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RE: Have you read "I Kissed Dating Goodbye"? - 9/28/2006 1:12:21 AM
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sunshine4God
Posts: 5198
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Sterling Ct.
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We did a study on this book when I was in teen sunday school and I felt the same way about it that jhs girl did.It was just way too extreme sounding for me.
_____________________________
Matthew 5:16.
"Let your light so shine before men that they will see
your good deeds and glorify your Lord".
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RE: Have you read "I Kissed Dating Goodbye"? - 9/28/2006 5:07:14 AM
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recoveringfrompain
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I read it a couple of years ago and thought it was an interesting book, I can understand where Mr Harris is coming from, what's funny is at the time I read it I knew a few people who didn't take such relationships seriously at all, they were more interested in "hooking up" (I think that's what they call it). I think dating (or going steady) for marriage is okay and it's nice to see the old fashioned value of courtship become popular again.
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RE: Have you read "I Kissed Dating Goodbye"? - 9/28/2006 5:47:15 AM
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3cappuccinosmom
Posts: 2834
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quote:
It bothers me that her friends change boyfriends the way they change underwear. All the time. The good news is, the relationships are all very casual.
Er, I wouldn't consider that good news.  Especially because there's no guarantee that these relationships are casual and pure. Many kids will call themselves "virgins" and still participate in oral sex and sexual perversions, thinking that if it's not missionary-position sex, it's not really sex. Have you heard of "friends with benefits"? There was a lot of that going on in my highschool.
I read the book and liked it, quite a few years ago. It confirmed what I already believed--that it wasn't healthy to get into the dating game, but that I should focus first on preparing my own self for marriage, follow God's call on my life, and then see who's running the race next to me. I don't think Josh in any way said or implied that we're just supposed to sit at home in a rocking chair and wait for God to drop a spouse in our laps. That's a really unfair accusation. 
As it happens, I met my husband in another country while I was on a short term missions trip. We didn't go out on a single date. We did spend a tremendous amount of time discussing issues important to marriage and working together, and he proposed within 6 weeks. I am so, so glad that neither of us has any relationship baggage whatsoever, and that we are each other's "first and only" even when it comes to holding hands and smootching. I very much hope the same for my children.
Come to think of it, I think Josh Harris would consider us a little extreme. 
_____________________________
"Children are durable and don’t necessarily wilt under adversity, just as our children don’t necessarily thrive under luxury and comfort." Garrison Keillor
Shameless Self Promotion
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RE: Have you read "I Kissed Dating Goodbye"? - 9/28/2006 9:11:38 AM
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applemac
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 3cappuccinosmom
Er, I wouldn't consider that good news. Especially because there's no guarantee that these relationships are casual and pure. Many kids will call themselves "virgins" and still participate in oral sex and sexual perversions, thinking that if it's not missionary-position sex, it's not really sex. Have you heard of "friends with benefits"? There was a lot of that going on in my highschool.
Just FYI, I teach at her school and I'm pretty familiar with all her friends. They concern me. Have you ever looked at someone and thought, 'Wow, if something doesn't change in their path, they'll be...' That's how I feel about a couple of these kids.
ANYWAY, I still want to hear comments from people who have read the book, and why people didn't. I also like the other book recommendations.
PLEASE NOTE: I have not given this book to my daughter and told her this is how it's going to be. I've just read the first couple of chapters. I'm not going to give any book like that to her if I haven't read it and approved it first. I consider myself to have a small ability in reading a book and gleaning the good information and mentally discarding the rest.
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RE: Have you read "I Kissed Dating Goodbye"? - 9/28/2006 11:36:06 AM
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captainfraulein
Posts: 527
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Andrewsjoy
The reason that these are the only examples is b/c that was the only way that it was done in that time.
God has not called us to live in a previous culture, but rather instructs us to be a part of the world that we now live in.
We are to live by basic principles of the Word, i.e. instructions on lust, young men to protect the young women, purity, guarding our minds and on and on.
This does not however mean that God has told us "thou shalt not date."(
We do live in a different world than that time period. But I believe that does not mean we disregard everything that happened in the bible. We try to think how does it apply to now? The point I am making is that there is no such thing as a boyfriend/girlfriend relationship in the bible period. We have invented that in modern times. You look back even the turn of the century and there were courtships. That was how it was done up till modern times. Outside of the cultural things, there is many pearls of wisdom there in the bible when it comes to pre-marriage behavior and marriage.
quote:
(me-redwhiterose-) Dating our courtship-it has NOTHING to do with labels and everything to to with hearts.
