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Hank Hanegraaf of The Christian Research Institute. - 3/25/2008 4:57:41 PM
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cybrjewls
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I would like to discuss the pros and cons of this type of ministry. I do not see it written in the Gospels that false doctrine finders is a ministry that builds up the body, necessarily, by pointing out everyone else's supposed faults and errors in Doctrine. Although there are many functions in the body of Christ which are not written.
http://www.equip.org/
< Message edited by prophetica -- 3/25/2008 6:51:09 PM >
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RE: Hank Hanegraaf of The Christian Research Institute. - 3/25/2008 5:46:05 PM
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earthless
Posts: 4966
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You don't see it? The context and command from God to test all things in light of Scripture is found in numerous places. We hear all the time from people who fit those molds I described as saying, "we are to just love one another and be united in faith, don't cause division!!" But shouldn't we therefore, regard as divisive those people who teach things which are clearly unbiblical?
I can tell you firsthand that it is no joy to be labeled a "heresy-hunter." Yet, as the Apostle Paul instructed Timothy, we are to zealously guard the purity of the message God has entrusted to us, and for good reason (1 Timothy 1:18-19; 6:20; 2 Timothy 4:2-5).
We read in such passages as Acts chapter 20, and 2 Peter chapter 2, that false teachers will arise, bringing with them destructive heresies, distorting the truth and destroying the faith of some. Moreover, friend, it is clear that these teachers will come not only from outside the church, but also from within the body of Christ as well.
It is therefore imperative that we test all things by Scripture (1 Thessolanians 5:21).
It was in this spirit that the Bereans examined the words of the Apostle Paul, for which they were reckoned as noble in character (Acts 17:11). Indeed, not only can the Bible be used for preaching, teaching and encouragement, but it is equally valuable for correcting and rebuking (2 Timothy 4:2).
As a matter of fact, we as Christians are held accountable for proclaiming the whole will of God, warning others of false teachings. (Acts 20:26-28; Ezekiel 33:7-0; 34:1-10)
This is not merely a suggestion, it is, in fact, a divine mandate. Of course if heresies are coming from teachers within the church, we ought to try and approach them first with our concerns.
Should that fail to resolve the problem, we are told in Matthew 18 to expose their errors to the church; and if need be, divulge their names. (1 Timothy 1:20; 2 Timothy 2:17-18; 4:14-15; 3 John 9-10).
We would, therefore, do well to heed Scripture's explicit warning to be on guard for false teachings (Romans 16:17-18; 1 Timothy 1:3-4; 4:16; 2 Timothy 1:13-14; Titus 1:9; 2:1), and to point them out to brothers and sisters in Christ (2 Timothy 4:6).
As for CRI - it's the most popular of apologetic question & answer radio broadcasts, but there are some others which are a lot more meatier. The Bible Answer Man is more for those in the beginning levels of apologetics, it serves its purpose.
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Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: Hank Hanegraaf of The Christian Research Institute. - 3/25/2008 5:46:53 PM
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blue1914
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One thing I can say for certain is that one phrase that Hank often repeats on the Bible Answer Man program is very appropriate-"become so familiar with the truth that when a counterfeit looms on the horizon you will know it instantaneously".
If all who claimed the name of Christ took this approach to understanding the things of God, a ministry such as this would not only not be need to exist it would not be able to (why send valuable monetary resources to a ministry that has a redundant purpose when it could instead be spent building up the body).
That said, look around at our many different factions, etc. and look at their root-much more often than not, when we drill down to the base of them, we find the real motivation-man made pride instead of a true desire to KNOW the creator of all things, God, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the one who sent His only begotten son, Jesus Christ for the redemption of all sins. A TRUE knowledge of Jesus (which gives a true knowledge of the Father and the Holy Spirit) bears witness to the truth and rejects error. The problem that comes all too often is that we have created many "filters" through which we try to come up with a knowlege or understanding of Jesus.
To me, that is why this ministry (and many other ministries such as the ones he criticizes) exist today.
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RE: Hank Hanegraaf of The Christian Research Institute. - 3/25/2008 5:57:38 PM
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themoodyexperience
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If more people would test their doctrine against scripture in the first place instead of using 'Judge not lest ye be judged' as a shield to do anything they want to, a ministry like his wouldn't be necessary....and it is necessary.
_____________________________
If you question what I'm teaching you
You rebel against the Father too.
- Steve Taylor from "I Manipulate"
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RE: Hank Hanegraaf of The Christian Research Institute. - 3/25/2008 6:05:06 PM
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earthless
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quote:
ORIGINAL: themoodyexperience
If more people would test their doctrine against scripture in the first place instead of using 'Judge not lest ye be judged' as a shield to do anything they want to, a ministry like his wouldn't be necessary....and it is necessary.
