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RE: A question about OT prophets versus NT prophets - 12/20/2007 8:11:04 AM
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earthless
Posts: 6132
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From: where pigeons are wearing sweaters....
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Hawkins,
Any so called Prophet will have to stand or fall in light of Scripture.
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Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: A question about OT prophets versus NT prophets - 1/11/2008 7:49:37 PM
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cybrjewls
Posts: 1479
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Greetings Black Sabbath! Please notice the Teaching of Jesus regarding The Kingdom of God:
Matthew 11
All the Prophets of the Law prophesied until John the Baptist, the Elijah to come
It is also written: The one who is least in the Kingdom of God is greater than the greatest Old testament Prophet
1 Corinthians 14:29 Church order in New Testament prophecy 1 Corinthians 14
We see that the ministry of prophecy has advanced with the Teaching of repentance about The Kingdom of God with order:
33For God is not a God of disorder but of peace.
The Kingdom teaching is that everyone will give account for every word:
Every word in The Kingdom of God to be accountable to God
Therefore the Law of Moses is fulfilled in Christ that those who are greater than prophets will:
Presumptive Speaking
And anyone who speaks should speak as though they are speaking the very words of God as it is written:
1 Peter 3:11 anyone should speak like this
These are Teachings for those of the kingdom of God, his chosen People the Body of Christ.
We are all to come in The Name of Jesus and ask for things in His Name, therefore, we are held to the Kingdom Teaching of Jesus regarding Our own words. It is written:
In The Name of Jesus
quote:
ORIGINAL: BlackSabbath
Hi everybody. In all the years I was in the Pentecostal/charismatic church, I was taught this rather strange doctrine, IMO, that a genuine OT prophet was 100 % correct in his prophecies, but a genuine NT prophet is not necessarily 100% correct.
How on earth is this bizarre doctrine justifed is beyond me, but it had something to do with the OT prophet being under the law, whilst the NT prophet was under grace. Whoopee I say. Big deal. It's the same Holy Spirit that uttered prophecies whether in the OT or NT. I don't see how the Holy Spirit can get it wrong now sometimes because we're in the era of grace.
Personally, I think it's all baloney so that every man and his dog could make outlandish "propehecies" that didn't have to be accountable by any test. I'm sorry if I'm coming across cynical, but that's the way I see it. I think it's ridiculous that a real prophet can get it wrong. I think it's just a con job for people to proclaim themselves "prophets" without meeting the test.
If someone could clarify this bizarre doctrine for me, I'd greatly appreciate it.
We are all to come in The Name of Jesus and pray in The Name:
In The Name of Jesus
[edited by moderator]
< Message edited by prophetica -- 1/11/2008 8:12:36 PM >
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RE: A question about OT prophets versus NT prophets - 1/15/2008 11:55:21 AM
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cybrjewls
Posts: 1479
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Greetings! Also, we notice that The Kingdom teaching for New Testament Scriptures is written primarily by Apostles as Gospel Testimony as contasted with the Old Testament which was primarily given to Prophets. Therefore, the Kingdom advanced as it is written: I will send them prophets and apostles and He first appointed apostles, prophets, and teachers and he gave some to be apostles, some to be prophets, and some to be evangelists.
We see that the word 'apostle' means a messenger and ambassador from another country.
In this way, The Kingdom of God is advanced in the New Testament by Apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors, and teachers.. Whereas, in the Old Testament, the Prophets of God were the primary messengers by Prophecy.
We see that this is Christs Teaching: for all the law and the prophets prophesied until John the Baptist whose name was given by an angel and it means 'my messenger'.
< Message edited by prophetica -- 1/16/2008 2:16:10 AM >
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RE: A question about OT prophets versus NT prophets - 1/15/2008 1:01:18 PM
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stateofgrace
Posts: 1993
Joined: 4/12/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: HawkinsA
1. Even in the last days, you'll see His Witnesses to be sent
a Witness is not the necessarily the same as a Prophet.
quote:
2. Hope that you sound even logical that if by any chance you need to test the spirit of the false prophets, that means, prophet exists.