Dating is not inherintly wrong, nor is courtship the answer to all dating ills.
It is each individual, and couple, following God's plan for them personally,and obeying His commands from scripture that makes a difference.
One could follow all the "rules" of "courtship" and their heart may be full of lust and impure thoughts, while another couple may be "dating" and have pure motives and hearts.
Yes, dating by the world's standards will leave you with nothing but heartache.
But if you are following God's plan for you, if you are seeking Him and obeying, this does not have to be the case.
Just b/c the world has corrupted something does not make our godly use of it wrong.
The word has corrupted Christmas, Easter....and on and on.
The world has corrupted marriage, for that matter. This does not make it wrong.
It is the heart of the person, and them obeying what God personally wants for them, not shunning a word or a way of doing things.
I do not think dating in itself is so bad. I think though there is much more danger in someone's heart getting broken. Men as a rule, have a hard time genereally committing. Marriage is about commitment. Test driving a girl is wrong. "I think I will kiss her, feel her out...and oops! I am not so interested in marrying her after all...bye bye". Courtship puts more boundries on this. It is my experience 90% of couples experience great lust and have temptation to step over the boundries. Courtship establishes some godly boundries. Each couple should look at Scripture and how their relationship plays out will automatically be different...
quote:
redwhiterose I have never ever experienced true courtship. I want to. Badly. But with the right guy!
You can call these two things whatever you want...but that don't mean that they are not what they are.
If some dude I really wanted, asked if he could court me, I would be honored and delighted. And yes, I would call it "dating" to those outside my church (which heavily leans towards courtship actually). We would certainly go on to Cold Stone ice cream trips. And baskin robbins. And pubs and such. Movies. (I am dreaming a little bit too much here).
But I would still think of it as courting if he asked to court me.
And I would love to see people who think Josh Harris says "stand here and wait for a mate to be put in front of you by God" to give some concrete examples of why you feel that way from his actual writings. What does he say to make you feel that way?
quote:
Andrewsjoy says in response to the above quote from me I have met so many people who fit this bill...who follow this advice, it makes me ill.
I asked for examples of Josh Harris saying "Stand around and wait for a mate". I do not believe he says that in his writings but I am open to reading on examples of him saying that.
I am having trouble figuring out what makes you ill. Are you just being rude here or do you have a specific thing you are refering to that makes you ill? Please define that, I am at a loss here how to interpet this but plain ad hominem emotional attacks on courtship or maybe even my particular previous post. I guess ice cream trips make you ill...and I should write about something.."spicy"??? I really do not know what you are attacking, ect that I seem perhaps a bit too vanilla goody goody to you? Thx. Appreciate it in advance.
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RE: Have you read "I Kissed Dating Goodbye"? - 9/28/2006 11:58:00 AM
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not_the_first
Posts: 177
Joined: 12/1/2005
From: near The Lake
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I read it and didn't care for it personally. I think it's fine for someone young, or someone who doesn't have a lot of experience with dating yet. I read it in my mid to upper '20's and found that it was difficult for me to relate to this book because I already had to much "experience". It was a little fairytale-ish to me. I personally liked Boundaries in Dating much better. However, it sounds like your daughter is still young and the concepts in the book (waiting for your spouse, God is in control) are good to hear at her age.
Just my opionion overall about the book: When you look at who wrote it and how young they were when they got married, I can see it's appeal to younger adults or teenagers. For those who have been single well into their adult years, it's difficult to take advice from someone who got married very early on and didn't really experience the difficulties of being single and on your own throughout your 20's and even into your 30's. Just my 2 cents.
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RE: Have you read "I Kissed Dating Goodbye"? - 9/28/2006 12:09:07 PM
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buckifn
Posts: 1759
Joined: 5/23/2006
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haven't read it...why? because I'm married and have no need for a book like that, however, if I were single I would have prob. checked it out..the title sounds intriguing.
