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Leaders Have To Be Doing Something Wrong - 7/5/2009 3:13:20 AM
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cosmiceyes
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There's just no way, with all the millions of proclaimed Christians (or any religion for that matter), the world is getting worse by the second. Why can't all of the Christians and other good religious people come together protest the injustices of this world? I don't get it. Can anyone show me what large groups of religions are doing any major repairing of this messed up world?
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RE: Leaders Have To Be Doing Something Wrong - 7/5/2009 3:34:29 AM
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supernova1976
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Aw. First of all, I feel you - and totally understand what you mean. If I wasn't relying solely on the words of Jesus Christ- the best leader of all, I would be getting lost too for sure. This is my take- most of the false prophets are already growing and people just love a good sermon or something to get them fired up for God especially if it makes them feel they are just the most important person in the world- Satan loves when people hear these feel good sermons and don't actually open their bibles to confirm it with scripture. The days are evil and it will only get worse until the return of Christ on earth. Don't get deceived.
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RE: Leaders Have To Be Doing Something Wrong - 7/5/2009 3:51:32 AM
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Not-Home-Yet
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There are plenty of Christians in various part of the world in minestry
Who are feeding the poor and digging well for clear water. They are preching the good news. There are plenty of Radio Christians station that are sending out the Word of God. There are so many of them that I could not even strat to name them all. All doing God's work in many different ways. and here are some places that you can go to on the net
http://www.oneplace.com/ministries/leading_the_way/ ..... http://www.khouse.org/6640/CM011-2/
But in Gods Word it tells us not to worry about these things because they are only the birth pains and that they have to happend. But that does not mean we as Christian must stop preching Gods Word and showing God's love with the hope that many may be saved and come take Jesus as thier Lord and Saviour.
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RE: Leaders Have To Be Doing Something Wrong - 7/5/2009 3:52:48 AM
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cosmiceyes
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yes. I'm aware of this. And this is one of the main reasons I came to find this site. I've lately come to feel as if somehow I'm the only person aware of all the wicked going on in and outside the church. People are so hurt and messed up, that they want to believe, including me, that there is a real spiritual leader that is really up to good. It's just getting so hopeless out here. And I pray to God that I don't get overcome by this evil world.
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RE: Leaders Have To Be Doing Something Wrong - 7/5/2009 3:59:44 AM
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Not-Home-Yet
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cosmiceyes
The best way is to stay in God's Word for when we stay in God's Word them we can put on the whole armor of God. Praying is another good way to stay close to God. I forgot got to say we must trust and leave things in Gods hands for we must remember that God is in control.
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RE: Leaders Have To Be Doing Something Wrong - 7/5/2009 4:00:47 AM
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supernova1976
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quote:
ORIGINAL: cosmiceyes
yes. I'm aware of this. And this is one of the main reasons I came to find this site. I've lately come to feel as if somehow I'm the only person aware of all the wicked going on in and outside the church.
PRAISE GOD FOR YOUR INSIGHT!:) Yes, you are correct - but your not alone, I feel this exact same way and it is pretty darn scary out there in the world right now isn't it?
People are so hurt and messed up, that they want to believe, including me, that there is a real spiritual leader that is really up to good. It's just getting so hopeless out here. And I pray to God that I don't get overcome by this evil world.
God Bless You. Hold onto Jesus and ask him for continual guidance and inisight. Always.
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RE: Leaders Have To Be Doing Something Wrong - 7/5/2009 4:14:23 AM
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TartanPaint
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Gen Ch 3 tells us why the world is in such a mess, and Jesus in the gospels tells us that it will get steadily worst until He returns. Our duty in the meantime is to obey His voice, and do His bidding no matter how bad it gets. Read Matt Ch 13
_____________________________
TartanPaint
Isa 40: 11
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RE: Leaders Have To Be Doing Something Wrong - 7/5/2009 8:02:47 AM
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DeliveredDarling
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2 Thessalonians 2:1-4,7-12
2Th 2:1 Now we request you, brethren, with regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him,
2Th 2:2 that you not be quickly shaken from your composure or be disturbed either by a spirit or a message or a letter as if from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come.
2Th 2:3 Let no one in any way deceive you, for {it will not come} unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,
2Th 2:4 who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God.
2Th 2:7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only he who now restrains {will do so} until he is taken out of the way.
