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[Poll]
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Earth Basics
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| The Earth is round, and gravitational attraction is in force |
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| The Earth is flat. You can fall off the edge. |
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| The Earth does not rotate on an axis. It stands still |
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| The Earth rotates around the Sun |
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| Science is a tool of Satan, as is education in general |
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| Science is neither moral nor immoral. |
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Total Votes : 81
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(last vote on : 4/4/2008 1:56:12 PM)
(Poll will run till: -- )
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RE: Earth Basics - 3/13/2008 10:38:26 PM
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cow451
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quote:
ORIGINAL: unclemonkey
ORIGINAL:cow451quote:
It's a soapbox, not a pulpit. You'll have to settle for Bible-waving.
So you are on your soapbox, waving the Bible, proclaiming that there is absolutely NO Scriptural support for evolution.
I agree completely. So, please explain why anyone should believe in evolution considering that the “scientific” evidence for it consists of little more than circular reasoning and bait and switch con games.
You were doing fine until your last sentence when you lapsed back into the second-grade sunday school lesson.
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RE: Earth Basics - 3/13/2008 10:40:34 PM
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cow451
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quote:
ORIGINAL: unclemonkey
ORIGINAL: stellaluna quote:
How come everyone's talking about evolution in this earth-revolving thread and everyone's talking about the earth revolving in the evolution thread?
Why should these two threads be the exceptions?
quote:
I just came back from a trip in which I flew halfway across the US.
I will apologize for this up front because I just can't pass it up.
I bet your arms are tired.
Shows what can happen when one interprets a statement too literally.
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Wenn zuerst Sie nicht gelingen, Versuch, versuch wieder. Geben Sie dann auf. Es gibt keinen punkt, in ein zu sein, verdammt Narren darum. -- W. C. Fields
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RE: Earth Basics - 3/13/2008 11:37:01 PM
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EverLearning
Posts: 1662
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quote:
ORIGINAL: stellaluna
How come everyone's talking about evolution in this earth-revolving thread .
Because YECers have to connect anything they can't explain away to that evil evolution so that they don't have to actually make a valid arguement.
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Engineers believe that "if it ain't broke, it doesn't have enough
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RE: Earth Basics - 3/14/2008 1:12:03 AM
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unclemonkey
Posts: 1451
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ORIGINAL:cow451quote:
You were doing fine until your last sentence when you lapsed back into the second-grade sunday school lesson.
Why are you so opposed to Sunday school classes teaching the truth.
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RE: Earth Basics - 3/14/2008 12:34:31 PM
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cow451
Posts: 3683
Joined: 5/6/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: unclemonkey
ORIGINAL:cow451quote:
You were doing fine until your last sentence when you lapsed back into the second-grade sunday school lesson.
Why are you so opposed to Sunday school classes teaching the truth.
That's what they should teach. I object to teaching a religious concept and calling it science. Doing so is not honest.
_____________________________
Wenn zuerst Sie nicht gelingen, Versuch, versuch wieder. Geben Sie dann auf. Es gibt keinen punkt, in ein zu sein, verdammt Narren darum. -- W. C. Fields
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RE: Earth Basics - 3/14/2008 3:20:29 PM
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phosadaud
Posts: 7707
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What I object to is folks making theories and putting them on the same level as Scripture. Scripture only tells us that God created this all and it was good. No more. No less. There is nothing wrong with hypothesizing how He did it, but to make that hypothesis religious doctrine is poor exegesis.
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RE: Earth Basics - 3/14/2008 4:29:53 PM
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drmark
Posts: 3167
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quote:
Scripture only tells us that God created this all and it was good. No more. No less. You may want to consider a more complete version of Scripture, phosadaud. I read that time, space, and energy were created on day 1, followed by a separation of elemental matter on day 2 and the formation of earth on day 3. Then God produced vegetation on the earth that day which was only capable of reproducing according to its various kinds, never evolving into some other kind. Celestial bodies were made on day 4 and all animals on days 5 and 6. The marine and avian creatures were all created to reproduce according to their specific kinds. This biological fact of creation which precludes evolution also holds true for the created terrestrial animals and humans, which were created uniquely in God's Image and not evolved from primates.
So, I see just a little more info than "God created and it was good", doncha think?
