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RE: Keep The Law? - One Stop Thread - 5/10/2008 11:52:48 AM
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SpongeBlog
Posts: 1180
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Mannamuncher
...No malice or judgement towards anyone, the participation in these activities is in good faith, done out of love for God.
I agree. Until a person can see with their spirit that we have been released from the old way of the written letter of the law and now serve God in the new way of the Spirit, they should continue to serve in the old way.
"But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code." (Romans 7:6)
_____________________________
"For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit, because anyone who serves Christ in this way is pleasing to God and approved by men." (Romans 14:17,18)
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RE: Keep The Law? - One Stop Thread - 5/10/2008 3:16:20 PM
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LoyalGypsy
Posts: 1613
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SpongeBlog
quote:
ORIGINAL: LBolt
We can continue to defend our traditions by twisting scripture and have our own little "amen corner" or we can we humbly and honest study scripture, review our history books and let the Word of God interpret itself. If God did away with the Law by fulfilling it thereby rendering it useless then He is a God who changes. If He changes then He contradicted Himself. Thank YAH that's not the case.
I'll say it again...then He contradicted Himself on the matters of animal sacrifice, circumcision, and the one true place of worship. Why are these cold hard truths ignored? These examples nullify the literalist's argument for never-changing law (which for some reason must equate to a never-changing God). God's character and purpose never change, not what He does...
"Because God wanted to make the unchanging nature of his purpose very clear to the heirs of what was promised, he confirmed it with an oath. God did this so that, by two unchangeable things in which it is impossible for God to lie, we who have fled to take hold of the hope offered to us may be greatly encouraged. (Hebrews 6:17-18)
The writer of Hebrews also plainly states that the law has changed. And not only changed, but that it must change...
"For when there is a change of the priesthood, there must also be a change of the law. (Hebrews 7:12)
How God relates to man has changed. God's purpose and character have not, and will not change. How much clearer does it have to be stated in scripture?
Greetings,
21 (for they have become priests without an oath, but He with an oath by Him who said to Him: "The Lord has sworn And will not relent,
It’s a kingdom principal,
God in the beginning Himself offered up the first animal sacrifice to cover Adam and Eves sin, the same as Jesus offered up Himself as that sin offering, therefore Jesus' is a priest forever* According to the order of Melchizedek' ")
+ 22 by so much more Jesus has become a surety of a better covenant.
END of SUBJECT
23 Also there were many priests, because they were prevented by death from continuing. 24 But He, because He continues forever, has an unchangeable priesthood.
25 Therefore He is also able to save to the uttermost those who come to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them.
But it is still God who saves,
meaning the unchangeable priesthood According to the order of Melchizedek was the same in the beginning before the foundations of the world.
So what is the intercession that is Jesus making…or by definition what action of pleading on somebody's behalf in the attempt to settle a dispute is Jesus interceding against…….Keeping the Law or breaking the law??
For if the Law is of sin and death…. then why did Jesus say in Joh 8:24 - Show Context
.........Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for if you do not believe that I am He, you will die in your sins."
...........11 Therefore, if perfection were through the Levitical priesthood
(for under it the people received the law),
What further need was there that another priest should rise according to the order of Melchizedek, and not be called according to the order of Aaron?
12 For the priesthood being changed, of necessity there is also a change of the law. ……..13 For He of whom these things are spoken belongs to another tribe, ……..from which “no man” has officiated at the altar.
The only thing that changed are the ceremonials who officiate at the altar….and is from a different tribe,
The Law that is officiated..... Is still the same as v 25 says..........
Therefore He is also able to save to the uttermost those who come to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession….. for them.
quote:
How much clearer does it have to be stated in scripture?
How God relates to man has changed. God's purpose and character have not, and will not change .
Isn’t the purpose and character of God the same where God relates to man since the beginning?
If so.....Then how can there be two different things.... if in deed they have not changed???
