RE: is suicide forgiven? (Full Version)

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love4theLord -> RE: is suicide forgiven? (3/13/2008 5:49:53 PM)

I read all these threads and some stories about this sad subject..I just cring when i hear the word because it is scary to me. I just can't imagine someone wanting to take their own life though. I mean I do understand if someone is severely mentally ill, I can kinda understand that because they are not in their right mind. BUT, the people that know they have mental illness should be getting themselves help and on meds. I would hope and pray that they get the help they deserve. My heart goes out to the people that are ill with this feeling.
For people that commit suicide just to do it, or are "having a hard life", or a little depressed or down in the dumps, I'm sorry but that doesn't warrant suicide..Nothing is that horrible that you have to commit suicide, again you get yourself Help if you feel upset or down in the dumps. Life is nothing to take lightly or anything to play with. God created us and it is up to HIM when it is time for us to go, and I know he wants us, no he expects us to lean on him, ask for guidance and help and turn to him and not take things into your own hands.
It is such a touchy subject and I really feel for anyone in this position because I know they are not in the right frame of mind..Again, for anyone else, it says suicide is a SIN..I believe for someone who is suffering from major mental problems or if they are ill, then yes since they are not in the right mind God knows this and he will take over, I believe they are forgiven. It just breaks my heart to hear the stories of the loved ones who have experiened this. I am so sorry you had to go through this and my prayers are with you..I just can't imagine. But you know what I am so glad to know that they are finally happy,joyful, and at peace in heaven with God and are no longer sad and hurting anymore. PRAISE GOD...
I would never ever agree that taking ones life is the answer for any problem, for those they just see this as an easy way out that is. Children or adult, it breaks my heart that a child would even think about this. But, I also thought about this, satan is out to destroy,steal, kill right, I think that that is satan or demons taking control of this person and its not just a mental illness, that is satan trying to kill.I know so because I knew someone that went thru this and said satan was talking to her and telling her how to do it, plan it out, when,where and how. BUT she was a new christian also, SO, satan hated that she turned her life over to GOD and went after her because that is what he does..steal, destroy, kill..I really feel this is the work of satan again because he puts these thoughts in our heads when he knows we are down....But, thank goodness the person I knew did not go thru with it, she caught it in time and realized what was happening and prayed and I am so glad it didn't happen..
Anyway, this is the work of satan, God will be there and he will forgive those who are truely suffering and want to be with the Lord. I can't imagine God saying nope, you can't come in because you were ill...NOPE, he knows they r ill and will take away their suffering...

I am praying for this subject of suicide and anyone who is having troubles..
kc



Carleejoan -> RE: is suicide forgiven? (3/16/2008 9:24:18 PM)

I strongly believe that satan is a liar and comes to kill, steal and destroy. He does this through thoughts put into our minds. That's why when we're in the "down" times of our lives with have to be discerning about the thoughts that come into our heads. I think everyone has had suicidal thoughts at one time or another. I know with my recent loss of my dear husband to cancer that I've been down to and that little thought comes across my mind. But that's all it does because I stick my nose in my Bible and put on worship music and focus on our dear Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ = our life giver and eternal life gift giver. I'm sure the Lord is gracious and compassionate to these dear ones who take their own lives and only in heaven will we know for sure his decisions. There are things about life and death people with critical illness struggle with daily. Like how far to go until it's obvious the treatments aren't working and the disease is taking over. It's angony to have to make the decision to end all treatment and kiss your loved one goodbye. But they wake up in heaven. I praise God for this.



GraceBro -> RE: is suicide forgiven? (3/16/2008 10:00:39 PM)

"But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us." Romans 5:8

What is suicide? It is sin.

What did Christ do with our sins? He took it away from the eyes of God never to be seen again.

If an individual is in Christ when they take their life they are now in the presence of the Lord.

Grace and Peace



1love1God1way -> RE: is suicide forgiven? (3/17/2008 3:05:05 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: GraceBro

If an individual is in Christ when they take their life they are now in the presence of the Lord.



The question is, aside from mental illnesses, would someone who is in Christ take their own life?



