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What are tests by Scripture for false prophets? - 12/24/2007 1:23:11 AM
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cybrjewls
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I would like someone to help me understand what tests are necessary in determining if a prophet is false. Please explain with Scripture.
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RE: What are tests by Scripture for false prophets? - 12/24/2007 2:21:00 AM
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sue244
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Thats easy a failed prophecy.
Deu. 18:20-22
20But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die.
21And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the LORD hath not spoken?
22When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.
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RE: What are tests by Scripture for false prophets? - 12/24/2007 3:25:29 AM
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cybrjewls
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quote:
ORIGINAL: sue244
Thats easy a failed prophecy.
Deu. 18:20-22
20But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die.
21And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the LORD hath not spoken?
22When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.
Greetings sue! Thank you for your response. I would like to understand, then, more about this. Where does it say 'false' prophet here?
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RE: What are tests by Scripture for false prophets? - 12/24/2007 7:05:29 AM
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BlackSabbath
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quote:
ORIGINAL: sue244
Thats easy a failed prophecy.
Deu. 18:20-22
20But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die.
21And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the LORD hath not spoken?
22When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.
Unfortunately, it's not as easy as you seem to think, according to some.
I don't know what church you go to or have been to, but in all the years of the Pentecostal/charismatic churches I went to for over a decade, I heard the same theology put forth over prophets. And it is this. That the OT prophets were 100% reliable, and you could test them by the accuracy of their prophecies.
But not apparently the NT prophets. This doctrine says that because we now live in the era of grace, as opposed to the law, genuine prophets of God can make mistakes in prophecy. I still don't get it how the old versus new covenant changes anything, after all, it's still the same Holy Spirit that prophecies are uttered through.
So there you go. Ask a Pentecostal, and they'll tell you that NT prophets aren't 100% accurate.
Personally, I think it's a lot of made up rubbish by church leaders. For the simple reason so that people can "prophesy" left right and centre and not be held accountable for their pathetic, err, prophetic utterances.
But that's just me.
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RE: What are tests by Scripture for false prophets? - 12/24/2007 7:57:16 AM
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earthless
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Tests For False Prophets
The Bible gives us two tests for detecting false prophets.
And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the LORD hath not spoken? When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.
Deuteronomy 18:21-22
The first test for a false prophet is his accuracy. True prophets were 100% accurate. Not 95% or even 99%, but 100%. True prophets were controlled by God, so they never missed. If a prophet missed even one time, that "prophet" was a "false prophet".
Those who claim to be prophets today miss all the time. The amazing thing, however, is that even though they predict things that do not come to pass, they do not lose their following.
In the Old Testament they would have lost their life. God so despised false prophets that in the verse prior to our last text, He instituted the death penalty for them.
But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die.
Deuteronomy 18:20
There is a second test for false prophets.
If there arise among you a prophet, or a dreamer of dreams, and giveth thee a sign or a wonder, And the sign or the wonder come to pass, whereof he spake unto thee, saying, Let us go after other gods, which thou hast not known, and let us serve them; Thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams: for the LORD your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul.
Deuteronomy 13:1-3
In this case, what the false prophet predicts comes to pass, but he is still a false prophet. God will sometimes allow this to test people to see if they love him with all their heart. The test this time is in the message the prophet gives.
Does it line up with scripture? Does it lead us into truth and following the God of the Bible? Or does it lead us into following after a false god or into ERROR.
Some of the greatest doctrinal heresy today comes from the mouths of those who claim to be prophets.
We test these so-called prophets by examining whether or not what they teach lines up with the Bible.
Beloved, believe not every spirit, but test the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world
1 John 4:1
It is the doctrine that is taught that is the test of the spirit behind the prophet. The Bible warns us that in the last days, many shall be deceived by evil spirits.
Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
1 Timothy 4:1
So then, there are two tests for false prophets. First, a prophet has to be 100% accurate. If they miss even once they are a false prophet. Secondly, a prophet must speak according to sound doctrine.
Their message may not contain doctrinal error. It must lead people in the way of truth and after the true God of the Bible.
We are instructed in 2 Peter and Jude to avoid false doctrine by RECALLING the teachings of the Apostles already established:
2 Peter 1:12 "So I will always remind you of these things, even though you know them and ARE FIRMLY ESTABLISHED in the truth YOU NOW HAVE. . . . And I will make every effort to see that after my departure (death) you will always be able to remember these things."
We are warned about false teachers and prophets in the last days:
2 Peter 2:1 "But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you."
2 Peter 3:2 "I want you to recall the words spoken in the PAST by the holy prophets and the command given by our Lord and Savior through your apostles."
