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Name that "Apostle" or "Prophet" - 3/17/2008 1:53:15 PM
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Soxfan
Posts: 1504
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Connecticut
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The purpose of this thread is not to discuss whether these gifts (prophecy or church planting) are still in operation.
Rather....Any time there is a discussion of whether the "offices" of Prophet or Apostle still exist today, I've yet to see anyone provide even one example of a current person that qualifies as a FOUNDATIONAL Prophet or Apostle.
So I have a question:
For anyone that believes that these offices are in operation today, please provide me with someone who fits the Scriptural definition that defines the OFFICE of Prophet or Apostle.
- I'm not talking about someone with the gift of prophecy. I'm asking for someone that holds the Biblical office of Prophet
- I'm also not talking about some with apostolic giftings (church planting, etc). I'm asking for someone that holds the Biblical office of Apostle.
Thanks!
_____________________________
"This would be the first step in apostasy; men first forget the true, and then adore the false.".......C.H. Spurgeon
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RE: Name that "Apostle" or "Prophet" - 3/17/2008 3:17:01 PM
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wintery
Posts: 1808
Joined: 2/1/2007
From: nw alabama
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quote:
ORIGINAL: stateofgrace
LOL...I thought you were going to give us quotes, and then we'd have to guess who said it!
Now that _is_ funny.
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RE: Name that "Apostle" or "Prophet" - 3/17/2008 4:08:22 PM
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cybrjewls
Posts: 1479
Status: offline
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Greetings! It is written: he who is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he. For The Kingdom of God is at hand and living and active among the peoples of God today! Although there are only 24 elders who have crown and thrones chosen from across time, of whom 13 are the Apostles of Christ as it is written in revelation, there are two more witnesses that have special standing before God to come. Yet, it is written that at the mount of transfiguration, Christ chose two prophets: Moses and Elijah to appear with Him along with John, Peter, and James. Therefore, there are only 24 throned ones called elders and two olive brach trees annointed with oil from out of all of mankinds' history. Please notice that we have more writings from prophets, than positions for elders. This is because the Office of prophet of God is still extant as Jesus said regarding the future: Therefore I am sending you prophets and wise men and teachers. Some of them you will kill and crucify; others you will flog in your synagogues and pursue from town to town. Please notice that most of the books written after the coming of The Lord Jesus are regarding Church Doctrine and Gospel and not prophecy. For prophecy is usually spoken word of The Lord rather than written unless directed by God to do so as some of the prophets of old were.
However, there is reason to believe that prophets and prophecy can and will be extant among the people of God. For God chose to prophesy about how all of the people would experience the outpouring of God's Spirit in the last days of the times of the gentile nations. Therefore, God can use anyone or anything to prophecy if He so desires. For it is written: I tell you," he replied, "if they keep quiet, the stones will cry out." For Jesus had prophesied that you will not see me again until you say, 'Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.' This was fulfilled upon Christ's triumphant entry into The Temple of God on what is celebrated as palm Sunday today. Yet, prophecy and miracles are evidence of God's power and choices rather than the blessed assurance of one's salvation. They are a demonstration of The Spirit and of Power as the Apostle wrote. They bring glory to God for all that He does.
Every word that God speaks, will come to pass. Today all of the giftings that God gives are still operative and even greater things. For it is written: He will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father. Yet, among those chosen there is a special standing for the Apostles, some of the prophets of God, and the two witnesses. However, at the Throne Judgment (decisions) of God's Great Court; many will receive the gift of eternal life through the faith that was once for all entrusted to the saints of God Almighty, Amen.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Soxfan
The purpose of this thread is not to discuss whether these gifts (prophecy or church planting) are still in operation.
Rather....Any time there is a discussion of whether the "offices" of Prophet or Apostle still exist today, I've yet to see anyone provide even one example of a current person that qualifies as a FOUNDATIONAL Prophet or Apostle.
So I have a question:
For anyone that believes that these offices are in operation today, please provide me with someone who fits the Scriptural definition that defines the OFFICE of Prophet or Apostle.
