|
Users viewing this topic:
none
|
|
Login  | |
|
Question - 10/14/2009 12:26:12 PM
|
|
|
AboundinginHisGrace
Posts: 268
Joined: 4/28/2008
Status: offline
|
Ok, I am currently very active in our church. I teach a college age sundayschool class and help out with the youth on Wed nights. Ok here is the problem. There are somethings in the church that I like and some things I dislike. Here are a few problems I have with the church; We do not have elders, sinners prayer is preached, I am not growing spiritualy and a few other things. We currently have a transitional pastor. Our old pastor was asked to leave due to a lot of things. There was a lot of members who left, lies told, etc etc. Most of the trouble makers are gone now, however a few do still attend and are in certain positions in the church. In the next year or so we will vote in a new pastor. There are a lot of good people in the church and I love to fellowship with them. I also see widespread lack of biblical knowledge throughout the church. Here is my question. Am I being judgemental and divicive? I do not know what to do. I want to be in God's will and I do not want to be a selfrightous person and judgemental. I just do not know how to go about this. Should we wait to see how the nest pastor is going to be? Leave? Any info would be great. By the way the church is southern baptist.
< Message edited by AboundinginHisGrace -- 10/14/2009 12:34:13 PM >
_____________________________
Some want to live within the sound of church or chapel bell; I want to run a rescue shop within a yard of hell."
- C.L. Studd
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Question - 10/14/2009 2:32:20 PM
|
|
|
DeliveredDarling
Posts: 1780
Joined: 8/30/2007
Status: offline
|
quote:
I am not growing spiritualy and a few other things.
This is your responsibility. If you want to grow, you need to seek Him for yourself.
Growth does not equal sitting under a pastor every Sunday morning and night.
The sinner's prayer is a tool people use to help guide the lost into salvation. many do not even begin to know how to talk to God. It's helpful in those situations.
Search the scriptures to see if your church lines up biblically with the way a church should be. You are SB, aren't our elders called deacons? (I'm SB too)
Many SB churches are falling to the wayside because the world has been allowed in. That does not mean that YOU have to turn tale and run. YOU can stand for what you believe in. You can stand godly in the face od adversity. You may not be popular but if you are following Christ, that is what matters.
Any church you go to, there will be problems of some sort. We can't just leave because people aren't doing things "the way we think they should". However, being a believer, you have a responsibility for yourself and the ones you teach.
Do you pray? Hit your knees for your leadership and your congregation. You want to see God move mightily-get a pray group going within your body!
Don't let problems be a stumbling block for you. You just might be the one He is stirring to bring others back to the real purpose of church!
Praying for you!
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Question - 10/14/2009 2:47:58 PM
|
|
|
jhuperetes
Posts: 472
Status: offline
|
I just read an article about how we should stay and "fight". I a firm believer of trying everything possible to correct a church before giving up and moving on.
I could be wrong on this, but just my thought.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Question - 10/14/2009 8:09:59 PM
|
|
|
singpeace
Posts: 81
Joined: 9/19/2009
Status: offline
|
I had the same experience 15 years ago.
As it turned out, there were three people with positions in the church who wanted control.
Unfortunately, my sweet Pastor was easily intimidated. In the course of about 3 years, I watched the whole congregation divide, bicker, back-bite, gossip, then scatter.
A handful of us prayed with the Pastor and his wife twice a week over the matter for a whole year. We heard him pour his heart out to God. He was a good man -- (not sure about yours). But he and his wife used their authority in Christ and God's Word to bind spirits and claim victory over every thing that was coming against them; as in Eph. 6 that we wrestle not against flesh and blood but principalities and powers and rulers of the air in dark places.
Then they treated their enemies with dignity and respect and love.
I don't know your real situation there. Perhaps your Pastor was the problem and things will get better, but I just bet that someone is running things who ought not to and is taking advantage of God's children for reasons of pride, prestige, and power.
I've heard that it is the spirit of Python that does this kind of thing. I looked it up, and it's very interesting.
