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Age Of Accountability... - 10/22/2009 9:37:41 AM   
tafkam

 

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When I was growing up, I always heard about the "age of accountability", which is supposedly the time where you can in fact be sent to hell for your sins. Apparently, the idea was that before a certain age (which was usually around 12) you were too young or immature to understand the concept of eternal consequence for sin, and as such if you were to die at a young age, you would still go to heaven.

While that sounds good, I have not been able to find any Scriptural support for such a concept. It seems inconceiveable to me that God would send, say, a five year old to hell.....and the Age Of Accountablity concept certainly helps us feel better about the scenario of a young child dying....but how do we Scripturally resolve the issue of age, maturity, understanding, etc....

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RE: Age Of Accountability... - 10/22/2009 2:28:33 PM   
Psalms274


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I think the notion of “age of accountability” comes from the Old Testament. There are quite a few references to the requirement of having to give an offering for those older than twenty years of age. Here are a few:


quote:

Ex. 30:14 14 All who cross over, those twenty years old or more, are to give an offering to the LORD.

Exodus 38:26 one beka per person, that is, half a shekel, according to the sanctuary shekel, from everyone who had crossed over to those counted, twenty years old or more, a total of 603,550 men

Numbers 1:3 You and Aaron are to number by their divisions all the men in Israel twenty years old or more who are able to serve in the army.

Numbers 1:18 and they called the whole community together on the first day of the second month. The people indicated their ancestry by their clans and families, and the men twenty years old or more were listed by name, one by one


When God punished the Israelis for there unbelief (hence they had to wander in the dessert for 40 years) the punishment was for those who were over the age of twenty:

quote:

Numbers 14:28-30 So tell them, 'As surely as I live, declares the LORD, I will do to you the very things I heard you say: In this desert your bodies will fall—every one of you twenty years old or more who was counted in the census and who has grumbled against me. Not one of you will enter the land I swore with uplifted hand to make your home, except Caleb son of Jephunneh and Joshua son of Nun.


I do not know if this is what you were looking for ... I am not an expert ont the subject ... but do know there were exceptions made based on the age in the Old Testament.

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RE: Age Of Accountability... - 10/22/2009 2:59:17 PM   
rawr.ben


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Psalms274

I think the notion of “age of accountability” comes from the Old Testament. There are quite a few references to the requirement of having to give an offering for those older than twenty years of age. Here are a few:


quote:

Ex. 30:14 14 All who cross over, those twenty years old or more, are to give an offering to the LORD.

Exodus 38:26 one beka per person, that is, half a shekel, according to the sanctuary shekel, from everyone who had crossed over to those counted, twenty years old or more, a total of 603,550 men

Numbers 1:3 You and Aaron are to number by their divisions all the men in Israel twenty years old or more who are able to serve in the army.

Numbers 1:18 and they called the whole community together on the first day of the second month. The people indicated their ancestry by their clans and families, and the men twenty years old or more were listed by name, one by one


When God punished the Israelis for there unbelief (hence they had to wander in the dessert for 40 years) the punishment was for those who were over the age of twenty:

quote:

Numbers 14:28-30 So tell them, 'As surely as I live, declares the LORD, I will do to you the very things I heard you say: In this desert your bodies will fall—every one of you twenty years old or more who was counted in the census and who has grumbled against me. Not one of you will enter the land I swore with uplifted hand to make your home, except Caleb son of Jephunneh and Joshua son of Nun.


I do not know if this is what you were looking for ... I am not an expert ont the subject ... but do know there were exceptions made based on the age in the Old Testament.


Those weren't exceptions on whether someone was with or without sin, or whether they were deserving of eternal life, though.

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RE: Age Of Accountability... - 10/22/2009 3:29:19 PM   
DaveW


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The church I grew up in held that the age of accountability was somewhere about 4 or 5.

There is no biblical support for it whatsoever.

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RE: Age Of Accountability... - 10/22/2009 8:43:04 PM   
RJR_fan

 

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quote:

The church I grew up in held that the age of accountability was somewhere about 4 or 5.

There is no biblical support for it whatsoever.