- I'm not talking about someone with the gift of prophecy. I'm asking for someone that holds the Biblical office of Prophet
- I'm also not talking about some with apostolic giftings (church planting, etc). I'm asking for someone that holds the Biblical office of Apostle.
Thanks!
< Message edited by prophetica -- 3/17/2008 4:41:47 PM >
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RE: Name that "Apostle" or "Prophet" - 3/17/2008 4:49:50 PM
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wintery
Posts: 1808
Joined: 2/1/2007
From: nw alabama
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: prophetica
Every word that God speaks, will come to pass. Today all of the giftings that God gives are still operative and even greater things. For it is written: He will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father.
prophetica, isn't unfortunate that so many have interpreted "greater things" to mean greater good for themselves personally rather than the advancing of God's kingdom through the telling of the gospel? Isn't it as if to despise the simplicity of the gospel, that Christ died for us and we should be in right relationship with God and telling about God's goodness, isn't it as if to despise this that so many say, in essence, "Look at me! Hear what _I_ say! _I_ have God's word!" and draw attention unto themselves rather than the cross?
And this would include the subtlety of humility, of tears, of righteous indignation and other stances posed or believed that seek to draw followers--or customers--of a particular "ministry", and in doing so draw men away from Christ--2 Corintians 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtlety, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
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RE: Name that "Apostle" or "Prophet" - 3/17/2008 8:11:28 PM
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cybrjewls
Posts: 1479
Status: offline
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Greetings! Amen and Amen. There is no greater love than this, that one would give their life up for their bretheren in obedience to the High Calling of the cross in accordance with the will of God the Father. For it is written: But man, despite his riches, does not endure; he is like the beasts that perish. This is the fate of those who trust in themselves, and of their followers, who approve their sayings. And: The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. And, be on your guard against all types of greed. For a persons life does not consist in the abundance of their possessions. For it is written: You cannot serve both God and the demon of money and greed called Mammon. Either you will hate the one and love the other or be devoted to the One and detest the other. Instead a prophet of God called Elisha did not take anything from the ambassador from the north of Israel the servant of the King named Naman who was healed from his leprocy in obedience to the Word spoken of God through the prophet. For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil as it is written. Some eager for financial gain have shoved their pockets full of money rather pledged themselves to the hunger of righteousness that comes by faith in Christ. They have wandered away, if ever faithful, from the faith after Mammon. Although scribes are important for The Lord declared in the Gospel that He will send wise men and scribes as well as teachers, prophets, and Apostles; there is a point where one must send the free gifts that one has been bestowed, for if you see your neighbor without basic amenities as food, and clothes; then you will be called to account for not using the Word God has spoken to benefit others. For we are to seek after riches that build up the Kingdom of God through Good Works that God has prepared in advance for Us to do. For these things are declared by Jesus Christ to be necessary operations to take care of worldly wealth to win those over that are suffering hunger in the physical realm. So that it is practical, because God can call these to testify concerning our lack of giving when Word spoken was freely given not to benefit ourselves, but others' edification. Not for worldly profit for our organizations, but for treasures that will remain into paradise. For it is written: For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.' For Paul states: show me your faith without works, I will show you my faith by what I do. For faith without works is dead (spiritually), as Christ warned the Churches in revelation: I know your deeds; you have a reputation of being alive, but you are dead.
