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RE: Keep The Law? - One Stop Thread - 5/6/2008 8:30:19 PM
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gmc4Jesus
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Isn't it interesting that in our attempt to be right with God and discern how the Old Testament 613 Laws (including the Ten Commandments) relates to Christians today, we often end up making more laws and rules just to press our view into the picture.
Many Scriptures have already been shared. Therefore, I'll only address summaries and not repeat what has been said.
1. The New Testament replaced the Old Testament. The Old Law was a law of do's and don'ts. There was no salvation under that convenant. The New Law is a law of salvation by grace through faith in Jesus Christ and His sacrifice on the cross for our sins.
2. The Old Testament consisted of 613 Laws. (Paul warns us that if we are going to keep some, we must keep all.) The New Testament is based on the Great Commandments to love God and love people.
3. Salvation is based on the New Testament, not the Old.
Although there are many good laws in the Old Covenant, and a good portion of the Old Covenant applies to our Christian walk, including most of the Ten Commandments (Keeping the Sabbath has definitely been replaced by example, if not instruction, by the Lord's Day (the first day of the week).
I would encourage you, regardless of your views of the Old Law to focus on keeping the Great Commandments and remembering that your salvation is based on who Jesus is in your life and what He did for you. It is not based on whether you keep a bunch of laws.
God bless you as you continue getting to know Jesus.
_____________________________
Let's talk about Jesus, His life and teachings at the www.gettingtoknowjesus.org Gospel Study Forum.
Home of "Getting To Know Jesus", a complete Bible study on the life and teachings of Jesus.
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RE: Keep The Law? - One Stop Thread - 5/7/2008 9:28:36 AM
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SpongeBlog
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In Romans 7, the context of the passage is established as the Mosaic law (not the Rabbinical) through Paul's use of the law of marriage. By verse 6, he says this:
"... by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code." (Romans 7:6)
Now the argument goes that this means we now keep the written code in the new way of the Spirit, not the old way of our flesh. But Paul doesn't say that. He is clearly contrasting serving God through the literal law (written code) and serving God through the new way of the Spirit.
If the old way of serving Him was to be understood as the power of our flesh why didn't he say that? Is Paul saying we no longer serve God in the old way of the flesh, or is he saying we no longer serve God in the old way of the written code? If he meant flesh, he would have said so. And the use of 'written code' ('letter' of the law) instead of 'law' makes the point of this being about the literal law, not the intent and purpose of the law, which Paul says in Romans 3 we uphold firmly.
You can still fulfill the requirements of the law without keeping the letter of the law. That's the stumbling block for literal law keepers. If it is true that only the literal fulfillment of the law counts, then we are all still in our sins. And for those who are uncircumcised, you are still uncircumcised and not included in the promises. We all know and agree that animal sacrifice and circumcision, both absolutely required under the literal law, find their satisfactory and acceptable fulfillment in the death of Christ and circumcision of the heart by the Holy Spirit, respectively.
These are two clear examples in scripture that we can all agree on that set the precedent for legitimately fulfilling the law in a new spiritual way, not the old literal way, and still be found in compliance with the requirements of the law. And this new way fulfills it in an infinately more important and pleasing way. So much so that it is not even necessary, according to God, to mimick the spiritual with the literal.
Not keeping the literal requirements of the law does not mean you are not upholding the law as long as you 'keep' the law in the new way that God says fulfills the requirements of the law. This new way is the worship that God requires above and beyond, and often in place of, the literal. We who have the Spirit and are circumcised in heart are the one's who worship in 'Spirit and in Truth'. The kind of worshiper God desires.
"Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth." (John 4:23-24)
"For it is we who are the circumcision, we who worship by the Spirit of God..." (Phil 3:3)
New Testament worship is from the new place of worship--the human heart--where the ark of the New Covenant (Jesus) resides. The place where God meets man and the glory of God appears. Just like in the old Temple. Clear examples of the spiritual replacing the literal. And examples that we all can agree on. They are the precedent in scripture for understanding how the law is upheld in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the literal.