2 Peter 3:16 "His (Paul's) letter contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other scriptures, to their own destruction."
Jude 3-4 "I felt I had to write and urge you to CONTEND )earnestly struggle) for the faith that was ****ONCE FOR ALL*** entrusted to the saints. For certain men whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are godless men, who change the grace of our God into a license for immorality and deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord."
Please notice that Peter and Jude did not say we are to listen to the apostles and prophets living in OUR day but rely on the apostles and prophets in THEIR DAY, and we are instead to BEWARE of the apostles and prophets of OUR day.
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RE: What are tests by Scripture for false prophets? - 12/24/2007 9:43:29 AM
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cybrjewls
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Dear Earthless, Are there other tests that we are given for the New Covenant on prophets, or are we to judge them as though we are under Law?
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RE: What are tests by Scripture for false prophets? - 12/24/2007 9:52:08 AM
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ManimalX
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Also, keep in mind that when many Christians say 'prophecy', they are referring only to speaking out or teaching God's already revealed word.
I have also heard other definitions. I suppose what we need here is agreement on the question, "What is prophecy?"
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RE: What are tests by Scripture for false prophets? - 12/24/2007 9:56:23 AM
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earthless
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quote:
ORIGINAL: prophetica
Dear Earthless, Are there other tests that we are given for the New Covenant on prophets, or are we to judge them as though we are under Law?
God gave us the tests for prophets, period. Warnings and such that are confirmed by Jesus and the apostles in the New Testament.
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RE: What are tests by Scripture for false prophets? - 12/24/2007 10:11:11 AM
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earthless
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quote:
ORIGINAL: BlackSabbath
quote:
ORIGINAL: sue244
Thats easy a failed prophecy.
Deu. 18:20-22
20But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die.
21And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the LORD hath not spoken?
22When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.
Unfortunately, it's not as easy as you seem to think, according to some.
I don't know what church you go to or have been to, but in all the years of the Pentecostal/charismatic churches I went to for over a decade, I heard the same theology put forth over prophets. And it is this. That the OT prophets were 100% reliable, and you could test them by the accuracy of their prophecies.
But not apparently the NT prophets. This doctrine says that because we now live in the era of grace, as opposed to the law, genuine prophets of God can make mistakes in prophecy. I still don't get it how the old versus new covenant changes anything, after all, it's still the same Holy Spirit that prophecies are uttered through.
So there you go. Ask a Pentecostal, and they'll tell you that NT prophets aren't 100% accurate.
Personally, I think it's a lot of made up rubbish by church leaders. For the simple reason so that people can "prophesy" left right and centre and not be held accountable for their pathetic, err, prophetic utterances.
But that's just me.
You make some really good points here. And perhaps it is where the thread opener is coming from.
It's a bit disconcerting to see how their position on prophecy forces one to start weakening the claims of truth throughout Scripture.
Jesus' command concerning fruit can't be set at odds with accuracy and truth, since Scripture tells us that "the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness, righteousness, and truth" (Ephesians 5:9).
They speak of an "infallible Bible," yet if even the "strict" Old Covenant prophets could speak falsely, then any kind of infallibility is out the window, and the Gospel itself is in question (and no amount of equally fallible "leading of the Spirit" will rescue the situation).
I can't help but worry about the consequences - long term consequences - that this sort of conclusion will have on the sheep.
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RE: What are tests by Scripture for false prophets? - 12/24/2007 11:00:22 AM
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cybrjewls
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Dear earthless, Again where in the Law does it say 'false'? It says, In My Name! Therefore, the teaching applies for fulfillment of what Moses said: The Lord will raise up a prophet from among you like me, you must listen.... We remember that Moses had to die because of disobedience to a prophetic Word. Is Moses 'false', then?
quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
quote:
ORIGINAL: BlackSabbath
quote:
ORIGINAL: sue244
Thats easy a failed prophecy.
Deu. 18:20-22
20But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die.
21And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the LORD hath not spoken?
22When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.
Unfortunately, it's not as easy as you seem to think, according to some.
I don't know what church you go to or have been to, but in all the years of the Pentecostal/charismatic churches I went to for over a decade, I heard the same theology put forth over prophets. And it is this. That the OT prophets were 100% reliable, and you could test them by the accuracy of their prophecies.
But not apparently the NT prophets. This doctrine says that because we now live in the era of grace, as opposed to the law, genuine prophets of God can make mistakes in prophecy. I still don't get it how the old versus new covenant changes anything, after all, it's still the same Holy Spirit that prophecies are uttered through.