LG
< Message edited by LoyalGypsy -- 5/10/2008 3:26:58 PM >
_____________________________
Ex 19:5 Now therefore, if you will indeed obey My voice
...So the Persians ask that the 300 drop their arms. Leonidas responds; "Persians! Come and get them!"
300 The Movie
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RE: Keep The Law? - One Stop Thread - 5/12/2008 9:30:42 AM
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SpongeBlog
Posts: 1180
Joined: 12/9/2006
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LoyalGypsy,
I don't see how all that explains how animal sacrifice was once required by law, and that those sacrifices could only be offered up by Levites by law, but now those laws are no longer binding. A clear example of a changing law, the very thing that some literalist say is impossible to happen if God is to remain true, but which undeniably has happened.
My argument is these laws find their fulfillment in the new way of the Spirit, and it is in that sense that they are not abolished. It's clear that Christ is the 'fulfillment' of the law of sacrifice for sin. Who can argue that? Is it really so absurd that Christ also 'fulfills' other required ceremonial laws of worship? And has fulfilled them so thoroughly and perfectly that it is no longer necessary to perform the old literal observance (as is the case with animal sacrifice)?
The bottomline of all this is most of the arguments in this thread defending the continuation of the literal law (mainly because Jesus said he came not to abolish it) don't stand up well to scrunity. That's why I say this whole thing is really just a mater of denominational preference.
We all know some of the law doesn't have to be fulfilled literally anymore. The question comes down to the things we ought to continue to perform literally. Some groups say this, some groups say that. And all have their 'Biblical' proof of why their way is right. So this is hardly a matter of 'the whole law or not'. It's a matter of 'what part of the law'.
This is no different than many mainline denominational Churches today who have decided worship should be this way or that (immersion vs. sprinkling, etc...), and have separated themselves from the whole in order to do it that way, and vehemently defend what they believe, usually at the expense of the infinately more important matter of walking in the character of Christ and the unity of the Body.
Years ago I had wonderful fellowship with a group of people of very diverse backgrounds and beliefs. But what kept us glued together was our focus on enjoying Christ in praise and worship and becoming more and more like Jesus in our relationships and lifestyles. Without consciously thinking about it, we gave each other the liberty to think what they wanted about end-times theologies, and other asundry doctrines, because those mattered little in our quest to know the God who "rewards those who seek him" (Heb. 11:6). Even now while I'm typing this there are those who automatically think 'seeking him' means obeying Him in the ways prescribed under the old law. You're certainly free to do that, but it's dead wrong to tell others they are disobedient and relating to God in an inferior manner if they do not subscribe to your denominational preferences and beliefs.
_____________________________
"For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit, because anyone who serves Christ in this way is pleasing to God and approved by men." (Romans 14:17,18)
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RE: Keep The Law? - One Stop Thread - 5/12/2008 10:46:24 AM
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Lapidoth
Posts: 2784
Joined: 4/13/2005
From: OKLAHOMA
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quote:
quote:
ORIGINAL: LBolt
If Messiah is the Word made Flesh (and He is) then He would not come to repudiate His Word as many of you say. You equate "fulfill" to mean one thing when you are missing the point. If the 10 Commandments are reduced to 9, with Christ being the "fulfillment" of the 4th then He would have to go back to all those people who kept Sabbath and looked forward to Messiah His coming and tell them that their time was wasted.
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Spongeblog:
If you want to look at it that way, then fine, but I guess God owes an apology to all the males who cut the tips of their penis's off so they could be in compliance with the First Covenant, only to find out spiritual circumcision of the heart is what it is really all about. And He owes an apology to all those who made the expense and effort of offering up animal after animal, year after year, decade after decade just to find out it's all about Jesus's sacrifice, not literal animals. And an apology to all those who ventured to Jerusalem 3 or more times a year as required, only to find out that's it's all about sincere worship from the heart , the new place of worship that counts.
There's no way to carry on a discussion when you keep adding things to people quotes that have nothing to do
with what they are saying.
quote:
I know the argument goes that we've replaced the feasts with these (take that matter up with the Catholics), but to us modern Christians that's not what we're doing. Take away Christmas and Easter and we'll still not keep the literal Old Covenant feasts.
