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RE: is suicide forgiven? - 4/1/2008 9:26:06 AM
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Kornelyus
Posts: 12
Joined: 4/1/2008
From: Istanbul, Turkey
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Jesus Christ is our Lord and Saviour.
When people accept that; all of his sins are forgiven.
So if the one suicide - generally this is not a normal behaviour
Jesus Christ forgives him/her of his foolish sin. It's so sad!
But... Again... It's a sin and as important as killing a man; killing himself/herself.
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RE: is suicide forgiven? - 4/1/2008 9:36:05 AM
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doinkdom
Posts: 3868
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: The higher lowcountry
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What is our role as a fellow Christian to the family of the person who committed suicide? The person who died has already reached their ultimate glorification, or not.
So surely, it is not to blame or discuss "what if's."
What if...
What if we comfort those in mourning, stand beside those grieving and love them with the love of the gospel? What if we encourage them in their hour of despair? What if we keep our mouths shut about condemnation (of which we really don't know) and instead preach to those left behind the true and whole gospel of Jesus Christ. The hope we have today and the hope we have tomorrow.
Of course, this would take longer than a handshake at an hour long funeral and might require us to invest some time and prayer into the lives of these people. They want the truth...by investing in them, they will get that truth.
Would that not be one part of the body helping another part heal and learn to glorify God in times of tragedy?
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RE: is suicide forgiven? - 4/1/2008 10:12:45 AM
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LivingParadox
Posts: 429
Joined: 2/28/2007
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I can't help but think of instances such as the teenage girl who committed suicide because of someone abusing her on the internet. There were no good Samaritans to step up in this case although many knew of her being tortured. I wonder if this really comforts the family to know this could have been prevented?
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RE: is suicide forgiven? - 4/1/2008 10:27:56 AM
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Cephyr13
Posts: 239
Joined: 12/13/2006
From: Dallas, TX
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All of these arguments are not addressing the main issue here, which is the word of Jesus. Jesus said that if you believe in Him, even though your body dies, you will never die. If you can die spiritually by committing suicide after you're born again, then that makes Jesus a liar.
Also, we're told by David in the OT (Ps 32:1-2) and by Paul in the New Testament (Romans 4:6-8) that our sins are not counted against us. How can the sin of suicide count against us if sins cannot be counted against us?
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- Brian
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RE: is suicide forgiven? - 4/1/2008 11:01:11 PM
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WhiteRoseBlessings
Posts: 26773
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Here, but subject to change . . . stay tuned!
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quote:
ORIGINAL: doinkdom
What is our role as a fellow Christian to the family of the person who committed suicide? The person who died has already reached their ultimate glorification, or not.
So surely, it is not to blame or discuss "what if's."
What if...
What if we comfort those in mourning, stand beside those grieving and love them with the love of the gospel? What if we encourage them in their hour of despair? What if we keep our mouths shut about condemnation (of which we really don't know) and instead preach to those left behind the true and whole gospel of Jesus Christ. The hope we have today and the hope we have tomorrow.
Of course, this would take longer than a handshake at an hour long funeral and might require us to invest some time and prayer into the lives of these people. They want the truth...by investing in them, they will get that truth.
Would that not be one part of the body helping another part heal and learn to glorify God in times of tragedy?
Connie . . . from the bottom of my heart, thank you.
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RE: is suicide forgiven? - 4/2/2008 9:27:58 AM
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jfaye
Posts: 702
Joined: 12/18/2007
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Dear Father, God,
Please do not allow anyone who reads this thread, looking for 'permission' to give in to the
temptation of the enemy, to find it here! I pray that the one who may be having such thoughts
will be protected by Your Spirit from carrying through with the 'murder of themselves, by such
'promptings' from the enemy of our souls and the one who constantly strives to throw in your
face his victories over Your people!
Give those, who despair of life, cause to rejoice. Give them more of Yourself than they ever imagined
possible for them to sense in their spirits. Give them the comfort of Your Holy Spirit and His promptings
to over-ride the promptings of the 'evil one'!
Let each of us, be so armed to do battle with the enemies, the demonic forces always looking
for a victim, that the very thought that enters the mind to do such a thing as to remove ourselves
from 'the playing field' would be instantly dismissed with the truth of your word. You have a plan
for each and every one of us, and it is not in 'the plan' that we presume to interfere with it or that
we interrupt the time You've set for us to be 'available' to work Your glory in and through us!
It is because of Jesus, that I am able to approach Your throne, with boldness, and in boldness I ask
these things in His name!! Amen!!
Psalm 139:14 "I will give thanks to You, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made;
Wonderful are Your works,
And my soul knows it very well.