1love1God1way -> RE: is suicide forgiven? (3/17/2008 3:08:30 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Itlyn1kc

I read all these threads and some stories about this sad subject..I just cring when i hear the word because it is scary to me. I just can't imagine someone wanting to take their own life though. I mean I do understand if someone is severely mentally ill, I can kinda understand that because they are not in their right mind. BUT, the people that know they have mental illness should be getting themselves help and on meds. I would hope and pray that they get the help they deserve. My heart goes out to the people that are ill with this feeling.
For people that commit suicide just to do it, or are "having a hard life", or a little depressed or down in the dumps, I'm sorry but that doesn't warrant suicide..Nothing is that horrible that you have to commit suicide, again you get yourself Help if you feel upset or down in the dumps. Life is nothing to take lightly or anything to play with. God created us and it is up to HIM when it is time for us to go, and I know he wants us, no he expects us to lean on him, ask for guidance and help and turn to him and not take things into your own hands.
It is such a touchy subject and I really feel for anyone in this position because I know they are not in the right frame of mind..Again, for anyone else, it says suicide is a SIN..I believe for someone who is suffering from major mental problems or if they are ill, then yes since they are not in the right mind God knows this and he will take over, I believe they are forgiven. It just breaks my heart to hear the stories of the loved ones who have experiened this. I am so sorry you had to go through this and my prayers are with you..I just can't imagine. But you know what I am so glad to know that they are finally happy,joyful, and at peace in heaven with God and are no longer sad and hurting anymore. PRAISE GOD...
I would never ever agree that taking ones life is the answer for any problem, for those they just see this as an easy way out that is. Children or adult, it breaks my heart that a child would even think about this. But, I also thought about this, satan is out to destroy,steal, kill right, I think that that is satan or demons taking control of this person and its not just a mental illness, that is satan trying to kill.I know so because I knew someone that went thru this and said satan was talking to her and telling her how to do it, plan it out, when,where and how. BUT she was a new christian also, SO, satan hated that she turned her life over to GOD and went after her because that is what he does..steal, destroy, kill..I really feel this is the work of satan again because he puts these thoughts in our heads when he knows we are down....But, thank goodness the person I knew did not go thru with it, she caught it in time and realized what was happening and prayed and I am so glad it didn't happen..
Anyway, this is the work of satan, God will be there and he will forgive those who are truely suffering and want to be with the Lord. I can't imagine God saying nope, you can't come in because you were ill...NOPE, he knows they r ill and will take away their suffering...

I am praying for this subject of suicide and anyone who is having troubles..
kc


You have a soft heart. Bless you for that.

It is very difficult to understand the state of mind of someone who is suicidal.

I myself am a suicide attempt survivor, and still, looking back on that, have a hard time recalling all that went through my mind at those times. It is truly a terrible and dark place to be in life.



GraceBro -> RE: is suicide forgiven? (3/17/2008 11:17:17 PM)

quote:

The question is, aside from mental illnesses, would someone who is in Christ take their own life?


It's possible. Christians sin all the time and suicide could be a sin they commit. Thankfully, that sin was paid for long before the individual took their life. The reasons why a Christian commits suicide are secondary to the fact that the sin is forgiven and doesn't separate them from the love of God.

"All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting men's sins against them." 2 Corinthians 5:18-19

Grace and Peace



Juno_8 -> RE: is suicide forgiven? (3/18/2008 4:20:59 AM)

That is a question.
Is suicide forgiven?
I would like to think so.
I would like to think that someone that is so sick to take their life and are
incapable of seeing otherwise, they have mercy upon their soul. I hope they
can see the truth. I only hope they can see the truth people. I wish that their weakness is supported by strength.



Cephyr13 -> RE: is suicide forgiven? (3/19/2008 8:03:02 AM)

Since when were we put back under the Law?? Paul says:

Romans 8:1-2
1Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. 2For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death.

We're set free from the law, not enslaved to it. The Jews don't get this. And Paul constantly had to tell the Christians not to enslave themselves to the law and legalism again, because the Jews kept trying to mix old covenant with new covenant.

Not only God knows the answer to this. He tells us the answer to that question pretty blatantly a few times:

John 11:25
Jesus said to her, " I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in Me will live even if he dies,

Therefore, if you can die spiritually after you have accepted Jesus, it makes Jesus a liar, which isn't possible.

John 3:36
"He who believes in the Son has eternal life

John 5:24
"Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

So, if Jesus gives us eternal life, then we lose that eternal life, it was never "eternal" to begin with, because it was lost, which means He's a liar, which again, is not possible. And He says in the above verse that we DO NOT come into judgement. If we do not come into judgement, how can we be condemned by a sin?

John 10:28,29
and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand.
My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.

Are you stronger than God, even though it says you're not here? Are you strong enough to snatch yourself out of God's hand? He says differently here... Was Jesus sacrifice on the cross not enough to cover all of your sins? Was His sacrifice imperfect somehow? Did He not quite measure up enough to cover all of your sins? Were not all of your sins in the future from the time He died for them 2,000 years ago? Of course they were. When He said He covered all sin, He meant it. But because we have free will, it is our choice whether we want to accept His gift or not.