Huh? No, it doesn't necessarily mean that prophets exist today - simply that those who claim to be prophets (or who others claim to be prophets) exist today
quote:
Else you'll be told to say that whoever claimed to be a prophet will be a false prophet. (why do you even need a test at all)
We're pretty much told in the NT to test teachings of all kinds. We're also told that false prophets exist.
quote:
3. A prophet is sent when God sees fit, not judged by you to say that "It's not needed..." etc.
Many claim to be prophets (or others claim that they are) - some of them aren't even Christians. Is everyone who claims to be a prophet necessarily so?
quote:
4. A prophet will have "new revelations" (as I said, it boils down to how you define the term "new revelation"),
Not necessarily. Take a look at the Strong's definition of the Greek word used for "prophet" in the NT. Especially item e -
of men filled with the Spirit of God, who by God's authority and command in words of weight pleads the cause of God and urges salvation of men
That's not describing new revelation - it's calling attention to existing revelation, pleading the cause of God, urging salvation of men.
quote:
what else do you think you can even identify a true prophet.
This has been explained over and over on these forums. A true prophet who is simply "pleading the cause" will not proclaim something inconsistent with scripture. One who predicts future events will, if truly prophesying from God, not be wrong in his prophecy. If it is not from God, it is from the flesh.
quote:
5. If you are willing to think even logically, you'll know how arrogant you are to say that prophets no longer exist.
Has anyone said for certain that prophets (as in the "pleading the case") no longer exist? What people have been saying is that prophets should be held to biblical standards.
quote:
Anyways, we shall meet when our Lord Jesus Christ comes. Just as Paul said, let our Lord be the judge, instead of a human pretenting to be in a judgement seat with his pride and arrogance.
Maybe it sounds like you are the one placing yourself in the judgement seat. You have claimed that those who disagree with you aren't thinking logically and are arrogant.
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RE: A question about OT prophets versus NT prophets - 1/15/2008 1:08:05 PM
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stateofgrace
Posts: 1993
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Here is another link to the bible study tools on this site - this time to the entry in Baker's Dictionary of Evangelical Theology for false prophets.
To summarize,
In the OT, a false prophet was a liar, their visions were "drawn out of their own hearts," some of them used the occult as a means to prophesy, they gave the people what they wanted to hear, they sought popular acclaim (and so on).
In the NT, 1 John 1:4 is cited as a reminder to test what we hear - " Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world." (NIV)
We are told in Revelation that in the end times, false prophets will even perform signs and wonders!
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RE: A question about OT prophets versus NT prophets - 7/12/2008 7:37:45 AM
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csl7037
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This quote below from Bob Jones brought me here and I found this old thread when I did a search. Interesting stuff.
However, he was quoted as saying that the general level of prophetic revelation in the movement's "prophets" had an accuracy level of about 65 percent. Some prophets were as low as 10 percent accurate, he said, with some of the "most mature" prophets having a rating "approaching 85 percent to 95 percent. "
My thinking is, if they're putting themselves in the office of prophet, they better be right! If you want to claim an OT role, you're going to be held to an OT standard. But looking at this old thread, I found this very interesting...
quote:
ORIGINAL: stateofgrace
Take a look at the Strong's definition of the Greek word used for "prophet" in the NT. Especially item e -
of men filled with the Spirit of God, who by God's authority and command in words of weight pleads the cause of God and urges salvation of men
That's not describing new revelation - it's calling attention to existing revelation, pleading the cause of God, urging salvation of men.
This has been explained over and over on these forums. A true prophet who is simply "pleading the cause" will not proclaim something inconsistent with scripture. One who predicts future events will, if truly prophesying from God, not be wrong in his prophecy. If it is not from God, it is from the flesh.