15 My frame was not hidden from You,
When I was made in secret,
And skillfully wrought in the depths of the earth;
16 Your eyes have seen my unformed substance;
And in Your book were all written
The days that were ordained for me,
When as yet there was not one of them.
17 How precious also are Your thoughts to me, O God!
How vast is the sum of them!
18 If I should count them, they would outnumber the sand
When I awake, I am still with You.
19 O that You would slay the wicked, O God;
Depart from me, therefore, men of bloodshed.
20 For they speak against You wickedly,
And Your enemies take Your name in vain
(they presume to speak for You).
21 Do I not hate those who hate You, O LORD?
And do I not loathe those who rise up against You?
22 I hate them with the utmost hatred;
They have become my enemies.
23 Search me, O God, and know my heart;
Try me and know my anxious thoughts;
24 And see if there be any hurtful (or wicked) way in me,
And lead me in the everlasting way.
Jeremiah 29:11 "For I know the plans that I have for you,' declares the LORD, '
plans for welfare and not for calamity (suicide?) to give you a future and a hope.
12 'Then you will call upon Me and come and pray to Me, and I will listen to you.
13'You will seek Me and find Me when you search for Me with all your heart."
[emphasis and blue font, my thoughts]
< Message edited by jfaye -- 4/2/2008 9:35:24 AM >
_____________________________
Thankfully His,
Janice
"We cannot appreciate God's mercy until we realize He is first the God of justice!"
"O taste and see that the LORD is good;
How blessed is the one who takes refuge in Him!"
Psalm 34:8
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RE: is suicide forgiven? - 4/2/2008 2:12:26 PM
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doinkdom
Posts: 3868
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: The higher lowcountry
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: WhiteRoseBlessings
quote:
ORIGINAL: doinkdom
What is our role as a fellow Christian to the family of the person who committed suicide? The person who died has already reached their ultimate glorification, or not.
So surely, it is not to blame or discuss "what if's."
What if...
What if we comfort those in mourning, stand beside those grieving and love them with the love of the gospel? What if we encourage them in their hour of despair? What if we keep our mouths shut about condemnation (of which we really don't know) and instead preach to those left behind the true and whole gospel of Jesus Christ. The hope we have today and the hope we have tomorrow.
Of course, this would take longer than a handshake at an hour long funeral and might require us to invest some time and prayer into the lives of these people. They want the truth...by investing in them, they will get that truth.
Would that not be one part of the body helping another part heal and learn to glorify God in times of tragedy?
Connie . . . from the bottom of my heart, thank you.
{{{{{{{WhiteRose}}}}}}}}}
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RE: is suicide forgiven? - 4/3/2008 2:52:43 AM
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Beyleigh
Posts: 4
Joined: 4/1/2008
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I thought that suicide was the only unforgivable sin. If you kill yourself, well you can't ask for forgiveness because you're dead. And if you do it before you pull the trigger or whatever you do, you're not REALLY sorry. Else you wouldn't do it?
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RE: is suicide forgiven? - 4/3/2008 3:36:40 AM
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zagreb
Posts: 2
Joined: 4/3/2008
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My family has a problem. It comits suicide. 2 of my cousins in my generation- My son struggles daily- my daughters (twins -17) All of us have spent time in hospital for depression. I struggle daily with the peace I know I would find in my Savior. I dont even really want an afterlife. Just disssolve. I think Jesus name would almost gurantee this for me.
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RE: is suicide forgiven? - 4/3/2008 12:06:59 PM
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DenimDiva
Posts: 6076
Joined: 9/28/2007
From: CA
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zagreb- I hope your family is able to get the help they need soon.
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RE: is suicide forgiven? - 4/3/2008 12:08:55 PM
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doinkdom
Posts: 3868
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: The higher lowcountry
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: zagreb
My family has a problem. It comits suicide. 2 of my cousins in my generation- My son struggles daily- my daughters (twins -17) All of us have spent time in hospital for depression. I struggle daily with the peace I know I would find in my Savior. I dont even really want an afterlife. Just disssolve. I think Jesus name would almost gurantee this for me.
You said "would"...are you a born again Christian today?
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RE: is suicide forgiven? - 4/3/2008 12:38:33 PM
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rcjames
Posts: 5032
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
Status: offline
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This is always an interesting subject, sometimes emotional, sometimes rowdy, but always interesting.
There are the two extremes of thought; on the one hand you have the folks that believe that any uncomfessed sin would negate a trip to Glory. On the other end of the specturm you have the Ultra OSAS who believe that if the person thought they were a Christian that they could be raping a child in the middle of Sunday communion, indiscriminately killing folks with a machine gun, kill himself and the next instant be in Glory.
