The dead shall rise (Full Version)

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dantheman688 -> The dead shall rise (3/13/2008 12:38:14 AM)

In the bible what does it actually mean when it talks about the dead shall rise first from their graves? Isn't everyone who died already either in heaven or hell, not in their graves?



DaveW -> RE: The dead shall rise (3/13/2008 7:16:18 AM)

It is a physical resurection of the body. Final judgement involves the whole man, spirit soul and body.

And the final assignment of heaven or hell comes at that judgement; the Judgement seat of Christ for believers and the Great White Throne judgement for unbelievers.



dantheman688 -> RE: The dead shall rise (3/13/2008 8:12:30 AM)

so what if were in heaven already? Does it mean the dead on earth refering to all the living people? I'm still alittle unsure. It makes it seem as were waiting in the ground for Christ.



DaveW -> RE: The dead shall rise (3/13/2008 8:25:10 AM)

While there is no absolute clear explaination in scripture, it seems that soul/spirit goes to God (in paradise?) while the body waits in the ground. The final disposition comes after they are rejoined. Some have theorized a "soul sleep" until resurrection but I find no biblical support for that idea.



timf -> RE: The dead shall rise (3/13/2008 8:29:46 AM)

Isn't everyone who died already either in heaven or hell,

The Bible describes paradise and hades. These places are described a little in the parable of the rich man and Lazarus. One might say that actual heaven and hell are destinations that occur after judgment. Hell will be the lake of fire and heaven will be on a transformed earth in the continual presence of God.

There has to be a "rasing from the dead" for Christians to be with Jesus in their bodies to receive rewards for their good works and for the unsaved to receive punishment for their works.

For the unsaved there is a punishment called the "second death".

When a Christian dies, his spirit goes to be with the Lord. When Christ returns, there will be a bodily resurrection.

1 Thessalonians 4:14-17
For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Christians are not judged for sins but for rewards.

1 Corinthians 3:11-15
For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

All who have rejected Christ are judged on the merit of their own works.

Romans 3:23
For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

Revelation 20:12
And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

Revelation 21:8
But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Revelation 20:6
Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.



Bluethread -> RE: The dead shall rise (3/13/2008 1:57:35 PM)

The details regarding Paradise and Gehenim are scetchy and maybe that's a good thing since it is important we focus on his will being done on earth. As timf points out, we get a glimpse in tha parable of Lazarus. Then again, it is a parable. It is a little dangerous to be dogmatic about the details in a parable. Parables are of most value regarding the point being made at the time.

It might be interesting to note that Paradise and Gehenim are real places next to the Temple mount. Paradise is on the city side and Gehenim is a dump on the cliff side where the refuse from the temple was dumped and as long as the sacrifices continued the fire never went out. This is also the place where criminals were buried.



LCannon -> RE: The dead shall rise (3/13/2008 2:24:08 PM)

Some feel the 'dead in Christ'(NT saints)will rise first to participate in the marriage Supper of the Lamb while the seven year Tribulation is occurring since the nation Israel rejected their 'sacrifice' in disobedience. The OT saints will be finally 'saved' in fact after Christ has conquered Satan at Armageddon.

Admit-“[Jesus] proved He had a valid claim [to His Deity] but His own rejected His claim yet as many as receives His message; to them he claimed the right to become redeemed of God and appropriate His Name.“ John 1:11,12



dantheman688 -> RE: The dead shall rise (3/13/2008 10:34:23 PM)

So the christians who already died are spirits in heaven right now, but when the Lord comes back they will reenter their bodies and will rise in a resurected body?



timf -> RE: The dead shall rise (3/14/2008 8:08:24 AM)

but when the Lord comes back they will reenter their bodies and will rise in a resurected body?

1 Corinthians 15:21-23
For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

1 Corinthians 15:50-54
Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.



Bluethread -> RE: The dead shall rise (3/14/2008 12:53:29 PM)

Interesting! But in light of Yeshua showing himself in bodily form after the resurrection might lead us to understand those texts to mean; that which is only flesh and blood can not inherit the Kingdom of Heaven. What do you think?



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