Black liberation theology (Full Version)

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P31W -> Black liberation theology (3/17/2008 8:16:44 AM)

Tell me if I am right or wrong. It took me all of one minute of looking at Obama's church site to know it was about black liberation theology. This is NOT a thread about Obama or what "he" may choose to believe, expose himself to for 20 years and bring up his children in.

Rather it's about the doctrine of black liberation theology and whether or not it's Christian Theology.

From what I understand:

Salvation is about overcoming oppression and injustice

Sin is about "man's inhumanity to man" because God lives in all men. Therefore whites more than blacks need to come to repentance and whites are told they are to embrace "blackness".

Jesus is not so much the Son of God who made the way for us to be made right with God by faith in him rather Jesus is the one who "shows us the way" to God.

_______

I do know that the man James Cone whom Obama's pastor Rev. Wright? said for us to study on the TV has been condemned because according to some critics he is not about reconciliation rather just black power and they call him a black racist. From what I have read of Comes and from Wright I have to agree.

"To put it simply, Black Theology knows no authority more binding than the experience of oppression itself. This alone must be the ultimate authority in religious matters" James Cone from Black Theology and Black Power pg 120



earthless -> RE: Black liberation theology (3/17/2008 8:21:52 AM)

The core of their error stems from ignoring Scripture's decree that all of mankind is the same at the foot of the cross.

Their distinctions and message is racism true and through.



P31W -> RE: Black liberation theology (3/17/2008 8:28:14 AM)

I don't understand how it can be called "theology" at all with it's message of "man" in it's center.



timf -> RE: Black liberation theology (3/17/2008 9:52:33 AM)

Black liberation theology

Previous "liberation theology" was used to justify the communist insurgency in Central and South America.

The Bible equates rebellion with the sin of witchcraft. At first this seems an odd coupling. However, upon closer examination what one finds at the core of both is the desire to "get what you want".

The elevation of self is a central tenant of the religion of secularism (the worship of man in general and self in particular). Since, through the school systems, we have adopted secularism as our national religion, it should not be surprising that socialism, communism, and other "secular" political philosophies are all advanced to achieve the end of this religion.

It is sad so many churches have wholeheartedly embraced this religion under the guise of "Christianity". However, we were told that this would happen.

Acts 20:29
For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.

2 Thessalonians 2:3
Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;



bob97 -> RE: Black liberation theology (3/17/2008 10:55:40 AM)

quote:

Salvation is about overcoming oppression and injustice




Salvation is about totally submitting ourselves to God and developing the heart of Christ. We are then called on to spread the gosple and love.

Overcoming oppression and injustice is a part of the fruit of our spiritual growth.

Any church that preaches hate and division is certainly on the wrong foot and that is what I hear from Wright

Bob



rcjames -> RE: Black liberation theology (3/17/2008 11:49:48 AM)

Black liberation theology is just a more narrow view (concerned only with one race)of the corruption of the Gospel of Christ than its wider view (but still corrupted) cousins; Social theology, and revolution theology.

Thanks
RC



bob97 -> RE: Black liberation theology (3/17/2008 1:04:25 PM)

People go to church to be inspired and for spiritual guidance. Most people who attend church believe the words of the pastor, otherwise they would search for another church. Those who continue to attend of course ascribe to the message being given.

Can you imagine the effects on the social viewpoint of those attending when the pastor tells how evil and suppressing white America is? Those same people then in turn teach their children the same hate filled message, the same as other people teach their children the message of the gospel.

If this in fact goes on in all liberal black churches is there any wonder that there is mistrust and division between races?

I have never attended a Church where any kind of a message of hate was preached.

Bob



rcjames -> RE: Black liberation theology (3/17/2008 4:06:18 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: bob97
I have never attended a Church where any kind of a message of hate was preached.


Neither have I Bob, nor would I; for I would leave before the message was completed.

Thsnks
RC



FurGodWurLivin -> RE: Black liberation theology (3/17/2008 4:49:14 PM)

Black liberation is not a Christian doctrine. Rather, it is one of the core values of the Nation of Islam. The NOI is not in fact a recognized muslim denomination, but is viewed by all three mainline Muslim denominations as a cult. I find that very telling, personally. Black liberation is basically the product of a grudge held too long. The bottom line? Forgive those who persecute you before it becomes something as goofy as "Black Liberation Doctrine".