My problem is with those predicting future events. Do they have any business doing that? I believe in the gift of prophecy moving today but very differently than the Office of Prophet operated in the OT. It seems to be any time you hear one of these guys predicting the future, you can know right there that they're already off the reservation. I can't find an example of one of these that was accurate (unless it was absurdly vague to begin with, that's a nice trick if you can get away with it).
But, in my quote above from Bob Jones, why do they go to such lengths to justify when they're wrong instead of just admitting they aren't fortunetellers. It's bizarre to me. Partly, I think it's because people don't know any better and they know they wont really be "called" on their unfulfilled predictions. But it seems like there's more to it to me...why would they even go there? We see over and over again - moving in the prophetic (word of knowledge, word of wisdom for the moment, for a situation), moving in healing, evangelism, teaching, lifting up God is not good enough . . . it's when they feel the need to puff themselves up that they get out on these crazy limbs. But they've got the throngs of people who follow blindly as a nice safety net if they fall.
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RE: A question about OT prophets versus NT prophets - 7/16/2008 10:46:10 AM
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hellochurch
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Dear all, I found something that answers that, in the Book, where it describes what the purpose of those gifts and functions were, and so therefore we can judge how long they were to be in action by the description given of their function.
- - - - "The gifts that he gave were that some apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, some pastors and some teachers, to equip the saints for the work of ministry, for building up the body of christ, until all of us come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to the FULL STATURE OF CHRIST.
- -- -- -- -- Here is the answer from scripture HIMself, (..and the WORD was GOD.) how long should the gifts be in operation and manifested, including the new testament prophets, ...."UNTIL ALL ARE IN FULL unity of FAITH AND HAVE COME TO FULL STATURE." -(this wasn't a yell, it was just a way of marking out the importance of the last sentence. I dont know how to use colour underlining yet.), . . .
so are we all in unity of faith and in the full stature of Jesus Christ? no? not yet? well then, there should be apostles, prophets, teachers, evangelists, and pastors, who are equipping us, for the work of the minstry, notice!!!! it is not the 5 workers mentioned that are supposed to be doing the ministry,!!!! they are supposed to be equipping the rest of us to do the work of the ministry, the pastor is not the minister, those listening to the pastor are to be the ministers, you and me, .
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RE: A question about OT prophets versus NT prophets - 7/16/2008 11:10:22 AM
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hellochurch
Posts: 188
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dear earthless and all;
(how are you, earthless, set free from the bonds of the earthy natural nature, free to soar?)
----regarding prophets today, -(whom you will see that I have explained from the Book why I believe real prophets called by God are amoung us today, in my previous post of a couple minutes ago, which should be right above this one)
Let's look at Jonah for information about how a prophet functions even though he is o.t. and we are in n.t. and I think there is a distinction between the two, and I will explain why below, or in my next post.
/ / / /
JONAH: WAS A MAN WHO GOD CALLED TO SPEAK ON HIS BEHALF TO A GROUP OF PEOPLE THAT JONAH FELT WERE DISTASTEFUL, (IN THE VEGGIE TALES VERSION, THEY ARE DISCRIBED AS 'FISH SLAPPERS'- THEY SLAPPED EACH OTHER IN THE FACE WITH FISHES!)
However, in real life they were enemies of Israel and barbaric people who did atrocious things to those they caught in war, etc. maiming, etc. somewhat like the muslims who catch christians today.(some parts of our world) ...I believe they enjoyed torturing people, etc.
...Jonah seemed to think they did not deserve any chances and did not want to go and announce that they were about to receive judgement from God and that they should repent. Number one, I think he was worred about the cost of presenting such a statement to such a group, probably his own skin and maybe torture etc. or perhaps he just hoped they would get torched by the LORD because they deserved it and he didn't want them to escape that.
Anyway, God really called him, he really was a prophet, he really had a message straight from God, he gave the message, people believed him, and then. . . it looked like, for all intents and purposed, Jonah was a fraud, because NO DESTRUCTION CAME UPON THE NINEVITES. It looked like what Jonah had told them about their destruction was a complete farse and false because no destruction came at all.