So, no matter what, "We will never keep God's appointed times, only what the churches designate as legal?"
Okay..........
quote:
we gave each other the liberty to think what they wanted about end-times theologies, and other asundry doctrines, because those mattered little in our quest to know the God
Liberty for everything but covenant items? okay...........
_____________________________
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
http://www.tedpearce.com/Videos/TheForgottenpeople.html
BARUCH HABA BASHEM YAHUAH
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RE: Keep The Law? - One Stop Thread - 5/12/2008 11:53:38 AM
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SpongeBlog
Posts: 1180
Joined: 12/9/2006
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Lapidoth
There's no way to carry on a discussion when you keep adding things to people quotes that have nothing to do
with what they are saying.
Don't get frustrated. Make me understand clearly what you are trying to say instead of leveling this kind of criticism. Substance! Teach us! I've shared how we see things through the scriptures. Do the same. It's a free forum and your views are respected by the majority of us. But just remember I have the same liberty, if you can handle being challenged. You are my brother, not my enemy.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Lapidoth
quote:
I know the argument goes that we've replaced the feasts with these (take that matter up with the Catholics), but to us modern Christians that's not what we're doing. Take away Christmas and Easter and we'll still not keep the literal Old Covenant feasts.
So, no matter what, "We will never keep God's appointed times, only what the churches designate as legal?"
Okay..........
I choose my words carefully when I write. That's why I often reread my posts to see if I could have said something a little better. I did that just before I read your post all the way through and I thought to myself I should have made it clear this group I fellowshipped with also included Jews who favored the literal worship laws of the OT. We were still able to enjoy Christ together without beating each other up about what we thought we should or shouldn't be doing with the old law. Although I will admit, they were finally drawn away by a Messianic congregation. And our pastor was careful to explain it to us and put his blessing on it out of consideration of their interests, not ours.
Also, you used the word 'legal'. I was careful to say Easter and Christmas (and Sunday observances for that matter) are not a matter of law for many, many non-Catholics today. Do you understand what that means? We don't celebrate Christ in connection with any of these things because someone told us we must, or risk being disobedient to God. We recognize our freedom from worship being externally legislated as it was under the OT. It would be wonderful if the tradition continued in line with the OT law, and I would not be resistant to it. But I have deeper knowledge that has taught me it's not an issue anymore. You should read the thread in the Faith folder about the beautiful woman whose heart is opening up to the despised and unlovely of the world, and recognizing she is a part of that world too. That's true worship that God requires.
Lap, understand we 'conspirators' have firm foundations of why we do what we do. That's what I've been trying to share in this forum. Not everything is as conspiratorial as you think. I've tried very hard to articulate the Biblical foundations for the reformation that you and others are so dead against. Of course, not everyone's motives have been as pure as they should be in this reformation, but that does not negate the underlying truth of the reformation that Jesus Himself started.
_____________________________
"For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit, because anyone who serves Christ in this way is pleasing to God and approved by men." (Romans 14:17,18)
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RE: Keep The Law? - One Stop Thread - 5/12/2008 11:59:52 AM
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mcleod
Posts: 550
Joined: 4/4/2006
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quote:
We say that Sabbath is no longer for us to do yt there are over 150 verses that say otherwise. Christ himself kept Sabbath (Luke 4) and Paul kept Sabbath (Acts 17).
Tell me how did they keeped the sabbath law? Please don't give me an off the wall answer like my father-in-law does.
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RE: Keep The Law? - One Stop Thread - 5/12/2008 4:42:44 PM
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SpongeBlog
Posts: 1180
Joined: 12/9/2006
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Lapidoth
Liberty for everything but covenant items? okay...........
Don't misunderstand what I'm saying. The majority of us here are not trying to take away your liberty to worship the way you want to. But we do resist your suggestion that the rest of us who don't worship according to the old law are being disobedient. I have the liberty to worship according to the old law, but I choose not to. And I've been trying to defend the foundation for that freedom. So don't misunderstand, the liberty I defend includes the freedom to worship according to the old law. The whole argument here is whether or not we are indeed free of the legislated requirements of worship under the old law. That does not mean everyone must cease from those observances.
