What is the sin that leads to death??? (Full Version)

All Forums >> [Theology] >> Salvation Issues



Message

acontriteheart -> What is the sin that leads to death??? (3/10/2008 11:20:24 AM)

After my last post I now find another scripture that has me questioning that I have once again something to be very concerned about....

1 John 5:16-17... "If anyone sees his brother commit a sin that does NOT lead to death, he should pray and God will forgive him. I refer to those whose sin does not lead to death. There is sin that leads to death. I am not saying that he should pray about that. 17 All wrongdoing is sin, and there is sin that does not lead to death."

Is this spritual death? I see it that way. As a christian, I willfully said to God, I just had to go back to living my old lifestyle but,I would come back to him one day...this is so horrible. [:(] Immediately after that I felt the Holy Spirit literally leave me...[:(] At least it really felt that way. I immediately asked God to forgive me, that I really did not mean it, I was fighting so much temptation and it really felt unbearable at the time. Ever since then I have had no peace, and have always been back and forth questioning my salvation, if I could ever be forgiven, thinking I've committed the unpardonable sin and now the sin that leads to death. I have a repentant heart and am so overwhelmed by guilt and remorse for the way I have lived my life since. I am just really scared I have gone way to far and now I have been forever cut off of the vine as scriptures says.

This is a HUGE setback as to the joy and forgiveness I was experiencing from scripture, now I feel as if I am damned to Hell with no hope of getting right with God. I know I need prayer...my sins have taken such deep root in my life that it almost feels as if I will never get out of this pit. [:(]



jfaye -> RE: What is the sin that leads to death??? (3/10/2008 12:41:29 PM)

John 6:7"All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me
I will certainly not cast out.

38"For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me.

39 "This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing,
but raise it up on the last day.

40 "For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him
will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day."

John 10:27"My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me;

28 and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out
of My hand.

29"My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out
of the Father's hand

30"I and the Father are one."

Contrite--you would not be 'contrite' if it weren't for the work of the Holy Spirit within you. You would
not be able to 'grieve' over your sin as you are.

You are in the safest place in the world ,as per John 10 above. Picture it like this, you are in the hands
of Jesus with the Father's hand wrapped around His, with you safely tucked in Jesus' palm, under both
their sets of fingers and thumbs, and I imagine it is the Father's right hand of power that we are
kept!

Does that mean you won't try to wriggle out, by not being obedient and failing in sinning--of course,
but will you be able to and if you were, do you think the Lord would have 'gathered you up' in the first place,
knowing you will try and crawl out and be ABLE to escape His ultimate grace?

Stay as you are indicating you are, deeply entrenched in His word. Let it become your obsession. Turn off
the TV, the radio and find the quiet place to hide with His word. Call out to Him to speak to you,
through His words in and then rest in those words He will provide.

Sometimes it feels like the road back in so long and full of so many ankle-twisting pot holes--and it can be.
But, just as 'the father' of the 'prodigal son' was waiting, expectantly, to see his son return to Him, Our Father
waits, and knows you are headed back! He's not gone--you've been like the one sheep of the one hundred,
who had to find out if he could find some greener pastures away from the fold and the Shepherd and you
did find out what in reality, is out there, waiting for us,'the Lion' waiting to devour all who
make themselves so vulnerable having strayed from the Shepherd's side of protection.

But---'the Shepherd' goes out to rescue the wayward lamb, and all of heaven rejoices when it is found.

You have been found, 'Contrite'--you are on the path back to the Father's side and 'the Shepherd' has
gone out to find you. Angels in Heaven and all of us are rejoicing over you! Think about that for a moment!

Now--pray the Shepherd never allows you to take this aside again, even if He has to break a leg, to prevent it,
having to bind it and then carry you around His neck until it heals and after that, guaranteeing that you will joyfully
and willingly trot close at His heels, having been so close to Him for such a time, and come to rely on Him,
and hear Him whisper, "you are Mine--follow Me--I love you, and I want to protect you--don't do this again,
because I want you to remain 'safe' in My hands--I died for you so you won't have to!".