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Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
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RE: Earth Basics - 3/14/2008 7:13:52 PM
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DanJames
Posts: 434
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quote:
ORIGINAL: EverLearning
quote:
ORIGINAL: stellaluna
How come everyone's talking about evolution in this earth-revolving thread .
Because YECers have to connect anything they can't explain away to that evil evolution so that they don't have to actually make a valid arguement.
That's a little over-generalized don't you think? Have you really heard no valid arguments?
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RE: Earth Basics - 3/14/2008 7:21:01 PM
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DanJames
Posts: 434
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quote:
ORIGINAL: phosadaud
What I object to is folks making theories and putting them on the same level as Scripture. Scripture only tells us that God created this all and it was good. No more. No less. There is nothing wrong with hypothesizing how He did it, but to make that hypothesis religious doctrine is poor exegesis.
I think we can hypothesize on how God created the universe within the constraints of earnest Biblical exegesis. Meaning we draw truth from scripture, and build on that with science. For instance, we know that God created the heavens and the earth on the first day. How? How can you create matter from a vacuum? If you want to believe that God has always operated within the realm of natural laws, you can hypothesize on how he did it. Does stretching space create matter? Virtual particles?
The problem arises when you hear about someone digging up a bone in the dirt and saying that the thing died millions of years before what careful exegesis of scripture reveals is the first day of creation.
Again, there's nothing wrong with hypothesizing on how God created, but we should probably start with how He told us he did it, and work from there.
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RE: Earth Basics - 3/14/2008 8:11:30 PM
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EverLearning
Posts: 1662
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quote:
ORIGINAL: DanJames
That's a little over-generalized don't you think? Have you really heard no valid arguments?
Very few that have any merit.
_____________________________
Normal people believe that if it ain't broke, don't fix it."
Engineers believe that "if it ain't broke, it doesn't have enough
features yet
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RE: Earth Basics - 3/14/2008 8:16:02 PM
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drmark
Posts: 3167
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quote:
Very few that have any merit. Isn't it amazing, DanJames, how narrow-minded becomes the faith of those who seek to understand our origins?!
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Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
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RE: Earth Basics - 3/14/2008 8:18:09 PM
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drmark
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Five days before God created Adam and Eve. You can do the rest of the math based on the meticulous genealogies of Genesis, 1 Chronicles, and Luke. This isn't rocket science, AFI!
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Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
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RE: Earth Basics - 3/14/2008 8:25:12 PM
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AllForIsrael
Posts: 155
Joined: 3/1/2008
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Whatever.
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RE: Earth Basics - 3/14/2008 8:28:48 PM
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drmark
Posts: 3167
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quote:
Whatever. Uh, no. This is directly from the historical narrative account of the origin of the universe by the only Eyewitness. "Whatever" is whatever you and I want to make-believe happened!
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Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
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RE: Earth Basics - 3/14/2008 8:31:41 PM
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drmark
Posts: 3167
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quote:
It boggles the mind. Not really, cow. It's all clearly prophesied in 2 Peter 3:3-7.
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RE: Earth Basics - 3/14/2008 8:47:05 PM
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phosadaud
Posts: 7707
Joined: 9/19/2005
From: Washington State
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: drmark
quote:
Scripture only tells us that God created this all and it was good. No more. No less. You may want to consider a more complete version of Scripture, phosadaud. I read that time, space, and energy were created on day 1, followed by a separation of elemental matter on day 2 and the formation of earth on day 3. Then God produced vegetation on the earth that day which was only capable of reproducing according to its various kinds, never evolving into some other kind. Celestial bodies were made on day 4 and all animals on days 5 and 6. The marine and avian creatures were all created to reproduce according to their specific kinds. This biological fact of creation which precludes evolution also holds true for the created terrestrial animals and humans, which were created uniquely in God's Image and not evolved from primates.
So, I see just a little more info than "God created and it was good", doncha think?