......
This all happened because JOnah gave Gods message, the people believed it, they adhered to it and turned and repented, ... and then as a result, no destruction came up on them. But looking at it from a skeptics pov, it LOOKED LIKE JONAH WAS A LIAR.!!
GET IT?
Other Sim. things happen in the ministry of the prophet, some Words from the Lord are given to human beings and depend on their, the humans interaction with that word, #1 they have to have faith, when they hear it, mix what they hear with faith, they need to believe it, and then #2 they need to act on their faith, ie. if the hebrews received from God the word that they would have victory in battle, but then decided not to enter into the battle, they would have lost completely. The word required something from them, ie if they just sat back and thought ok, God said we are going to win in this situation, so therefore we will all sit outside our tents today and wait for our win. This would never have cut it, so to speak, they needed to act, go to battle, fight, in order to get what God had given them. It is the same for many things, ie. many believe oh if God said it He will do it, well no, not exactly, God always looks for a man on the earth, who will believe HIm, and work with HIm, and by man I mean ADAM themale and female ADAM, not just the male version of ADAM. Women are completely included in what God is doing on the earth, and are not left out in anyway, therefore there is not no more jew or greek, male or female, in CHRIST JESUS. ! LOVE to you all, smack! (that was a kiss, how di I use these little buttons kisses, colours, etc. no there is no kiss, I will have to use smacks.
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RE: A question about OT prophets versus NT prophets - 7/16/2008 12:18:54 PM
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hellochurch
Posts: 188
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Dear earthless and all, I do not know how I got three appearances of my name as viewing this thread, it says up above, that I am on this three times, unless I checked stay logged in for 24 hours, and then logged in again, and then again, which I did not do to my knowledge, I dont know,.
Also...is there a sp checker on this typing board? when I type I later notice if I am too fast, my correct sp. doesnt keep up with me either.
---RE: PROPHETS NOW AND PROPHETS THEN, IS THERE A DIFFERENCE?
I SAY YES.
----This is why, in the previous covenant or collection of revelation, (old testament)what the rabbis say was passed down from Adam, the annointings of the prophet, priest and king, were divided and given to three different men in the body of believers back then. The prophet was called by God to be the number one spokesman for God for the whole country, he had an office, and everything, that is the number one prophet, they also had schools of prophets, guys who were also called and functioned but, they were maybe sent out from the schools to the various places in Israel to operate there in the local setting.... But there was one main guy that spoke for God to the King, (if they had one at that time) (Remember God preferred to have no king, yet the people preferred to imitate those around them) God preferred to speak through the prophet like he did with Moses, where the prophet was the king as well, so to speak, and the prophet was the priest, who also did intercession for the people when they sinned, like ie Moses, I think Moses would be a good example of the o.t. prophet, priest and king, all in one package. At Moses's time there were not other schooled prophets, ie. like a school of the prophets like when ELijah was on the earth, Elisha talked to the guys in the school, andt they also knew the mind of the Lord, etc. about things, and knew things supernaturally, so even back then, tho there were head prophet guys, there were also lesser level guys in the prophetic.
------this is as it is today, there are lesser level guys, prophets, maybe some in every body of believers who function in the gifts of the prophet, for that local body, but becausee of disobedience, etc. some bodies will have no prophets, maybe for the simple reason God told some to move there and go to church there and they won't or don't whatever, but I believe every group has been sent some by God if they are not already in that group, or maybe God is growing them up in the group, but because of the opinions of men, ie no prophets today, they are not taken seriously, or are wounded etc. and thought of as strange, etc. and not listened to or whatever,...
Anyway, different rules for prophets today, yes. Death to prophets for getting a word wrong? No i do not believe it applies today, definitely not, and not even in the beginning of the new testament. (Do you want to be put to death any time you sin?)