Amen, brother. Ministries like that are SORELY needed and it is so sad to see that more churches do not have an apologetics approach - either in classes, from the pulpit, or the best approach - both.
So many churches lack in equipping (1 Peter 3:15) their members that it's no wonder so many self-professing believers do not even know why they believe what they claim to believe.
And it's no wonder so many get so easily caught up with any teaching that comes across on the horizon.
It's like Jesus' parable about building your house on sand.....
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RE: Hank Hanegraaf of The Christian Research Institute. - 3/25/2008 6:11:40 PM
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A_crucified_man
Posts: 164
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Isn't Hank Hanegraaff a Preterist?
I believe in Pre-Millennial Dispensationalism vs. Preterism which is what Hank proclaims in his book, "Apocalypse Code". I've read through what he believes on his website and it has stunned me that he is correct on so many aspects of Christianity but supports this perverted view of the Book of Revelation.
_____________________________
Derek
John 3:30 "He must increase, but I must decrease."
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RE: Hank Hanegraaf of The Christian Research Institute. - 3/25/2008 6:16:55 PM
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GrahamCracker
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quote:
ORIGINAL: A_crucified_man
Isn't Hank Hanegraaff a Preterist?
I believe in Pre-Millennial Dispensationalism vs. Preterism which is what Hank proclaims in his book, "Apocalypse Code". I've read through what he believes on his website and it has stunned me that he is correct on so many aspects of Christianity but supports this perverted view of the Book of Revelation.
First of all, there is Full-Preterism and Partial Preterism. I don't know how familiar you are with Partial Preterism, but it's not that big of a deal.
_____________________________
Larry
Granddaughter, Skyler Lynn was born July 1, 2008.
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RE: Hank Hanegraaf of The Christian Research Institute. - 3/25/2008 6:19:43 PM
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A_crucified_man
Posts: 164
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quote:
ORIGINAL: GrahamCracker
quote:
ORIGINAL: A_crucified_man
Isn't Hank Hanegraaff a Preterist?
I believe in Pre-Millennial Dispensationalism vs. Preterism which is what Hank proclaims in his book, "Apocalypse Code". I've read through what he believes on his website and it has stunned me that he is correct on so many aspects of Christianity but supports this perverted view of the Book of Revelation.
First of all, there is Full-Preterism and Partial Preterism. I don't know how familiar you are with Partial Preterism, but it's not that big of a deal.
Sorry, but either one is false and therefore, a big deal.
_____________________________
Derek
John 3:30 "He must increase, but I must decrease."
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RE: Hank Hanegraaf of The Christian Research Institute. - 3/25/2008 6:20:26 PM
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earthless
Posts: 4966
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He is a Partial-Preterist. So no he does not adhere to the 'Left Behind' Tim LaHaye view of eschatology, but that view is new and has only been around for a few in relations to the spans of Christiantendom.
Here are a few explanations of what his end-times views are and are not - if you only read one, read the first one:
Explanation of end-times stance
Apocaplyse Code vs. Left Behind
Calling Tim LaHaye's stance racist?
Read the first one and see how that stance is what most Christians have ascribed to for centuries and how partial is indeed not heretical and is a secondary issue, not an issue for us to divide over.
My church is full of Partial-Preterists and Left Behinders..
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RE: Hank Hanegraaf of The Christian Research Institute. - 3/25/2008 6:25:02 PM
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A_crucified_man
Posts: 164
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quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
He is a Partial-Preterist. So no he does not adhere to the 'Left Behind' Tim LaHaye view of eschatology, but that view is new and has only been around for a few in relations to the spans of Christiantendom.
Here are a few explanations of what his end-times views are and are not - if you only read one, read the first one:
Explanation of end-times stance
Apocaplyse Code vs. Left Behind
Calling Tim LaHaye's stance racist?
Read the first one and see how that stance is what most Christians have ascribed to for centuries and how partial is indeed not heretical and is a secondary issue, not an issue for us to divide over.
My church is full of Partial-Preterists and Left Behinders..
That letter doesn't really explain anything, to be honest, earthless. I will have to research their dispute more to have a better understanding why well-known theologist's are in disagreement with Hank's viewpoint. I'm also not necessarily a "Left Behinder" as I only read 1/2 of the first book in the series and lost interest - fiction just doesn't appeal to me.
_____________________________
Derek
John 3:30 "He must increase, but I must decrease."