The Hebraic concept of family and calling put the focus on the God who initiates the process. Jewish boys (and the families they will grow up to represent before God) were incorporated into the covenant at the age of 8 days. Christians use water rather than a Gillette blue blade to achieve the same purpose, and apply the sacrament to males and females equally.

Once our infants have been baptized, consecrated to God using the means He ordains and provides, our job is to raise them up in the light of the grace given them, to carry the baton for their leg of the relay race of life.

Sadly, some folks still assert that the New Covenant is inferior to the Old Covenant in this regard. Under the OT, covenant, election, and calling reached through families to the next generation, in the person of the infants. Some folks would have us believe that God intends to withhold covenantal incorporation in His people and purposes for some undefined period of time, until the New Deity, human choice, pipes up.

(Of course, Roe v. Wade demonstrates how wonderful it is for kids when choice becomes god!)

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RE: Age Of Accountability... - 10/22/2009 8:54:18 PM   
Memaw.


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I was taught it was the age when Jesus taught which was 12. (Luke 2)

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RE: Age Of Accountability... - 10/22/2009 11:10:09 PM   
TMeeks


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Since there is no Biblical reference that specifically gives us guidance in this area, it's simply best to err on the side of caution and introduce Christ to our children and grandchildren from their earliest days.

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RE: Age Of Accountability... - 10/23/2009 6:24:04 AM   
DaveW


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quote:

Once our infants have been baptized, consecrated to God using the means He ordains and provides, our job is to raise them up in the light of the grace given them, to carry the baton for their leg of the relay race of life.
The Mosaic covenant was a national covenant that was entered into by physical birth. the New Covenant has to be entered into by choice. Rom 11 talks about the wild olive branches being cut from their natural tree (where we were naturally born) and grafted into the cultivated tree (the redeemed community). IOW no one is part of the redeemed community, the body of Christ, or born again until they make the choice for that to happen.

There are other threads where infant baptism is discussed so I do not want to get into that here. Suffice it to say that anyone of any age is not an elgible candidate for baptism until they have repented and believed the gospel.

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RE: Age Of Accountability... - 10/23/2009 7:51:47 AM   
makarizo


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the term "bar mitzvah" , that is the Jewish coming of age, right....... I will google it later, but does that come from the bible? and isn't the same as the age of accountability?

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RE: Age Of Accountability... - 10/23/2009 9:08:04 AM   
RJR_fan

 

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quote:

The Mosaic covenant was a national covenant that was entered into by physical birth.

Sorry, this not the whole truth, as Moses learned the hard way when when the Lord met him to kill him on his way to Egypt. For some reason, Moses had withheld covenant membership from his son. Not wise.

< Message edited by RJR_fan -- 10/23/2009 1:25:30 PM >


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RE: Age Of Accountability... - 10/23/2009 2:42:40 PM   
AboundinginHisGrace


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Here is John MacArthur's answer to that question, which I tend to agree with.

What is the Scriptural basis for the "Age of Accountability" in regards to children's salvation?

Answer

I think the best way to answer that is to say this: There is no "Age of Accountability" identified in Scripture, as such. There is nothing in the Bible that says, "Here is the 'age' and from here on you are responsible!" I think the reason for that is because children mature at different paces. That would be true from culture to culture, and from age to age in history. So the Lord in His wisdom, didn't identify a specific moment. God knows when that soul is accountable. God knows when real rejection has taken place; when the love of sin exists in the heart. When enmity with God is conscience and willful. God alones knows when that takes place.

Also, it is important to say this: There is no indication, anywhere in Scripture, of the salvation of a child. There is no illustration of it. Jesus never had an encounter with a child and lead him to faith. He encounter a lot of people; preached to a lot of crowds, and a lot of people believed, but there is never any indication about a child believing. So consequently, we have to assume, then, that a saving commitment to Jesus Christ comes only after a child has reached the conscience reality of rejection, and the conscience awareness of iniquity. As to when that is, as I say, it varies from child to child.