Thank God for the New Covenant.
_____________________________
"For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit, because anyone who serves Christ in this way is pleasing to God and approved by men." (Romans 14:17,18)
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RE: Keep The Law? - One Stop Thread - 5/7/2008 10:53:29 AM
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LBolt
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"Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth." (John 4:23-24)
This is a very interesting passage because Messiah tactfully corrected this dear lady theology a bit.
I would like to focus on the word "truth" for a minute. Doing a simply Biblical study shows me in Psalms 119:30,43,142, & 151 give us a Biblical definition of truth just like 1 John 3:4 give us the Biblical definition of sin.
quote:
1. The New Testament replaced the Old Testament. The Old Law was a law of do's and don'ts. There was no salvation under that convenant. The New Law is a law of salvation by grace through faith in Jesus Christ and His sacrifice on the cross for our sins.
This is very bold statement...which is why I bolded it. LOL! Most of the NT is a quote of the OT. In I Timothy 3:15 clearly refutes points 1 and 3. Also it was that antiquated OT that Christ quoted from 3 times when He was opposed by the satan in the wilderness.
quote:
And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures(What Holy Scriptures is Paul referring to?? The OT...the NT wasn't written yet), which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. (All that in the OT?!! Wow!!) 16 All scripture (again what is the "all" that Paul is referring to? OT!) is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.(All this from the good ol antiquated OT  ) Parenthesis is me speaking. LOL
2. The Old Testament consisted of 613 Laws. (Paul warns us that if we are going to keep some, we must keep all.) The New Testament is based on the Great Commandments to love God and love people.
He said that we would live by them too. Romans 10:5 (quoted from the Lev. 18:5, Deut 4:1 and others verses. But again this is limited because not all 613 pertain to us. Some had to do with the land of Israel, Levitical priests, women, childern farmers...
quote:
3. Salvation is based on the New Testament, not the Old.
Yahshua made a rather interesting statement when he said, "Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
When the rich young ruler came to Yahshua asking Him what must he do to inherit eternal life, what was His response. This is the Master, the King of Kings and LORD of lords answering. He said in Luke 18, "Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God. 20 Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother."
Having done this from a youth and still feeling inadequate Yahshua deals with the heart of this man problem.
Yet lackest thou one thing: sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me.
Material possession had Him and He relied on Law keeping apart from following Messiah!
In Mark's Gospel version it say in 10:17-31
17 And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running, and kneeled to him, and asked him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life? 18 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God. 19 Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Defraud not, Honour thy father and mother. 20 And he answered and said unto him, Master, all these have I observed from my youth. 21 Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me. 22 And he was sad at that saying, and went away grieved: for he had great possessions. 23 And Jesus looked round about, and saith unto his disciples, How hardly shall they that have riches enter into the kingdom of God!
quote:
I would encourage you, regardless of your views of the Old Law to focus on keeping the Great Commandments and remembering that your salvation is based on who Jesus is in your life and what He did for you. It is not based on whether you keep a bunch of laws.
God bless you as you continue getting to know Jesus.
Thank you! We never contended that salvation is in keeping the Law, we must be willing to follow the Master, which entails trusting Him first, then we walk and obey His Word. It's funny, those the Great Commandments were commonly taught then. It's the essence of the Torah!
Pastor Copple I appreciate your invite to study the Gospels with you, I viewed your web-site, it looks very professional. I've found that when you study the Bible Hebraically and study the word from the standpoint of the Hebrew/Aramaic language without the "westernized Hellenistic" mindsets employed by most scholarship, you get a better grasp on the words and theology of Messiah and the Apostles who wrote the NT canon. We have to uncover the Hebrew/Aramaic behind the Greek and obtain the thought. We can't divorce Messiah from the culture of the Land and squeeze Him into our "dispensational linear logic."