Adam



bob97 -> RE: Black liberation theology (3/17/2008 4:56:49 PM)

The fact is that most people who attend these kinds of churches are in fact looking for a religious view that fits a doctrine that they already process. If one possesses a certain theology they look for others that support their viewpoint.

Bob



GrahamCracker -> RE: Black liberation theology (3/17/2008 5:40:50 PM)

There are aspects to OT history where God told those in power not to oppress the poor and weak. It had to do with social order and government (theocracy), not as a central tenet of Christianity.

The instruction is to those in power, not to the oppressed--that is to say, it is not instructing people who feel themselves oppressed to rebel against their oppressors. To do that would be completely distorting the context of the biblical commands.

It seems to me that these people are manipulating poor people in order to make them believe the cause of their problems is "the oppressors," instead of their own sinful rebellious attitude against God.



facedown -> RE: Black liberation theology (3/17/2008 9:15:38 PM)

p31w
to be honest, i don't know one thing about "black liberation theology", though i have been on the site in question. and when i read it without over interpretation - i really had no issue.

while i'm still speaking in somewhat of a blind spot - is "man" really the center? or is there something else afoot?

earthless
i'd love to argue with you over post 2, however, i as i said, i have no knowledge to make such a statement - maybe when i'm done, i'll look into this....

bob97
i must say, that i don't think there is a seperatation between our union with god, and god's union with us...
regarding post 7 - are you aware that the website mentioned in the op is primarly a "white" demonination? how does that affect your statements?
(doing a little reading up even as i write) i also understand that methodist james cone is considered a leading theologin, and that the main message is one of freedom for all people - even though this particular movement speaks primarily concerning the freedom of blacks.

but again, to say that to speak for the liberation of "blacks" is in essence racist and demeaning towards "whites" is far beyond a reductionist vantage point

rcjames
in regards to post 6, does that then mean, that because one is born on block a, lives in block a, and knows nothing but block a, and speaks about block a, that then means that they are only concerend with bock a?

graham
i disagree if you are suggesting that liberation of the poor and helping the weak is not a "central tenent of christianity".



bob97 -> RE: Black liberation theology (3/17/2008 11:33:22 PM)

Facedown, none of my statements have to do with either the website mentioned in the op or James Cone. What I have to say is based on my awareness of the facts that I have been following for the past 6 weeks and any statement of hate or intolerance coming from the pulpit of Rev. Jeremiah Wright. When a race is lead from the pulpit to hate another race something is very wrong…would not you agree?

Bob



lightshineon -> RE: Black liberation theology (3/18/2008 12:57:59 AM)

it is no different than a kkk meeting.



P31W -> RE: Black liberation theology (3/18/2008 8:51:40 AM)

quote:

it is no different than a kkk meeting.


EXACTLY!!!!!!!

I think many people don't realize that. Critics of Cones say that he makes not effort at restitution therefore his theology is nothing more than "black power" movement. I will say however that Cones does not support violence.


quote:

Black liberation is not a Christian doctrine. Rather, it is one of the core values of the Nation of Islam.


Yes Cones himself admits that his theology has been influenced by muslim beliefs. I like you believe it would be more accurate for him to admit it was the teachings of the NOI that influenced his beliefs. I also believe that is why Rev. Wright gave the lifetime achievement award to "Lewis F(can't spell his name)[:D]



earthless -> RE: Black liberation theology (3/18/2008 8:58:28 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: facedown

earthless
i'd love to argue with you over post 2, however, i as i said, i have no knowledge to make such a statement - maybe when i'm done, i'll look into this....



Please feel free to do so, but I will go ahead and add some meat (the Word) to my original comment.

All human beings are created in the image and likeness of God (Genesis 1:26-27).

God does not show partiality or favoritism (Deuteronomy 10:17; Acts 10:34; Romans 2:11; Ephesians 6:9).

James 2:4 describes anyone who shows discrimination as “judges with evil thoughts.” Instead, we are to “love our neighbors as ourselves” (James 2:8).

We used to have a God made separation between Jews and Gentiles, Jesus Christ put an end to this, destroying the dividing wall of hostility (Ephesians 2:14). All forms of racism, prejudice, and discrimination are affronts to the work of Christ on the cross.