< Message edited by SpongeBlog -- 5/12/2008 4:48:46 PM >
_____________________________
"For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit, because anyone who serves Christ in this way is pleasing to God and approved by men." (Romans 14:17,18)
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RE: Keep The Law? - One Stop Thread - 5/13/2008 8:44:58 AM
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drussell52
Posts: 65
Joined: 4/24/2008
From: Michigan
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Eutychus
quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
quote:
So actually, by not offering sacrifices, we're following Torah
No, that's living as a nation in exile from God and under His condemnation and judgment.
That is it exactly, IMO. The loss of the Temple and the whole system was God's judgment and condemnation on a people who had missed the mark.
BTW, in general I greatly admire Saul of Tarsus. He was passionate about his religion and he truly and sincerely believed he was accomplishing the will of God by persecuting the Church, which threatened the whole of Judaism as he knew it. While sincere, he was wrong. He then spent a good part of his remaining life warring with those who tried to drag the Church back under the inadequate OT system.
Hi, I was redirected to this topic by the moderator from a subject I started called Torah Observant Believers. Not to pick a fight, but the more one is dispensational in their tehology, the less sympathetic they are to observing law/instruction/torah, all synonyms in the vocabulary of those who observe old testament instruction. See for example Leviticus 19:18 "You shall not take vengeance nor bear any grudge against the sons of your people, but you shall lobve your neighbor as yourself." If that's law, then I pray the LORD would enable me to adhere to it. Christ, the Spirit and God are all one, so the Law of Christ is likened to God's law, one doesn't exist without the other..
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RE: Keep The Law? - One Stop Thread - 5/13/2008 9:08:19 AM
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SpongeBlog
Posts: 1180
Joined: 12/9/2006
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quote:
ORIGINAL: drussell52
Hi, I was redirected to this topic by the moderator from a subject I started called Torah Observant Believers. Not to pick a fight, but the more one is dispensational in their tehology, the less sympathetic they are to observing law/instruction/torah, all synonyms in the vocabulary of those who observe old testament instruction. See for example Leviticus 19:18 "You shall not take vengeance nor bear any grudge against the sons of your people, but you shall lobve your neighbor as yourself." If that's law, then I pray the LORD would enable me to adhere to it. Christ, the Spirit and God are all one, so the Law of Christ is likened to God's law, one doesn't exist without the other..
I don't adhere to dispensational doctrine, but I also do not follow the letter of Torah. I understand how the people of God are now guided/ instructed by the Spirit of God instead of the written (letter of) the law. I don't try to understand that change in the framework of dispensational theology. But it is clear that we are in the New Covenant, a new distinct period of time where God leads His people using a different way. And that, to me, is one of the foundational truths one must get a grasp of to understand the difference between serving God by following written laws and serving and relating to God through a changed character. Walking according to the Spirit often gives the appearance of being 'lawless', but does in fact uphold the intent and purpose of the written law.
As an example, Christ's death on the cross fulfills the requirement for blood for the forgiveness of sins, but His death bears little resemblance to the literal letter of the law in regard to what one must do to have their sins forgiven. But no one will argue that Christ's work is clearly the fulfillment (not the abolishment) of the law of sacrifice for the forgiveness of sins. On the outside, the fulfillment of the law in this case gives the appearance of not following the law, yet fully satisfies it's requirements. That's what keeping the law in the new and better way of the Spirit is all about.
< Message edited by SpongeBlog -- 5/13/2008 9:17:07 AM >
_____________________________
"For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit, because anyone who serves Christ in this way is pleasing to God and approved by men." (Romans 14:17,18)
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RE: Keep The Law? - One Stop Thread - 5/13/2008 9:53:49 AM
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Odeliya
Posts: 1690
Joined: 8/10/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Lapidoth
quote:
ORIGINAL: LBolt
If Messiah is the Word made Flesh (and He is) then He would not come to repudiate His Word as many of you say. ....... cut the post to save the space out of respect for other's eyes......