It tells us that He did but again, it doesn't tell us how. Did He snap his fingers and "poof" everything appeared? Did He build us up like a clay model? Sculpt us like a sculpture? Slowly over time (since Scripture does not say that each day of creation was a 24 earth day or a God day which Scripture tells us is a lot longer than an earth day) change and tranform until He reached the finished product? We don't know. Apparently, God didn't find the "how" to be central to our faith. He finds the fact He did to be central. Science doesn't tell us the who, it can only theorizes as to what it looked like. There is no conflict unless religion puts things into Scripture that are not there or unless science tries to go beyond it's capabilities and tell us the Who.
It's funny how people get so upset over science trying to describe something that Scripture doesn't describe. And have little kindergarten fits over someone not following their personal pet theory that is NOT written in the Word of God but rather by someone who calls themselves a "Creationist" which apparently means they must have the authority of Scripture the way folks bow down to their theories...
But, I'm the narrowminded one because I believe in Scripture's authority over Dr. Special Creationism 101's authority.... 
_____________________________
~Kristin~
The easily offended...
Thousands of years ago, cats were worshipped as Gods. Cats have never forgotten this.
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RE: Earth Basics - 3/14/2008 8:50:24 PM
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phosadaud
Posts: 7707
Joined: 9/19/2005
From: Washington State
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quote:
ORIGINAL: drmark
Five days before God created Adam and Eve. You can do the rest of the math based on the meticulous genealogies of Genesis, 1 Chronicles, and Luke. This isn't rocket science, AFI!
It wasn't until Day 4 that the conditions for an earth day were even created so either God was going by His own creation's time before it was even set up to do so, or He was creating on His time and we know from Scripture that His days are not our days.
And if you read the "meticiulous genealogies" in Scripture, you will find many apparent contradictions. Why? Because unlike how we do genealogies today, back then, geneaologies were usually "telescoping". I'll let you look that up if you aren't familiar with this.
_____________________________
~Kristin~
The easily offended...
Thousands of years ago, cats were worshipped as Gods. Cats have never forgotten this.
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RE: Earth Basics - 3/14/2008 9:19:36 PM
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drmark
Posts: 3167
Joined: 7/10/2006
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quote:
It tells us that He did but again, it doesn't tell us how. Did He snap his fingers and "poof" everything appeared? Sorry that you're still using that abridged version, phosadaud. Let's see if I can help you out. In Genesis 1 we read that God amar eight times during six days. The original Hebrew word means "say, speak, or command". Coupled with Colossians 1:16, it seems quite evident that Jesus Christ, the Word (John 1:1-3) was the Agent by Which Creator God spoke the universe into existence.
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Did He build us up like a clay model? Sculpt us like a sculpture? Well again, it's pretty straightforward in Genesis 2:7 that God formed, fashioned, framed (Hebrew yatsar) Adam from dirt and breathed life into him. No evolution involved!
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Slowly over time (since Scripture does not say that each day of creation was a 24 earth day or a God day which Scripture tells us is a lot longer than an earth day) change and tranform until He reached the finished product? No, phosadaud, Moses clearly writes six times "evening and morning, the first through sixth day" so that we can know with certainty the length of creation days. And please don't bother bringing up 2 Peter 3:8 - that is an unmistakeable word simile used to express God's patience in wanting all to be saved.
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We don't know. Sorry, I know what text God inspired Moses to write in His authoritative and inerrant Word. I accept Him at His Word.
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Apparently, God didn't find the "how" to be central to our faith. He finds the fact He did to be central. Then why did He spend so much effort on explaining all these details in a way even 19th century BC ex-slaves could understand? How do you pick and choose which passages are "central" and which are fairy tale fiction?
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It's funny how people get so upset over science trying to describe something that Scripture doesn't describe. It's more sad than funny that people get so upset over trying to make man's science fit something that Scripture doesn't describe.
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but rather by someone who calls themselves a "Creationist" which apparently means they must have the authority of Scripture the way folks bow down to their theories... And would you agree Jesus called Himself a "creationist" in Mark 10:6. Or would that be bowing down to "His theory"?
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But, I'm the narrowminded one because I believe in Scripture's authority As long as Scripture doesn't contradict neo-Darwinism?
_____________________________
Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
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RE: Earth Basics - 3/14/2008 9:25:04 PM
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drmark
Posts: 3167
Joined: 7/10/2006
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It wasn't until Day 4 that the conditions for an earth day were even created Nonsense! The existence of the sun is irrelevant to the duration of earth's rotation on its axis.