2Th 2:8 Then that lawless one will be revealed whom the Lord will slay with the breath of His mouth and bring to an end by the appearance of His coming;
2Th 2:9 {that is,} the one whose coming is in accord with the activity of Satan, with all power and signs and false wonders,
2Th 2:10 and with all the deception of wickedness for those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth so as to be saved.
2Th 2:11 For this reason God will send upon them a deluding influence so that they will believe what is false,
2Th 2:12 in order that they all may be judged who did not believe the truth, but took pleasure in wickedness.
For you:
2Th 2:16 Now may our Lord Jesus Christ Himself and God our Father, who has loved us and given us eternal comfort and good hope by grace,
2Th 2:17 comfort and strengthen your hearts in every good work and word.
I believe that we are in the apostasy phase now! The behavior we presently see has been foretold to us to expect. We can get bent of shape or it (which I think the enemy uses as a distraction) or we can continue focusing on Jesus and doing His will. His will brings about peace no matter what we see day to day!
Note vs 11- a deluding influence will be sent upon them.
My personal opinion here is to rest in the Lord and His Word because He has told us this would be the way it is. Trust and be thankful he saved you from it!
Edited to add for Rusty Carr:
I don't in any way mean the idle rest of God in the excuse form 
I do however, mean the resting in the Lord because He has told us these things would come about. The trust and belief aspect.
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
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RE: Leaders Have To Be Doing Something Wrong - 7/5/2009 8:33:18 AM
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RustyCarr
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How about something on the positive side?
Leaders have to be doing something wrong? Yes, many or most of them have been missing the mark preaching unconvicting uninspiring baby's milk instead of meat.
But, look at the potential! A little correction might cause a great awakening! For decades the "leaders" in our individual Christian families have NOT been awakened to their God given role. They have not been inspired to love, LEAD, TEACH, provide for, and PROTECT their families. Fathers have not been united in protecting their children from the lies and filth found in government school curriculum. For decades upcoming generations have been decieved, distracted, confused, and assaulted by the lies coming from idiots like secular humanists, Darwinists, socialists, and hedonists.
So there it is. Our fathers allowed scripture and prayer to be removed from public education. We are now looking at the results 50 years later. Also, this has left our babies milk churches flailing around haphazardly without the ability to be the resppectable "salt and light" in our society.
Let this post be conviction to leaders who failed to teach and inspire fathers to love, LEAD, TEACH, provide for, and PROTECT their families united in God's rock of Truth with love for one another in the battle for the minds of their offspring.
We must wake up fathers, then a revival will follow.
Mal 4:6 He will turn the hearts of the fathers to their children, and the hearts of the children to their fathers; or else I will come and strike the land with a curse.
Ac 2:17 ‘In the last days, God says, I will pour out my Spirit on all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy, your young men will see visions, your old men will dream dreams.
Ac 2:18 Even on my servants, both men and women, I will pour out my Spirit in those days, and they will prophesy.'
If you love your children, you will teach them the Truth about love. God is love. 1John 4:8
Let's do it, and see how it turns out!
Rusty
_____________________________
It is better to obey God rather than men. The Truth, God's word, within is the lamp that guides our feet. -For the Lord gives wisdom, and from His mouth come knowledge and understanding. Prov. 2:6-
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RE: Leaders Have To Be Doing Something Wrong - 7/5/2009 9:01:11 AM
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rcjames
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quote:
ORIGINAL: cosmiceyes
There's just no way, with all the millions of proclaimed Christians (or any religion for that matter), the world is getting worse by the second. Why can't all of the Christians and other good religious people come together protest the injustices of this world? I don't get it. Can anyone show me what large groups of religions are doing any major repairing of this messed up world?
The New Testament teaches (as deliveredarlin pointed out) in many places that things will get worse before the end comes. Not better, but worse.
I know there is an element out there that teaches we can fix everyting, and even fix it to the point that God will not destroy the wonderful thing we have built. But that is fleshly arrogance at its very worst.
Since the world really seems to be going to hell in a hand basket; the verse for Christians to really hang onto is;
(Mar 13:13) And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Leaders Have To Be Doing Something Wrong - 7/5/2009 10:42:53 AM
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Szaftoo
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2 Chronicles 7:14 "If my people who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek My face, and turn from their wicked ways, than I will hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin and heal their land"
As believers we are called to intercede and minister to the world around us. We are called to see the needs of the world and fill them. I don't think we can be effective with a defeated attitude, we must expect change and work toward if. Of course it's bad and we can't change everything, but we must try.