The Jews, as you well remember, had identified about the age of twelve, and that's, you remember, when Jesus was taken by His parents to Jerusalem for the Passover and the Feast, and there He was in the temple questioning the doctors. I think you have a good illustration there; if Scripture says anything, it sets that one illustration, and Jesus was asking the kinds of questions that were actually profound questions to the doctors. We can assume then that was the age at which those kinds of questions begin to be personal. So I have always felt that somewhere around that period of time, the transition from childhood to adulthood takes place. It's probably not totally disassociated from puberty, where there is a consciousness of one's own impulses, feelings, drives, desires, and therefore sinful attitudes and passions, and whatever else that starts to emerge.

Now, as to how you deal with that--I was just talking to a parent about that the other day--I believe that it is absolutely essential, all the way along with the child, that every time they desire to make a commitment to Jesus Christ, at whatever age they're at, you encourage them to do that. Because you don't know, we can't know, when that is a saving commitment. I mean, if I go into a class over here of five or six-year-olds or seven or eight-year-olds, and tell them the story of Jesus, and ask how many want to ask Jesus into their heart, they will all say we do, because the story of Jesus is compelling, because that's what you want from them, and if they love you and you are their mom and dad, then obviously that's what's going to happen. So, when a child, say at the age of six or seven, or whatever it might be, says, "I want to invite Christ into my life," then you need to encourage them to do that. Everyone of those, I see as a step towards God. At what point that becomes saving faith--God knows--I don't know.

But, I also believe, that up until that point of real saving faith, God in His mercy, would save that child, should that child die. I have been doing some study on that very issue, because when I was at a conference recently, and that question was asked of a panel, of very astute theologians--no one gave an adequate answer. And I thought, "How can we have theologians who don't know the answer to that question," "What about the children before the age of accountability, when they die, do they go to heaven?" I think the answer is "yes," and I think it is a strong "YES," based upon the confidence of David who said, when his little baby died, "He cannot come to me, but I shall go to him." And David knew where he was going; David knew where he was going to heaven--he knew that. There wasn't any question in his mind about that, and when he said, "I shall go to him," in those words was the anticipation, and the hope and the joy of reunion. Now, some people have said, "Well, all he meant was, 'I am going to be buried next to him.'" There wouldn't be any reason to say, "He can't come to me, but, Oh I'm so glad I am going to be buried next to him!" There would be no joy in that; that wouldn't satisfy anything. So I think at that point, he was expressing the confidence that he was going to heaven, he knew that, and that's exactly where he would find his son, who had died before the age of accountability.

Another interesting thing that occurs numerous times in the Old Testament, is that children are referred to, and those children who die, as well, are referred to as "innocent," and the Hebrew word that is used for "innocent" is used numerous times in the Old Testament, refer to "not being guilty"--literally, "being taken to court and found 'not guilty.'" In fact, you remember, that it refers to the babies that were passed through the fire to Moloch [false god] as the "innocents", so I believe that God, prior to the "Age of Accountability" treats them as "innocent." It doesn't mean that they are no fallen; doesn't mean that they are not sinful--it does mean that God mercifully treats them as "innocent" in spite of that, and He has to exercise grace to do that, just as He exercises grace to save those who believe.

But, that "Age of Accountability" is not clearly identified. I just think it's up to parents; every time a child wants to respond and open the heart to Christ--you need to encourage that, all the way along, until they come to that point where it is genuine, and the Lord knows that, and you may not know that.

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Post #: 11
RE: Age Of Accountability... - 10/24/2009 4:45:08 PM   
ThursdaysChild


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Unfortunately some people wrongly believe that anyone can choose to follow Christ. No one is able to choose for him/herself. We're sinful creatures and incapable of choosing good for ourselves.

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RE: Age Of Accountability... - 10/26/2009 2:33:17 AM   
WanderingLamb


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ThursdaysChild

Unfortunately some people wrongly believe that anyone can choose to follow Christ. No one is able to choose for him/herself. We're sinful creatures and incapable of choosing good for ourselves.


That's right - thanks for pointing that out, Thursdays child!
John 15:16 You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you to go and bear fruit—fruit that will last. Then the Father will give you whatever you ask in my name.
Romans 8:28 And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose. 29For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. 30And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.
John 6:44 “No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day


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I'm being brainwashed.
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Post #: 13
RE: Age Of Accountability... - 10/26/2009 2:35:44 AM   
WanderingLamb


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quote:

ORIGINAL: AboundinginHisGrace

Here is John MacArthur's answer to that question, which I tend to agree with.