That is what a real-life shepherd would often have to do with a sheep that would not stay with the fold,
and would wander into dangerous territory away from the fold and the shepherd's provision and protection!
He would break the lamb's leg! Many of us, can attest to that experience being in the hands of 'the
Shepherd of our souls'!

The enemy (that same Lion) will try and convince you, that you are not worth rescuing, but, the Shepherd
GAVE HIS LIFE FOR YOU! Your worth is in that act of love, He purposed for us all and you ARE of great value to Him!!

You just have to count the cost, of His life for yours, and deem it enough to stay by His side, and to seek
that security for how ever long it takes, to be able to trot behind Him joyfully, again!![sm=funny.gif]
My heart and prayers are with you, 'Contrite'! Please keep us informed as to your day to day progress!
It will help you (AND OTHERS) to journal it and keep it to go back over as you realize the steps
He is taking you through and perhaps it will be used for another 'straying sheep' one day-NO DOUBT!
God can and will use all for His glory!!



frankman -> RE: What is the sin that leads to death??? (3/10/2008 4:22:59 PM)

If we believers fail to confess and forsake our sins God will chasten us. This may lead to both spiritual and physical death. In the case of Ananias and Sapphira (Acts 5) it was their deliberate sin of lieing to the Holy Spirit and to God about the money they received for their land that lead to their death. A modern day example may be a believer who refuses to repent of the sin of immorality or drugs may as a result in time receive no more convictions from the Spirit to repent, thus end up loosing their bodies to the sin they love so much by dieing of a drug overdose or sexual sin.

In your case you have confessed your sin and are seeking to live a repentant lifestyle. What you now need in order to regain your peace with God is faith. Faith in the promises of Scripture. "Jfaye" shared with you promises from Scripture that you are still His. Read, trust and believe these verses. I`ll add one more verse to the list. 1 John 1:9 says "If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness." Please believe God`s Word that because you have confessed your sins He has forgiven you and made you as righteous.



cognitivemagic -> RE: What is the sin that leads to death??? (3/10/2008 8:26:07 PM)

All sin leads to death.

"For the wages of sin is death" (Romans 6:23)

I read your other post and I'm hoping you aren't letting yourself get "beat up" by the bible.

Read this article here:

http://www.answers.org/bible/sininout.html

Hopefully, it will help give some explanation in answer to your question. I knew the person who wrote it, before he died in 2003, and he had gone through the same kind of doubts about his salvation when he was a young Christian. I think this paper came as a response to some of the "troubling" passages he was confronted with at that time, although he wrote it much later in life. It's a really good and plausible explanation of "sin unto death". If you have more questions about this, by all means post them. It's better to get it off your chest and process this stuff rather than live in fear and isolation about it.

Blessings.



acontriteheart -> RE: What is the sin that leads to death??? (3/11/2008 9:47:07 AM)

Cognitivemagic----

Thanks for the link, however the server is down at the momment for that site. I'm going to read it as soon as they fix the problem!!



Okami -> RE: What is the sin that leads to death??? (3/11/2008 11:40:15 AM)

Most reputable scholars believe that the "sin unto death" refers to "blasphemy of the Holy Spirit", which they believe to be a constant steadfast denial of Christ.
There are sins, and there is the unforgiveable sin.

quote:

ORIGINAL: cognitivemagic

All sin leads to death.

"For the wages of sin is death" (Romans 6:23)

I read your other post and I'm hoping you aren't letting yourself get "beat up" by the bible.

Read this article here:

http://www.answers.org/bible/sininout.html

Hopefully, it will help give some explanation in answer to your question. I knew the person who wrote it, before he died in 2003, and he had gone through the same kind of doubts about his salvation when he was a young Christian. I think this paper came as a response to some of the "troubling" passages he was confronted with at that time, although he wrote it much later in life. It's a really good and plausible explanation of "sin unto death". If you have more questions about this, by all means post them. It's better to get it off your chest and process this stuff rather than live in fear and isolation about it.

Blessings.