Paul also says that nothing can separate you from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus in Romans 8.

I'll leave you with one last verse and something to think about. In Psalm 32, David says, "Blessed is he whose transgressions are forgiven, whose sins are covered. Blessed is the man whose sin the LORD does not count against him." This was quoted in the New Testament too.

So, if sin was not counted against the Jews of the Old Testament who were sanctified by God, how can we who have Jesus be condemned by sins? And if sin is not counted against us either, how can it condemn us?

The Bible does not teach you can lose your salvation. Some verses appear to speak that way at first, but when examined more closely, you see they're speaking of quite the opposite.



Cephyr13 -> RE: is suicide forgiven? (3/19/2008 8:09:37 AM)

Yes, of course. The enemy can get you to believing his lies to the point at which you will want to kill yourself. I know firsthand. I was born again when I was 16, and in a split second my life went from rock bottom to cloud nine. It was awesome! That happiness in that freedom and all the sin dropping off of me was just amazing and lasted for a couple of years probably... before sin choked it.

As I got back into sin, I got back into believing the enemy's lies. I believed I was a burden to everyone and I was no good. I beat myself up over my sins. Eventually, I tried to drive off a bridge at 70mph with no seat belt. I could've easily killed myself that way, but God spared me. I escaped with just some cuts and bruises. I told God, "I'm comin' home to You now, because I don't want to be here anymore" before the incident. Afterwords, I vowed never to do that again. Once I combated the lies and fought for what was true instead of my emotional irrationalities seated in fear, I found a much brighter life on the other side. I'm married today and have an awesome life I wouldn't trade for anything. That was 7 years ago.

As Paul says in Romans 8: Nothing can separate you from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus. And since hell is basically the separation from God and all things good, that means I would not have gone there had I been successful at my suicide attempt. I would be with Him.



graceingod1 -> RE: is suicide forgiven? (3/19/2008 12:45:52 PM)

I think that is for God to Judge. Suicide is complicated.



slowreader -> RE: is suicide forgiven? (3/19/2008 10:03:08 PM)

I don,t think anyone can answer for God, if He condems suicide or He accepts it it is for God to decide. 2) nobody knows what goes through the mind of a person on the verge of taking his or her life. The last thing they may think is forgive me Lord and into thy hands I commit my spirit.



Cephyr13 -> RE: is suicide forgiven? (3/20/2008 10:36:03 AM)

Again, I ask, did Jesus' sacrifice on the cross not cover ALL sins?

And if Jesus said, "If you believe in Me, you will never die" and "When you believe in Me, I give you eternal life", then if we can lose eternal life by dying spiritual death, then we make Jesus a liar. Are you saying that Jesus lied when He said "If you believe in Me, you will never die?"

Did Jesus lie when He said nothing can snatch you from His or His Father's hand? Did Paul lie when he said nothing can separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus?

If suicide is not covered in the sacrifice of Jesus, then Jesus must not have been perfect nor have given a perfect sacrifice to cover ALL sin. And that means the Bible is a lie, because we're told ALL sin is covered by Jesus' sacrifice.



McKate -> RE: is suicide forgiven? (3/21/2008 7:17:33 AM)

I think that many of you are speaking based on the American perception of suicide, from the mindset that it is disgraceful and cowardly. In some cultures, choosing to end one's own life is regarded as a most brave and humbling act (and I'm not just speaking about Islamic Fundamentalist culture). Perhaps that notion is worth considering.

I do have to agree with those of you who say that it is not our place to pass judgement and that only "supreme rule" has the right to do so. I knew three people who had committed suicide. One of them had a family who desparately wanted her to have a Christian burial, but her church refused to hold a service. If anything, I'd place that in the "evil" category.



Keabird -> RE: is suicide forgiven? (3/21/2008 10:41:19 PM)

This is a subject close to my family also. My brother took his own life, and so did my husband's brother - long before we knew each other, so not connected. My oldest daughter has struggled a lot with depression and has made suicide attempts. She is a Christian.

The most recent attempt was the most serious. It seems her motive was to give her overseas boyfriend a wake-up call to drive him to coming to this country. It didn't work, but my dilemma was, how can I best help and counsel my daughter about these feelings of wanting to commit suicide? I prayed about it and waited on the Lord.

