Be mindful of what you say and think... (Full Version)

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maddog4god -> Be mindful of what you say and think... (3/20/2008 6:18:43 AM)

My friend has a daughter who has been serially and systematically raped for five years. In helping my friend with this, it has unearthed very deep places in me that need healing, much to my suprise.

last night we had a guest speaker at church and it ran long. I choose to leave at about 10:00 when someone said to me, "Oh you are leaving now just when it's getting good?" to which I replied, Well 5:30 AM does come early and they replied, I know that's the time my husband leaves the house.

Now the truth was that the week prior to that I had severe insomnia related to the issues I am dealing with. Issues I do not embrace, want nor enjoy. Issues that are life threatening to me and very difficult to manage. I didn't feel obligated to tell her that - but I can't help but feel that she "judged" me for leaving.

Additionally it was a service on the joy of the lord and it was most likely very beneficial to a lot of people. I however, was not "there" at that moment. It's hard to buy into a "care free, evil free" life deal when one has been raped for ten years as a child.

I think we, as a whole, myself included, need to be very mindful of judging others and the comments we make behind that. My friend could not be in worship for a long time when she first found out. I didn't understand that because for me it's worship or die - BUT I accepted that that is where she was and I never made her feel guilty for that.

Things are not always as they appear and I think it better for us to be mindful of that. Some of the most wounded people you will EVER meet are the best actors of "I'm wonderful" - it doesn't take away from their woundedness it just means they have learned to hide it better then most.

The next time you are tempted to judge someone (and can we be really honest here and just admit that we DO do that) - think again - you most likely do not have all the information you need to do so and your behind is not exactly sitting on the throne.



earthless -> RE: Be mindful of what you say and think... (3/20/2008 8:40:35 AM)

Great post.... and reminds me why I am so glad I don't go to church during the week. I think it's really irresponsible for a local church to have anything during the work week go past 9:00 PM. Children have to go to school, people get up early for work, etc..

But then again.. some full time pastors forget, lose touch with, the fact that he can sleep in till he pleases the next day. His congregation may have its people getting up at 4:00 AM, etc to face another 12-15 hour day.

And some people feel that if they do not go or stay they are "bad" Christians.



bluestone -> RE: Be mindful of what you say and think... (3/20/2008 8:49:30 AM)

Great points!

I attended a church for many years where people were judged not only by what they did not didn't do, wear, go, etc. but also by attendance.

"You are the cream of the crop" One pastor used to tell the Wednesday night group. People who did not attend all services regularly were not allowed in leadership.

When people were taken into membership, they had to promise to attend all services faithfully, unless "providentially hindered".[8|]

Judging people who leave services early, or who don't get to every service really is a form of snobbery.



Pauley464 -> RE: Be mindful of what you say and think... (3/20/2008 10:54:36 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: bluestone

Great points!

I attended a church for many years where people were judged not only by what they did not didn't do, wear, go, etc. but also by attendance.

"You are the cream of the crop" One pastor used to tell the Wednesday night group. People who did not attend all services regularly were not allowed in leadership.

When people were taken into membership, they had to promise to attend all services faithfully, unless "providentially hindered".[8|]

Judging people who leave services early, or who don't get to every service really is a form of snobbery.




It's not just snobbery, it's legalism.

I whole-heartedly agree with the caution that we should be very careful of how we judge people depending only on what we observe. What we see is never the whole truth of a situation. No one, standing on the outside, knows what is being said, done, heard, felt, thought or experienced by another away from the prying eyes of the public.
I have been a victim of this kind of judgemental attitude recently. I live in a government subsidized apartment building for the elderly and handicapped and I bring an eight and ten year old girl to my apartment each afternoon monay through friday to tutor them in reading. Well, I was in the community area of the building one saturday afternoon and overheard a couple of elderly ladies gossiping about me and they were telling each other what they believed I was doing with them. I will not described the vile things they were saying but they are potentially ruinous to my reputation.