Why? yes grace, sin in that area, like sin in the area you may have sinned in today or yesterday, is no diff. to God I do not believe. Especially a young prophet, esp. in our today's church and culture where no one hardly believes they exist, so hardly any training available etc. no schools hardly at all from older prophets to teach them etc. so I believe God would give them the same grace he gives the average believer on their sins.
NOw if someone knowingly deliberately lies, that would be different, just like wilful sin, wilful sin, including the prophet who might deliberately willfully make up something for their own personal glory, human applause, etc. and it not be from the Lord, and it is not an honest mistake, I believe God will correct that sin with a spank, like he will correct you in areas that you know better in, but are still persisting in a headstrong manner. Like any good parent, you would correct your child, and so it is with our Father, he will correct us, depending on the degree of what we are doing.
----- Now, there are reasons that prophets appear to be wrong, when they are not, in the areas of judgement for example, often like Jonah's example, God sends prophets to judge people, even nations, cities, etc. This will usually be a higher level prophet, someone whom God has trained up over time, who is obedient etc. whom God can trust. (LOok at Moses for example, He disobeyed, even after decades of training, these are things God has to put up with as well as the listeners to these propehts,. Moses struck the rock in anger, this was the wrong image, it was not from God, that was created by his action, and it cost Moses, because he was operating as Gods only spokesman to millions of peoples, I think they were millions back then.)
The higher the level of prophet, the more opportunity there is for judgement from God, correction to occur that is unpleasant, if it is direct disobedience, which in Moses ' case it was. ie. there could be death given as a sentence by God for a sever reason to a prophet, like occured in the o.t. to the younger prophet who listened to anotehr propeht instead of to God, ie. God told him dont eat, dont go back this way, and dont talk to anyone and another propeht came along and told him the Lord changed his mind and gave him this message., etc. which was the opposite, that guy died.
Annanias and Saphira also died for directly lying, and this I presume was in an atmosphere of holiness that the state of the church was in with the presence of God manifesting all the time amoung them. so touching the Holiness of God with lies, is a dangerous thing. even in the new testament.
I believe this judgement was performed by Paul in the power of the Holy SPirit and it was his judgement on the situation, not necessarily the LORD.s.
God is revealed as so much the parent, so loving in how he deals with his kids, so I am sure that situation was more Paul, than God's nature. God is all about redemption, ie. coming as Jesus and taking the sins of the people on himself, can you imagine that? out of LOVE, where as Paul, as human, was still falling far sort of what Jesus was like. USually with God judgmenet is a long time coming and there are plenty of warnings to us to change, we do not know what transpired in the previous dealings in the church with these people. They may have even been false believers, faking everything entirely, like the warning of taking the emblems of the communion, some people drink the cup and take the bread without being really born again and apparently there is a death sentence for this action.
----
anyway, God as parent, and as Master of the Prophets will be teaching them from him, and asking them to speak things, and they may make mistakes, and even hear what God says wrong, or interpret it wrong, these are the growing pains of the prophets, I am sure Elijah and Moses had them, with Moses we see his mistakes, ie hitting the rock in anger, this cost God his image, Moses presented a wrong image of God to the people, this happens a lot today in the pupit, men presenting an image of God that is not accurate, God has to handle that, it is all sin, yet they are not struck dead, as yet, that we know of,
sp I do not believe God would give a death sentence to a prophet who was learning, if they made honest mistakes.
This is diff. than someone deliberately lying and knowing the diff. yet making up stuff for their own glory and to be noticed, and it not be from God, and as well, God says many times some prophets have spoken and He did not send them and they know so, and are bent on doing it anyway, and this was receive judgement, I think it depends on the heart of the prophet and his relationship to God, is he in Love with the Lord, is he giving his all and still messing up, this is different than someone who knws God never told them a thing and are making up things to fit iwth some political or other christian agenda for manipulation purposes, and I think it would have to be that they were doing it after many times of God slapping their hands, then perhpas death might come as a final judgement. from the Lord, or someone with the power and authority of God, given them by him can act as a man, with the judgemnet occurring within the mind of the man, and it not be God's judgement but because the LORD has entrusted that man with divine authority and power, that man can exercise judgment and may cause the death of someone, outside of it being Gods direct intervention. God entrusts things to some people, by 'man' I am meaning mankind, including females by the way.