I personally do not agree with either of those.
I will offer two verses for consideration;
(Heb 10:26) For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
(Heb 10:27) But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
and
(2Co 5:10) For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
Christians are going to stand before Christ for judgment (judgment not necessarily condemnation) I think Christ will be a fair Judge and will consider all things (was the person really saved or was he a Matthew 7 believer, etc).
My first inclination is that the person who commits suicide was not a Christian because they were not obedient to Scripture (casting our cares on Him comes to mind, do not worry is another). This may not be the case every time, but for sure some of the time.
But this verse carries a lot of weight in my mind;
(Luk 6:46) And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: is suicide forgiven? - 4/3/2008 6:47:41 PM
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ladyichigo
Posts: 447
Joined: 10/23/2007
From: Makiki
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: doinkdom
What is our role as a fellow Christian to the family of the person who committed suicide? The person who died has already reached their ultimate glorification, or not.
So surely, it is not to blame or discuss "what if's."
What if...
What if we comfort those in mourning, stand beside those grieving and love them with the love of the gospel? What if we encourage them in their hour of despair? What if we keep our mouths shut about condemnation (of which we really don't know) and instead preach to those left behind the true and whole gospel of Jesus Christ. The hope we have today and the hope we have tomorrow.
Of course, this would take longer than a handshake at an hour long funeral and might require us to invest some time and prayer into the lives of these people. They want the truth...by investing in them, they will get that truth.
Would that not be one part of the body helping another part heal and learn to glorify God in times of tragedy?
Wish more people in the church we used to go to thought this way during our family's hardest moment.
_____________________________
Mari
Attending church and being confirmed does not define what a Christian is, though it may define a “religious” person.
David Wright - AiG
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RE: is suicide forgiven? - 4/3/2008 7:13:10 PM
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ladyichigo
Posts: 447
Joined: 10/23/2007
From: Makiki
Status: offline
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Thinking back, when I thought if I would ever seem dad again, I felt like I needed the answer to be yes. I needed to hear that I will see my dad again in Heaven because the devastation of losing him so suddenly by his own hands was overwhelming. I wasn't sure if I could have withstood the blow that I may not.
I'm at a point in my life where my faith does not rely on the knowledge of where my dad will spend eternity. Where he spends eternity does not affect my hope and faith I have in Christ. I may or may not see my dad again, and yes it's sad to think that I might not....I guess my point is, I don't have time to mope around thinking that I might not. I don't have time to think about the dead. What's done is done. I trust God and know He is just. Right now, I have a role to play, and that is to be Christ's witness to the living...especially my children.
If you know of a family who is going through suicide,...please pray for them, comfort them, and most importantly show them Christ's compassion and love.
_____________________________
Mari
Attending church and being confirmed does not define what a Christian is, though it may define a “religious” person.
David Wright - AiG
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RE: is suicide forgiven? - 4/4/2008 6:56:25 AM
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Casper22
Posts: 51
Joined: 3/29/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Ephesians4_32
quote:
ORIGINAL: slewis
I have question that was asked at Sunday School. Someone wanted to know what do you say to someone's family member that have committed suicide? They want to know if that person goes to heaven or not and are they forgiven? When I searched the bible, I found that Judas hanged himself and Saul fell on his sword when his armour bearer would not kill him. Can anyone comment on this subject to help me out. I informed the class that I would research the matter and get back to them.
God would know the answer to who is saved and who isn't. None of us truly knows another person's heart or exactly why God allows mental illness and depression. Do we know if all our relatives went to heaven or hell? I hope to see people in heaven that I hadn't been sure about before they died.