For the love of God is abundantly shown on a Cross at Calvary (Golgatha) outside of Jerusalem. For the spiritual terror that He faced on the cross and the groaning of the punishments that God bestowed upon Him were fierce and fiery and Merit favorable decisions (Judgments) regarding the persons involved in the work of the ministry of The Gospel of Grace. Putting oneself first is at least one of the problems pointed by the Apostle Paul in the Gospel letters to the Churches. For he says hymeneus who loves to be first. Therefore, Christ's Apostle wrote that in the Gospel of Peace there is longsuffering gentleness with respect to others; and especially due those who carry on the honorable and Sound Doctrinal Gospel teaching and instruction.
quote:
ORIGINAL: wintery
quote:
ORIGINAL: prophetica
Every word that God speaks, will come to pass. Today all of the giftings that God gives are still operative and even greater things. For it is written: He will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father.
prophetica, isn't unfortunate that so many have interpreted "greater things" to mean greater good for themselves personally rather than the advancing of God's kingdom through the telling of the gospel? Isn't it as if to despise the simplicity of the gospel, that Christ died for us and we should be in right relationship with God and telling about God's goodness, isn't it as if to despise this that so many say, in essence, "Look at me! Hear what _I_ say! _I_ have God's word!" and draw attention unto themselves rather than the cross?
And this would include the subtlety of humility, of tears, of righteous indignation and other stances posed or believed that seek to draw followers--or customers--of a particular "ministry", and in doing so draw men away from Christ--2 Corintians 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtlety, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
< Message edited by prophetica -- 3/17/2008 8:31:59 PM >
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RE: Name that "Apostle" or "Prophet" - 3/17/2008 8:58:51 PM
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cybrjewls
Posts: 1479
Status: offline
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LOL!!! I guess we all have our faults! A 'new' what?! Gospel?!! Gaw!! I notice, though, that the website does not have any mention of 'apostle' but, instead mentions Bishop which is biblical. Anyway, the term 'apostle' today is with a little upside down 'a'postle for Church planting and pontiff overseers etcetera like the 'See' of the Catholic Church called the Pope who purports the formal Chair of Peter and Paul today. We can, at least, respect the seat of the Apostles as Jesus (fulfilling the law) and Paul did honor the seat of the High Priest Moses the prophet when faced with the Sanhedrin when they went through the trials of in accordance with The Testimony of Jesus and God. Whether, or not, the seat is occupied by worthy people who submit in accordance to the High duties thereof.
quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
quote:
ORIGINAL: Soxfan
For anyone that believes that these offices are in operation today, please provide me with someone who fits the Scriptural definition that defines the OFFICE of Prophet or Apostle.
Thanks!
One of our new posters who has three times said I am a child of Hell and that I have a deceitful and wicked heart.. the website in his profile not only names an Apostle - but this "Apostle" has a new Bible out that is the true one and not the false one (66 books) that we use.
[edited quote to remove link]
< Message edited by Ps103 -- 3/19/2008 12:08:30 PM >
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RE: Name that "Apostle" or "Prophet" - 3/18/2008 8:15:29 AM
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stateofgrace
Posts: 1998
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
.....not only names an Apostle - but this "Apostle" has a new Bible out that is the true one and not the false one (66 books) that we use.
Wow. I just went over to that site. Quoting:
The Holy scriptures have been consolidated into one volume. These are not new scriptures, however, they're comprised of what is known as the King James Version, the Apocrypha and the book of Jasher which is mentioned in the book of Joshua and the book of Kings. Finally, we're now able to more perfectly follow the man of God, Pastor Jennings in the scriptures.
The book of Jasher?
_____________________________
America Needs Revival. Will you commit to pray for it?
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RE: Name that "Apostle" or "Prophet" - 3/18/2008 8:39:31 AM
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earthless
Posts: 6086
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: where pigeons are wearing sweaters....
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: prophetica
LOL!!! I guess we all have our faults! A 'new' what?! Gospel?!! Gaw!! I notice, though, that the website does not have any mention of 'apostle' but, instead mentions Bishop which is biblical. Anyway, the term 'apostle' today is with a little upside down 'a'postle for Church planting and pontiff overseers etcetera like the 'See' of the Catholic Church called the Pope who purports the formal Chair of Peter and Paul today. We can, at least, respect the seat of the Apostles as Jesus (fulfilling the law) and Paul did honor the seat of the High Priest Moses the prophet when faced with the Sanhedrin when they went through the trials of in accordance with The Testimony of Jesus and God. Whether, or not, the seat is occupied by worthy people who submit in accordance to the High duties thereof.
quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
quote:
ORIGINAL: Soxfan
For anyone that believes that these offices are in operation today, please provide me with someone who fits the Scriptural definition that defines the OFFICE of Prophet or Apostle.