I doubt that these precious saints were writing letters to introduce canon of scripture that would supercede the "then known scriptures." The letters served to refute false doctrine, teach Torah and encourage the believers to continue trusting in the Messiah being rooted and grounded in their faith inspite of tremendous opposition.
< Message edited by LBolt -- 5/7/2008 11:18:30 AM >
_____________________________
Wisdom is the principle thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all thy getting get understanding...she shall give to thine head an ornament of grace..---Proverbs 4:7,9
You mean there was grace in the Old Testament?!!!
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RE: Keep The Law? - One Stop Thread - 5/7/2008 12:51:53 PM
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SpongeBlog
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20Our fathers worshiped on this mountain, but you Jews claim that the place where we must worship is in Jerusalem."
21Jesus declared, "Believe me, woman, a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem. 22You Samaritans worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews. 23Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. 24God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth." (John 4)
The problem with thinking 'truth' means the literal law in these passages is that Jesus Himself contrasts the one true place of worship prescribed in the law (Jerusalem) with a new place which is neither in Samaria nor Jerusalem. How can worshiping according to the 'truth' that Jesus speaks of mean worship according to the literal law if this new true worshiip is not in the place according to the written law?
And Paul does the same thing. He contrasts literal circumcision with the new circucision of the heart in his description of what constitutes true worship 'in Spirit and in Truth'. How can the 'truth' he speaks of mean the literal law if the truth he shares is something different than what the literal law required?
Also note how the 'time' that is coming and which is already here is speaking of the time and season of Christ, not a literal meaure of time, but an appointed space of time in history (the fullness of time) in which this worship 'in Spirit and in Truth' would be established. The time of Christ's appearance is the 'day' and 'time' and 'season', the appointment we must all keep to fulfill the requirements of the law to avoid the wrath of God.
_____________________________
"For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit, because anyone who serves Christ in this way is pleasing to God and approved by men." (Romans 14:17,18)
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RE: Keep The Law? - One Stop Thread - 5/8/2008 12:31:59 PM
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mcleod
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Spong;
Say you have a lot of what you say is correct . But let us journey to the place where man was placed on the earth. The garden where the serpent lied to the woman. Told her that she shall not die, but become as God in the sense in knowing certain things.This is where the great debate over satan and God had who was really telling the truth. That is why Jesus came and told his followers that he was the way the truth.
Because satan had decieved man into believing that God was a liar. That you would have to earn your way into heaven for doing nothing. It just couldn't happen out of love.
That's why I have problems with people who will say in one breath that it is by faith. Yet push a bunch of rules down people necks.
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RE: Keep The Law? - One Stop Thread - 5/8/2008 7:54:30 PM
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Bluethread
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quote:
ORIGINAL: mcleod
Spong;
Say you have a lot of what you say is correct . But let us journey to the place where man was placed on the earth. The garden where the serpent lied to the woman. Told her that she shall not die, but become as God in the sense in knowing certain things.This is where the great debate over satan and God had who was really telling the truth. That is why Jesus came and told his followers that he was the way the truth.
Because satan had decieved man into believing that God was a liar. That you would have to earn your way into heaven for doing nothing. It just couldn't happen out of love.
That's why I have problems with people who will say in one breath that it is by faith. Yet push a bunch of rules down people necks.
I too have a problem with those people. However, if you ask people what they believe and why they believe it, you can't blame them for strongly defending their belief. After all, if we didn't think we were right we wouldn't live the way we do. Taht goes for all people regardless of what one believes. That's why I find it useful to try and focus on the message and not the messenger.
_____________________________
"Show me wherein I have errored and I will hold my tongue." Iyov(Job)
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RE: Keep The Law? - One Stop Thread - 5/8/2008 9:16:55 PM
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LoyalGypsy
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SpongeBlog
Also note how the 'time' that is coming and which is already here is speaking of the time and season of Christ, not a literal meaure of time, but an appointed space of time in history (the fullness of time) in which this worship 'in Spirit and in Truth' would be established. The time of Christ's appearance is the 'day' and 'time' and 'season', the appointment we must all keep to fulfill the requirements of the law to avoid the wrath of God.