There are many good things happening in the world and many groups of believers who are bringing change and revival.
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RE: Leaders Have To Be Doing Something Wrong - 7/5/2009 11:26:20 AM
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Focusing
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Oh, cosmiceyes, you are so not alone in how you feel. I spent an enormous amount of time on the phone with my best friend last night receiving encouragement on this very issue. There is so much evil in the world, even from other Christians.
I don't know that it's just the leadership doing something wrong. I think the world is simply full of lukewarm people ... so many desiring to follow after God and desiring at the same time not to offend those of the world. No one can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and wealth. (Matthew 6:24) We are afraid to stand up for what we believe in and end up getting trampled as a result. Cause and effect. Sowing and reaping.
So because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of My mouth. (Revelation 3:16) ... and so, when it starts getting a little too hot and I want to cool off, I need to remind myself that I don't want to be lukewarm. Can you picture being spit out of His mouth?? I so don't want that. And for me, therein lies the answer to my struggles.
_____________________________
. . . when the Son of Man comes, will He find faith on the earth?
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RE: Leaders Have To Be Doing Something Wrong - 7/5/2009 2:17:38 PM
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terryjohn
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They who see the need, need to do something. They are the leaders.
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RE: Leaders Have To Be Doing Something Wrong - 7/5/2009 3:05:46 PM
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cosmiceyes
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Thank you for all who replied. It really comforts me to know that there are people out here that don't seem to be "of this world." I don't know why all of a sudden now in my 20s, I have this awakening. But anyway, I know what I can see out here in this world, while people are walking around like zombies. I'm so frustrated, you can't even understand what I'm feeling. Something has got to change with the way things are in this world. Right now, I'm trying to finish getting my degree and maybe my true calling will come to me. But what I do know, no how my status change or whatever, I will not get so caught up, like many do, that I forget what's going on. I'm frustrated really because I know that people at the top controlling this world, wouldn't let me by unless I "sell out." Metaphorically, it's like they're demons at the top of the stairs with a key, locking the christians away. Why can't all the real spiritual good people come together and overthrow this madness? And to the people replying saying, this is what it says in the last days, etc., I understand and know this, but what are we supposed to just sit by and allow these injustices to go on, saying "well, this is what God says to happen"? Unless you're saying let's come together, and talk about what we can do. I came on this site for some kind of spiritual advice that's tangible in a way it could really direct me to aspects of what I could gain to quiet this frustration inside of me. So until you can do that for me, don't give me old sayings that I've already heard in bible study. I don't mean to come off like this people but I'm just woman who God has put a good amount of wisdom in my eyes to see that this world just isn't right.
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RE: Leaders Have To Be Doing Something Wrong - 7/5/2009 6:35:37 PM
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DeliveredDarling
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quote:
I'm so frustrated, you can't even understand what I'm feeling. Something has got to change with the way things are in this world. Right now, I'm trying to finish getting my degree and maybe my true calling will come to me. But what I do know, no how my status change or whatever, I will not get so caught up, like many do, that I forget what's going on. I'm frustrated really because I know that people at the top controlling this world, wouldn't let me by unless I "sell out."
Let me throw something at you to consider. Is this a distraction to you? If so, it's from the enemy. You already have a calling-that is to worship and honor God! The forewarning of the end of days is so that we do not get distracted and take our eyes off Him! The great deception is thinking we can change an already preordained outcome
(These are just my personal thoughts based on the study of the Word. I humble make the suggestion to look for yourself and not take my word for it.) 
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
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RE: Leaders Have To Be Doing Something Wrong - 7/5/2009 7:56:00 PM
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RustyCarr
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quote:
cosmiceyes wrote:
Why can't all the real spiritual good people come together and overthrow this madness?
I'm with you! Lets have a meeting!
quote:
And to the people replying saying, this is what it says in the last days, etc., I understand and know this, but what are we supposed to do, just sit by and allow these injustices to go on, saying "well, this is what God says to happen"?
This drives me nuts, too. Do we have to invite them?
Blessings,
Rusty
_____________________________
It is better to obey God rather than men. The Truth, God's word, within is the lamp that guides our feet. -For the Lord gives wisdom, and from His mouth come knowledge and understanding. Prov. 2:6-
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RE: Leaders Have To Be Doing Something Wrong - 7/5/2009 8:15:50 PM
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DeliveredDarling
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quote:
I'm with you! Lets have a meeting!
I'm going to make a very bold statement here....