'Not trying to get all radical on you or anything.
In my opinion, it will not get better until the sin is out of the camp. I don't mean our every day messed up sins. I mean the sin of KNOWINGLY DEVISING PLANS TO use God's place of worship for personal gain while placing stumbling blocks all over the place. That person is a Pharisee. Jesus called them vipers and snakes.
Unless he/she/they are confronted as instructed by Paul in Romans: first privately and with love, then with a few kind but wise witnesses and still with love, and finally, in front of the congregation. If there is no true repentance, get whoever it is out of there.
Father, I don't know exactly what their situation is, but your child has discerned something he probably can't quite place, yet. He is seeking the truth and answers, Lord. Just like my situation all those years ago, there was fear and confusion. The enemy brings that, Lord. Father, equip this brother of mine so that he will be more than prepared to carry out whatever You tell him. If You want him to go somewhere else, I pray that he find that place soon and has peace like a river with no guilt or shame or fear. You are in control, and we are to be faithful and just trust You. Help him to hear your voice and know you are present with him often through this time. Lord Jesus, I ask that You intercede for this congregation of children who could be hurt. Protect them. Give them wisdom and knowledge and power and sound minds. Save this place of worship from all pride, arrogance, and deceit. In Jesus' name, I pray. Amen.
_____________________________
Psalm 123:1 Unto You do I lift up my eyes, O You Who are enthroned in heaven.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Question - 10/14/2009 8:30:51 PM
|
|
|
ParadoxProject
Posts: 9
Joined: 10/14/2009
Status: offline
|
I don't go to church anymore for the same reason.
When you reach a point where you're so far ahead of the guy who's preaching at you... you're dragging lead.
There are those people who need milk.. then like you/I... those who need jet fuel...
I myself can't even find a place that serves jet fuel, so I distill it myself.
I still tithe sometimes in large chunks just to keep the milk barn open for those who aren't on the jet fuel yet and do consider that church isn't just for gaining knowledge but for 'God Worship' and supporting others.
If you like going, go for what you like and ignore the rest... then distill your own jet fuel yourself.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Question - 10/17/2009 8:58:54 AM
|
|
|
Grey_1
Posts: 38
Joined: 2/10/2009
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: deliveredarling
Do you pray? Hit your knees for your leadership and your congregation. You want to see God move mightily-get a pray group going within your body!
Don't let problems be a stumbling block for you. You just might be the one He is stirring to bring others back to the real purpose of church!
Praying for you!
I echo these wise words. I obviously don't know you, but you, like me, might not be able to envision yourself as someone God would use powerfully.
Neither did Gideon. 
If nothing else, and you are led to seek a new home, God may at least use you to plant seeds in other believers there. Remember you are a child of the Most High. Abide in Him, He in you, be available for Him to work His work through.
God Bless you
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Question - 10/17/2009 11:55:45 AM
|
|
|
Judson50
Posts: 68
Joined: 8/15/2005
Status: offline
|
You are in an interesting predicament. Here are some pointers I suggest for biblical decision making.
1) Make sure you are saved. If you aren't sure, then you wont' get anywhere. I find it is always good to "Check yourself before you wreck yourself". James 3 talks about teachers who lead their students down a path that leads to hell because they either a.) aren't saved or b.) dont' know what they are talking about.
2.) If you are save, make sure you are progressively being sanctified. It is NOT your pastors job to MAKE you learn. If you aren't learning then you need to "Check yourself before you wreck yourself". God's word tells us that if you aren't growing then you HAVE A PROBLEM. Either a.) you are deceived into thinking your are saved b.) you are in sin and being disobedience. James chapter 1 tells us that it is not God's fault or someone elses fault we sin, but our own. If you are not growing in the knowledge and grace of God, you need to be SPURRED on to love and good deeds. There is no such thing as "Stagnant Christianity"; rather that is called sin.