Finally, something that makes sense!!!!!!!!!!!!!! LOL.
oh, brother Lap,come on.. That is NOT the first time Lbolt makes sense. Granted he shies away from tough questions, peretending he doesnt see them, but he have made quite a few decent readable posts that make sense before this one as well.
*************************************************************************
edit to add  - to make sure dear br. Lap gets he message 'let's be nicer to each other"
< Message edited by Odeliya -- 5/13/2008 10:36:30 AM >
_____________________________
Proverbs XI:14 Where no counsel is, the people fall: but in the multitude of counselors there is safety.
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RE: Keep The Law? - One Stop Thread - 5/13/2008 10:02:37 AM
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Odeliya
Posts: 1690
Joined: 8/10/2005
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quote:
penal circumcision (is that a word?)
I am sure it is , Sponge. I have attended quite a few circumcision ceremonies of my relatives babies and judging by how much fun a little boy is having during that activity - being born a male (and therefore having to go thru circumcision) is a penal offence.
_____________________________
Proverbs XI:14 Where no counsel is, the people fall: but in the multitude of counselors there is safety.
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RE: Keep The Law? - One Stop Thread - 5/13/2008 10:28:39 AM
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Odeliya
Posts: 1690
Joined: 8/10/2005
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quote:
Mannamuncher:
...No malice or judgement towards anyone, the participation in these activities is in good faith, done out of love for God.
SpongeBlog:
majority of us here are not trying to take away your liberty to worship the way you want to. But we do resist your suggestion that the rest of us who don't worship according to the old law are being disobedient. I have the liberty to worship according to the old law, but I choose not to
Amen! Oh beloved brothers from our highly respected Torah camp, please, do read the read the above.
We are not saying that you should stop obeying the Law, multitudes of posts have been written here proving that if observance of certain literal laws makes one obey the Spirit of the Law
- he should keep doing it.
quote:
See for example Leviticus 19:18 "You shall not take vengeance nor bear any grudge against the sons of your people, but you shall lobve your neighbor as yourself." If that's law, then I pray the LORD would enable me to adhere to it. Christ, the Spirit and God are all one, so the Law of Christ is likened to God's law, one doesn't exist without the other..
Person can observe Torah laws, including the Love in Leviticus and still not be a Christian.
My non christian sister loves God and prayes to God so much, and exibits so much love, patience, obedience, etc. what can be seen as fruit of the Holy Spirit she' been told by many christians she volunteered and worked with that "of you only believed in Jesus you already are a christian" So even the stricted observance of the Laws can not make one a christian.....
Also,.. it is in human nature to become legalistic once the laws are defined plainly and observance is obvious. It is impossible to observe the spirit without being a believer, being born again of Holy Spirit
the clear, obvious problem witnessed by me personally in many , many cases of people that start overdoing on the messianic, pseudo-messianic, modern "Torah Lite" version of messianic, etc. other flavors of it - the neglect of the Spirit of the Law.While there are M-s that are incredible, God loving, spirit filled brothers, most that i've met are not.
That is the practical reason i would not ever join M congregation...
_____________________________
Proverbs XI:14 Where no counsel is, the people fall: but in the multitude of counselors there is safety.
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RE: Keep The Law? - One Stop Thread - 5/13/2008 11:09:56 AM
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Odeliya
Posts: 1690
Joined: 8/10/2005
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Russell,
 Oh, sorry I completely forgot that the words :
"Jesus, Chirstian and Christ" are considered pagan and forbidden for use by most messianic people here.
That might cause confusion re: my post above to you-
By saying that my sister is non christain I meant to say thatt Elle is adherent of Reformed Judaism, not that she is messianic.
_____________________________
Proverbs XI:14 Where no counsel is, the people fall: but in the multitude of counselors there is safety.