Greetings
quote:
Also note how the 'time' that is coming and which is already here is speaking of the time and season of Christ, not a literal measure of time, but an appointed space of time in history (the fullness of time) in which this worship 'in Spirit and in Truth' would be established.
The time of Christ's appearance is the 'day' and 'time' and 'season', the appointment we must all keep to fulfill the requirements of the law to avoid the wrath of God.
The Bible says..We¡ do not avoid the wrath of God, as if we could do anything; we are kept from it, or taken out of it,
If we look at the words in the prayer in John 17:9-14 we see in that reference verse # 15, that if Jesus did not pray what He prayed we would have went with Him at His ascension.
John 17:9 I pray for them:
John 17:15 I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world,
Greek for G142 ¦Áἴ¦Ñ¦Ø Transliteration
air¨
John 17:15
¡.but (is again praying for them v 9) that thou shouldest keep them from ¡¡the evil.
Greek for G5083 ¦Ó¦Ç¦Ñέ¦Ø Transliteration
t¨¥re¨
Lu 24:49 - Show Context
Behold, I send the Promise of My Father upon you; but tarry in the city of Jerusalem until you are endued with power from on high."
Greek for G2523 ¦Ê¦Á¦Èί¦Æ¦Ø Transliteration
kathiz¨
tarry in the city of Jerusalem is to 1) to have fixed one's abode
So if Jesus did not pray what He prayed John 17:15 to have fixed one's abode we would have went with Him at His ascension and there would have been no need to be endued with power from on high
SO we are kept from it, in answer to Jesus prayer that thou shouldest keep them from ¡¡the evil¡. by .....being endued with power from on high,
It is saying that just accepting Christ as savior without the filling of the HS or being endued with that power from on high¡. is basically evil.
However, I am not sure exactly what you posted here, means
¡±The time of Christ's appearance is the appointment we must all keep to fulfill the requirements of the law to avoid the wrath of God.¡±
¡.it sounds a bit legalistic??? IMO ¡.because the scripture is saying otherwise, that to have fixed one's abode .....the Father in answer to Jesus prayer allows one to tarry until we are endued with the power from on high."
What you offered seems to be half of the instruction in terms of what we must all keep to fulfill, and if the Law is no longer is the teacher, then why are we still presuming legalistic statements??
We are either kept from it (the wrath of God), by being endued with the power from on high." Which is the eartly blessing
Or
Are taken are out of it
John 10:39-42
39 Therefore they sought again to seize Him, but He escaped out of their hand.
How many times did the scripture mention and how did He get away unnoticed those time when they tried to to seize Him, but He escaped??
Are taken are out of it, (the wrath of God) is the Heavenly blessing
John 17:24 Father, I desire that they also whom You gave Me may be with Me where I am, that they may behold My glory which You have given Me; for You loved Me before the foundation of the world.
LG
< Message edited by LoyalGypsy -- 5/8/2008 9:24:47 PM >
_____________________________
Ex 19:5 Now therefore, if you will indeed obey My voice
...So the Persians ask that the 300 drop their arms. Leonidas responds; "Persians! Come and get them!"
300 The Movie
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RE: Keep The Law? - One Stop Thread - 5/8/2008 11:45:40 PM
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SpongeBlog
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LoyalGypsy,
I'm not sure how you are connecting the disciples tarrying in Jerusalem into all of this. I'm talking about the wrath of the Judgement. The Day of Judgement at the end of the age:
"... you have taken your great power and have begun to reign. The nations were angry; and your wrath has come. The time has come for judging the dead, and for rewarding your servants the prophets and your saints and those who reverence your name, both small and great..." (Rev. 11:17-18)
Jesus is the only way to safely pass through this coming judgement of God's wrath. That's what the gospel is all about:
"...God did not appoint us to suffer wrath but to receive salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ." (1 Thess. 5:9)
Now Christ came into the world to bring us this assurance of salvation at a specific period of time in history. A time that was known and established beforehand.