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RE: A question about OT prophets versus NT prophets - 7/16/2008 1:48:49 PM
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hellochurch
Posts: 188
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dear Earthless;
"re making up of gifts" but before that point, I need to know re your name and picture, under which it says from where barbque pidgeons roast, I am just curious what that is about, it is something from something, and I am very interested in symbols, etc. and why this is associated with your name, et.c --also please tell me where the spell checker is on the reply board, as I really need it,
-----making up gifts is not what Paul wrote, and he himself said that he spoke in tongues, diff. languages that the HOly Spirit gave utterance to, himself, more than all of them, I think he was addressing order in the services, and notice the other instruction, all of them "could prophesy" he confirmed that he thought they all could prophesy, which means that Paul understood that gift in this way, that all could give messages or revelation about the scripture meaning or direct messages from the Holy SPirit in words taht He wanted to say to the church, so all the whole church could speak in diff. languages they had not learned under the directio of and influence of the Holy Spirit and all of them could also prophesy, but BUT what he found out of place was that they should do it individually, and the tongues which were diff. languages saying things the Holy Spirit was saying, was ok, but because of people coming in amounst them, for those people's sake, Paul preferred to have the people move in prophesy only in the language that they all spoke, so that people coming in not yet believers, could hear things being revealed, ie. hear their own secrets of their own hearts being spoken out loud in a language that they could comprehend, Paul said this is more productive, even though both were avaialble to the hcurhc to do, and for clarity sake, each one talk in turn, ie. meswsages to the church could be given aloud while the next person waited, etc. and all give their message of revelation ,etc. in order, so that each could be hearda nd the newcomers could understand in their own spoken language.
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RE: A question about OT prophets versus NT prophets - 7/16/2008 2:33:04 PM
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earthless
Posts: 6132
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: where pigeons are wearing sweaters....
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quote:
ORIGINAL: hellochurch
dear Earthless;
"re making up of gifts" but before that point, I need to know re your name and picture, under which it says from where barbque pidgeons roast, I am just curious what that is about, it is something from something, and I am very interested in symbols, etc. and why this is associated with your name, et.c --also please tell me where the spell checker is on the reply board, as I really need it,
Sorry, but what are you asking? About my avatar and or about my location? By "symbol" do you mean my self-portrait avatar? It's just an avatar.. used by any and all message boards. Please let me know what your questions are, I would be more than happy to answer them.
_____________________________
Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: A question about OT prophets versus NT prophets - 7/16/2008 2:43:21 PM
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hellochurch
Posts: 188
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reply to State of Grace, re prophets, I agree with the person who said that the fact that the test exists for the false prophets, proves that true prophets were also existing. Otherwise there would be no test for prophets. This is great wisdom. As soon as a prophet emerged, right away it would be know they were false no test would be required, what?! a prophet,!? we know you no longer exist so therefore you are false right off the bat, we do not need a test.----The fact that a test was needed proved the fact that real true prophets existed and could be extinquished from false ones.