This subject is very near and dear to my heart it made my heart stop when I saw the subject. I am a survivor of this. My family has a history of mental instability and theres a history in my family for suicide. I will just tell you about my mom. When I was 18 she began a spiral into depression she wouldn't seek help because her Four Squair Holiness Church of God told her it showed a lack of faith if she trusted man and there prescription drugs for her healing. I was furious and scared for her but she made a cognitive decision at the time to follow her Church leadership. There were days were things were fine then there were days were she would just sit and cry and pray and read her bible then one day I got up and got ready for work and mom was up and she got up and just hugged me and said you know I love you dont you I said yes mom I know I love you to. She just smiled at me and said today is going to be a good day the Lord is going to take care of everything for now on. I just thought thank you Lord shes coming out of it. Well I leave for work and about 1:30 I get a call from my Nana she is hysterical all I could get out of her was come home now its your mom. I just bolted and went strate home I just knew she was dead. When I get home cops are everywhere so is the ambulance and the coroner had just pulled up ahead of me. When I got out Nana ran over to me and said its your mom honey shes dead. I just went numb and I ran into the house and there she was laying on the couch. She looked like she was asleep but she wasnt she had somehow gotten ahold of some tranqs and she ended her life with them. The most distressing part of it all was the why and when. She left no note just a scribbled paragraph of some of the beatitudes on the table next to her. The rest after that is such a blur it was like a stop motion movie that was being put in slow motion. But the funeral was horrible because I had to deal with her Church who I blamed for her death. I remember the pasters daughter going up to her mom and she asked her mom is Patsy in heaven now and her mom said the most horrible thing in front of me she said no suicides dont go to heaven they commit an unforgivable sin when they die like that I just lost it right there I couldn't believe what I just heard! It was there Church that brainwashed my mom to begin with, I just couldn't take what I just heard and things got out of hand and im going to leave it at that cause I want to say this and this may cause a stink and cause people to not think to highly of me because of the no holds barred sternness but.... I do not CARE what anyone says there is not a bible verse anyone can show me that proves my moms been burning in hell for 13 years now for taking her own life. You serve your uncaring callous unforgiving Jesus I will serve mine his grace was good enough to save my momma too. My family being the perfect little grace killers that they are still to this day try to convince me my mom did not go to heaven my aunt told me I might as well spit on the Lords face for raising my sister to believe she would see my mom again someday. My mom was sick depression is an illness maybe even a disease I dont know but she took her last breath loving her Lord she just felt she had no more options that dieing was all she had left to her. And if God is encapable of seeing that kind of pain and anguish and is encapable of forgiving a person who isnt in there right mind to begin with then tell me PLEASE tell me what buisness do we have serving him anyway!? He is a false God if his love and grace is only 1 dimentional he can forgive Samson but not my mom death is death suicide is suicide no matter the flavor or reasoning excuses behind i. I dont know I dont understand it im sorry im so sorry it still hurts so much to here such things from those who dont even have a clue with how there words can hurt worse than any knife. At least have some cooth about it if Arminianism is your thing and I dont say that with disrespect but some of you need to learn better social skills and learn the right time and wrong time to say things like that I dont care how strongly you believe about your own personal doctrin. Dont destroy a persons hope while there in mourning you want get the respect you think you need for it you will get exactly what you deserve and it want be a God bless you brother thank you. I still havent got over it the anger overtones are deep in this I am so sorry
I do apologise for any toes I just stepped on I meant no wrong but I felt I needed to say what was said I just cant believe God is that evil for my moms sake and mine if it is true I want no part of him anymore I would rather go to hell and be with my mom that loved(s) me than be with a hateful thing like that that only loves you part of the time
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RE: is suicide forgiven? - 4/4/2008 11:20:10 AM
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doinkdom
Posts: 3868
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: The higher lowcountry
Status: offline
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{{{{{mari}}}}}}}
{{{{{Casper22}}}}}
I'm so very sorry that you've had to endure seasons of pain and grief alone.
May you find comfort in the hope of our Lord.
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RE: is suicide forgiven? - 4/4/2008 12:54:56 PM
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jfaye
Posts: 702
Joined: 12/18/2007
Status: offline
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My heart goes out to you, 'keabird', 'zagrebs', 'Mari', 'Casper' and any others who have had
to be in your places!
I would say, that the determining factor in any person's life, upon their death, whether it be
by 'accident', natural causes, murder or suicide is what they did with Jesus in their lives.
Was He trusted to forgive them of their sins, past, present and future? Did He do enough
to pay for their sins, in their hearts and minds?
Anyone can be in sin at the moment of their death. What about the guy whirling down the highway,
spinning out and maybe letting out a curse upon impact that causes His death? What about the person
who has gossiped about their neighbor and has a heart attack before acknowledging it?
It isn't a matter of a sin that cannot be forgiven, because sin is forgiven in our relationship with Jesus!
But--my fear, in this discussion is for the one who is in a time of despair searching this site for some
hope! I want there to be 'hope' for a better day for them. I don't want to give them 'permission' to
end their problems, be done with their depression because of the one who seeks to murder them by
whispering the lies into their ear.
There will always be a better day! Don't forfeit your life on a moment in time, whether it be a day, a
week or even a year--there is hope in Jesus. This life is not what it's all about! It's a time we prepare
to meet our Savior and a time to be used for His glory! Don't let the enemies of our souls deprive you
and Him of that joy and blessing to yourselves and others! You are very important in His kingdom plan
and you do not want to miss out on that realization!!!!
