the calling of an artist...

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techne -> the calling of an artist... (3/23/2008 2:16:18 PM)
i'm curious -- if being an artist is a calling (and i am stating that it is a calling), what does that calling entail? what are the responsibilities and expectations of an artist as they walk out their calling? what defines an artist? what does an artist do? what is the artist's role in society/ culture? what training do we pursue? who are our examples? how do we grow and mature as artists? what are the hallmarks of that maturity? how do we determine success? what does that look like?

Dancre -> RE: the calling of an artist... (3/23/2008 5:15:21 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: techne i'm curious -- if being an artist is a calling (and i am stating that it is a calling), what does that calling entail? first of all, I wouldn't call my writing a calling as I would call it what I do. A calling is more of a ministry, like pastoring or a missionary. I write b/c it's all I want to do. I want it more than the breath in my lungs and can't think of doing anything else. I love getting lost in my own story. It's more than writing, it's disappearing. what are the responsibilities and expectations of an artist as they walk out their calling? what defines an artist? what does an artist do? REsponsibilies include being the best I can be and learning all I can to improve my writing. It means not cutting corners and being led by God[s Spirit. what is the artist's role in society/ culture? what training do we pursue? who are our examples? I write what God tells me to write, not what man THINKS I should write. I see so many christians who have a man-made agenda of what is 'appropriate' for art and what isn't. Honestly, I could give a rat's butt about man's agenda. I bow my knee to God, not man. You don't like it, don't buy my books. If folks give me their 'lists' of what to write and what not to write, then I use their lists as tissue to blow my nose. Training includes classes, books, articles, reading, reading, reading. Examples for me are Oprah's books b/c they are well-written and God laid upon my heart to read them to learn to write. I only read well-written books, secular and christian. how do we grow and mature as artists? what are the hallmarks of that maturity? I grow by writing and learning, learning and writing. I always try to learn something new. how do we determine success? what does that look like? I know i've succeeded when folks say, what happens next?? Success means are you loving what you are doing? Or are you just doing it? It's all about heart.

Giulia -> RE: the calling of an artist... (3/23/2008 6:38:59 PM)
Those are a lot of questions you ask and would take a long time to answer properly. I have a few thoughts off the cuff: Art is a form of expression and communication. It communicates our culture and sometimes also influences our culture. Anyone would think the hallmarks of success are money and fame, for a Christian I don't think this necessarily marks success, I think staying humble and pointing people to God marks success. Sometimes art and the artists is worshipped above God. When this happens, no matter how successful you may be by world standards, you have failed to communicate your experience adequately as humility should certainly mark it. I used to think only other Christians should be our examples, but there are many people in the world through whom we can learn much from, as long as we are then able to remember who we are. If our message does not speak address issues of justice and mercy, obedience and righteousness, if it says nothing about Jesus Christ or His attributes, then we should re-evaluate our work, because it would be useless to God. That is if you are a Christian......... There is a huge dilemma involved.

armydude -> RE: the calling of an artist... (3/23/2008 6:59:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: techne what are the responsibilities and expectations of an artist as they walk out their calling? what defines an artist? what does an artist do? I can't give all the responsibilities because I simply don't know them. But one main responsibility is to be honest about your work. Don't misrepresent it (purposefully or not) because you could easily lose your target audience in the semantics.

Giulia -> RE: the calling of an artist... (3/23/2008 7:05:19 PM)
Yes I agree, having said all the above I have seen some great artists giving expression of life, this also speaks of God. I think that unless you have had some profound experience, then you don't have much to say or share about. Relationship with God is profound and worthy to be spoken about. You may only touch one; that is success because one is more important than all the riches on earth to God and one may also change the world.