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RE: Keep The Law? - One Stop Thread - 5/13/2008 12:34:54 PM
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Lapidoth
Posts: 2784
Joined: 4/13/2005
From: OKLAHOMA
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Odeliya
quote:
ORIGINAL: Lapidoth
quote:
ORIGINAL: LBolt
If Messiah is the Word made Flesh (and He is) then He would not come to repudiate His Word as many of you say. ....... cut the post to save the space out of respect for other's eyes......
Finally, something that makes sense!!!!!!!!!!!!!! LOL.
oh, brother Lap,come on.. That is NOT the first time Lbolt makes sense. Granted he shies away from tough questions, peretending he doesnt see them, but he have made quite a few decent readable posts that make sense before this one as well.
*************************************************************************
edit to add - to make sure dear br. Lap gets he message 'let's be nicer to each other"
I agree. In fact, it's when I see LBolt has posted it may cause me to come and lurk awhile. lol.
It wasn't a one time observation. I just happened to throw my rock in the water.
_____________________________
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
http://www.tedpearce.com/Videos/TheForgottenpeople.html
BARUCH HABA BASHEM YAHUAH
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RE: Keep The Law? - One Stop Thread - 5/13/2008 12:42:29 PM
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Lapidoth
Posts: 2784
Joined: 4/13/2005
From: OKLAHOMA
Status: offline
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quote:
the clear, obvious problem witnessed by me personally in many , many cases of people that start overdoing on the messianic, pseudo-messianic, modern "Torah Lite" version of messianic, etc. other flavors of it - the neglect of the Spirit of the Law.While there are M-s that are incredible, God loving, spirit filled brothers, most that i've met are not.
That is the practical reason i would not ever join M congregation...
Are you sitting? LOL.
We are probably in complete agreement on this.
I have the same "personal" experience in the new or not-so-new movement.
I've been to a couple M-congregations and I wouldn't be able to hook up with them.
We have a few new members just because they found we keep Shabat. (Or, rather, we have church on Saturday)
That doesn't necessarily mean anyone is keeping sabbath. Most of us miss the whole point.
But, they are hard-core Saturday people as in referring to others as Sunday keepers.
And hard core never use J-E-S-U-S or other terms. Yes, they won't say it, they spell it.
Well, I still say it, I still sing it. But if more appropriate I use the real name Yahushua or Yahuah.
Spirit of Love will bind us all together. These perceived adherence to the "letter" can divide us.
We are all products of our past. As in, what we have been taught develops our belief system up to this point.
Hopefully, we all have the capability of growing each day and moving where YHWH determines for us to be.
have a great rest of the week.
shalom
_____________________________
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
http://www.tedpearce.com/Videos/TheForgottenpeople.html
BARUCH HABA BASHEM YAHUAH
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RE: Keep The Law? - One Stop Thread - 5/13/2008 2:15:38 PM
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Bluethread
Posts: 805
Joined: 11/8/2007
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quote:
SpongeBlog:
The literal Sabbath was an illustration for us to understand the true Sabbath Day that was coming at the appointed time, Jesus Christ. When a person believes in Jesus and His work on the cross, they are relying on the bread from heaven that God has provided and cease from gathering their own source of life. Disobedience to enter that rest, the rest God has provided, is what God punishes with death.
I agree, but are you saying we are violating the second commandment by keeping the fourth? By that I mean, are we making a "graven image" by keeping Shabbat as reminder of Adonai's provision? If that is the case, what about "The Lord's Supper", wouldn't that also be a violation in the same way.
_____________________________
"Show me wherein I have errored and I will hold my tongue." Iyov(Job)
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RE: Keep The Law? - One Stop Thread - 5/13/2008 4:30:20 PM
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drussell52
Posts: 65
Joined: 4/24/2008
From: Michigan
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Lapidoth
quote:
the clear, obvious problem witnessed by me personally in many , many cases of people that start overdoing on the messianic, pseudo-messianic, modern "Torah Lite" version of messianic, etc. other flavors of it - the neglect of the Spirit of the Law.While there are M-s that are incredible, God loving, spirit filled brothers, most that i've met are not.