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RE: Have you read "I Kissed Dating Goodbye"? - 9/28/2006 1:58:24 PM
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Andrewsjoy
Posts: 252
Joined: 4/28/2005
From: Beautiful Kelowna British Columbia
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quote:
ORIGINAL: redwhiterose
quote:
ORIGINAL: Andrewsjoy
The reason that these are the only examples is b/c that was the only way that it was done in that time.
God has not called us to live in a previous culture, but rather instructs us to be a part of the world that we now live in.
We are to live by basic principles of the Word, i.e. instructions on lust, young men to protect the young women, purity, guarding our minds and on and on.
This does not however mean that God has told us "thou shalt not date."(
We do live in a different world than that time period. But I believe that does not mean we disregard everything that happened in the bible. We try to think how does it apply to now? The point I am making is that there is no such thing as a boyfriend/girlfriend relationship in the bible period. We have invented that in modern times. You look back even the turn of the century and there were courtships. That was how it was done up till modern times. Outside of the cultural things, there is many pearls of wisdom there in the bible when it comes to pre-marriage behavior and marriage.
Of course there are pearls of wisdom, and we are to obey every direct command from Scripture.
But this does not mean cutting ourselves off from a part of culture, or shunning something.
Dating is not inherintly bad. It's how you are approaching it, if you are ready for it, but mostly ,as i have said, the condition of your heart, your motives.
quote:
ORIGINAL: redwhiterose
quote:
(me-redwhiterose-) Dating our courtship-it has NOTHING to do with labels and everything to to with hearts.
Dating is not inherintly wrong, nor is courtship the answer to all dating ills.
It is each individual, and couple, following God's plan for them personally,and obeying His commands from scripture that makes a difference.
One could follow all the "rules" of "courtship" and their heart may be full of lust and impure thoughts, while another couple may be "dating" and have pure motives and hearts.
Yes, dating by the world's standards will leave you with nothing but heartache.
But if you are following God's plan for you, if you are seeking Him and obeying, this does not have to be the case.
Just b/c the world has corrupted something does not make our godly use of it wrong.
The word has corrupted Christmas, Easter....and on and on.
The world has corrupted marriage, for that matter. This does not make it wrong.
It is the heart of the person, and them obeying what God personally wants for them, not shunning a word or a way of doing things.
I do not think dating in itself is so bad. I think though there is much more danger in someone's heart getting broken. Men as a rule, have a hard time genereally committing. Marriage is about commitment. Test driving a girl is wrong. "I think I will kiss her, feel her out...and oops! I am not so interested in marrying her after all...bye bye". Courtship puts more boundries on this. It is my experience 90% of couples experience great lust and have temptation to step over the boundries. Courtship establishes some godly boundries. Each couple should look at Scripture and how their relationship plays out will automatically be different...
There is danger in any relationship-something being a little scary or out of our comfort zones is NOT a bad thing.
Actually, as I've said already, I believe that some of the ideas of this book have helped to create a generation of Christian men who don't know how to go after and persue the girl the way God intended.
YES of CouRSE TEST driving and that type of thing is wrong-you are confusing the issues here. DATING does not mean dating like the world, sleeping around, or even making out w/ every tom, dick and harry you go on a date with! If your heart and motives are in the right place you will not desire to do those type of things, nor agree to take part in them.
For the record, I don't believe in "dating around", especially when you are young and not ready for a relationship. I believe in perposefully dating for marriage when you are ready for that season of your life.
However, it's silly to label something as ungodly simply b/c the world has corrupted it.
quote:
ORIGINAL: redwhiterose
quote:
redwhiterose I have never ever experienced true courtship. I want to. Badly. But with the right guy!
You can call these two things whatever you want...but that don't mean that they are not what they are.
If some dude I really wanted, asked if he could court me, I would be honored and delighted. And yes, I would call it "dating" to those outside my church (which heavily leans towards courtship actually). We would certainly go on to Cold Stone ice cream trips. And baskin robbins. And pubs and such. Movies. (I am dreaming a little bit too much here).
But I would still think of it as courting if he asked to court me.
And I would love to see people who think Josh Harris says "stand here and wait for a mate to be put in front of you by God" to give some concrete examples of why you feel that way from his actual writings. What does he say to make you feel that way?
quote:
Andrewsjoy says in response to the above quote from me I have met so many people who fit this bill...who follow this advice, it makes me ill.
I asked for examples of Josh Harris saying "Stand around and wait for a mate". I do not believe he says that in his writings but I am open to reading on examples of him saying that.
