SIT quietly for some period of time (usually 3 to 5 minutes). They eventually learn that it's just not worth the time out.
However, I do agree with the other posters...she needs to be able to run, play, skip, jump, even throw a ball for some time every day...they work on their motor skills and expend energy that way...even if it's just in the backyard.
And if it's raining...so what? Put a rain slicker on her and let her go. Mud washes right off...honest! A little soap, a little shampoo, a big fluffy towel and some dry clothes set them right again!
Have FUN with this little one...
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RE: 18 Month climber - 5/16/2008 6:14:42 PM
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pbaribeault
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I understand why you might not want the girl standing on your sofa (for possible damage, for possible falls, and for learning to be a well-behaved little girl) but I'm not sure why the toys are not allowed on the couch, if she's sitting nicely with them.
The bottom line is that if you are going to have a lot of rules, you are going to be doing a lot of enforcing. If that much enforcing is beyond your body's abilities, you might need to try a different strategy.
Also, were the kitchen toys a good distraction because they were new to her, or is it that she doesn't have many / any other toys at your home? She has a crib there, though... do they live with you? As far as time-out, you can do a confined-to-lap time out, or you can use a whole room with the door closed (as long as the room is baby-safe) or even a put-her-outside time out (with you outside too, weather permitting).
You mentioned that your daughter is going for a job interview -- If she gets the job, are you planning on doing quite a lot of child care while she works?
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RE: 18 Month climber - 5/16/2008 10:14:26 PM
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sunshine4God
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I'm starting to wonder if kids ever ougrow the climbing stage.The 5 year old I babysit is always climbing on something,the counters,chairs,She even climbed on the table today. I call her a little monkey.
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RE: 18 Month climber - 5/16/2008 10:15:36 PM
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Jenny-Fair
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I would probably not allow standing on couches, because over time it does break them down. But I don't believe in trying to protect children from natural consequences or non-serious injuries. Your granddaughter will only learn balance by falling. So if you are not going to let her climb on the furniture, then she needs some large-motor-activity, appealing things to climb and balance on and, yes, fall off of.
Make her a balance beam out of a 2x4. This can be done indoors, even. Get an old mattress for jumping on--my grandmother used a piece of foam and that worked well. Buy some plastic bowls, small ones, at the dollar store, and set them stepping-stone like upside down on the floor and teach her to step from one to the next with one foot at a time--it's a challenge! If you want to expose her to numbers, number each one and put them in order--and then don't worry when she rearranges them, lol. Use cardboard boxes or make a tent out of the dining-room table for crawling through. Set up an obstacle course. Hang a tire swing outside.
You see, God made little kids like this. This is a positive developmental step. You cannot stop her from climbing, falling, etc...so you just need to give her appropriate options for doing so. Trying to quash this is only going to cause problems later on, and is no good for any of you.
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RE: 18 Month climber - 5/17/2008 11:13:17 AM
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Pat-rebel_lady
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quote:
have pictures on the walls above couches and shelves and lamps right beside the couches that he feels he is at liberty to touch when he is at the same height as them, so we wanted him to know couches *are not* a means to getting to things that are up on the wall.
We're also over at other peoples homes a lot, and I wouldn't want him climbing on other peoples couches, so it is a consistency thing too.
Exactly!! Great Post; Thank you!!
quote:
We do have child sized things that he climbs all over - and four bean bag chairs too. We just stack them in the middle of the floor and he climbs all over them
We don't have bean bag chairs (couldn't find any, so got a Dora chair), but has different size & filled Throw-pillows she stacks and climbs over on the floor, and has been climbing in and out of her Toy Box (Clear Tote) before she could even walk. She also has a toy Winny Pooh Airplane she climbs on and rides | | |
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He's a boy through and through and can manage to bang himself up just sitting on the floor 
