RE: Earth Basics (Full Version)

All Forums >> [Theology] >> Science & Origins

[Poll]

Earth Basics


The Earth is round, and gravitational attraction is in force
  34% (36)
The Earth is flat. You can fall off the edge.
  1% (2)
The Earth does not rotate on an axis. It stands still
  1% (2)
The Earth rotates around the Sun
  31% (33)
Science is a tool of Satan, as is education in general
  1% (2)
Science is neither moral nor immoral.
  28% (30)


Total Votes : 105
(last vote on : 8/14/2008 10:02:09 PM)
(Poll will run till: -- )


Message


cow451 -> RE: Earth Basics (3/13/2008 10:38:26 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: unclemonkey

ORIGINAL:cow451
quote:

It's a soapbox, not a pulpit. You'll have to settle for Bible-waving.

So you are on your soapbox, waving the Bible, proclaiming that there is absolutely NO Scriptural support for evolution.
I agree completely. So, please explain why anyone should believe in evolution considering that the “scientific” evidence for it consists of little more than circular reasoning and bait and switch con games.

You were doing fine until your last sentence when you lapsed back into the second-grade sunday school lesson.




cow451 -> RE: Earth Basics (3/13/2008 10:40:34 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: unclemonkey

ORIGINAL: stellaluna
quote:

How come everyone's talking about evolution in this earth-revolving thread and everyone's talking about the earth revolving in the evolution thread?

Why should these two threads be the exceptions?

quote:

I just came back from a trip in which I flew halfway across the US.

I will apologize for this up front because I just can't pass it up.
I bet your arms are tired.


Shows what can happen when one interprets a statement too literally.




EverLearning -> RE: Earth Basics (3/13/2008 11:37:01 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: stellaluna

How come everyone's talking about evolution in this earth-revolving thread .


Because YECers have to connect anything they can't explain away to that evil evolution so that they don't have to actually make a valid arguement.




unclemonkey -> RE: Earth Basics (3/14/2008 1:12:03 AM)

ORIGINAL:cow451
quote:

You were doing fine until your last sentence when you lapsed back into the second-grade sunday school lesson.

Why are you so opposed to Sunday school classes teaching the truth.




cow451 -> RE: Earth Basics (3/14/2008 12:34:31 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: unclemonkey

ORIGINAL:cow451
quote:

You were doing fine until your last sentence when you lapsed back into the second-grade sunday school lesson.

Why are you so opposed to Sunday school classes teaching the truth.


That's what they should teach. I object to teaching a religious concept and calling it science. Doing so is not honest.




phosadaud -> RE: Earth Basics (3/14/2008 3:20:29 PM)

What I object to is folks making theories and putting them on the same level as Scripture. Scripture only tells us that God created this all and it was good. No more. No less. There is nothing wrong with hypothesizing how He did it, but to make that hypothesis religious doctrine is poor exegesis.




drmark -> RE: Earth Basics (3/14/2008 4:29:53 PM)

quote:

Scripture only tells us that God created this all and it was good. No more. No less.
You may want to consider a more complete version of Scripture, phosadaud. I read that time, space, and energy were created on day 1, followed by a separation of elemental matter on day 2 and the formation of earth on day 3. Then God produced vegetation on the earth that day which was only capable of reproducing according to its various kinds, never evolving into some other kind. Celestial bodies were made on day 4 and all animals on days 5 and 6. The marine and avian creatures were all created to reproduce according to their specific kinds. This biological fact of creation which precludes evolution also holds true for the created terrestrial animals and humans, which were created uniquely in God's Image and not evolved from primates.

So, I see just a little more info than "God created and it was good", doncha think?




DanJames -> RE: Earth Basics (3/14/2008 7:13:52 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: EverLearning

quote:

ORIGINAL: stellaluna

How come everyone's talking about evolution in this earth-revolving thread .


Because YECers have to connect anything they can't explain away to that evil evolution so that they don't have to actually make a valid arguement.


That's a little over-generalized don't you think? Have you really heard no valid arguments?




DanJames -> RE: Earth Basics (3/14/2008 7:21:01 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: phosadaud

What I object to is folks making theories and putting them on the same level as Scripture. Scripture only tells us that God created this all and it was good. No more. No less. There is nothing wrong with hypothesizing how He did it, but to make that hypothesis religious doctrine is poor exegesis.


I think we can hypothesize on how God created the universe within the constraints of earnest Biblical exegesis. Meaning we draw truth from scripture, and build on that with science. For instance, we know that God created the heavens and the earth on the first day. How? How can you create matter from a vacuum? If you want to believe that God has always operated within the realm of natural laws, you can hypothesize on how he did it. Does stretching space create matter? Virtual particles?