3.) Finally, be submissive. If you are saved, and continually being progressively sanctified then you are being submissive and you need to continue to focus on the Glory of His Grace. If God called you to teach, then you need to teach. If He called you to serve, then you need to serve. Just because you are serving/teaching in a "difficult" church, isn't the point. For some reason we as Christians believe that when we become a Christian God will put us in a "good" church and when we lead/teach people will "Flock" to it and there will be growth. Yet, sometimes God want you to serve in a failing church and reach only one person. God called ALOT of Christians in the New Testament to difficult ministries (Paul, Peter, John, Stephen ect) and they all were murdered for their obedience.
I recently went through a "difficult time" and this is what God opened my heart to, it is not about me, but His glory. I too lead a college ministry and it has had its challenges. I found that Perhaps God wasn't focused on using me to help them grow, but wanted to help me grow. That was a radical shift I had to make in my thinking. The fact that, I too am fragile, sinful and can so easily attempt to eclipse teh Glory of God with myself.
All that to say, take responsibility for your own faith by passionately seeking the Glory of the Grace of God. In that God will be glorified and THAT is your main ministry.
_____________________________
Blog | Facebook | Twitter
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Question - 10/17/2009 1:48:02 PM
|
|
|
HaveMercyonUS
Posts: 203
Joined: 8/16/2009
Status: offline
|
I just left a church myself for lack of spiritually growing there and there have been many others who had been there for years longer than I leave too. I just found out this church was established 20 years ago, but membership never grew more than 200 members in all that time. Not that I expect mega-church growth, but there should be some. There were many things lacking in the church, like greeting newcomers beyond the handing out of morning notices. I had to hunt down any info about bible study classes and such when I started attending, however I thought perhaps I could help using my own experience to go on. When several other members approached one of the pastors regarding this and even presented a plan we had come up with on how we could greet newcomers and reach out into the community it was pretty much shot down. The head pastor was already set in his ways and really didn't want any growth. I knew then it was time to find a new church.
My suggestion would be to present any ideas you might have and see how they are recieved. I believe there is always room for improvement no matter how good things are. If those in leadership aren't even willing to consider any new ideas (not that they have to agree with them, but just entertain them), I mean if they just shoot them down without giving them any thought then maybe it's time to look for a new church. However, if you really like it there and a new pastor is going to be elected or hired, then perhaps it would be worthwhile to stick around and see how things turn out.
I would have stayed at my old church if I thought there was chance things might have gotten better, but the head pastor governed with an iron fist and could not be swayed regarding anything. He liked things just the way they were. I personally couldn't stay where things would remain in a stagnant state and where no change was in sight.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Question - 10/17/2009 10:22:57 PM
|
|
|
heremainsfaithful
Posts: 184
Joined: 10/14/2009
From: Alabama
Status: offline
|
I have to say I find the idea that one is too spiritually mature to attend church very intriguing. Not very biblical, but very intriguing
I have been in a church where pastoral authority was taken so far that people almost lived in fear of him.
I have been in a church where two or three families ran off any preacher they couldn't control.
I am currently in a church that isn't always perfect, put the pastor preaches the Word and the leaders are godly. Yes, people get their feathers ruffled sometimes, but things tend to go along anyway.
I believe that we join a church not because of what it can do for us but because God leads us to be a functioning member of that particular body. Consumerism is rampant in the church - ie the members are the consumers and the services provided are the product.
And remember that pastors aren't supernatural hybrids of some sort. They are fallable human beings whom God has called to minister. I have never met an authentic Christian I couldn't learn something from.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Question - 10/18/2009 1:23:19 AM
|
|
|
m4maggie
Posts: 1197
Joined: 12/11/2008
From: I... AM...CANADIAN!
Status: offline
|
The Church as a whole is gravy.. what is in our hearts as an individual is what matters. The task, is to find one that preaches truth!