You never know what is going in the hearts, minds and lives of other people nor whether or not they are hiding some secret pain when they smile and say "I'm fine." Never assume anything, especially that you know what is going on with them in private.



bluestone -> RE: Be mindful of what you say and think... (3/20/2008 11:02:03 AM)

It happens when we preach commitment to a church as being the same as commitment to Christ.



SingHisPraise -> RE: Be mindful of what you say and think... (3/20/2008 11:14:19 AM)

This is one of the things that our pastor is always reminding the congregation of. You don't know what is going on in someone's life, so you should always be aware of what you say and how you say it. And edify one another, don't criticize. We have people in our congregation that work the night shift, and will come to the services late. He never berates them, but will gently remind the rest of the congregation that it is better to have them in the services, than not at all, and they are making a sacrifice to be in the service (losing sleep is their sacrifice).

I know our own pastor is going through some terrible crisis' right now, he gets awakened at all hours of the night to care for the congregation. Both the assistant pastor and associate pastor are laid up with illnesses, and he has to do all and be all. So maybe we should also include pastors when we are being mindful of what we say or think. Just my humble opinion.



Kat_D -> RE: Be mindful of what you say and think... (3/20/2008 11:21:33 AM)

While I understand the OP's point and appreciate the reminder, we also have to be careful not to read into comments people make to us. I not sure I would interpret, "Oh you are leaving now just when it's getting good?" as a judgment on me. Sometimes when we are sensitive about a particular issue, we can "hear" condemnation when there actually is none.

However, I know there are busybodies in every church who think it's their business to watch what everyone else is doing or not doing and consider it their job to fix them.[:'(]

Now, what Bluestone was speaking of...that's just wrong on every level.



earthless -> RE: Be mindful of what you say and think... (3/20/2008 11:45:06 AM)

Great posts everyone - this thread has blessed me greatly today. Thank you all. [:)]



Dakotasunbeam -> RE: Be mindful of what you say and think... (3/20/2008 6:08:57 PM)

maddog,

I'm sorry to hear that you are going through this.

But I agree your words go both ways. Sometimes when we are going through difficulty, almost anything can sound harsh. Secondly, we must not judge people on attendance, etc. IMHO attendance means nothing anyway, as you're not really fellowshipping with anyone; just listing to the days lecture. You could get it on mp3 and listen to it in the car or going for a jog.

I try to keep this scripture in mind . . . its helped a lot.

Also take no heed unto all words that are spoken; lest thou hear hine servent curse thee: For oftentimes also thine own heart knoweth that thou thyself likewise hast cursed others.--Eccle 7:21-22.

Again, I'm sorry for your pain. Take comfort in His word.



GroupW -> RE: Be mindful of what you say and think... (3/20/2008 6:49:52 PM)

Good thoughts - and a good reminder for someone like me that puts his foot in his mouth so often my tongue has tread marks.

Thanks.



Liveloved -> RE: Be mindful of what you say and think... (3/20/2008 7:42:22 PM)

Good thoughts and a good admonition as well. . .judging others does come too easily.

In defense of the person at your service, however, I do not hear or perceive judgment at all in what you related to us. I hear someone who is perhaps clueless but that is a far ways from judging. So, I ask, perhaps it is you who is doing the judging??? We do need to be careful. I am listening to you, dear one.



sunshine4God -> RE: Be mindful of what you say and think... (3/20/2008 10:08:23 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: GroupW

Good thoughts - and a good reminder for someone like me that puts his foot in his mouth so often my tongue has tread marks.

Thats exactly what I was thinking.



Focusing -> RE: Be mindful of what you say and think... (3/20/2008 11:05:58 PM)

Great points maddog.