The problem arises when you hear about someone digging up a bone in the dirt and saying that the thing died millions of years before what careful exegesis of scripture reveals is the first day of creation.

Again, there's nothing wrong with hypothesizing on how God created, but we should probably start with how He told us he did it, and work from there.




EverLearning -> RE: Earth Basics (3/14/2008 8:11:30 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DanJames

That's a little over-generalized don't you think? Have you really heard no valid arguments?


Very few that have any merit.




drmark -> RE: Earth Basics (3/14/2008 8:16:02 PM)

quote:

Very few that have any merit.
Isn't it amazing, DanJames, how narrow-minded becomes the faith of those who seek to understand our origins?!




drmark -> RE: Earth Basics (3/14/2008 8:18:09 PM)

Five days before God created Adam and Eve. You can do the rest of the math based on the meticulous genealogies of Genesis, 1 Chronicles, and Luke. This isn't rocket science, AFI!




AllForIsrael -> RE: Earth Basics (3/14/2008 8:25:12 PM)

Whatever.




cow451 -> RE: Earth Basics (3/14/2008 8:27:16 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: drmark

quote:

Very few that have any merit.
Isn't it amazing, DanJames, how narrow-minded becomes the faith of those who seek to understand our origins?!


It boggles the mind.[sm=rollingeyes.gif]




drmark -> RE: Earth Basics (3/14/2008 8:28:48 PM)

quote:

Whatever.
Uh, no. This is directly from the historical narrative account of the origin of the universe by the only Eyewitness. "Whatever" is whatever you and I want to make-believe happened!




drmark -> RE: Earth Basics (3/14/2008 8:31:41 PM)

quote:

It boggles the mind.
Not really, cow. It's all clearly prophesied in 2 Peter 3:3-7.




phosadaud -> RE: Earth Basics (3/14/2008 8:47:05 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: drmark

quote:

Scripture only tells us that God created this all and it was good. No more. No less.
You may want to consider a more complete version of Scripture, phosadaud. I read that time, space, and energy were created on day 1, followed by a separation of elemental matter on day 2 and the formation of earth on day 3. Then God produced vegetation on the earth that day which was only capable of reproducing according to its various kinds, never evolving into some other kind. Celestial bodies were made on day 4 and all animals on days 5 and 6. The marine and avian creatures were all created to reproduce according to their specific kinds. This biological fact of creation which precludes evolution also holds true for the created terrestrial animals and humans, which were created uniquely in God's Image and not evolved from primates.

So, I see just a little more info than "God created and it was good", doncha think?


It tells us that He did but again, it doesn't tell us how. Did He snap his fingers and "poof" everything appeared? Did He build us up like a clay model? Sculpt us like a sculpture? Slowly over time (since Scripture does not say that each day of creation was a 24 earth day or a God day which Scripture tells us is a lot longer than an earth day) change and tranform until He reached the finished product? We don't know. Apparently, God didn't find the "how" to be central to our faith. He finds the fact He did to be central. Science doesn't tell us the who, it can only theorizes as to what it looked like. There is no conflict unless religion puts things into Scripture that are not there or unless science tries to go beyond it's capabilities and tell us the Who.

It's funny how people get so upset over science trying to describe something that Scripture doesn't describe. And have little kindergarten fits over someone not following their personal pet theory that is NOT written in the Word of God but rather by someone who calls themselves a "Creationist" which apparently means they must have the authority of Scripture the way folks bow down to their theories...

But, I'm the narrowminded one because I believe in Scripture's authority over Dr. Special Creationism 101's authority.... [8|]




phosadaud -> RE: Earth Basics (3/14/2008 8:50:24 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: drmark

Five days before God created Adam and Eve. You can do the rest of the math based on the meticulous genealogies of Genesis, 1 Chronicles, and Luke. This isn't rocket science, AFI!


It wasn't until Day 4 that the conditions for an earth day were even created so either God was going by His own creation's time before it was even set up to do so, or He was creating on His time and we know from Scripture that His days are not our days.