BUt therer is still a specific "sin unto death" that the John verse speaks about.
There is a thread on it.
Blanketting that verse under "all sin" would totally destroy the meaning behind it.



cognitivemagic -> RE: What is the sin that leads to death??? (3/19/2008 3:28:08 PM)

The site is back up now:

http://www.answer.org/bible/sininout.html

Note the bibliographic reference at the bottom of the article. That book has the argument in the more fully developed form. But the article does a great summarizing of it.

However, both Scholer and Passantino reject the idea that the "sin unto death" is "blasphemy of the Holy Spirit".

quote:

Blanketting that verse under "all sin" would totally destroy the meaning behind it.


Of course, the article notes all this.



jfaye -> RE: What is the sin that leads to death??? (3/19/2008 4:10:09 PM)

quote:

http://www.answer.org/bible/sininout.html

I printed out and read the article when it was first posted and I have to say, while it
is a little difficult to get through, with having to go and look up the Scripture references
between the flowing thoughts it turns out to be quite believable!

I would suggest, using BibleGateway.com to look up the references beforehand. This will
be arduous but if you print them out, before reading the whole of the outline, it will be
beneficial and more easily understood, IMHO!

I think his conclusions better satisfy what I think is the whole of the issue what we
can pray for those who believe and can't for those who will not believe!

Thank you for the link, 'cognitivemagic'![:)]



URForgiven -> RE: What is the sin that leads to death??? (3/22/2008 11:42:00 AM)

The sin that leads to death is the sin of unbelief. The sin of the world is unbelief. Unbelief does not need to be forgiven...it needs to be corrected.



kountrykia45 -> RE: What is the sin that leads to death??? (3/25/2008 6:43:08 PM)

acontriteheart, When we become saved, we are still sinners, saved thru Grace by faith. Because we are sinners, we are going to sin, thats our human nature We sin everyday,knowingly, and unknowingly, thats why Jesus wants us to confess our sins, and repent, and He forgives, seventy times seven. He wipes the slate clean, those sins are no longer remembered by Jesus. Our sin He hates, but He will never stop loving us. If we continue in that same sin again, and again, and never confess it, if we are a child of God, He will deal with it, as in a good spanking. We can't help sinning, Jesus knows that, but He wants us to say, I'a sorry, and He forgives. If you are truly, and geniunely sorry, you won't continue in that same sin, but if you do , it depends ,He will chastise you, because, He cares, and wants you to grow more like Him. The worst sin, that is the unpardonable sin is rejecting our Saviour, and thats a sin unto death. Some so-called Christian may think, he,or she is saved. It may be a head knowledge, and not a heart profession. They need to examine their life. Some people think, just because the read the word, and go to church, they are saved. They need to come to Jesus personally, and confess their sins, and ask Jesus to save them, and believe by faith, salvation is so simple, receive it by faith. You can sometimes tell by their walk,who they are serving. Only Jesus sees our hearts. John 3: 16. Love you in Christ.



lightshineon -> RE: What is the sin that leads to death??? (3/25/2008 6:50:23 PM)

It is taking the Lords supper in an unworthy manner. Or the the death penalty. It means physical death. One reason they stopped having the full Agape feast. I could go into more evidence of this later, in a time cruch. Blessings.



A_crucified_man -> RE: What is the sin that leads to death??? (3/26/2008 2:20:48 PM)

The wages sin are death - so all sin leads to spiritual death.



Biblefreak -> RE: What is the sin that leads to death??? (3/27/2008 11:14:26 AM)

All, I know is it's good to have a Blessed Assurance.



cognitivemagic -> RE: What is the sin that leads to death??? (3/27/2008 6:35:51 PM)

quote:

Thank you for the link, 'cognitivemagic'!


You're very welcome and I'm glad you found it helpful.