I am having trouble figuring out what makes you ill. Are you just being rude here or do you have a specific thing you are refering to that makes you ill? Please define that, I am at a loss here how to interpet this but plain ad hominem emotional attacks on courtship or maybe even my particular previous post. I guess ice cream trips make you ill...and I should write about something.."spicy"??? I really do not know what you are attacking, ect that I seem perhaps a bit too vanilla goody goody to you? Thx. Appreciate it in advance.
I am not being rude-I apologize, I lived in the south for a bit, and picked up that saying-it just means that something that is going on makes me feel sick to my stomache. It was in no way directed towards you, but towards those whom I see mis-interpreting scripture and following a man-made rule.
"Don’t Do Anything
Following God’s plan for relationships in my life does not mean that I “court” every girl I’m interested in. More often than not, it means I don’t do anything. If we can have a friendship, great. But most of the time it means saying, “Lord, that girl is really cute, and I’m not going to do anything about it.
We get caught up in figuring out the mechanics of courtship because if we’re not dating, we want to be doing something! Sure we trust God, but we want to give him a hand.
Don’t do a thing! Don’t find your identity from some romantic linking to another person. Have friend-ships and develop the character God wants in your life, but don’t be distracted by figuring out how you’ll get from singlehood to matrimony—be concerned with how you’ll get from here to God’s kingdom pure and blameless."
All quotes by Joshua Harris.
He (and many others like him) very much give the impression that we are to wait around...
Of course we should wait for God's timing and plan, but so many have gotten the message from this and others (that I no longer have or own, I see no need to as I disagree and would rather not own them ) that it is our place just to wait for prince charming to come knocking on our doors, and that those who don't just arn't truly trusting in the Lord.
< Message edited by Andrewsjoy -- 9/28/2006 2:02:45 PM >
_____________________________
 Kim :) (I'm a WOMAN!)
My space
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RE: Have you read "I Kissed Dating Goodbye"? - 9/28/2006 3:51:42 PM
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captainfraulein
Posts: 527
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Thanks Andrew. I really appreciate your examples and your apology. I took your sentence the wrong way.
I can see by your examples for Josh Harris I did overlook that he may feel that way.
I tend to lecture my guy friends pretty harshly if they like a girl and do nothing about it (my friend in Sweden actually took my advice to heart and has done crazy things like fly out to the USA to meet one gal...did not work out and is now in a wonderful relationship-leading-to-courtship who is Scottish). I tend to be bossy so sometimes guy friends listen to me. I am very proactive in my life and find it hard to sit and wait..but I do believe for me, I need to do that. I do like somebody but since he will not pursue me very much, I figure he does not like me the way I like him. Guys will move heaven and earth, like my Swedish friend does, if they really want to be married and they really like a girl.
You are right, I have been mistreated. I am hoping for enough self-discipline I don't end up in a make-out session once again with a man who wants to just test-drive me. Instead, i want him to honor me as his sister in Christ, treat me as a precious rose. I get weak and it is hard for me. So I think that courtship would be the way to go, even if it is called "dating". Wheather or not I actually ever get to do that, is up to the Father, but boy howdy, do I ever ask Him in prayer! +
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RE: Have you read "I Kissed Dating Goodbye"? - 9/28/2006 4:08:38 PM
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Andrewsjoy
Posts: 252
Joined: 4/28/2005
From: Beautiful Kelowna British Columbia
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: redwhiterose
Thanks Andrew. I really appreciate your examples and your apology. I took your sentence the wrong way.
I can see by your examples for Josh Harris I did overlook that he may feel that way.
I tend to lecture my guy friends pretty harshly if they like a girl and do nothing about it (my friend in Sweden actually took my advice to heart and has done crazy things like fly out to the USA to meet one gal...did not work out and is now in a wonderful relationship-leading-to-courtship who is Scottish). I tend to be bossy so sometimes guy friends listen to me. I am very proactive in my life and find it hard to sit and wait..but I do believe for me, I need to do that. I do like somebody but since he will not pursue me very much, I figure he does not like me the way I like him. Guys will move heaven and earth, like my Swedish friend does, if they really want to be married and they really like a girl.