Thanks!
One of our new posters who has three times said I am a child of Hell and that I have a deceitful and wicked heart.. the website in his profile not only names an Apostle - but this "Apostle" has a new Bible out that is the true one and not the false one (66 books) that we use.
I will try to find the page on that site where he is refered to as 'THE' Apostle...
They deny the Trinity, teach that only they are saved, and that if you were not baptized in only Jesus' name and under their authority you are hell bound, a spawn of Satan.
[edited quote to remove link]
< Message edited by Ps103 -- 3/19/2008 12:09:48 PM >
_____________________________
Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: Name that "Apostle" or "Prophet" - 3/18/2008 8:41:41 AM
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earthless
Posts: 6086
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: where pigeons are wearing sweaters....
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: stateofgrace
quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
.....not only names an Apostle - but this "Apostle" has a new Bible out that is the true one and not the false one (66 books) that we use.
Wow. I just went over to that site. Quoting:
The Holy scriptures have been consolidated into one volume. These are not new scriptures, however, they're comprised of what is known as the King James Version, the Apocrypha and the book of Jasher which is mentioned in the book of Joshua and the book of Kings. Finally, we're now able to more perfectly follow the man of God, Pastor Jennings in the scriptures.
The book of Jasher?
They FINALLY now say they have the full Word of God and that we have been mislead for over 2,000 years. All basic characteristics of a cult.
_____________________________
Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: Name that "Apostle" or "Prophet" - 3/18/2008 4:27:09 PM
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earthless
Posts: 6086
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: where pigeons are wearing sweaters....
Status: offline
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Prophetica Speak!
I swear there is an SNL skit here somewhere....
< Message edited by earthless -- 3/18/2008 4:37:50 PM >
_____________________________
Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: Name that "Apostle" or "Prophet" - 3/18/2008 5:05:19 PM
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lw9
Posts: 1139
Joined: 7/22/2005
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For all the talk of prophets and apostles on this website, why am I still waiting to see a name posted here. Strange... no one seems to mind throwing names about in the other threads.
If they exist, as some insist, then let us know. The lack of an answer from the 'prophetic' crowd is speaking pretty clearly.
< Message edited by lw9 -- 3/18/2008 5:12:09 PM >
_____________________________
Aperture Science. We do what we must because we can.
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RE: Name that "Apostle" or "Prophet" - 3/19/2008 8:23:43 AM
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Soxfan
Posts: 1504
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Connecticut
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: lw9
For all the talk of prophets and apostles on this website, why am I still waiting to see a name posted here. Strange... no one seems to mind throwing names about in the other threads.
If they exist, as some insist, then let us know. The lack of an answer from the 'prophetic' crowd is speaking pretty clearly.
Exactly!
Funny that I see all over this forum people claiming that the offices of "Apostle" and "Prophet" still exist today, yet I have yet to see anyone provide a name.
People like Juanita Bynum, Paul Cain, Bob Jones, and Mike Bickle claim to be "Prophets", and people like C Peter Wagner, Dutch Sheets, Cindy Jacobs, and Rick Joyner claim to be "Apostles".
Does anyone agree that any of these people are who they say they are? If you do, please provide Scriptural support.
Or please...feel free to provide a name we haven't discussed.
_____________________________
"This would be the first step in apostasy; men first forget the true, and then adore the false.".......C.H. Spurgeon
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RE: Name that "Apostle" or "Prophet" - 3/19/2008 10:54:30 AM
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wintery
Posts: 1808
Joined: 2/1/2007
From: nw alabama
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
One of our new posters who has three times said I am a child of Hell and that I have a deceitful and wicked heart..
earthless, that someone said these things to you makes me want to offer my concerns, that I am very sorry that this happened. It's not that I think you're having any trouble dealing with it, but when these type of things have been said to me it has been a sort of grief to hear it.
quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
the website in his profile http://forums.christianity.com/showProfile.aspx?memid=86838 not only names an Apostle - but this "Apostle" has a new Bible out that is the true one and not the false one (66 books) that we use.