- - - - please note, the scripture you quoted about the end times, miracles, signs and wonders, - these words and this very phrase are also used to describe what Jesus sent out the original 12 to do and then Jesus said the original 12 were to teach others to do the very same that Jesus taught them, ie to do miracles, signs and wonders. The fact that there are people today in our world doing miracles signs and wonders, does not make them false, but it does make false all those who claim Jesus and are not doing miracles signs and wonders. these people are spoken of in the bible as those who are saying they believe the Truth, but are denying the power, Denying The Power. They are adhering to a form of godliness, but denying that the power The Power, Denying HIM by saying what he told the original 12 to teach all others after them to do, they deny that this is what Jesus tol d us to do, they are denying that this is for today, they are making Jesus and connection to him powerless, and fruitless, and without any supernatural activity, they are making him natural, common and powerless. His power, his miracles, his might, his saving ability was only for times gone by, they are denying that Jesus told his 12 make disciples of all nations TEACHING THEM TO DO EXACTLY EXACTLY E X A C T L Y AS I HAVE TAUGHT YOU, Did Jesus build a bible schoool, did he raise funds, did he make a pulpit and stand behind it every sunday, saying nice things about what is written in the book, NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO HE WENT OUT EVERYWHERE HEALING, CASTING OUT DEMONS, RAISING THE DEAD, AND TELLING EVERYONE ALL ABOUT THE WONDERFUL GOOD NEWS OF THE KINGDOM, PREACHING THE ACCEPTABLE YEAR OF THE LORD THAT JESUS CAME TO USHE IN TO MAKE EVERY YEAR, WHICH IS SUPERNATUAL CANCELLATION OF FINANCIAL LOSSES SO THAT EVEN PROPERTY OF YOURS THAT FELL OUT OF YOUR FAMILY'S HANDS WOULD BE RETURNED TO YOU, ETC. IT WAS THE YEAR OF JUBILEE,THe year of supernatural blessing that became always because of Jesus, and what he did for us. He never said, build seminaries and make it your lifelong study to kinow the scriptures inside and out, he said, take more people like I did, teach and train them, show them how to operate supernatrually and then tell them to do what I did, feed people miraculously, do wild thingst hat no one even heard of before, like speak new eyeballs into existence for those who dont have any, these are the works fo God that Jesus did and that he reqjuires of us, not just the origianl 12 but the 12 today, here, there and everywherer everywhere there is a 12 in this webblog, there is a 12 that God wants this kind of superntaural work out of today, not yestereday, today and every day, not just then, but all nations, go and teach E X A C T LY AS I HAVE TAUGHT AND SHOWN YOU, TAKE MENA DN WOMEN AND TEACH AND SHOW EXACTLY AS YOU LEARNED AND THEN SEND THEM OUT, THE SENDING OF WHICH MEANS APOSTLED OUT, SENT OUT UNDER THE AUTHORITY OF MY NAME, I GIVE YOU MY NAME, MY AUTHORIITY, MY POWER, TO DO THESE THINGS, BY WHAT POWER DO YOU DO THESE THINGS, BY THE POWER OF JESUS, BY THE POWER IN HIS NEW NAME, THE NAME HIS FATEHR GAVE HIM, HIS FATHER GAVE HIM THE NAME THAT IS ABOVE ALL NAMES, DO YOU KNOW WHAT IT IS,? IT IS YUD HEY VAV HEY, DADDY'S NAME, JESUS RECEIVED IT, FOR HIS OBEDIENCE AND FOR WHAT HE ACCOMPLISHED, SO THAT NOW, AT THE NAME OF JESUS, EVERY KNEWW WILL BOW AND EVERY TONGUYE WILL CONFESS THAT JESUS IS L O R D , WHICH IN THE ORIGINAL TEXT MEANS, HE HAS BEEN GIVEN THE NAME OF HIS FATHER, AS A REWARD FOR WHAT HE DID, BECAUSE L O R D WAS ONLY TRANSLATED IN THE KJV WHEN IT MEANT YHVH. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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RE: A question about OT prophets versus NT prophets - 7/16/2008 2:52:38 PM
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hellochurch
Posts: 188
Joined: 7/15/2008
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REPLY TO DEAR EARTHLESS, UNDER YOUR AVATAR, IS LISTED POSTS, 4946, JOINED 4/11/2005
FROM: ..'WHERE BBQ PIGEONS ROAST' - ? WHAT IS THE MEANING OF WHERE YOU ARE FROM, "WHERE BBQ PIGEONS ROAST?"
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RE: A question about OT prophets versus NT prophets - 7/16/2008 3:05:48 PM
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earthless
Posts: 6132
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: where pigeons are wearing sweaters....