Over the next couple of days He gave me some scriptures. After praying through them, I felt to write my girl a letter, sharing hte scriptures and what I believed God was saying through them. They are verses many Christians know well. e.g "For I know the plans I have for you - plans for good and not for evil, plans to give you a future and a hope", and "before you were born, I knew you", "each one of my days was ordained before it ever came to be" - sorry if not quite word for word, but I'm guessing most of you will be familiar with these.

The other thing He impressed upon me was this: that as Christians, we consider sexual immorality a sin without having to think about it too much. To reject the life that GOd has given us, when He has clearly said that He has a GOOD plan, is to reject His plan, and is therefore a sin, even as we know sexual immorality is sin.

Therefore, to entertain thoughts of suicide is sin, just as entertaining thoughts of sexual immorality is sin, and should be shunned in the same way. To commit suicide then, is definitely sin.

As to what happens to a person's soul once it has left this life, only God can answer. None of us have that privileged knowledge and we don't know what kind of spiritual interchange may have happened. What we CAN be sure of is this: God is just. Wherever someone ends up will be the place that God justly allowed. It is not for us to worry over that, and worry is a sin also!

I don't know where my brother is. He had been saved as a teenager and walked with the Lord a while, but then fell away and spoke against Christianity. But I know my Lord is just, compassionate and loving, and that He has my brother's soul in hand. It's not my business to judge it now.

Some of you may have heard the testimony of Ian McCormack, who was stung by a jellyfish and died, unsaved. Unbeknown to him, a relative was led to pray for him, and he had an encounter with Christ in death. One of the things that caused him to come back was that the relative would not have known that he was saved unless he did. He went on to have an awesome evangelical ministry. Who is to say how many have gone on to eternity, saved although their loved ones on earth didn't know it? It's not for us to judge such things. What we DO need to do is to teach people that suicide is not the answer, that it is sin, and that God has the answers for their life.

In Him
Sherri



DreadPirateRandy -> RE: is suicide forgiven? (3/23/2008 4:58:22 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Keabird

As to what happens to a person's soul once it has left this life, only God can answer.


In the end, that's the answer to the question.

Personally, I cannot convince myself of suicide ever being right, whatever the case.

We're on His time, not our own.



Ephesians4_32 -> RE: is suicide forgiven? (3/23/2008 6:22:36 AM)

The question I ask is whether or not a born-again Christian can feel so hopeless that he'd take his own life.

Hebrews 6
19We have this hope as an anchor for the soul, firm and secure. It enters the inner sanctuary behind the curtain,

There is only one sin that can't be forgiven:

Matthew 12
31And so I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven.



Roberta_ -> RE: is suicide forgiven? (3/23/2008 7:33:50 PM)

(((((((((((((Keabird)))))))))))))



kountrykia45 -> RE: is suicide forgiven? (3/23/2008 8:55:21 PM)

You can be saved, but in a back-slidden condition, which means you fall out of fellowship with God, and make it to heaven as so by fire. Only God has the right to give,and take life, thats not our choice. I believe there is room in the grace of God for that person's final repentance from that sin of suicide. suicide is not the unforgivable sin. If the person was unsaved,then he, or she was in a lost condition headed for hell.



Lurker -> RE: is suicide forgiven? (3/23/2008 11:20:12 PM)

I believe that my Church teaches that suicide is a grave sin. HOWEVER, the Church also teaches that for it to be a sin, they must be capable of realizing the implications of their actions. Often people who are suicidal are unable to comprehend the full consequences of their actions. We believe that in those situations, they must simply be entrusted to the mercy of the Lord. The Lord is the final arbiter and is capable of perfect mercy and justice as well. What we should do here would be to offer our prayers to the Lord and ask them to show mercy on the soul of the deceased.



R2008 -> RE: is suicide forgiven? (3/31/2008 3:49:55 PM)

My question is what if the person is NOT sorry for doing it,

But Tells God if he views it a sin before they do it that there sorry to him and asks him for forgiveness for what they are about to do,and tells him they just can't deal with the pains of life and in there mind have to be released from the pain they feel, that they in there mind are just too depressed to go on and they also have never had a special someone to spend there life with and had unbelivable things to have to deal with mostly alone,

I know in Matthew it speaks of the only unforgivable sin is to speak against the HolyGhost,

Would God have mercy on someone if they in there mind were just so sad and depressed and lonely that in there mind they didn't see anything else to do, but did belive in God and in there view accepted Jesus before the act and also delt with being special needed and had to put up with a lot of unfair burdens,with no friends and no special someone in there life,would God maybe see threw that person's pain and grant mercy if that person just belived
and was dealing with some form of mental illness or depression?