I looked around a little there. Page two of the written questions and answers has a discussion of today's Apostles and their identification. I was going to copy and paste a couple of lines but I got a pop-up warning about copyrights.
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RE: Name that "Apostle" or "Prophet" - 3/19/2008 11:30:37 AM
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rlj
Posts: 2130
Joined: 4/14/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
For anyone that believes that these offices are in operation today, please provide me with someone who fits the Scriptural definition that defines the OFFICE of Prophet or Apostle.
Define exactly what you mean please. The people I have come into contact with whose life and fruits in the prophetic show an anointing from the Lord aren't selling prayer cloths, trinity oil or hawking for donations on TBN. Success for these people isn't measured as the world would measure or how some christians would measure but in their humility and faithfulness in carrying out what the Spirit has put within them.
_____________________________
-Roger
This is who I'm voting for. He is from the same party I voted for last time. This is consistent with my belief in the failure of the two party system and my disgust with it.
http://www.baldwin08.com/#
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RE: Name that "Apostle" or "Prophet" - 3/19/2008 9:58:14 PM
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cybrjewls
Posts: 1479
Status: offline
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Greetings lw9! Please notice the Apostle admonishes that he cares very little whether he is judged by others or any worldly court. The Apostle has nothing to prove to others in front of others for what is done in secret is accountable to God and He will reveal the motives of mens hearts.
quote:
ORIGINAL: lw9
For all the talk of prophets and apostles on this website, why am I still waiting to see a name posted here. Strange... no one seems to mind throwing names about in the other threads.
If they exist, as some insist, then let us know. The lack of an answer from the 'prophetic' crowd is speaking pretty clearly.
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RE: Name that "Apostle" or "Prophet" - 3/19/2008 10:11:49 PM
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cybrjewls
Posts: 1479
Status: offline
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Greetings wintery! Here is the content that you wanted to post:
Question: Are there Apostles today? Please explain with scripture references.
Answer: Yes, there definitely are Apostles today! The office of the Apostleship was set in the church by the Lord Jesus. As long as the church is on the earth this office as well as others (Elders, Teachers, Prophets, Evangelist, Deacon, Helps etc.) will still exist. (Eph. 4:11-13, I Corinths. 12:28-29.) and as God continues to build his bride, his church, his building, he will set some in these offices for the perfecting of the church and work of the ministry by giving them the ability and zeal to work, by the Holy Ghost. Many fools have tried to eliminate the office of the Apostles simply because they don't believe that God can deal with a man the way he dealt with the former Apostles. To be an Apostle or a Prophet of the Lord Jesus a man must be instructed, called and sent to preach the Gospel by God himself. I submit to you that that does not happen very often, but when one is sent of God the authority and power given to the man will be clear to many. He will not deviate from the word of God and will cry out unceasingly against sin and the ills of the world. His work will prove his calling.
quote:
ORIGINAL: wintery
quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
One of our new posters who has three times said I am a child of Hell and that I have a deceitful and wicked heart..
earthless, that someone said these things to you makes me want to offer my concerns, that I am very sorry that this happened. It's not that I think you're having any trouble dealing with it, but when these type of things have been said to me it has been a sort of grief to hear it.
quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
the website in his profile http://forums.christianity.com/showProfile.aspx?memid=86838 not only names an Apostle - but this "Apostle" has a new Bible out that is the true one and not the false one (66 books) that we use.
I looked around a little there. Page two of the written questions and answers has a discussion of today's Apostles and their identification. I was going to copy and paste a couple of lines but I got a pop-up warning about copyrights.
< Message edited by prophetica -- 3/19/2008 10:34:06 PM >
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