I'm a single mom with an ADHD child, and we reached a point last fall shortly after the school year began when we had to stop attending mid-week services as well as Sunday evening services so that my son could stay on a fairly strict schedule (never mind time to eat and do homework mid-week). It was really tough on me, but rather than offering a word of encouragement, I was faced with comments that amounted to attempts to make me feel *guilty* for not doing what others thought I should do. Because of my upbringing, I'm not easily guilted into anything, and although I pointed out that my first responsibility after worshiping God was to make sure I was conscientious in running my house properly, it didn't mean much because *we weren't there every time the doors were open*. [sm=aside.gif] It was one of the reasons why we switched churches. I figure I can always download the sermons and get the meat without having all the *packaging* getting in the way and distracting me.


God bless you as you deal with some incredibly painful issues. [sm=heart.gif]



ladyingrace1979 -> RE: Be mindful of what you say and think... (3/21/2008 12:10:04 AM)

All I can say is Amen!

How about instead of judging we say a prayer for the person, and let God work in their heart. Who knows He might just do some work on us!



ladyingrace1979 -> RE: Be mindful of what you say and think... (3/21/2008 12:13:08 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: earthless

Great post.... and reminds me why I am so glad I don't go to church during the week. I think it's really irresponsible for a local church to have anything during the work week go past 9:00 PM. Children have to go to school, people get up early for work, etc..

But then again.. some full time pastors forget, lose touch with, the fact that he can sleep in till he pleases the next day. His congregation may have its people getting up at 4:00 AM, etc to face another 12-15 hour day.

And some people feel that if they do not go or stay they are "bad" Christians.

I find the middle section of your post offensive. Many of our pastors put in 50 and 60 hour weeks. Who is the person who is called to a bedside in the middle of the night.

I think you might want to walk a mile in a pastor's shoes before you judge.



maddog4god -> RE: Be mindful of what you say and think... (3/21/2008 8:09:34 AM)

quote:

"Oh you are leaving now just when it's getting good?" to which I replied, Well 5:30 AM does come early and they replied, I know that's the time my husband leaves the house.


I absolutely agree that when you've been ripped to shreds it is easy to be sensitive and I have had times when that was true.

I had no issue with the first statement at all - and I did not convey the body language and inflection when I wrote this all.

The second statement was made haughtily and was like, "We know what time it is and we're staying."

My main point is this - you can not look at someone and know where they are and what they are going through. Too many times people with good intentions even say the most insensitive things (ie following a miscarriage or still birth - "You can always have more.").

Me? I have been tremendously that way in that God rather keeps those people from me - but I have seen my friend have the WORST things said to her (the one mentioned above) and others as well. There's a reason (at least one) we are called not to judge - we are simply not fit.

I have been in the past very guilty of judging church people and I am very mindful of that now because it's been an issue in the past.



armydude -> RE: Be mindful of what you say and think... (3/21/2008 8:31:57 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ladyingrace1979

quote:

ORIGINAL: earthless

Great post.... and reminds me why I am so glad I don't go to church during the week. I think it's really irresponsible for a local church to have anything during the work week go past 9:00 PM. Children have to go to school, people get up early for work, etc..

But then again.. some full time pastors forget, lose touch with, the fact that he can sleep in till he pleases the next day. His congregation may have its people getting up at 4:00 AM, etc to face another 12-15 hour day.

And some people feel that if they do not go or stay they are "bad" Christians.

I find the middle section of your post offensive. Many of our pastors put in 50 and 60 hour weeks. Who is the person who is called to a bedside in the middle of the night.

I think you might want to walk a mile in a pastor's shoes before you judge.
I was thinking something very similar to this, but I'm glad I read the entire thread before responding.



earthless -> RE: Be mindful of what you say and think... (3/21/2008 8:34:30 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ladyingrace1979

I find the middle section of your post offensive. Many of our pastors put in 50 and 60 hour weeks. Who is the person who is called to a bedside in the middle of the night.

I think you might want to walk a mile in a pastor's shoes before you judge.