“There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.” Galatians 3:28

What Jeremiah Wright has been preaching from his pulpit is pure racism and division on an issue that is not to be one. Someone claiming they were not aware of any of that when said individual is a member of said church for over 20 years and is so closely tied to the pastor.. is quite frankly an outright lie.



rcjames -> RE: Black liberation theology (3/18/2008 12:17:35 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: facedown
rcjames
in regards to post 6, does that then mean, that because one is born on block a, lives in block a, and knows nothing but block a, and speaks about block a, that then means that they are only concerend with bock a?


Contentment should come with Christ;

(Heb 13:5) Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.

Please give us some Scripture where we as Christians are called to rebel, be disatisfied, covetnous of what others have etc.

Thanks
RC



krazyxsinner -> RE: Black liberation theology (3/18/2008 3:44:59 PM)

Black Liberation theology is nothing more than a another cult which uses Biblical terms to deceive people into accepting it as legitimate.



SuspenseWriter -> RE: Black liberation theology (3/18/2008 4:20:18 PM)

Well said, Earthless, RC, and KrazyX. We attend a large, racially-mixed church (probably 50% people of color), and a lot of them came out of churches like Wright's. The horror stories they relate of what they heard from those pulpits for years would make you weep.



GrahamCracker -> RE: Black liberation theology (3/18/2008 4:51:10 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: facedown

graham
i disagree if you are suggesting that liberation of the poor and helping the weak is not a "central tenent of christianity".


Where? That helping the weak and oppressed cannot be denied. But central? No. But the admonition to the oppressed to rebel against their oppressors, I deny that emphatically is in Christianity.



facedown -> RE: Black liberation theology (3/18/2008 6:57:31 PM)

bob97
would i agree? possibly.
it seems however, that there is much more than one person. and in regards to even a single person, there seems to be more than meets the eye. does that "excuse" any statement that might seem to bring division? no.

lightshineon
how so?

earthless
still haven't had the chance to read up a whole lot; however, your argument seems to be, that if one race/nationality/gender/etc is focused on in a message, it's to the demise of all others - to which i would disagree.
maybe you might know some pro and con websites that might help my education?

rcjames
where have i said anything about being rebelling?, and how does your question answer what i asked you?

krazyskinner
what is the consequence if what you believe is true?

graham
where or how is it a "central tenent"?
easy: something that is consequential is central.
i would also consider matt 5:1-10 "central"

god it seems, is in the liberation business - so to speak



rcjames -> RE: Black liberation theology (3/18/2008 7:06:40 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: facedown
rcjames
where have i said anything about being rebelling?, and how does your question answer what i asked you?


Then you do not know much about Black liberation theology, it is all about being owed, taking back what was stolen (in their minds), and rebellion against the ruling authority. Maybe you should research what you are going to defend.

Thanks
RC



earthless -> RE: Black liberation theology (3/18/2008 7:22:16 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: facedown

earthless
still haven't had the chance to read up a whole lot;


I hope you enjoy the Scripture provided.


quote:

ORIGINAL: facedown

however, your argument seems to be, that if one race/nationality/gender/etc is focused on in a message, it's to the demise of all others


That is not what is I said nor is what is going on with Jeremiah Wright. He is not merely focusing on a particular ethic creed or cultural block. No. He is outright racist, demeaning, vile, and cowardly in his attacks on any and all groups apart from his vision of "black America".

He is not solely focusing on the trials and tribulations of a certain group, no. He is promoting an agenda of hate that is identical to what one would hear in a Nation of Islam meeting. And as an individual that was deeply entrenched in Islam for 9 years, grew up with one of Louis Farrakhan's sons and have been in their home and broken bread with them. I know what I am talking about when I compare Wright's sermons and hate speech to what the NOI has been blaring out for decades.

It's a message absolutely contrary to Scripture and contrary to that of which a so-called Christian minister should be advocating and preaching.


quote:

ORIGINAL: facedown
maybe you might know some pro and con websites that might help my education?



In terms of race relations or spewers of racist speech?



GrahamCracker -> RE: Black liberation theology (3/18/2008 7:29:22 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: facedown

graham
where or how is it a "central tenent"?
easy: something that is consequential is central.
i would also consider matt 5:1-10 "central"

god it seems, is in the liberation business - so to speak


Huh? I suppose with that kind of unsubstantial answer one could interpret it any any way they want.



1love1God1way -> RE: Black liberation theology (3/18/2008 7:31:29 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: facedown

god it seems, is in the liberation business - so to speak


Yes. . . liberating captives from the yoke of sin. That's it.



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