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we know from Scripture that His days are not our days. Chapter and verse, please.
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I'll let you look that up if you aren't familiar with this. Oh no, please explain it to me. I'm most interested in how 4000 years of genealogies can be "telescoping" into 100,000+ alleged years of H sapiens existence!
_____________________________
Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
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RE: Earth Basics - 3/14/2008 9:46:23 PM
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phosadaud
Posts: 7707
Joined: 9/19/2005
From: Washington State
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quote:
ORIGINAL: drmark
quote:
It tells us that He did but again, it doesn't tell us how. Did He snap his fingers and "poof" everything appeared? Sorry that you're still using that abridged version, phosadaud. Let's see if I can help you out. In Genesis 1 we read that God amar eight times during six days. The original Hebrew word means "say, speak, or command". Coupled with Colossians 1:16, it seems quite evident that Jesus Christ, the Word (John 1:1-3) was the Agent by Which Creator God spoke the universe into existence.
And what does that look like?
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Did He build us up like a clay model? Sculpt us like a sculpture? Well again, it's pretty straightforward in Genesis 2:7 that God formed, fashioned, framed (Hebrew yatsar) Adam from dirt and breathed life into him. No evolution involved!
Funny... I'm still not reading where it shows us what this looks like. And even funnier, evolution would actually say ultimately we would have begun from the dirt as well...
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Slowly over time (since Scripture does not say that each day of creation was a 24 earth day or a God day which Scripture tells us is a lot longer than an earth day) change and tranform until He reached the finished product? No, phosadaud, Moses clearly writes six times "evening and morning, the first through sixth day" so that we can know with certainty the length of creation days. And please don't bother bringing up 2 Peter 3:8 - that is an unmistakeable word simile used to express God's patience in wanting all to be saved.
It doesn't say there was a sunrise and a sunset. It says there was a beginning and an end to that day. Ereb: evening or end of the day. Boqer: morning or beginning of the day. No contradiction.
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We don't know. Sorry, I know what text God inspired Moses to write in His authoritative and inerrant Word. I accept Him at His Word.
It is His authoritative and inerrant Word. Our interpretation sometimes leaves something to be desired.
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Apparently, God didn't find the "how" to be central to our faith. He finds the fact He did to be central. Then why did He spend so much effort on explaining all these details in a way even 19th century BC ex-slaves could understand? How do you pick and choose which passages are "central" and which are fairy tale fiction?
He doesn't explain in detail what His creation of all this looked like as I have shown before. It's a grand total of 1 chapter in Scripture that tells us that God created all of this: He created this, He created that, it was good.
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It's funny how people get so upset over science trying to describe something that Scripture doesn't describe. It's more sad than funny that people get so upset over trying to make man's science fit something that Scripture doesn't describe.
You're correct. Scripture doesn't describe it, so science cannot be trying to "fit" into Scripture. Science is rather looking at something Scripture doesn't describe. It doesn't need to "fit" because it doesn't conflict.
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but rather by someone who calls themselves a "Creationist" which apparently means they must have the authority of Scripture the way folks bow down to their theories... And would you agree Jesus called Himself a "creationist" in Mark 10:6. Or would that be bowing down to "His theory"?
I am a creationist. I am just not a "special" creationist that follows sites like AIG. I believe 100% what Jesus says in Mark 10:6.
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But, I'm the narrowminded one because I believe in Scripture's authority As long as Scripture doesn't contradict neo-Darwinism?
I am actually open to whatever God's creations shows us. Science doesn't have all the answers. It only tries to look at what we know and tries to look at what that tells us about history. Scripture is all Truth but it doesn't tell me how to reboot my computer when it crashes.
_____________________________
~Kristin~
The easily offended...
Thousands of years ago, cats were worshipped as Gods. Cats have never forgotten this.
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RE: Earth Basics - 3/14/2008 9:54:06 PM
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phosadaud
Posts: 7707
Joined: 9/19/2005
From: Washington State
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quote:
ORIGINAL: drmark
quote:
It wasn't until Day 4 that the conditions for an earth day were even created Nonsense! The existence of the sun is irrelevant to the duration of earth's rotation on its axis.
True. But earth wasn't created on Day 1 either.
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