I believe, that the more the potential for us to be used in a significant way, or the more we are used in
such ways, the more the enemy will try and convince us to shorten our lives, and derail us by luring us
into all sorts of sin, not suicide only but if he can't get us to murder ourselves, he will throw other bait
out and hope we will be put on the shelf in some way!
Don't let it happen--be sober, be ready and be on alert for there is an enemy roaring, and prowling
looking to succeed in ending and preventing our usefulness to the kingdom plan of God!
Be aware of the schemes of the devil!  
_____________________________
Thankfully His,
Janice
"We cannot appreciate God's mercy until we realize He is first the God of justice!"
"O taste and see that the LORD is good;
How blessed is the one who takes refuge in Him!"
Psalm 34:8
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RE: is suicide forgiven? - 4/4/2008 4:29:55 PM
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DenimDiva
Posts: 6076
Joined: 9/28/2007
From: CA
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ladyichigo
If you know of a family who is going through suicide,...please pray for them, comfort them, and most importantly show them Christ's compassion and love.
I don't think that could've been said loud enough!
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RE: is suicide forgiven? - 4/4/2008 4:37:55 PM
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ladyichigo
Posts: 447
Joined: 10/23/2007
From: Makiki
Status: offline
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(((Casper)))
It is truly saddening how you and your family were treated by your church and its pastor. I think most churches and their pastors really do not know how to deal with suicides. It was very wrong of that woman for her to say that your mother was condemned to hell. It’s wrong because she had no clue regarding the state of your mother’s heart. Only God truly knows.
This is the verse that was given to me by my youth pastor on the night my dad committed suicide. And I pray that you will find comfort in it as I have.
Romans 8:35-39 (NIV)
"Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall trouble or hardship or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword? As it is written:
"For your sake we face death all day long;
we are considered as sheep to be slaughtered." No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord."
Surely right now, you are enduring so much pain. I understand. There’s a mixture of guilt and anger. Guilty because you were not there…and that perhaps you would’ve been able to prevent it from happening. I’ve kicked myself time and time again, “I should have stayed home!” You often think, "If only I could see her for one last time". You’re angry at your church and your pastor because they could have done something too. And they could have been compassionate toward you and your family. And instead they showed callousness, and looked down on you like you or your family are not worth their time. You question their integrity, "How do they call themselves a Christian?" You’ve asked God “Why?” And maybe you’ve received the answer but you may be unaware of it as you are overwhelmed with grief.
I’ve asked God again and again, “Why?” He said to me each time “Trust Me, and do not lean on your own understanding”. He said to trust Him. So, I am. I trust God. He is just. He is fair. Honestly, it's been difficult to trust something you can't "see", but I feel, and I have seen the work He does and has done through it all.
I know He loves His creation.
Psalm 139:13-16 (NIV)“ For you created my inmost being;
you knit me together in my mother's womb. I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made;
your works are wonderful,
I know that full well. My frame was not hidden from you
when I was made in the secret place.
When I was woven together in the depths of the earth, your eyes saw my unformed body.
All the days ordained for me
were written in your book
before one of them came to be.”
He loves my dad. He loves your mother. He loves you. He understands your pain, and He suffers with you. Your mother is so precious to Him. Trust Him and find comfort in Him. Your church, and your pastor are humans. They are temporary. The pain you feel now, and the suffering you are enduring are also temporary, and incomparable to the glory that awaits. God had a purpose for your mother, and I do believe her purpose here on earth was served.
Grieve and mourn as much as you need. If you don’t, the longer it will take for you to heal. If you need help with the grieving process, then seek help from a Christian Counselor who is familiar with grief associated with suicide. It's okay to be angry. It's okay to be sad....but don't forget to thank God for all the wonderful things He has in store for you.
Holy Spirit, embrace Casper with your comfort. Lord give her strength to endure. Help her to trust You.
< Message edited by ladyichigo -- 4/4/2008 4:46:17 PM >
_____________________________
Mari
Attending church and being confirmed does not define what a Christian is, though it may define a “religious” person.
David Wright - AiG
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RE: is suicide forgiven? - 4/4/2008 5:21:43 PM
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JimboFletch
Posts: 5848
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Beyleigh
I thought that suicide was the only unforgivable sin.
Then you think wrong because that is not what Jesus called the unforgivable sin. Go read your Bible and come back and apologize for your statement.
It's a really good idea to check what the Bible actually says before giving advice as if it comes from the scriptures. A LOT of harm can be done if you don't and THAT is something you might be held accountable for doing.
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