That is the practical reason i would not ever join M congregation...
Are you sitting? LOL.
We are probably in complete agreement on this.
I have the same "personal" experience in the new or not-so-new movement.
I've been to a couple M-congregations and I wouldn't be able to hook up with them.
We have a few new members just because they found we keep Shabat. (Or, rather, we have church on Saturday)
That doesn't necessarily mean anyone is keeping sabbath. Most of us miss the whole point.
But, they are hard-core Saturday people as in referring to others as Sunday keepers.
And hard core never use J-E-S-U-S or other terms. Yes, they won't say it, they spell it.
Well, I still say it, I still sing it. But if more appropriate I use the real name Yahushua or Yahuah.
Spirit of Love will bind us all together. These perceived adherence to the "letter" can divide us.
We are all products of our past. As in, what we have been taught develops our belief system up to this point.
Hopefully, we all have the capability of growing each day and moving where YHWH determines for us to be.
have a great rest of the week.
shalom
Spongeblog and everyone, I am not advocating keeping the law for salvation, the entry is by God's favor through faith, trust in Him paying four sins I and no one else here can begin to pay for.. Some have expressed more eloquently than I, that obedience follows being drawn into relationship with Jesus/Yeshua because one is taken that God would love one first.. I don't attend a M congregation either, but as a result of the things I've read and the on line communities in which I have participated for 2 years, have an enriched faith because of things sympathetic to the M as in Messianic viewpoint. I think the biggest impression has been to realize God has made a covenant with all who choose to follow him, so out of love and respect, want to with His aid keep honoring that covenant. You can call it old, new, or renewed if you like. I love you folks here at crosswalk, and like someone else observed, iron sharpens iron, ouch on the initial contact but praise God we help one another in our respective walk. My son represents the extreme of Christianity I almost loathe. He is 17, a full-blown adolescent and recently said, Dad you can obey what the .... you want to obey, I'm satisfied with 10 commandments and will choose which ones of those I wanna obey." There are believers who live my son's reflection ranging in age from 10 I suppose to 95. I do pray He will somehow have a real relationship with the Savior 1 day that is his to value and nurture. Later folk, gotta go do some domestic things now. :)
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RE: Keep The Law? - One Stop Thread - 5/13/2008 4:51:42 PM
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Bluethread
Posts: 805
Joined: 11/8/2007
Status: offline
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dressel52:
Very impressive, but, as Paul tells us, remember not to forsake tyhe assembling of yourself with others , but do so even more as the day of trouble approaches. That is make sure you touch base with others at the appointed times. For furthers discussion of these matters, go to the thread identified by rabbinic month and year in the Theohouse forum.
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"Show me wherein I have errored and I will hold my tongue." Iyov(Job)
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RE: Keep The Law? - One Stop Thread - 5/13/2008 4:59:25 PM
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Lapidoth
Posts: 2784
Joined: 4/13/2005
From: OKLAHOMA
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quote:
I think the biggest impression has been to realize God has made a covenant with all who choose to follow him, so out of love and respect, want to with His aid keep honoring that covenant. You can call it old, new, or renewed if you like.
For me there is only one Covenant.
We have disected it, shredded it, pulverized it, ignored it, and gotten legalistic over it, etc.
There is and was the Priestly Order of Heaven before time began.
The Levitical priesthood is a "reflection" of that heavenly, etc.
I just read this week how God "renewed" the covenant with Israel.
I should have written the passage down, but didn't. It wasn't long after leaving Egypt.
So "renewing" a covenant isn't new.
When we break covenant, it has to be renewed. But only on our part. God never breaks covenant.
And I'll be praying for your son. He may be like a lot of us and have to learn from the hard knocks.
quote:
have an enriched faith because of things sympathetic to the M as in Messianic viewpoint.
That's what we've been trying to say, it is enriching. thanks.
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Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
http://www.tedpearce.com/Videos/TheForgottenpeople.html
BARUCH HABA BASHEM YAHUAH
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