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RE: Hank Hanegraaf of The Christian Research Institute. - 3/25/2008 6:29:02 PM
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earthless
Posts: 4966
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quote:
ORIGINAL: A_crucified_man
quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
He is a Partial-Preterist. So no he does not adhere to the 'Left Behind' Tim LaHaye view of eschatology, but that view is new and has only been around for a few in relations to the spans of Christiantendom.
Here are a few explanations of what his end-times views are and are not - if you only read one, read the first one:
Explanation of end-times stance
Apocaplyse Code vs. Left Behind
Calling Tim LaHaye's stance racist?
Read the first one and see how that stance is what most Christians have ascribed to for centuries and how partial is indeed not heretical and is a secondary issue, not an issue for us to divide over.
My church is full of Partial-Preterists and Left Behinders..
That letter doesn't really explain anything, to be honest, earthless. I will have to research their dispute more to have a better understanding why well-known theologist's are in disagreement with Hank's viewpoint.
Really? It explains a lot, especially what partial-preterism is and is not. Did you read the first link?
Preterism is indeed abhorrent. Partial-Preterism is not and Dispensationalism is also not, but do keep in mind Dispensationalism did not arise until the 1800's. Yet, many believers to day believe it is something that has always been around.
Regardless, both are not abhorrent as to where it becomes a need for division.
"In essentials unity, in non-essentials liberty, in all things charity.....
_____________________________
Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: Hank Hanegraaf of The Christian Research Institute. - 3/25/2008 6:30:56 PM
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bride48
Posts: 4751
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Near Boston
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quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
You don't see it? The context and command from God to test all things in light of Scripture is found in numerous places. We hear all the time from people who fit those molds I described as saying, "we are to just love one another and be united in faith, don't cause division!!" But shouldn't we therefore, regard as divisive those people who teach things which are clearly unbiblical?
I can tell you firsthand that it is no joy to be labeled a "heresy-hunter." Yet, as the Apostle Paul instructed Timothy, we are to zealously guard the purity of the message God has entrusted to us, and for good reason (1 Timothy 1:18-19; 6:20; 2 Timothy 4:2-5).
We read in such passages as Acts chapter 20, and 2 Peter chapter 2, that false teachers will arise, bringing with them destructive heresies, distorting the truth and destroying the faith of some. Moreover, friend, it is clear that these teachers will come not only from outside the church, but also from within the body of Christ as well.
It is therefore imperative that we test all things by Scripture (1 Thessolanians 5:21).
It was in this spirit that the Bereans examined the words of the Apostle Paul, for which they were reckoned as noble in character (Acts 17:11). Indeed, not only can the Bible be used for preaching, teaching and encouragement, but it is equally valuable for correcting and rebuking (2 Timothy 4:2).
As a matter of fact, we as Christians are held accountable for proclaiming the whole will of God, warning others of false teachings. (Acts 20:26-28; Ezekiel 33:7-0; 34:1-10)
This is not merely a suggestion, it is, in fact, a divine mandate. Of course if heresies are coming from teachers within the church, we ought to try and approach them first with our concerns.
Should that fail to resolve the problem, we are told in Matthew 18 to expose their errors to the church; and if need be, divulge their names. (1 Timothy 1:20; 2 Timothy 2:17-18; 4:14-15; 3 John 9-10).
We would, therefore, do well to heed Scripture's explicit warning to be on guard for false teachings (Romans 16:17-18; 1 Timothy 1:3-4; 4:16; 2 Timothy 1:13-14; Titus 1:9; 2:1), and to point them out to brothers and sisters in Christ (2 Timothy 4:6).
As for CRI - it's the most popular of apologetic question & answer radio broadcasts, but there are some others which are a lot more meatier. The Bible Answer Man is more for those in the beginning levels of apologetics, it serves its purpose.
There's so much pressure to avoid apologetics, sadly. I have been told, even by pastors, not to be a "heresy hunter." And, I am ashamed to say I've let them discourage me. So I appreciate your post, Earthless. Maybe I'll start going to apologetics websites again...
_____________________________
Joyfully,
DebbieLynne
See my photographic evidence that my wheelchair was fixed at Joyfully Christian Lady's Museum
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RE: Hank Hanegraaf of The Christian Research Institute. - 3/25/2008 6:52:13 PM
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cybrjewls
Posts: 1415
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Greetings, we are mostly to test our Doctrinal beliefs against The Scripture rather than Judging other people because Paul said for at whatever point you judge others you are condemning yourself for you do those very things. One does not want to act like the cults do in excluding everyone that does not have the same Church; yet we must adhere closely to Doctrine as Paul admonished Timothy to do.