What is the Scriptural basis for the "Age of Accountability" in regards to children's salvation?

Answer

I think the best way to answer that is to say this: There is no "Age of Accountability" identified in Scripture, as such. There is nothing in the Bible that says, "Here is the 'age' and from here on you are responsible!" I think the reason for that is because children mature at different paces. That would be true from culture to culture, and from age to age in history. So the Lord in His wisdom, didn't identify a specific moment. God knows when that soul is accountable. God knows when real rejection has taken place; when the love of sin exists in the heart. When enmity with God is conscience and willful. God alones knows when that takes place.

Also, it is important to say this: There is no indication, anywhere in Scripture, of the salvation of a child. There is no illustration of it. Jesus never had an encounter with a child and lead him to faith. He encounter a lot of people; preached to a lot of crowds, and a lot of people believed, but there is never any indication about a child believing. So consequently, we have to assume, then, that a saving commitment to Jesus Christ comes only after a child has reached the conscience reality of rejection, and the conscience awareness of iniquity. As to when that is, as I say, it varies from child to child.

The Jews, as you well remember, had identified about the age of twelve, and that's, you remember, when Jesus was taken by His parents to Jerusalem for the Passover and the Feast, and there He was in the temple questioning the doctors. I think you have a good illustration there; if Scripture says anything, it sets that one illustration, and Jesus was asking the kinds of questions that were actually profound questions to the doctors. We can assume then that was the age at which those kinds of questions begin to be personal. So I have always felt that somewhere around that period of time, the transition from childhood to adulthood takes place. It's probably not totally disassociated from puberty, where there is a consciousness of one's own impulses, feelings, drives, desires, and therefore sinful attitudes and passions, and whatever else that starts to emerge.

Now, as to how you deal with that--I was just talking to a parent about that the other day--I believe that it is absolutely essential, all the way along with the child, that every time they desire to make a commitment to Jesus Christ, at whatever age they're at, you encourage them to do that. Because you don't know, we can't know, when that is a saving commitment. I mean, if I go into a class over here of five or six-year-olds or seven or eight-year-olds, and tell them the story of Jesus, and ask how many want to ask Jesus into their heart, they will all say we do, because the story of Jesus is compelling, because that's what you want from them, and if they love you and you are their mom and dad, then obviously that's what's going to happen. So, when a child, say at the age of six or seven, or whatever it might be, says, "I want to invite Christ into my life," then you need to encourage them to do that. Everyone of those, I see as a step towards God. At what point that becomes saving faith--God knows--I don't know.

But, I also believe, that up until that point of real saving faith, God in His mercy, would save that child, should that child die. I have been doing some study on that very issue, because when I was at a conference recently, and that question was asked of a panel, of very astute theologians--no one gave an adequate answer. And I thought, "How can we have theologians who don't know the answer to that question," "What about the children before the age of accountability, when they die, do they go to heaven?" I think the answer is "yes," and I think it is a strong "YES," based upon the confidence of David who said, when his little baby died, "He cannot come to me, but I shall go to him." And David knew where he was going; David knew where he was going to heaven--he knew that. There wasn't any question in his mind about that, and when he said, "I shall go to him," in those words was the anticipation, and the hope and the joy of reunion. Now, some people have said, "Well, all he meant was, 'I am going to be buried next to him.'" There wouldn't be any reason to say, "He can't come to me, but, Oh I'm so glad I am going to be buried next to him!" There would be no joy in that; that wouldn't satisfy anything. So I think at that point, he was expressing the confidence that he was going to heaven, he knew that, and that's exactly where he would find his son, who had died before the age of accountability.

Another interesting thing that occurs numerous times in the Old Testament, is that children are referred to, and those children who die, as well, are referred to as "innocent," and the Hebrew word that is used for "innocent" is used numerous times in the Old Testament, refer to "not being guilty"--literally, "being taken to court and found 'not guilty.'" In fact, you remember, that it refers to the babies that were passed through the fire to Moloch [false god] as the "innocents", so I believe that God, prior to the "Age of Accountability" treats them as "innocent." It doesn't mean that they are no fallen; doesn't mean that they are not sinful--it does mean that God mercifully treats them as "innocent" in spite of that, and He has to exercise grace to do that, just as He exercises grace to save those who believe.