"... when the time had fully come, God sent his Son, born of a woman, born under law, to redeem those under law, that we might receive the full rights of sons. (Gal. 4:4-5)
When speaking to the Jews, Jesus Himself referred to the appointed time in which He would be in the world as His 'day':
"Your father Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day; he saw it and was glad." (John 8:56)
The literal Sabbath was the appointed day established by God when all must rest from their own works to take care of themselves and instead trust God for their survival (or be destroyed). So also Jesus's time is the appointed day established by God when all men must rest from their efforts to provide for themselves and instead trust God to 'save' them or be destroyed in the judgement. Jesus is the appointed Sabbath, the appointed day in which all men must rest from their works to keep themselves alive and instead trust God for the bread of life that comes down from heaven and carries them safely through the day of judgement.
The literal Sabbath was an illustration for us to understand the true Sabbath Day that was coming at the appointed time, Jesus Christ. When a person believes in Jesus and His work on the cross, they are relying on the bread from heaven that God has provided and cease from gathering their own source of life. Disobedience to enter that rest, the rest God has provided, is what God punishes with death.
Now that we know this, we are to worship God in this new way and not in the old way of the letter of the law. Believing (having faith by the Holy Spirit) is the new way that we are to worship God. Believing is how we enter the true rest God requires. Believing is how we undergo the true circumcision God requires. Believing is how we offer up the true sacrifice for our sins God requres. Believing is the work God requires, not the literal works, the external worship, of the law that was only an illustration of the true worship God desires.
"...they asked him, "What must we do to do the works God requires?"
Jesus answered, "The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent." (John 6:28-29)
_____________________________
"For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit, because anyone who serves Christ in this way is pleasing to God and approved by men." (Romans 14:17,18)
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RE: Keep The Law? - One Stop Thread - 5/9/2008 10:13:36 AM
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mcleod
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Please do not take this as a slam. But Loyal Gypsy you need to stay in context of what your thoughts are because tou are all over the gamut.
I thought I was bad about it.
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RE: Keep The Law? - One Stop Thread - 5/9/2008 10:16:17 AM
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mcleod
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Here's a good one verse please;
quote:
It is saying that just accepting Christ as savior without the filling of the HS or being endued with that power from on high¡. is basically evil.
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RE: Keep The Law? - One Stop Thread - 5/9/2008 10:19:29 AM
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mcleod
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One more time it was not his time to die.
quote:
John 10:39-42
39 Therefore they sought again to seize Him, but He escaped out of their hands
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RE: Keep The Law? - One Stop Thread - 5/9/2008 10:38:37 AM
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mcleod
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Some one told Jesus that Herod was looking out for him and that Herod probably wanted to silence him for good.
But this is what Jesus answerd the gentleman who said that statetment; Luke 14:32; Go tell that fox, I will drive out demons and heal people today and tomorrow, and on the third day I will reach my goal. In any case, I must keep going today and tomorrow and the next day-for surely no prophet can die outside of Jerusalem!
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RE: Keep The Law? - One Stop Thread - 5/9/2008 11:03:07 AM
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LBolt
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If Messiah is the Word made Flesh (and He is) then He would not come to repudiate His Word as many of you say. You equate "fulfill" to mean one thing when you are missing the point. If the 10 Commandments are reduced to 9, with Christ being the "fulfillment" of the 4th then He would have to go back to all those people who kept Sabbath and looked forward to Messiah His coming and tell them that their time was wasted.