And if you read the "meticiulous genealogies" in Scripture, you will find many apparent contradictions. Why? Because unlike how we do genealogies today, back then, geneaologies were usually "telescoping". I'll let you look that up if you aren't familiar with this.




drmark -> RE: Earth Basics (3/14/2008 9:19:36 PM)

quote:

It tells us that He did but again, it doesn't tell us how. Did He snap his fingers and "poof" everything appeared?
Sorry that you're still using that abridged version, phosadaud. Let's see if I can help you out. In Genesis 1 we read that God amar eight times during six days. The original Hebrew word means "say, speak, or command". Coupled with Colossians 1:16, it seems quite evident that Jesus Christ, the Word (John 1:1-3) was the Agent by Which Creator God spoke the universe into existence.

quote:

Did He build us up like a clay model? Sculpt us like a sculpture?
Well again, it's pretty straightforward in Genesis 2:7 that God formed, fashioned, framed (Hebrew yatsar) Adam from dirt and breathed life into him. No evolution involved!

quote:

Slowly over time (since Scripture does not say that each day of creation was a 24 earth day or a God day which Scripture tells us is a lot longer than an earth day) change and tranform until He reached the finished product?
No, phosadaud, Moses clearly writes six times "evening and morning, the first through sixth day" so that we can know with certainty the length of creation days. And please don't bother bringing up 2 Peter 3:8 - that is an unmistakeable word simile used to express God's patience in wanting all to be saved.

quote:

We don't know.
Sorry, I know what text God inspired Moses to write in His authoritative and inerrant Word. I accept Him at His Word.

quote:

Apparently, God didn't find the "how" to be central to our faith. He finds the fact He did to be central.
Then why did He spend so much effort on explaining all these details in a way even 19th century BC ex-slaves could understand? How do you pick and choose which passages are "central" and which are fairy tale fiction?

quote:

It's funny how people get so upset over science trying to describe something that Scripture doesn't describe.
It's more sad than funny that people get so upset over trying to make man's science fit something that Scripture doesn't describe.

quote:

but rather by someone who calls themselves a "Creationist" which apparently means they must have the authority of Scripture the way folks bow down to their theories...
And would you agree Jesus called Himself a "creationist" in Mark 10:6. Or would that be bowing down to "His theory"?

quote:

But, I'm the narrowminded one because I believe in Scripture's authority
As long as Scripture doesn't contradict neo-Darwinism?




drmark -> RE: Earth Basics (3/14/2008 9:25:04 PM)

quote:

It wasn't until Day 4 that the conditions for an earth day were even created
Nonsense! The existence of the sun is irrelevant to the duration of earth's rotation on its axis.

quote:

we know from Scripture that His days are not our days.
Chapter and verse, please.

quote:

I'll let you look that up if you aren't familiar with this.
Oh no, please explain it to me. I'm most interested in how 4000 years of genealogies can be "telescoping" into 100,000+ alleged years of H sapiens existence!




phosadaud -> RE: Earth Basics (3/14/2008 9:46:23 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: drmark

quote:

It tells us that He did but again, it doesn't tell us how. Did He snap his fingers and "poof" everything appeared?
Sorry that you're still using that abridged version, phosadaud. Let's see if I can help you out. In Genesis 1 we read that God amar eight times during six days. The original Hebrew word means "say, speak, or command". Coupled with Colossians 1:16, it seems quite evident that Jesus Christ, the Word (John 1:1-3) was the Agent by Which Creator God spoke the universe into existence.


And what does that look like?

quote:

quote:

Did He build us up like a clay model? Sculpt us like a sculpture?
Well again, it's pretty straightforward in Genesis 2:7 that God formed, fashioned, framed (Hebrew yatsar) Adam from dirt and breathed life into him. No evolution involved!

Funny... I'm still not reading where it shows us what this looks like. And even funnier, evolution would actually say ultimately we would have begun from the dirt as well...

quote:

quote:

Slowly over time (since Scripture does not say that each day of creation was a 24 earth day or a God day which Scripture tells us is a lot longer than an earth day) change and tranform until He reached the finished product?
No, phosadaud, Moses clearly writes six times "evening and morning, the first through sixth day" so that we can know with certainty the length of creation days. And please don't bother bringing up 2 Peter 3:8 - that is an unmistakeable word simile used to express God's patience in wanting all to be saved.


It doesn't say there was a sunrise and a sunset. It says there was a beginning and an end to that day. Ereb: evening or end of the day. Boqer: morning or beginning of the day. No contradiction.

quote:

quote:

We don't know.
Sorry, I know what text God inspired Moses to write in His authoritative and inerrant Word. I accept Him at His Word.


It is His authoritative and inerrant Word. Our interpretation sometimes leaves something to be desired.

quote:

quote:

Apparently, God didn't find the "how" to be central to our faith. He finds the fact He did to be central.
Then why did He spend so much effort on explaining all these details in a way even 19th century BC ex-slaves could understand? How do you pick and choose which passages are "central" and which are fairy tale fiction?


