quote:

ORIGINAL: Corne

The NT has plenty to say on the perspective on the law before and after Christ, and about right living.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Corne

If one has no idea what sin is then he/she needs a temporary schoolmaster.

At some point a person (believer) moves on past the rule book to, living sacrificially in love, and keeping one's heart pure.

Example: How much training does it take to get that murder is wrong? Yet those in Christ are not supposed to live by that rule. We are supposed to be keeping our hearts free from sinful anger, (which doesn't allow for murder) and loving as Christ loved with the indwelling help of the Holy Spirit.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Corne

If one has no idea what sin is then he/she needs a temporary schoolmaster.

quote:


At some point a person (believer) moves on past the rule book to, living sacrificially in love, and keeping one's heart pure.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Corne

If one has no idea what sin is then he/she needs a temporary schoolmaster.

quote:


At some point a person (believer) moves on past the rule book to, living sacrificially in love, and keeping one's heart pure.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bluethread

Also, many murderers have no feelings one way or the other with regard to the person they are murdering. In some cases the person believes they are performing a loving act when they commit what some would consider murder. Not to get sidetracked on whether one is correct or not, some people who are apposed to war believe that abortion on demand is no problem.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Corne

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bluethread

Also, many murderers have no feelings one way or the other with regard to the person they are murdering. In some cases the person believes they are performing a loving act when they commit what some would consider murder. Not to get sidetracked on whether one is correct or not, some people who are apposed to war believe that abortion on demand is no problem.

Among believers?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Corne

Whose advocating a lack of teaching?

quote:

ORIGINAL: agapist

Walking in spirit and living in Christ will never be contrary to the law. It will always demonstrate the goodness of the law.

quote:

ORIGINAL: PROPHETSONG

According to Jesus all law and the prophets is summed up in 2 commands that is to love the Lord your God with all your heart with all your mind and with all your soul, and to love your neighbor as yourself.
If you love Jesus you will seek to do the things that please him. When I fell in love with a girl, I changed my whole life to accommodate her. If she told me that I did something to displease her, I made sure that I altered my behavior, so that I could remain close to her. I changed my dress, my language, who I associated with, and avoided taking on personal commitments is that took from my time with her. If I had to sacrifice something that I wanted to please her it was no big thing for me. For the sake of love I did some crazy stuff. I am sure that some you reading this can relate. This comparison is really a minute thing compared to how we should love God. The love that I owe God goes beyond that which I gave my former girlfriend. What do you value above all? Is it family, friends, power or position? If your love for anything else in this world, out shine your love for the Lord, then you can not be his disciple. If desire to follow Jesus then your love for him must consume you life, to the point that you lose yourself in him. Jesus loved the Father the with total abandonment. Every thing in the life of Christ was about what pleased the Father. The Son's love for the Father was the motivation behind him always doing the things that pleased the Father. In like manner we are love Jesus and do the things that always please him. The mind of Jesus is always focused on the will of God, and this mindset, is the mindset that we will have if we are truly led by the Spirit of God. Jesus' love made him obedient onto death even the death of the Cross. Your love for God must be sacrificial. Our you willing to lay down your life? If not then your love for God is badly lacking. All the Prophets and Apostles had this thing in common, they did not love their own lives onto death.
They rather die than live in a state of compromise. This was the heart of the three Hebrew children in the book of Daniel, that rather be burned alive than deny their God. This what it means to love God with everything you have and are.
To love your neighbor as yourself is exemplified in Jesus' sacrifice at the cross. He became the kernel of wheat that falls to the ground and dies to create a harvest. At the Cross God put a value on human life, and declared that all men are worth dying for. If we are to truly walk in Jesus steps we must take on that same mindset, that Jesus had. In love he came to serve, and not to be served, in spite of the fact that he was the heir of all things. You can not walk with Jesus unless your are willing to love the brethren as Jesus loved the brethren, and laid down his life for us.
This type of love is the foundation of the Law and the prophets. This is the love that existed between David, and Jonathan. David was by ,God declared to be a man after his own heart. If you examine his life and their is the marks of God's love in his nature. Saul sought to kill David, but still David loved him like a son loves a Father. Even after the Death of Saul he sought to be good to the house of Saul by taking care of what was left of Saul's house.
In spite of his sons Absolom's rebellion, he still loved his son with the love of a Father, to the point that he was angry with the man that killed the son that sought to kill his father. David was a man of deep love. He was a lot like Jesus.
The Spirit of the love of God in Jesus Christ fore-fills the for rightness of the Law of Moses.
Jesus said that the greater part of the Law was not giving tithes, but being just and merciful. In this Jesus was trying to teach the Pharisees how to for-fill the law through love, not ritual.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bluethread

quote:

ORIGINAL: PROPHETSONG

According to Jesus all law and the prophets is summed up in 2 commands that is to love the Lord your God with all your heart with all your mind and with all your soul, and to love your neighbor as yourself.
If you love Jesus you will seek to do the things that please him. When I fell in love with a girl, I changed my whole life to accommodate her. If she told me that I did something to displease her, I made sure that I altered my behavior, so that I could remain close to her. I changed my dress, my language, who I associated with, and avoided taking on personal commitments is that took from my time with her. If I had to sacrifice something that I wanted to please her it was no big thing for me. For the sake of love I did some crazy stuff. I am sure that some you reading this can relate. This comparison is really a minute thing compared to how we should love God. The love that I owe God goes beyond that which I gave my former girlfriend. What do you value above all? Is it family, friends, power or position? If your love for anything else in this world, out shine your love for the Lord, then you can not be his disciple. If desire to follow Jesus then your love for him must consume you life, to the point that you lose yourself in him. Jesus loved the Father the with total abandonment. Every thing in the life of Christ was about what pleased the Father. The Son's love for the Father was the motivation behind him always doing the things that pleased the Father. In like manner we are love Jesus and do the things that always please him. The mind of Jesus is always focused on the will of God, and this mindset, is the mindset that we will have if we are truly led by the Spirit of God. Jesus' love made him obedient onto death even the death of the Cross. Your love for God must be sacrificial. Our you willing to lay down your life? If not then your love for God is badly lacking. All the Prophets and Apostles had this thing in common, they did not love their own lives onto death.
They rather die than live in a state of compromise. This was the heart of the three Hebrew children in the book of Daniel, that rather be burned alive than deny their God. This what it means to love God with everything you have and are.
To love your neighbor as yourself is exemplified in Jesus' sacrifice at the cross. He became the kernel of wheat that falls to the ground and dies to create a harvest. At the Cross God put a value on human life, and declared that all men are worth dying for. If we are to truly walk in Jesus steps we must take on that same mindset, that Jesus had. In love he came to serve, and not to be served, in spite of the fact that he was the heir of all things. You can not walk with Jesus unless your are willing to love the brethren as Jesus loved the brethren, and laid down his life for us.
This type of love is the foundation of the Law and the prophets. This is the love that existed between David, and Jonathan. David was by ,God declared to be a man after his own heart. If you examine his life and their is the marks of God's love in his nature. Saul sought to kill David, but still David loved him like a son loves a Father. Even after the Death of Saul he sought to be good to the house of Saul by taking care of what was left of Saul's house.
In spite of his sons Absolom's rebellion, he still loved his son with the love of a Father, to the point that he was angry with the man that killed the son that sought to kill his father. David was a man of deep love. He was a lot like Jesus.
The Spirit of the love of God in Jesus Christ fore-fills the for rightness of the Law of Moses.
Jesus said that the greater part of the Law was not giving tithes, but being just and merciful. In this Jesus was trying to teach the Pharisees how to for-fill the law through love, not ritual.

Yes, ritualistic obedience is not acceptable to Adonai, unless it is part of the process of submission in developing understanding. However, did not Yeshua tell us, (Mt 23:23) "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices--mint, dill and cummin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law--justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former." This is the proper practice of HaTorah. Most financial advisers will say, it is much more pracical to set aside a given amount on a regular basis than wait for an emergency. If the secular advisers can show this forsight, aught not we who have been instructed by Adonai do so?

quote:

ORIGINAL: PROPHETSONG

I am a firm believer in giving the tithe and offering. The verse you presented clearly that Messiah himself indorced it himself. However, in all og our giving we must give with heart. If we give we with a heart of thankfulness and gratitude toward God for all his goodness towards us, Adonai will accept it. God loves a cheerful giver. Giving to the house of God, should be out of our love relationship with him, because G-d looks not at the outward appearance, but at the thoughts and intensions of the heart. I believe in tithing 100%, but it must be done with the proper state of the heart, or else it is just a dead ritual.

quote:

ORIGINAL: eterno

Hi all,
I have been out for a while and I hope there is still some interest in this thread so here goes.

I read the following and...

"The Law isn't about getting yourself saved or having your sins removed.

It is about living a righteous life that pleases the Lord, to walk in His ways, to be holy and pure before Him, to grow closer to Him, and learn and understand His character. "



SO:

I can certainly agree with the the first statement..

The second however seems a little off-color for a new covenant Christian.

Our righteousness will never be more than dirty rags before GOD, so Christ gave us his righteousness.
HE has slain the old man with him on the cross and given us the Eternal life of Christ to live.
When we live to Christ it is his life in us. When we fail to.. it is sin living in us , not our old man. Christ living in us gives us the power to choose not to sin, it does not however remove freewill. Every thing from salvation to the word of GOD being written on our hearts was the planned "mystery" from the foundations of the world.

Therefore, I believe it is not what we can or will do but what Christ has done through his finished work. Can the Father look at any of us and see righteousness unless he is seeing Christ?

quote:

ORIGINAL: eterno

Hi all,
I have been out for a while and I hope there is still some interest in this thread so here goes.

I read the following and...

"The Law isn't about getting yourself saved or having your sins removed.

It is about living a righteous life that pleases the Lord, to walk in His ways, to be holy and pure before Him, to grow closer to Him, and learn and understand His character. "

quote:

Therefore, I believe it is not what we can or will do but what Christ has done through his finished work. Can the Father look at any of us and see righteousness unless he is seeing Christ?

quote:

ORIGINAL: wordtheology

In Galatians 5: 14, we are reminded that 'loving neighbor as self' fulfills the Law. Who could argue that we aren't expected to live according to this rule?


www.wordtheology.com

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bluethread

quote:

ORIGINAL: eterno

Hi all,
I have been out for a while and I hope there is still some interest in this thread so here goes.

I read the following and...

"The Law isn't about getting yourself saved or having your sins removed.

It is about living a righteous life that pleases the Lord, to walk in His ways, to be holy and pure before Him, to grow closer to Him, and learn and understand His character. "

quote:

Therefore, I believe it is not what we can or will do but what Christ has done through his finished work. Can the Father look at any of us and see righteousness unless he is seeing Christ?

Are you saying the serial murderer, adultarer, or thief is living just as righteously as one who walks in His ways in regard to these things?

quote:

ORIGINAL: eterno

I am saying this.. *If Jeffery Dahmer truly received Christ, then just like the thief on the cross with Christ he is forgiven, if Mother Teresa never truly received Christ, in spite of all the good works then she has blasphemed the testimony of the HOLY SPRIT and is not forgiven. Christ blood was powerful enough to "take away the sins of the whole world". However The FATHER will never force a unrepentant person to spend one second with HIM much less an eternity.
* Concept from The Grip of Grace, Max Lucado