_____________________________
" I don't question your existence" - God
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Question - 10/18/2009 2:10:05 AM
|
|
|
starcraft
Posts: 58
Joined: 4/2/2009
Status: offline
|
Is there blatant sinning taking place, or just your everyday difficult people?...you don't really give us alot of info. and this would determined how I'd respond.
quote:
I have to say I find the idea that one is too spiritually mature to attend church very intriguing. Not very biblical, but very intriguing
I think I understand. If you attend a seeker sensitive church, or similar, the messages can be pretty simple and boring for a mature christian. Bill Hybel's Willow Creek in Chicago just did a major study that revealed they were losing their most mature, dedicated Christians as a result of their balance having swung too far toward seeker focus at the expense of the mature believers.
< Message edited by starcraft -- 10/18/2009 2:19:17 AM >
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Question - 10/18/2009 7:04:46 AM
|
|
|
singpeace
Posts: 81
Joined: 9/19/2009
Status: offline
|
Paradox,
That is hilarious, and you hit the nail on the head.
I love the church I attend now. I've never come across anything like this church before. It's hard to explain, but I've never seen so many talented and REAL people together in one place before... when this church has a day of going into the community and rebuilding/remodeling/rewiring/landscaping for elderly, disabled, and single moms, over 90% of the members show up. Nearly 400 people wearing the same T-shirt, laughing, excited, and working really hard.
We wear casual clothes, but we can wear what we want. If anyone comes in wearing a suit, we know they are new and get silly with excitement about meeting them during the few min. of meet-and-greet time.
The place is getting a lot of attention in our area. Our pastor has received emails from other pastors admonishing him about stepping outside the box. One even said to him, "You let just anybody come to your church."
I am no longer shocked at how many Pharisees are buzzing around in the back offices of church buildings.
I hope I never become full of religion, but just go around helping people to find their way to Jesus... to knowing Him and not just knowing about him.
_____________________________
Psalm 123:1 Unto You do I lift up my eyes, O You Who are enthroned in heaven.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Question - 10/18/2009 11:45:46 AM
|
|
|
heremainsfaithful
Posts: 184
Joined: 10/14/2009
From: Alabama
Status: offline
|
Starcraft, I would love to see that study. I am all for making people comfortable and welcome, but at some point - if it really is going to be a church - there has to be some real doctrine and spiritual meat being taught. My husband was music minister at a church that decided to go "seeker," and he lost his job over it. Not because he was some meanie, but because he wasn't going to cut out hymns of truth that might be too "convicting," and because my husband doesn't have a rock star personality, which is the type of worship leader they wanted.
And I think I was too southern and genteel earlier. There is noting biblically sound about forsaking the assembling together because one has decided that they are spiritually above everyone at the church including the preacher. That sounds more like religious pride than spirituality.
By the way I am a terrible typist.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Question - 10/19/2009 1:24:39 AM
|
|
|
starcraft
Posts: 58
Joined: 4/2/2009
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: heremainsfaithful
Starcraft, I would love to see that study. I am all for making people comfortable and welcome, but at some point - if it really is going to be a church - there has to be some real doctrine and spiritual meat being taught. My husband was music minister at a church that decided to go "seeker," and he lost his job over it. Not because he was some meanie, but because he wasn't going to cut out hymns of truth that might be too "convicting," and because my husband doesn't have a rock star personality, which is the type of worship leader they wanted.
And I think I was too southern and genteel earlier. There is noting biblically sound about forsaking the assembling together because one has decided that they are spiritually above everyone at the church including the preacher. That sounds more like religious pride than spirituality.
By the way I am a terrible typist.
They call it the reveal study and it can be found somewhere at willowcreek.com
I wouldn't be so quick to assume pride as it's pretty easy for a mature christian to find himself spiritually advanced well beyond the congregation and that of the sermon with the explosion of seeker focused churches that have sprung up across the country.
|
|
|
|
 New Messages |
 No New Messages |
 Hot Topic w/ New Messages |
 Hot Topic w/o New Messages |
 Locked w/ New Messages |
 Locked w/o New Messages |
|
 Post New Thread
Reply to Message
Post New Poll
Submit Vote
Delete My Own Post
Delete My Own Thread
Rate Posts |
|
|
Forum Tools
Printable Version