I, for one, am glad that someone has taken the task of expounding upon the Sound apologetical precepts that are necessary for one to believe in order to inherit eternal life. For the Scriptures are able to make one wise for salvation in Christ Jesus.
quote:
ORIGINAL: themoodyexperience
If more people would test their doctrine against scripture in the first place instead of using 'Judge not lest ye be judged' as a shield to do anything they want to, a ministry like his wouldn't be necessary....and it is necessary.
< Message edited by prophetica -- 3/25/2008 6:58:38 PM >
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RE: Hank Hanegraaf of The Christian Research Institute. - 3/25/2008 6:57:21 PM
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earthless
Posts: 4966
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Where has anyone here that does test things in light of Scripture ever judged a person's heart?
You can judge another person's teachings and that does not mean you're judging their heart/salvation status.
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Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: Hank Hanegraaf of The Christian Research Institute. - 3/25/2008 7:24:09 PM
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mushhead
Posts: 350
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quote:
He is a Partial-Preterist. So no he does not adhere to the 'Left Behind' Tim LaHaye view of eschatology, but that view is new and has only been around for a few in relations to the spans of Christiantendom.
earthless,
I haven’t read the “Apocalypse Code” but I think Hank is a full blown, fully committed, full preterist. Recently he talked about his views on two consecutive episodes of his radio show. I have the worst memory, but I am certain I remember him saying that the meaning of Jesus’ teachings in Matthew 24, as well as the meaning of the book of Revelation is unambiguous and beyond misunderstanding. He took the full preterist interpretation on virtually every detail of both sections of Scripture…even taking the position that the number of the beast (666) represents the name “Nero” (the 666=Nero theory is accepted by some, but it is such a stretch that most serious scholars reject it). He went so far as to suggest that nothing Jesus said in Matthew 24 had to do with end times events. In spite of my bad memory, I remember these episodes because he angered me. So much of what Hank said required ignoring the clear meaning of many passages, yet Hank was certain that his interpretation was absolutely correct, and he implied that any other interpretation was either foolishness or the result of bad or dishonest hermeneutics.
I believe we need to be a bit less dogmatic about many of the details of end times events - which IMHO makes Hank’s certainty a demonstration of bad hermeneutics.
< Message edited by mushhead -- 3/25/2008 7:30:27 PM >
_____________________________
MUSHHEAD
Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and then turn and tear you to pieces. Matt. 7:6
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RE: Hank Hanegraaf of The Christian Research Institute. - 3/25/2008 7:41:44 PM
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cybrjewls
Posts: 1415
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Hello! Apparently, the bible answer man cannot answer to the authority of Scriptural precepts found in the prophesies of Jesus Christ regarding end time events. This is a Sound Doctrinal issue and this must be taken into account, then, for he does not suppose that it is sound instruction and careful warning for the believers to take notice of in order to prepare them for the trials of the last 7 years before Christ's earthly Reign at Jerusalem for a thousand years.
One must teach the Good News that those who endure those trials will be declared with priesthood and they will Reign with Christ for one thousand years in the Millennium.
quote:
ORIGINAL: mushhead
quote:
He is a Partial-Preterist. So no he does not adhere to the 'Left Behind' Tim LaHaye view of eschatology, but that view is new and has only been around for a few in relations to the spans of Christiantendom.
earthless,
I haven’t read the “Apocalypse Code” but I think Hank is a full blown, fully committed, full preterist. Recently he talked about his views on two consecutive episodes of his radio show. I have the worst memory, but I am certain I remember him saying that the meaning of Jesus’ teachings in Matthew 24, as well as the meaning of the book of Revelation is unambiguous and beyond misunderstanding. He took the full preterist interpretation on virtually every detail of both sections of Scripture…even taking the position that the number of the beast (666) represents the name “Nero” (the 666=Nero theory is accepted by some, but it is such a stretch that most serious scholars reject it). He went so far as to suggest that nothing Jesus said in Matthew 24 had to do with end times events. In spite of my bad memory, I remember these episodes because he angered me. So much of what Hank said required ignoring the clear meaning of many passages, yet Hank was certain that his interpretation was absolutely correct, and he implied that any other interpretation was either foolishness or the result of bad or dishonest hermeneutics.
I believe we need to be a bit less dogmatic about many of the details of end times events - which IMHO makes Hank’s certainty a demonstration of bad hermeneutics.
< Message edited by prophetica -- 3/25/2008 7:58:20 PM >
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RE: Hank Hanegraaf of The Christian Research Institute. - 3/25/2008 7:53:10 PM
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earthless
Posts: 4966
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: where bbq pigeons roast....