You are right, I have been mistreated. I am hoping for enough self-discipline I don't end up in a make-out session once again with a man who wants to just test-drive me. Instead, i want him to honor me as his sister in Christ, treat me as a precious rose. I get weak and it is hard for me. So I think that courtship would be the way to go, even if it is called "dating". Wheather or not I actually ever get to do that, is up to the Father, but boy howdy, do I ever ask Him in prayer! +
You have a very tender heart, and come across as one who is earnestly seeking God's will, you've just hit a few bumps.
Hang tight!
He is still there.
I'de strongly encourage you to find someone to hold you accountable and who will encourage you and build you up in this area of your life.
Remember that you are HIS princess, His precious jewel.
Never settle for anyone who treats you as less than that!
I'de also encourage you to read scriptures that remind you of who you are in Him!
_____________________________
Kim :) (I'm a WOMAN!)
My space
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RE: Have you read "I Kissed Dating Goodbye"? - 9/28/2006 5:24:55 PM
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captainfraulein
Posts: 527
Joined: 5/2/2005
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Thank you, kind crosswalk poster. Very nice things you said there. 
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RE: Have you read "I Kissed Dating Goodbye"? - 10/2/2006 2:23:39 PM
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3cappuccinosmom
Posts: 2834
Joined: 4/12/2005
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quote:
Don’t do a thing! Don’t find your identity from some romantic linking to another person. Have friend-ships and develop the character God wants in your life, but don’t be distracted by figuring out how you’ll get from singlehood to matrimony—be concerned with how you’ll get from here to God’s kingdom pure and blameless."
I would like to point out that having friendships is not actually "doing nothing". He's talking about not being obsessed with romance and "making a catch", but trusting God to do the matchmaking while you develop friendships with others around you and develop your own character.
_____________________________
"Children are durable and don’t necessarily wilt under adversity, just as our children don’t necessarily thrive under luxury and comfort." Garrison Keillor
Shameless Self Promotion
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RE: Have you read "I Kissed Dating Goodbye"? - 10/2/2006 3:40:37 PM
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stax_guy
Posts: 5
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: New York, NY
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Read it years ago. I hated the book with a passion for a while, because it really wreaked havoc on my dating experiences. “I don’t date,” became the new phrase of rejection for me that I got from the Christian ladies. I’ve softened my view of the book lately. I’m still no fan of it, but I realize that Harris wrote it as a naïve young man, and he has gotten better as a writer in his later books, so I’ll cut him some slack.
Here’s my basic assessment: IKDG has some good things to say for younger people and for couples that know they want to pursue a relationship with each other, but for older singles, particularly older singles that have difficulty attracting the opposite sex, it’s pretty much unhelpful and even useless.
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RE: Have you read "I Kissed Dating Goodbye"? - 10/2/2006 10:26:35 PM
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netstroller
Posts: 214
Joined: 4/14/2005
From: dust and ashes
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 3cappuccinosmom
quote:
Don’t do a thing! Don’t find your identity from some romantic linking to another person. Have friend-ships and develop the character God wants in your life, but don’t be distracted by figuring out how you’ll get from singlehood to matrimony—be concerned with how you’ll get from here to God’s kingdom pure and blameless."
I would like to point out that having friendships is not actually "doing nothing". He's talking about not being obsessed with romance and "making a catch", but trusting God to do the matchmaking while you develop friendships with others around you and develop your own character.
That make sense. Considering how "being best friends" with the spouse is one of the most important things for a good marriage, it makes no sense to discount the importance of cultivating friendships. And this happens at a much more effective level outside of the typical dating cycle.
_____________________________
...let us run with endurance the race that is set before us, looking to Jesus, the founder and perfecter of our faith, ...
(Heb 12:1-2)
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RE: Have you read "I Kissed Dating Goodbye"? - 10/3/2006 1:57:40 PM
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(thats another can of worms). I think parents would be astonished at the # of kids that loose their virginity on so called dates,proms ect. I wish I had parents growing up that didnt allow me to date or see boys as boyfriends, period. And taught me more about self respect and boundaries. I cant amagine what its like, how wonderful it must be to go into union with the person God personally created for me without any garbage from the past learning everything scared together and keeping it that way. I dont contimplate my past or hold grudges against anyone including myself. But if I could do it all over again Id want to do it Gods way and in His timing. Maybe out to eat and such after seventeen but only with The One.