So there you go. Ask a Pentecostal, and they'll tell you that NT prophets aren't 100% accurate.
Personally, I think it's a lot of made up rubbish by church leaders. For the simple reason so that people can "prophesy" left right and centre and not be held accountable for their pathetic, err, prophetic utterances.
But that's just me.
You make some really good points here. And perhaps it is where the thread opener is coming from.
It's a bit disconcerting to see how their position on prophecy forces one to start weakening the claims of truth throughout Scripture.
Jesus' command concerning fruit can't be set at odds with accuracy and truth, since Scripture tells us that "the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness, righteousness, and truth" (Ephesians 5:9).
They speak of an "infallible Bible," yet if even the "strict" Old Covenant prophets could speak falsely, then any kind of infallibility is out the window, and the Gospel itself is in question (and no amount of equally fallible "leading of the Spirit" will rescue the situation).
I can't help but worry about the consequences - long term consequences - that this sort of conclusion will have on the sheep.
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RE: What are tests by Scripture for false prophets? - 12/24/2007 11:09:30 AM
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earthless
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Prophetica,
Why do you seem to have a hard time with understanding the Scripture and context we have provided? Please reread the posts in this thread.
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RE: What are tests by Scripture for false prophets? - 12/24/2007 11:22:09 AM
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cybrjewls
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Dear earthless, I want to learn from you too. Please tell me what Jesus said. That is The Testimony of Lord Jesus.
quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
Prophetica,
Why do you seem to have a hard time with understanding the Scripture and context we have provided? Please reread the posts in this thread.
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RE: What are tests by Scripture for false prophets? - 12/24/2007 11:34:16 AM
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earthless
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quote:
ORIGINAL: prophetica
Dear earthless, I want to learn from you too. Please tell me what Jesus said. That is The Testimony of Lord Jesus.
What Jesus said regarding false prophets?
Ok.
Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. (16) You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thorn bushes or figs from thistles? (17) Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. (18) A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. (19) Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. (20) Therefore by their fruits you will know them. Matthew 7:15-20
In this text Jesus issues a serious warning to beware of false prophets. Sadly this warning is more needed today than ever before! Jesus said in Matthew 24:11 & 24 that in the last days there would be more and more false prophets.
The apostle Paul warned the elders of the church of Ephesus in Acts 20:28-31 to be on guard because after his departure “salvage wolves” would come among them not sparing the flock. A few years later the apostle Peter warns in 2 Peter 2:1-3,
But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord who bought them, and bring on themselves swift destruction. (2) And many will follow their destructive ways, because of whom the way of truth will be blasphemed. (3) By covetousness they will exploit you with deceptive words; for a long time their judgment has not been idle, and their destruction does not slumber.
The apostle John likewise warns at the end of the 1st century in 1 John 4:1-3,
Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world. (2) By this you know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God, (3) and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world.
What Jesus, Paul, and Peter warned of, John declared had already occurred before the end of the 1st century! How much more are John’s words that “many false prophets have gone out into the world” true today!
Therefore we all have a special responsibility to resound the warning first made by Jesus in Matthew 7:15-20.
In 1 Corinthians 11:13-15 the apostle Paul describes those who preach another Jesus as:
For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. (14) And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. (15) Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.
These false apostles have preached words that lead to damnation and that’s exactly what their destiny shall be. Peter says in 2 Peter 3:16 that those who twist Scripture do so “to their own destruction.”
James warns in the first verse of the third chapter of his epistle, “My brethren, let not many of you become teachers, knowing that we shall receive a stricter judgment.”
The warning is clear: Don’t be a false teacher and don’t associate with them, lest you share in their destructive destiny.
The reason that this matters so much is that there is a true gospel about the True Prophet.
Moses prophesied that a Prophet greater than he would come (Deutronomy 18:15) and the apostle Peter declared Jesus to be that Prophet (Acts 3).
Therefore the existence of false prophets is an attack upon Him! All messages of hope of deliverance apart from faith in Christ are all false gospels of a false salvation declared by false prophets. Forsake whatever it is that you are clinging to and run to Jesus. Flee the wrath to come.
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RE: What are tests by Scripture for false prophets? - 1/14/2008 3:44:32 PM
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blue1914
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One thing I find very interesting after seeing this and related topics for several weeks on this board is this. Those who believe charismatic gifts to have ceased in operation (or by and large been diminished to a great extent in occurrance and frequency) use the Word of God on both sides of the argument-i.e., if someone points out that they personally have experienced a prophecy which came to be, the response is that "truth of a prophecy is not sufficient proof that it is indeed a prophecy".