That's like saying that I don't give offerings because Jesus fulfilled every offering in the OT and since I received Him then I don't have to give offerings anymore. You see the "every day is the Sabbath because I've got Christ" teaching really is a doctrine that undermines and belittles the Word of God by making the Sabbath day a common day. It's actually making the Word of God of no effect due to our tradition. We don't do the Feasts because "it's all been fulfilled" and we celebrate pagan holidays painted Christian? The early patriarchs in the wilderness has a right to ask God why did you punish us for not keeping Sabbath or obeying your word if what God gave them was inferior and flawed! Selah! (pause and think about that.)
I wonder when Christmas and Easter will be "fulfilled" so we as a body would lay that aside and do what we are supposed to do? Yes Sabbath is a "shadow of what is to come." Colosians has it in the future tense and when He comes we'll still be doing Sabbath. Christ in His end-time teaching told us to pray that our flight be not on the Sabbath (which occured after the resurrection) or in the winter. This referred to AD 70 and sometime in the near future in the end-times. We might as well not read the OT because it's useless. Well maybe Genesis, Psalms and Proverbs, how else are we to explain how sin came to be. I heard of a guy in India say that reading of the OT in useless because it's been fulfilled and the NT is superior. Paul and the Apostles would roll over in their graves him they heard some of the nonsense that is taught in the churches today.
Wait a minute Christ is the Sabbath. So this verse can actually say "pray ye that your flight be not on Christ or in the winter."  That can't be it. The truth is, after AD 70 the Church experienced a lot of persecution and pressure to abort "Jewish" practices, coupled with increasing non-Jewish church leadership who compromised in order to gain more converts, we abandoned certain practices and embraced traditions not rooted in the Word of God. History bears this out.
We can continue to defend our traditions by twisting scripture and have our own little "amen corner" or we can we humbly and honest study scripture, review our history books and let the Word of God interpret itself. If God did away with the Law by fulfilling it thereby rendering it useless then He is a God who changes. If He changes then He contradicted Himself. Thank YAH that's not the case.
_____________________________
Wisdom is the principle thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all thy getting get understanding...she shall give to thine head an ornament of grace..---Proverbs 4:7,9
You mean there was grace in the Old Testament?!!!
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RE: Keep The Law? - One Stop Thread - 5/9/2008 11:12:44 AM
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Mannamuncher
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quote:
ORIGINAL: LBolt
If Messiah is the Word made Flesh (and He is) then He would not come to repudiate His Word as many of you say.
Please give example for benefit of discussion
_____________________________
Coincidentally...both Obama & Oprah begin with a zero...
If Jesus Christ came back today and saw what was being done in his name, he'd never stop throwing up.
Woody Allen
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RE: Keep The Law? - One Stop Thread - 5/9/2008 11:14:51 AM
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Mannamuncher
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quote:
ORIGINAL: LBolt
If Messiah is the Word made Flesh (and He is) then He would not come to repudiate His Word as many of you say. You equate "fulfill" to mean one thing when you are missing the point. If the 10 Commandments are reduced to 9
Who are these commands written to ?
Who are the peculiar people ?
Who are the treasured possession ?
_____________________________
Coincidentally...both Obama & Oprah begin with a zero...
If Jesus Christ came back today and saw what was being done in his name, he'd never stop throwing up.