God bless [:)]



lightshineon -> RE: What is the sin that leads to death??? (3/27/2008 6:42:52 PM)

There are different words for physical and Spiritual death in the greek. Si ca be forgiven, but ot the consequences.
quote:

ORIGINAL: A_crucified_man

The wages sin are death - so all sin leads to spiritual death.



cognitivemagic -> RE: What is the sin that leads to death??? (3/31/2008 4:15:31 PM)

Here's a quote from H.D Lewis' "Our Experience of God" that I think you might like:

"And just as we may find in the livelier moments of religious experience a terrible accuser deepening the accents of our own conscience and making us sensitive to moral distinctions we might have overlooked or considered trivial, so we may also find an eventual healer, a healer whose ministrations may be costing and humbling and whose cures many not always be immediate, but who provides in the last resort the only balm that will work by presenting in the world at large a sustaining of moral and kindred values which gives us confidence in taking them into our hearts again and renewing their hold by identifying them more closely with religious interventions by which they are extended and deepened. In the same context we may find also that the blunting of our religious awareness, and the relapse into less elevated attitudes towards the world, is countered by unexpected renewal of moods of religious sensitivity, that God, in the simpler language of live religion, does not "abandon us wholly" or "leave himself without witness," and we may come to know of ways in which we may facilitate this process and make ourselves more open to its influence. And here we may see the germ of our thought of God as the restorer of right relations with himself, as renewer of life and healer, as redeemer and God of grace."



restored08 -> RE: What is the sin that leads to death??? (4/8/2008 6:16:31 PM)

The only sin that's unforgivable is blasphemy against the Holy Ghost.
No sin is greater than the other. But blasphemy is the unforgiveable sin.
quote:

Immediately after, I felt the Holy Spirit literally leave me.

God said in his word that He will never leave nor forsake you. You left him He didn't leave you.



stampinlady -> RE: What is the sin that leads to death??? (4/9/2008 10:47:07 PM)

quote:

It is taking the Lords supper in an unworthy manner.

And I was just reminded of Ananias and Saffira(sp?) God struck them down. Actually, many sins could lead to death. Drunk driving, drugs, casual sex, abuse.[&:]



URForgiven -> RE: What is the sin that leads to death??? (4/10/2008 9:34:39 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: stampinlady

quote:

It is taking the Lords supper in an unworthy manner.

And I was just reminded of Ananias and Saffira(sp?) God struck them down. Actually, many sins could lead to death. Drunk driving, drugs, casual sex, abuse.[&:]


I believe the death spoken of here is the eternal death...spiritual death...the death that is the penalty for our sin.



stampinlady -> RE: What is the sin that leads to death??? (4/10/2008 9:40:26 AM)

Will you share why you believe it's spiritual? I did a Precept study in 1John and I don't think it was ever made clear that it was spiritual.



URForgiven -> RE: What is the sin that leads to death??? (4/10/2008 10:11:53 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: stampinlady

Will you share why you believe it's spiritual? I did a Precept study in 1John and I don't think it was ever made clear that it was spiritual.


I was not speaking solely of 1 John. But, I believe verse 18, explains verses 16 & 17.

"We know that anyone born of God does not continue to sin; the one who was born of God keeps him safe, and the evil one cannot harm him."

The sin spoken of here is the sin of unbelief. Those who are born of the Spirit are Believers. We believe, we cannot continue to sin [live in unbelief], because that is contrary to who we now are.

Unbelief is the only sin not made right by forgiveness. The only solution to unbelief...is belief. It needs to be corrected, not forgiven.

The sin of the world is unbelief. The wages of sin [unbelief] is death, physical death yes, but ultimately and tragically...spritual death.



restored08 -> RE: What is the sin that leads to death??? (4/10/2008 10:15:48 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: stampinlady

quote:

It is taking the Lords supper in an unworthy manner.

And I was just reminded of Ananias and Saffira(sp?) God struck them down. Actually, many sins could lead to death. Drunk driving, drugs, casual sex, abuse.[&:]



Is defiling the temple a sin?



stampinlady -> RE: What is the sin that leads to death??? (4/10/2008 10:44:00 AM)

Thanks UR.

Restore, I don't understand your post. PLease explain.

I just went and pulled out my Precept study on 1 John and here's some scriptures they used to in the chapter study:

Jer. 7:16, 14.11; Ecl. 7:17; Acts 5:1-11; 1 Cor. 5:1-13 carefuly verse 5. Compare with 1 Timothy 1:19-20; 1 Cor. 11:20-34( cross ref. 1 Thes. 4:14 sleep) Hope that helps.



Page: [1]



Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.5 ANSI