Giulia -> RE: the calling of an artist... (3/23/2008 7:57:11 PM)
I don't think it is a "calling" as such, rather a form of expression and communication, just to reiterate (geez I learned sum big words lol!).[:D] Preaching is an art, so is fighting. All expressions of many parts of the one Body. To sum it up in one simple sentence: If the form of communication you choose to use communicates God's love and character to them, then it is successful.

funny_girl -> RE: the calling of an artist... (3/23/2008 8:46:36 PM)
What type of artist are you talking about? Art, drama, dance, music????

funny_girl -> RE: the calling of an artist... (3/23/2008 8:51:46 PM)
5. what are the hallmarks of that maturity? When you can receive constructive criticism and it not devastate you. The fruits of the spirit are evident in your life. Being secure in who God made you. You are able to make mistakes and fall forward growing from each mistake until you get it right. Admitting your mistakes, moving forward and being a team player. Not hogging the credit or taking a bow at any and every opportunity. how do we determine success? If you did your very best, included others and gave credit where credit is due, that's success! what does that look like? Success is when you realize you did your best, recognize any mistakes and grow from them.

armydude -> RE: the calling of an artist... (3/23/2008 8:54:52 PM)
I would like to add that regardless of how good or bad your art is (whatever form) there will be people that don't like it. Don't try to please everyone, because it simply can't be done. Express yourself, accept the praise that comes, and take criticism the way it's meant. It's likely not an attack against you so don't take it personal.

Alonzo_O_James -> RE: the calling of an artist... (3/24/2008 12:27:11 AM)
I beleive that C.S.Lewis said something about how we didn't need more Christian Artists, just more artists who were Christians. Some thoughts I have about being an artist include, always be honest, no matter what, ALWAYS BE HONEST, no matter what. Don't worry about what ANY society says. Just follow your deepest honest core, and don't censor yourself. I beleive God expects and welcomes un-censored honesty, and so will your audience if they are honest with themselves. And don't worry about what other think too much, if it's good, there will be an audience for it. Always working at getting better and being as good as possible should be all you care about. And don't compare yourself with others, that can be deadly. Dedicate it to all to God from Day 1. Also, there are no rules, and the rules are meant to be broken.

Beck34 -> RE: the calling of an artist... (3/24/2008 12:45:39 AM)
God gives each of us a gift. To not use it for His glory..........well, you could lose it. He said, "Be still, and know that I am God." If we listen, he will teach us how to use our gifts. My particular gift allows me to share some of the craziest things with people whether by speaking to them or writing about it. He moves us, as artists, in ways that He doesn't move other people. It is up to us t6o listen, and to share what He teaches us. Our role is to share what we learn about God through our art so that we can open doors to salvation. Only He can truely answer the questions that you seek. Just be still, and He will show you the answers.

Giulia -> RE: the calling of an artist... (3/24/2008 2:40:45 AM)
quote: I would like to add that regardless of how good or bad your art is (whatever form) there will be people that don't like it. Don't try to please everyone, because it simply can't be done. Express yourself, accept the praise that comes, and take criticism the way it's meant. It's likely not an attack against you so don't take it personal. I was thinking before (no I don't always do that[:D]), trees need fertilizer and sometimes you need that dung in there to help you grow, the real trees who are truly working for God and in Him will be revealed and the dross will be burned, the dung will help us too.[:D] I'd say **** if I was allowed to, but I think it will be edited.

rcjames -> RE: the calling of an artist... (3/24/2008 9:23:37 AM)
Artistic ability is a talent, not a calling. As what to do with that talent, I would suggest that one do with it as with the rest of their life. (1Co 10:31) Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God. Thanks RC