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: prophetica
One must teach the Good News that those who endure those trials will be rewarded with priesthood and they will Reign with Christ for one thousand years in the Millennium.
OH BOY... *can of worms* alert.
The irony...
_____________________________
Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: Hank Hanegraaf of The Christian Research Institute. - 3/25/2008 7:55:07 PM
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cybrjewls
Posts: 1415
Status: offline
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Greetings! Jesus said: I will give to each according to what they have done. We are saved by Grace through faith in Christ Jesus unto good fruits and works that will last when tested that it may be shown that what was done has been done through God. Therefore, it is written faith without works is dead. For it is a Grace to do anything in Jesus Christ for apart from Me you can do nothing is written.
The Apostasy Gospel that some are teaching these days is sloppy grace. Grace would not be Grace to do nothing. For everything we do, we do as unto The Lord. For not an iota will, by any means, drop out of the law until all these things are fulfilled is written. We are not under law in Christ for as many as are led by The Spirit of Grace.
quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
quote:
ORIGINAL: prophetica
One must teach the Good News that those who endure those trials will be rewarded with priesthood and they will Reign with Christ for one thousand years in the Millennium.
OH BOY... *can of worms* alert.
The irony...
< Message edited by prophetica -- 3/25/2008 8:07:01 PM >
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RE: Hank Hanegraaf of The Christian Research Institute. - 3/25/2008 8:05:30 PM
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A_crucified_man
Posts: 164
Joined: 12/11/2007
From: Charleston, WV
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: mushhead
quote:
He is a Partial-Preterist. So no he does not adhere to the 'Left Behind' Tim LaHaye view of eschatology, but that view is new and has only been around for a few in relations to the spans of Christiantendom.
earthless,
I haven’t read the “Apocalypse Code” but I think Hank is a full blown, fully committed, full preterist. Recently he talked about his views on two consecutive episodes of his radio show. I have the worst memory, but I am certain I remember him saying that the meaning of Jesus’ teachings in Matthew 24, as well as the meaning of the book of Revelation is unambiguous and beyond misunderstanding. He took the full preterist interpretation on virtually every detail of both sections of Scripture…even taking the position that the number of the beast (666) represents the name “Nero” (the 666=Nero theory is accepted by some, but it is such a stretch that most serious scholars reject it). He went so far as to suggest that nothing Jesus said in Matthew 24 had to do with end times events. In spite of my bad memory, I remember these episodes because he angered me. So much of what Hank said required ignoring the clear meaning of many passages, yet Hank was certain that his interpretation was absolutely correct, and he implied that any other interpretation was either foolishness or the result of bad or dishonest hermeneutics.
I believe we need to be a bit less dogmatic about many of the details of end times events - which IMHO makes Hank’s certainty a demonstration of bad hermeneutics.
That's exactly the impression I've gotten from the comments made by intelligent and educated theologians who refute preterism in all of its shades.
I personally believe it is dangerous to say that one shade is less dangerous than another - what exactly does a little leaven do again?
_____________________________
Derek
John 3:30 "He must increase, but I must decrease."
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RE: Hank Hanegraaf of The Christian Research Institute. - 3/25/2008 8:09:17 PM
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GrahamCracker
Posts: 2134
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Dallas, TX
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quote:
ORIGINAL: A_crucified_man
quote:
ORIGINAL: GrahamCracker
quote:
ORIGINAL: A_crucified_man
Isn't Hank Hanegraaff a Preterist?
I believe in Pre-Millennial Dispensationalism vs. Preterism which is what Hank proclaims in his book, "Apocalypse Code". I've read through what he believes on his website and it has stunned me that he is correct on so many aspects of Christianity but supports this perverted view of the Book of Revelation.
First of all, there is Full-Preterism and Partial Preterism. I don't know how familiar you are with Partial Preterism, but it's not that big of a deal.
Sorry, but either one is false and therefore, a big deal.
How do you know? Eschatology is not an exact science. Dispensationalism has made a number of predictions "based on scripture." Many of them failed.
Earthless said:
quote:
Read the first one and see how that stance is what most Christians have ascribed to for centuries and how partial is indeed not heretical and is a secondary issue, not an issue for us to divide over.
My church is full of Partial-Preterists and Left Behinders..
Well said!!!!
< Message edited by GrahamCracker -- 3/25/2008 8:16:23 PM >
_____________________________
Larry
Granddaughter, Skyler Lynn was born July 1, 2008.
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RE: Hank Hanegraaf of The Christian Research Institute. - 3/25/2008 8:33:18 PM
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themoodyexperience
Posts: 130
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From: Tuscumbia, Alabama
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