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: hellochurch
REPLY TO DEAR EARTHLESS, UNDER YOUR AVATAR, IS LISTED POSTS, 4946, JOINED 4/11/2005
FROM: ..'WHERE BBQ PIGEONS ROAST' - ? WHAT IS THE MEANING OF WHERE YOU ARE FROM, "WHERE BBQ PIGEONS ROAST?"
Ah, I see. The meaning of "Where BBQ Pigeons roast" is just a word play about living in a large city where it is hot (as it is summer) and the homeless roast pigeons with BBQ sauce from their local rib joint.
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Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: A question about OT prophets versus NT prophets - 7/16/2008 9:00:18 PM
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prophet
Posts: 526
Joined: 4/19/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: cammo2006
hellochurch: can I suggest you break up your posts into paragraphs? It would make them far more readable.
Just humbly suggesting. 
Hear! Hear!
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Create in me a Clean Heart, O Lord.
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RE: A question about OT prophets versus NT prophets - 7/16/2008 9:32:21 PM
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OleFitzHi
Posts: 57
Joined: 6/26/2006
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quote:
ORIGINAL: BlackSabbath
Hi everybody. In all the years I was in the Pentecostal/charismatic church, I was taught this rather strange doctrine, IMO, that a genuine OT prophet was 100 % correct in his prophecies, but a genuine NT prophet is not necessarily 100% correct.
How on earth is this bizarre doctrine justifed is beyond me, but it had something to do with the OT prophet being under the law, whilst the NT prophet was under grace. Whoopee I say. Big deal. It's the same Holy Spirit that uttered prophecies whether in the OT or NT. I don't see how the Holy Spirit can get it wrong now sometimes because we're in the era of grace.
Personally, I think it's all baloney so that every man and his dog could make outlandish "propehecies" that didn't have to be accountable by any test. I'm sorry if I'm coming across cynical, but that's the way I see it. I think it's ridiculous that a real prophet can get it wrong. I think it's just a con job for people to proclaim themselves "prophets" without meeting the test.
If someone could clarify this bizarre doctrine for me, I'd greatly appreciate it.
[edited by moderator]
Let me try an explanation. The OT term "prophet" roughly compares to the NT term "apostle." In the OT, prophets were moved by God to speak in the name of God. They would say, "The Lord says..." or "Thus saith the Lord..." or something like that in their own language. Then whatever came forth was THE words of God. In the NT, the "apostles" had authority to write Scripture, which are THE words of God.
There are no apostles like there were in that day. Therefore no one has authority to write Scripture. No feeling or intuition or thought that may or may not be led by the Holy Spirit should be given equal weight with Scripture.
In his letter to the Corinthians, Paul was probably referring to something different from OT prophecy. I would say that NT prophecy is something entirely different from OT prophecy. Many of us have all felt leadings of the Holy Spirit. If these leadings were made known to a congregation, Paul would probably call this prophecy. Many people in the church at Corinth had this gift of prophecy, so much so that Paul attempted to regulate it. Some were told to wait. Some were told to keep silent. This is not the same thing as OT prophecy. Paul would never tell an OT prophet to remain silent.
Any comments on this?
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RE: A question about OT prophets versus NT prophets - 7/16/2008 10:19:34 PM
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prophet
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OT prophets were foundational because they write the dictations of God for the coming of the messian and His kingdom. Its all done. NT prophets is to administer what has already been revealed, nomore revelations as the messiah has come.
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Create in me a Clean Heart, O Lord.
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RE: A question about OT prophets versus NT prophets - 7/16/2008 11:20:24 PM
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LawrenceJCaldwell
Posts: 33
Joined: 7/3/2008
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Please consider this portion from my upcoming book, Christian Mythology regarding this question specifically and also the many posts to it that are utterly lacking in Scripture.
"In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth by speaking them into existence. In the end, God will destroy the wicked by speaking them into eternal death and hell. By the sword in His mouth He also works | | |
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