I think this could be a very prideful state of heart. I enjoy reading many of the things you write and agree on a large portion of them. However, to think that we can pray for the world to change when God has specifically stated it would be this way is arrogant and wrong. WE cannot change what God has ordained! We are to prepare ourselves and teach others what the Word of God says. Most importantly, we are to tell others THE TRUTH- that is about Jesus Christ.
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
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RE: Leaders Have To Be Doing Something Wrong - 7/5/2009 9:34:44 PM
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SonInMe1
Posts: 1824
Joined: 4/16/2005
From: my mom by God
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quote:
missing the mark preaching unconvicting uninspiring baby's milk instead of meat.
If your pastor is preaching milk, its your fault for being there. Either talk to the man...or vote with your feet.
quote:
A little correction might cause a great awakening!
In other words a little correction...from you.
quote:
So there it is. Our fathers allowed scripture and prayer to be removed from public education.
An absolute legal falsehood. You really want some liberal secular teacher leading your kids in prayer or teaching them about Jesus? If fatherhood is the true source for all that is evil, then let dad's teach the kids and pray with the kids, not some uncaring secular teacher.
Its nothing about leaders that is the problem. The problem is..we are so quick to judge.
My first church had a solution for...complainers. If you complain about a ministry...you were given leadership of it.
The bible is very clear. You will be judged the measure you judge others. Yes, we are to use scripture to correct and instruct but to do so we must also invest. That...is the problem. Too many compaliners and not enough doers.
Maybe God is leading you to lead....or maybe God is trying to teach you some compassion by showing you your judgemental attitude.
Don't blame the leaders for your poor "followship". Leaders are only as good as those who follow. Follow better.
Stop looking at others and look to yourself.
WE...cannot save the world. WE...are not the answer, Christ Jesus is and if you want to change the world, start with yourself. Its too easy to blame others....the ones who have stepped up to the plate in their imperfect humaness to take on the role of leadership...you have not. Its easy from the cheap seats.
Step up....or be quiet. Help your pastor....or do nothing.
Also, looking at the news all the time will only color your perception of the world. There are thousands of missionaries. Trillions of dollars spent on charities. How much more can we do?
satan certainly wants a defeated attitude...no question.
_____________________________
You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
James 4:4
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Our job is to make God famous - 7/5/2009 9:36:45 PM
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TMeeks
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We are not ever going to be able to clean up a messed up world. That will only happen when Jesus Christ comes again. Not before.
In the meantime, it IS our job to glorify God in all that we do and in every relationship.
We cannot take shortcuts in this regard. It is not enough to blast at churches and church leaders for not doing anything or being what you feel they should not be. We are to look to ourselves and see what God would have US do.
Zeal is a wonderful thing. But, please don't confuse it for wisdom. Wisdom comes from working WITH others, not against them. If we never learn to work with others and to appreciate others in spite of their flaws, we can get very little accomplished. This isn't 'selling out.' It is the Biblical imperative of recognizing that Christ decided to form a BODY of many members working together with the various gifts that they have individually been given.
Neither you nor ANY Christian has been given ALL the gifts that you need to thrive as a believer. God chose to limit each of us in this way so that we WOULD be DEPENDENT on others to be complete as believers. The problem is that when we see our gifts, and then look at others that don't have those same gifts, we can think they are doing something wrong or "missing it." That is a tragic trap that I sense you could easily fall into based on the fact that you haven't been happy with ANY church or group so far.
The problem may not be them. It may be your inability to see THEIR gifts and the value of those different gifts to YOUR life that is the real issue. That may not be true. But, it's certainly something that you need to be watching for in your on life.
quote:
ORIGINAL: cosmiceyes
I came on this site for some kind of spiritual advice that's tangible in a way it could really direct me to aspects of what I could gain to quiet this frustration inside of me.
Believe it or not, it is rest in the fact that Jesus Christ sees every single evil you see and more and He's not paniced. Frantically DOING is not nearly as effective in understanding the plan of God in the midst of an evil world than MEDITATING on the Word of God and the Goodness of our Saviour. It sounds like a pat answer; but, it's not. It alone can change your world.
quote:
ORIGINAL: cosmiceyes
So until you can do that for me, don't give me old sayings that I've already heard in bible study.
But, comiceyes, what if those "old sayings" are TRUTH and you just weren't at the place in your life to accept them as truth because of your frustration. Perhaps it's time to stop and ponder some of those old sayings and see if they might have exactly to answers to your questions and searching.
quote:
ORIGINAL: cosmiceyes
I don't mean to come off like this people but I'm just woman who God has put a good amount of wisdom in my eyes to see that this world just isn't right.