He doesn't explain in detail what His creation of all this looked like as I have shown before. It's a grand total of 1 chapter in Scripture that tells us that God created all of this: He created this, He created that, it was good.

quote:

quote:

It's funny how people get so upset over science trying to describe something that Scripture doesn't describe.
It's more sad than funny that people get so upset over trying to make man's science fit something that Scripture doesn't describe.


You're correct. Scripture doesn't describe it, so science cannot be trying to "fit" into Scripture. Science is rather looking at something Scripture doesn't describe. It doesn't need to "fit" because it doesn't conflict.

quote:

quote:

but rather by someone who calls themselves a "Creationist" which apparently means they must have the authority of Scripture the way folks bow down to their theories...
And would you agree Jesus called Himself a "creationist" in Mark 10:6. Or would that be bowing down to "His theory"?


I am a creationist. I am just not a "special" creationist that follows sites like AIG. I believe 100% what Jesus says in Mark 10:6.

quote:

quote:

But, I'm the narrowminded one because I believe in Scripture's authority
As long as Scripture doesn't contradict neo-Darwinism?


I am actually open to whatever God's creations shows us. Science doesn't have all the answers. It only tries to look at what we know and tries to look at what that tells us about history. Scripture is all Truth but it doesn't tell me how to reboot my computer when it crashes.




phosadaud -> RE: Earth Basics (3/14/2008 9:54:06 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: drmark

quote:

It wasn't until Day 4 that the conditions for an earth day were even created
Nonsense! The existence of the sun is irrelevant to the duration of earth's rotation on its axis.


True. But earth wasn't created on Day 1 either.

quote:

quote:

we know from Scripture that His days are not our days.
Chapter and verse, please.


Here's one: Psalm 90:4

quote:

quote:

I'll let you look that up if you aren't familiar with this.
Oh no, please explain it to me. I'm most interested in how 4000 years of genealogies can be "telescoping" into 100,000+ alleged years of H sapiens existence!


Here is a good explanation. But basically, telescoping means "hitting the highlights" not a person by person description of everyone in the family history. It is actually the only way to take Scriptural literally and believe that it is inerrant. If you do not believe in telescoping genealogies, that means there MUST be mistakes in the OT genealogies. If you believe in telescoping genealogies, the differences mean absolutely nothing more than differences in focus and the geneaologies can be read as 100% correct and 100% literal.

And contrary to how we do genealogies today, most cultures in ancient history used telescoping genealogies: including the Hebrews.




unclemonkey -> RE: Earth Basics (3/15/2008 7:07:04 AM)

ORIGINAL:cow451
quote:

I object to teaching a religious concept and calling it science. Doing so is not honest.

The you should be fighting against evolution being taught in the public school system in the guise of science.




unclemonkey -> RE: Earth Basics (3/15/2008 7:21:49 AM)

ORIGINAL:cow451
quote:

(since Scripture does not say that each day of creation was a 24 earth day or a God day which Scripture tells us is a lot longer than an earth day)

A hermeneutic reading of Scripture tells us the days of creation were 24 hours each. Since you don’t agree then please cite the Scripture that tells us how long a “God day” is.

quote:

It's funny how people get so upset over science trying to describe something that Scripture doesn't describe.

Actually what we object to is science trying to describe something using premises that contradict Scripture.




unclemonkey -> RE: Earth Basics (3/15/2008 8:02:55 AM)

ORIGINAL: phosadaud
quote:

Funny... I'm still not reading where it shows us what this looks like. And even funnier, evolution would actually say ultimately we would have begun from the dirt as well...

Of course. Evolution has absolutely no qualms with the claim that we were produced by “mother earth”.
While God did say he formed man from the ground He certainly did NOT say He used death in the process and evolution CANNOT proceed without death. In fact, any theory of how God produced man that involves death clearly contradicts Scripture.

quote:

It doesn't say there was a sunrise and a sunset. It says there was a beginning and an end to that day. Ereb: evening or end of the day. Boqer: morning or beginning of the day.

Have you ever wondered why the Jewish day begins at sunset? It might benifit you to ponder that question.
Your statement begs the question: “How do you have an evening without a sunset or a morning without a sunrise?”

quote:

Our interpretation sometimes leaves something to be desired.

Any interpretation that tries to fit evolution into Scripture certainly does leave something to be desired.




Page: <<   < prev  3 4 [5] 6 7   next >   >>



Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.5 ANSI