Thanks.



jfaye -> RE: is suicide forgiven? (3/31/2008 4:58:00 PM)

R2008--As a believer, I believe that I am saved, even when I sin. Is it wrong to sin--absolutely!
Do I want to continue in sin--absolutely not! would I choose to take a step to transgress, which
is to 'step over the line', no--not as I see it now, but I am not in a state of EXTREME mental or
emotional stress, right now! Hopefully, if I found myself in such a state, the Lord would rescue me
from the decidedly purposeful and calculated attempt by Satan to remove me from God's plan
for my life, as He has in my past!

The enemy will so convince us, given an opportunity, that the only way out of a difficult situation,
the only way to have peace is to take our lives. It is the lie from the pit! He whispers to us, "Just
do it--everyone will be better off if you do it"! I know, because I had such a hate-filled lie whispered
to me, one time. It was many, many years ago, when I was at my wits end, feeling I was not having
a spiritual impact on my daughter that would enable her to love Him and want more of Him. We were
constantly quarreling and I hated it! She was 18 years old and very resentful of doing anything to
help around the house, choosing to hold up in her room, by herself and let the world rot around her!
She lashed out that it was because of me, that she was not interested in having a life lived wanting to know
more of Him! I can't tell you, how utterly painful that was and then came the whisper--"You're just in the
way--they'd all be better off without you!" Of course there is so much more to this story that I would not
share but I hope you get the picture!

It was an awful moment, to hear that whispered lie, and worse of all, to believe it!

Had I 'bought it' and acted on it, I do not believe I would have been damned for it--because like Eve
I was being deceived. But---I now know, that I would have missed out on all the joy and blessing I
have had in the 20 years since that day, including that daughter and her husband having two beautiful boys
and they are being raised to love God! The one 6 yr. old loves to memorize Scripture and just the other
day recited all of Psalm 1 to me, without hesitation, and without error, and with great joy! I am so thankful
to see this day!

Don't anyone, EVER, buy the lie of the enemy--he would do anything, to derail the plan the Lord has
for our lives to the point of murdering us with his lies! He would convince us that the worst day of our lives
is the last day we should live, and that it will never be better! WHAT A LIE from the pit of Hell itself!!![sm=fireanger.gif][sm=fireanger.gif][sm=fireanger.gif]



jfaye -> RE: is suicide forgiven? (3/31/2008 5:20:39 PM)

I would also add, that one of the 'lies' of Satan, I feel, is to convince us that our lives have
little value or worth to God or anyone else--that somehow, being alive is a mistake! That
is not so! God has purpose for each and everyone of us, and sometimes it is not immediately
apparent what that is. What if it is to reach just one other person with the Love of Christ?

What if, we miss out on so much of His blessing by deciding He didn't know what He was doing
when He allowed us to be born? He even addresses that issue by telling us 'how dare we question
the potter--we the created thing?"

He knows what He's doing, even when He allows pain, depression and despair into our lives. Many
of us would never have cried out to Him in that despair and found Him sufficient to our need, otherwise!
Some of us, never would have come to Him in any other way!

We must, trust Him, with the 'days of our lives' whether it makes sense to us or not! It's not for us
to decide He has made a mistake in creating us, as He has, for whatever He has in mind! We are
all a little part of a greater puzzle and without us, the puzzle just won't come out the same, as He intended!
Oh, He'll find a way to fix the puzzle but we are the worse off for Him having to find another piece to fill in
the gap we were created for!



heavenboundSR44 -> RE: is suicide forgiven? (3/31/2008 5:27:45 PM)

I believe that it is a sin but where your mental state is at if you are a bipolar with major depression and have a chemical imbalance that you would not be condemned. If your fully aware of what you are doing and what you will be doing to God and your family. It totally depends on your relation with God



R2008 -> RE: is suicide forgiven? (3/31/2008 6:57:54 PM)

Thanks jfaye for your input makes sense. [;)]



LivingParadox -> RE: is suicide forgiven? (3/31/2008 10:07:23 PM)

I get the idea of someone being mentaly ill not understanding the gravity of suicide but what about those driven to suicide by dispair, by the torture of others and the lack of caring from the rest? Would they be forgiven or would that be their final injustice?

In situations where I knew someone who had lost someone to suicide I've always tried to comfort them and let them know that someone who kills themself couldn't be in their right mind, period. When the hurt or dispair takes over to even consider such an act -- and it goes unheard -- well, I just don't know, I leave that up to God.



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