This world isn't right. But, GOD is right... and, God's plan is right. From everything I read in the Bible, it is God's plan to let the ENTIRE creation, including angels and other beings, see the full destructive power of sin and rebellion before wiping away sin and rebellion forever. So, He is letting this sinful world play out its rebellion until its destruction is complete. In fact, the destruction will be SO complete that noone will EVER challenge God again in eternity future.
But, we don't need to fret about it. We simply need to focus our lives on Jesus Christ and live "Christ in Us" before all those around us... to Glorify Him in our lives and to encourage OTHER Christians to do the same.
< Message edited by TMeeks -- 7/5/2009 9:47:32 PM >
_____________________________
Discovery with Microscopes Blog
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RE: Leaders Have To Be Doing Something Wrong - 7/5/2009 9:37:40 PM
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cosmiceyes
Posts: 72
Joined: 7/4/2009
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I don't think that wanting world change should be equated with arrogance, especially wanting it for the better. You say we are to teach others the Word of God, but not expect change? This seems a bit contradictory, if not then please explain what you mean.
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RE: Leaders Have To Be Doing Something Wrong - 7/5/2009 9:40:35 PM
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SonInMe1
Posts: 1824
Joined: 4/16/2005
From: my mom by God
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talk is cheap. If you are being led to change the world, then...do so.
_____________________________
You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
James 4:4
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RE: Leaders Have To Be Doing Something Wrong - 7/5/2009 9:56:11 PM
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DeliveredDarling
Posts: 1542
Joined: 8/30/2007
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quote:
You say we are to teach others the Word of God, but not expect change? This seems a bit contradictory, if not then please explain what you mean.
The explanation is simple-teach the Word of God in Truth and entirety. I didn't mean to imply that you were being arrogant. It is arrogant thinking to believe that we can change this world when Christ has told us that He is the change this world needs. We cannot do anything to change the world no matter how noble our thinking and intentions may be. The world is full of sin and it will get worse. We shouldn't focus on the world and it's sinfulness but focus on Christ and what He did to save us from it!
This is joyful news! The enemy prowls about to STEAL the joy you have in Him!
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
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RE: Leaders Have To Be Doing Something Wrong - 7/5/2009 10:10:08 PM
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cosmiceyes
Posts: 72
Joined: 7/4/2009
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SonInMe1
quote:
missing the mark preaching unconvicting uninspiring baby's milk instead of meat.
If your pastor is preaching milk, its your fault for being there. Either talk to the man...or vote with your feet.
quote:
A little correction might cause a great awakening!
In other words a little correction...from you.
quote:
So there it is. Our fathers allowed scripture and prayer to be removed from public education.
An absolute legal falsehood. You really want some liberal secular teacher leading your kids in prayer or teaching them about Jesus? If fatherhood is the true source for all that is evil, then let dad's teach the kids and pray with the kids, not some uncaring secular teacher.
Its nothing about leaders that is the problem. The problem is..we are so quick to judge.
My first church had a solution for...complainers. If you complain about a ministry...you were given leadership of it.
The bible is very clear. You will be judged the measure you judge others. Yes, we are to use scripture to correct and instruct but to do so we must also invest. That...is the problem. Too many compaliners and not enough doers.
Maybe God is leading you to lead....or maybe God is trying to teach you some compassion by showing you your judgemental attitude.
Don't blame the leaders for your poor "followship". Leaders are only as good as those who follow. Follow better.
Stop looking at others and look to yourself.
WE...cannot save the world. WE...are not the answer, Christ Jesus is and if you want to change the world, start with yourself. Its too easy to blame others....the ones who have stepped up to the plate in their imperfect humaness to take on the role of leadership...you have not. Its easy from the cheap seats.
Step up....or be quiet. Help your pastor....or do nothing.
Also, looking at the news all the time will only color your perception of the world. There are thousands of missionaries. Trillions of dollars spent on charities. How much more can we do?
satan certainly wants a defeated attitude...no question.
enough said. I'm not the one with an attitude.
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RE: Leaders Have To Be Doing Something Wrong - 7/5/2009 10:27:45 PM
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cosmiceyes
Posts: 72
Joined: 7/4/2009
Status: offline
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I guess nobody should've questioned the Pharisees because they were the law.
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