But, that "Age of Accountability" is not clearly identified. I just think it's up to parents; every time a child wants to respond and open the heart to Christ--you need to encourage that, all the way along, until they come to that point where it is genuine, and the Lord knows that, and you may not know that.


Kind of makes me wish no one ever grew up - then there would be no one "going to hell".

_____________________________

John 14:27 Peace I leave with you; my peace I give you. I do not give to you as the world gives. Do not let your hearts be troubled and do not be afraid.
I'm being brainwashed.
Romans 12:2
Ephesians 5:26
Post #: 14
RE: Age Of Accountability... - 10/26/2009 3:12:42 AM   
RJR_fan

 

Posts: 1068
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From: RTP, in sunny NC USA
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quote:

Kind of makes me wish no one ever grew up - then there would be no one "going to hell".


Ah, yes. when "Choice" is god, then our theology allows for alternate means of salvation. What an excuse for unrestricted abortion on demand! After all, those before the "age of accountability" can be saved by their "innocence."

OTOH, the thought that your children may very well follow you wherever you go has powerful evangelistic value.

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Post #: 15
RE: Age Of Accountability... - 10/26/2009 7:35:27 AM   
greatdivide46


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quote:

ORIGINAL: WanderingLamb

Kind of makes me wish no one ever grew up - then there would be no one "going to hell".

That's exactly right!! But the fact is we do grow up. But those who do die in infancy are with God -- not the devil.

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Post #: 16
RE: Age Of Accountability... - 10/26/2009 12:11:03 PM   
DaveW


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quote:

ORIGINAL: makarizo

the term "bar mitzvah" , that is the Jewish coming of age, right
Right.
quote:

I will google it later, but does that come from the bible?
No.
quote:

and isn't the same as the age of accountability?
Yes.

_____________________________

Avatar is my son Caleb and Leah on their wedding 12/20/09
We are now empty nesters.......
====================================
Our CD is now available here:
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Post #: 17
RE: Age Of Accountability... - 10/26/2009 12:13:54 PM   
DaveW


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ThursdaysChild

Unfortunately some people wrongly believe that anyone can choose to follow Christ. No one is able to choose for him/herself. We're sinful creatures and incapable of choosing good for ourselves.
That is a disputed belief and please take it to the Calvinism thread.

_____________________________

Avatar is my son Caleb and Leah on their wedding 12/20/09
We are now empty nesters.......
====================================
Our CD is now available here:
http://cdbaby.com/cd/dswaggoner
Post #: 18
RE: Age Of Accountability... - 10/28/2009 3:10:32 AM   
WanderingLamb


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From: Western WA, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: RJR_fan

Ah, yes. when "Choice" is god, then our theology allows for alternate means of salvation. .


I know I'm running the risk of getting too off-topic, but can you please just explain this statement a little better? I didn't quite understand it.

Thanks

_____________________________

John 14:27 Peace I leave with you; my peace I give you. I do not give to you as the world gives. Do not let your hearts be troubled and do not be afraid.
I'm being brainwashed.
Romans 12:2
Ephesians 5:26
Post #: 19
RE: Age Of Accountability... - 10/28/2009 4:26:28 AM   
RJR_fan

 

Posts: 1068
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quote:

I know I'm running the risk of getting too off-topic, but can you please just explain this statement a little better? I didn't quite understand it.


how much theology is actually autobiography?

I was baptized, catechetized, and raised in the Roman Catholic faith.

I was born-again at age 20, and felt that God wanted me to re-invent the wheel.

A decade later, I re-integrated my brain with my faith, thanks to several thoughtful Calvinist scholars and pastors. Which means, since God is the source and agent of salvation, Who mediates His grace through covenants that transcend time, space, and generations, the "age of accountability" issue doesn't arise!

Or, as the Book of Job teaches, some questions have no answer other than God's character. Is He good? Yes. Can He be trusted? Yes. So let's entrust our enigmas to Him.

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