Conversly, these same folks tend to point to how important it is for a prophecy to be completely true to be considered to be of God. I guess for me, I wonder, which one is it (for those who feel this way)?
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RE: What are tests by Scripture for false prophets? - 1/14/2008 3:59:35 PM
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stateofgrace
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quote:
ORIGINAL: blue1914
One thing I find very interesting after seeing this and related topics for several weeks on this board is this. Those who believe charismatic gifts to have ceased in operation (or by and large been diminished to a great extent in occurrance and frequency) use the Word of God on both sides of the argument...
Many of the people posting here that believe there are false prophets today are pentecostal or charismatic.
quote:
-i.e., if someone points out that they personally have experienced a prophecy which came to be, the response is that "truth of a prophecy is not sufficient proof that it is indeed a prophecy".
Conversly, these same folks tend to point to how important it is for a prophecy to be completely true to be considered to be of God. I guess for me, I wonder, which one is it (for those who feel this way)?
I'm not sure I've seen the first statement on here. However, these statements don't have to be mutually exclusive.
If one believes that a true prophet, defined by the bible, will have true prophecy, than if the prophet is only true 30% of the time (for example), the so-called prophet would still be a false prophet.
Considering some of the vague "prophecies" on sites like Elijah list, I'm sure someone can go back and attempt to line up real-life events with the 'prophecy." Folks have been doing this for years with non-Christian sources as well, like Nostradamus. Even if someone totally made up "prophecy" simply by studying the style of "prophecies" on the Elijah list and observing the state of the world, they'd likely be "correct" in their "prophecy" some percentage of the time.
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RE: What are tests by Scripture for false prophets? - 1/14/2008 8:35:40 PM
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rapturefish
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If 100% right is the test benchmark, then why does Paul give guidelines to weigh what is said by prophetic word or other supernatural means in 1 Corinthians 14? The argument is that there are different types of prophecy, one that ends up being scripture, and other kinds that are for encourgement or for individuals and do not add any new teaching.
Interestingly, Paul says in the same chapter that if anyone thinks differently to the guidelines he put out, note that what was stipulated is the Lord's command. That means the prophets of the Corinthians church didn't have the kind of authority or knowledge that Paul had, which as an apostle had authority in what he wrote as passed to him from the Lord. It meant the nature of the words given by the prophets in the church were not scripture-level words that gave new teaching.
The prophecy by Agabus was not the kind that added new teaching, and does not equate with revelatory prophecy of the kind that you find in the prophets writings. But it applied only to Paul. You find other prophetic words given to individuals in OT narrative that also do not add any new teaching.
People confuse the two today, and think that just because people claim to be prophets today that they are false because you can't add anything to scripture. Yes, you can't the canon is complete, but according to 1 Corinthians 14 people are prophetic today in the NT age and their words do need to be weighed up. That means that prophecy is for today, and that the role of prophecy falls into the second type, that of encouragement, or guidance, or for individuals, but not adding anything new in terms of teaching. Rather it is always in line with what is already in scripture.
If it is predictive prophecy, then if it comes true then it might be valid. If it isn't though, I wouldn't be stoning people today. People do hear wrong, sincerely, and that is why you need accountability in the congregation. I think the benchmark should be, is the thing spoken in line with God's Word and character? In 1 Corinthians, no weighing needs to be done in the congregation when a word is given. You would wait for things to happen. But not all prophecies are predictive, some are encouragements similar to a scripture being given to you from the bible or a friend at the right time, there is no prediction involved.
If someone tries to add new teaching in prophecy though I would have my red flags up pretty fast. And if a word sounds right but is in the wrong spirit or causes a wrong spirit then I would be sceptical.
I don't have all the answers, but that is my understanding after looking at it personally from Pentecostal and Protestant viewpoints.
< Message edited by rapturefish -- 1/14/2008 8:45:36 PM >
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RE: What are tests by Scripture for false prophets? - 1/15/2008 12:57:49 PM
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blue1914
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quote:
ORIGINAL: stateofgrace
Many of the people posting here that believe there are false prophets today are pentecostal or charismatic.
That's why I addressed my message the way I did - false prophecy aside, I was speaking to those who believe that prophecy in general is a sham and that there are no real prophets today because there is no gift of prophecy extant and operating today (or that it is operating at a very limited level such that there are so few who operate in the gift that it's unlikely that any Christian today has ever met one).
quote:
ORIGINAL: stateofgrace
I'm not sure I've seen the first statement on here. However, these statements don't have to be mutually exclusive.
Actually, I've of | | |
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