Woody Allen
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RE: Keep The Law? - One Stop Thread - 5/9/2008 11:20:13 AM
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McFatty
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"The LORD said, 'I will blot out man whom I have created from the face of the land, from man to animals to creeping things and to birds of the sky; for I am sorry that I have made them.'" - Genesis 6:7
"So the LORD changed His mind about the harm which He said He would do to His people." - Exodus 32:14
"'I regret that I have made Saul king, for he has turned back from following Me and has not carried out My commands.' And Samuel was distressed and cried out to the LORD all night." - 1 Samuel 15:11
"And He remembered His covenant for their sake, And relented according to the greatness of His lovingkindness." - Psalm 106:45
"How can I give you up, O Ephraim? How can I surrender you, O Israel? How can I make you like Admah? How can I treat you like Zeboiim? My heart is turned over within Me, All My compassions are kindled." - Hosea 11:8
"When God saw their deeds, that they turned from their wicked way, then God relented concerning the calamity which He had declared He would bring upon them. And He did not do it." - Jonah 3:10
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“Finally, brethren, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is of good repute, if there is any excellence and if anything worthy of praise, dwell on these things.” – Philippians 4:8
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RE: Keep The Law? - One Stop Thread - 5/9/2008 11:20:24 AM
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Mannamuncher
Posts: 2595
Joined: 4/13/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: LBolt
That's like saying that I don't give offerings because Jesus fulfilled every offering in the OT and since I received Him then I don't have to give offerings anymore.
Who said ALL offerings were obsolete ?
Specifically, what kind of offerings ?
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Coincidentally...both Obama & Oprah begin with a zero...
If Jesus Christ came back today and saw what was being done in his name, he'd never stop throwing up.
Woody Allen
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RE: Keep The Law? - One Stop Thread - 5/9/2008 11:48:11 AM
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LBolt
Posts: 888
Joined: 11/30/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
Who are these commands written to ?
Those that are in covenant with YAH not just Jewish people. Those that love God. Romans 2:12 says that all will be judged by it.
I John 3:2-24 also John 14:21
Who are the peculiar people ? Let's see, in Exodus 19:5, Deut. 14:2 and 26:18 He spoke of the children of Israel to include the mixed multitude of nations who joined Israel thereby receiving salvation too. In 1 Peter 2:9 all who accept Christ are called peculiar people. In fact compare this verse with the above mentioned verses. Hmmmm! 
Who are the treasured possession ? Isreal and those who accept Christ as LORD and Saviour.
Manna, I believe that we are all "Israel" just like those that left Eygpt with Moses who were of another ethnicity. We are all the people of God. We are supposed to have His Torah written on our hearts like Jer. 31:31-34 says and Hebrews 8:10. The author quotes the verse in Jeremiah.
quote:
ORIGINAL: LBolt
If Messiah is the Word made Flesh (and He is) then He would not come to repudiate His Word as many of you say.
Please give example for benefit of discussion
We say that Sabbath is no longer for us to do yt there are over 150 verses that say otherwise. Christ himself kept Sabbath (Luke 4) and Paul kept Sabbath (Acts 17).
Christ told His disciples to tarry in Jerusalem until the receive power from on high. It was during the Feast of Weeks and Pentecoste that this occured. They all kept the Feasts and Christ is the fulfillment of them! ICorinthians 5:8. We know that Christ kept the Feasts and even said that he desired to eat the Passover and will do so until all be fulfilled..."For I say unto you, I will not any more eat thereof, until it be fulfilled in the kingdom of God." There's that fulfilled word. This happens to mean come to pass. Yet it'll still will be done and is to be done today. Yet Christ fulfilled it. So you see fulfilled doesn't always necessarily mean that it is nolonger to be done because it is "Fulfilled."
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Wisdom is the principle thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all thy getting get understanding...she shall give to thine head an ornament of grace..---Proverbs 4:7,9
You mean there was grace in the Old Testament?!!!
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RE: Keep The Law? - One Stop Thread - 5/9/2008 3:57:23 PM
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LoyalGypsy
Posts: 1856
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: mcleod
Please do not take this as a slam. But Loyal Gypsy you need to stay in context of what your thoughts are because you are all over the gamut.
I thought I was bad about it.
Greetings,
quote:
Loyal Gypsy you need to stay in context of what your thoughts are
LOL! Actually I was out of the time realm,
It was mentioned;quote:
The time of Christ's appearance is the 'day' and 'time' and 'season', the appointment we must all keep to fulfill the requirements of the law to avoid the wrath of God.
He should have said this in the first place; quote:
…I'm talki | | |
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