Good, I am glad it stung some. I speak as a former pastor and someone who has been deeply involved in ministry and seen the good and the very ugly of our churches. But I also know that MANY do not put in the 50 and 60 hour weeks you speak of.. and even when they do they do not have a rigid/set schedule that they must abide by every single day of the week like someone who holds a regular job.

Point being that it is wrong on both the pastor's part and the members part to have services during the middle of the week that go into the late night hours and expect all to attend and be there till the end otherwise they are viewed as "bad" members.

Family is to be our first ministry and yet we know many people get so wrapped up in 'Churchianity" that their children suffer from being in church so much, their marriages suffer, their homes suffer.. all because they are such "good" Christians.

Then when their families fall apart, etc.. they come to the church to crying about why their kids and husbands went astray.



ajlewis -> RE: Be mindful of what you say and think... (3/21/2008 8:58:25 AM)

quote:

When people were taken into membership, they had to promise to attend all services faithfully, unless "providentially hindered".[8|]

quote:

It happens when we preach commitment to a church as being the same as commitment to Christ.
I've found this to be the case with regards to baptism. If you're baptized in a particular church then you're "obligated" to join and support that church.
...keep me away from those kinds of places.



Focusing -> RE: Be mindful of what you say and think... (3/21/2008 9:43:42 AM)

quote:

Family is to be our first ministry and yet we know many people get so wrapped up in 'Churchianity" that their children suffer from being in church so much, their marriages suffer, their homes suffer.. all because they are such "good" Christians.


Thank you earthless!

It is so easy for people to forget that time at home to just hang out with their spouse and/or kids and give them the love and undivided attention they so desperately need and crave is VERY important. In this world of busyness, it's easy to forget ....... and those are some of the best memories. [:)]



And if we play Bible trivia together, we are accomplishing a couple things at once. [:D]



DaveW -> RE: Be mindful of what you say and think... (3/21/2008 11:44:06 AM)

quote:

And some people feel that if they do not go or stay they are "bad" Christians.
quote:

Judging people who leave services early, or who don't get to every service really is a form of snobbery.

I attended a church in High School that had a sunday night service that ALWAYS went to midnight. It started at 7.30. Some concerned parents asked to have it moved to 6.30 to get out earlier. It still went to midnight. THey moved it to 6 and then 5.30. It STILL went to midnight. So they put it back to 7.30 and the families with children just stopped going.

And there was a woman who, everytime they had a testimony time, said that she was very happy she had not missed a sunday morning, sunday evening and midweek service in over 45 years.
Never missed a single service.
That was her whole testimony.

Too sad.



DaveW -> RE: Be mindful of what you say and think... (3/21/2008 11:54:41 AM)

quote:

Then when their families fall apart, etc.. they come to the church to crying about why their kids and husbands went astray.
That pastor once said that the families that were falling apart in that congregation was because they needed to be in church MORE and perhaps they should have 3 midweek services.....



earthless -> RE: Be mindful of what you say and think... (3/21/2008 11:59:18 AM)

Ugh.



armydude -> RE: Be mindful of what you say and think... (3/21/2008 1:14:46 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaveW
And there was a woman who, everytime they had a testimony time, said that she was very happy she had not missed a sunday morning, sunday evening and midweek service in over 45 years.
Never missed a single service.
That was her whole testimony.

Too sad.
Very sad. That's all she can brag about? Herself not missing a service?



armydude -> RE: Be mindful of what you say and think... (3/21/2008 1:18:12 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaveW

quote:

Then when their families fall apart, etc.. they come to the church to crying about why their kids and husbands went astray.
That pastor once said that the families that were falling apart in that congregation was because they needed to be in church MORE and perhaps they should have 3 midweek services.....
I would have laughed right in front of him. But then I've never been known for tact. I don't believe we as Christians should stay away from church, but to attend every single time the doors are open is simply the other extreme. Two weeks ago I was out of my home church on Sunday morning while I was counseling someone. My pastor's response? "I hear you were doing some good things Sunday. Keep up the good work!" There are some good pastors out there. I promise.



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