Kat_D -> RE: the calling of an artist... (3/24/2008 10:33:21 AM)
quote: what are the responsibilities and expectations of an artist as they walk out their calling? what defines an artist? what does an artist do? If an artist is called by God to use the special gift He has given them, the expectation is that they don't sin with their art; that their art would never be offensive to God and it would always glorify Him. If an artist choses to create biblical artwork then there is the additional responsibility to truthfully portray it as the Word of God says it happened. If it is imperative that we not add or subtract from the Word of God, I think the same applies to biblical works of art. quote: what is the artist's role in society/ culture? what training do we pursue? who are our examples? In the sense that it is a calling by God, then it is required that you learn as much as you can and hone your skills as much as you are able in order to properly represent Him. As a Biblical counselor, if I don't continually study the Word, I'm not going to represent Christ very well to the women I counsel. I was mentored and still look to others in the my field for their input on what I do, as should artists, if they expect to be the best that they can be. quote: how do we grow and mature as artists? what are the hallmarks of that maturity? For an artist called by God to continue to grow and mature, first and foremost, they need to be sure their relationship with the Lord is nurtured and flourishing. Other signs of maturity are the ability to accept criticism about their work without being offended and to accept compliments without getting puffed up. quote: how do we determine success? what does that look like? Again, success is never compromising the truth and glorifying God in the execution and presentation of the art, and most importantly, success is when... "17...whatever you do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through Him." -Colossians 3

Liveloved -> RE: the calling of an artist... (3/24/2008 10:39:34 AM)
I think the topic of this discussion is inappropriate. This was part of a discussion that proved to be very hurtful to someone who was one of us---kisstheson. I am only participating in the question to discourage others from continuing the discussion. I think we should be grieving over what we do/how we treat others here. We are supposed to be living out the life of Christ as we call ourselves by His name. In my opinion, this is not.

Kat_D -> RE: the calling of an artist... (3/24/2008 10:46:57 AM)
[sm=aside.gif] Well, if indeed, the thread is based on what you say it is, no one would have known until you mentioned it!

armydude -> RE: the calling of an artist... (3/24/2008 10:53:42 AM)
I can understand where you're coming from, but I can say that I didn't see (in the thread you're mentioning) any intentionally hurtful comments toward anyone. The fact is that artists should not live in a vacuum. A smart artist will listen to critics and realize that he can't please everyone. Graciously accept both praise and criticism, and most importantly grow some thick skin. (I had to learn this one the hard way.)

TMeeks -> RE: the calling of an artist... (3/24/2008 11:09:34 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: rcjames Artistic ability is a talent, not a calling. As what to do with that talent, I would suggest that one do with it as with the rest of their life. (1Co 10:31) Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God. Thanks RC THis view of 'calling' is far too narrow and denigrates the very reasons why some are called to be artists and some are called to be in the pulpit. This compartmentalized viewpoint is one of the reasons why artists find it hard to find those who appreciate their God given gifts and why so many Christians seems completely ignorant of the importance of art in the life of the church.

techne -> RE: the calling of an artist... (3/24/2008 11:21:27 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Liveloved I think the topic of this discussion is inappropriate. This was part of a discussion that proved to be very hurtful to someone who was one of us---kisstheson. to be honest, this thread is in response to that previous thread. unfortunately, that discussion became personal, and i want to explore the larger issues raised in that thread. if you look at my commentary you will see that i was primarily trying to explore and raise questions about art. questions such as: how does it convey meaning? how does one marry form and content to best effect? how does one engage with/ respond to criticism? how does one determine whether their work is effective (or not)? how does one critique and respond to art? what is the artist's reponsibility as a creator of images and texts? what is a viewer's responsibility as a consumer of those images and texts? i don't think those questions are inappropriate. i actually am interested in responses to these questions -- they are questions i often engage with when speaking with other artists (christian or not), or with christians and various christian leaders. i think they have an important impact on people, and in particular myself (and other artists). as part of the body, working within and outside of church culture, i am interested in other christians' ideas about artists and their role within and outside the church because that impacts me. i may or may not agree, but those comments are things i can learn from or engage with i.e. educate people about. but this thread isn't about kisstheson - it's about the calling (or not, evidently) of the artist, and various aspects of what it means to walk that out. quote: ORIGINAL: Liveloved I am only participating in the question to discourage others from continuing the discussion. I think we should be grieving over what we do/how we treat others here. We are supposed to be living out the life of Christ as we call ourselves by His name. In my opinion, this is not. well...that's unfair. the other thread did grieve me. i do, in fact, think that there was definitely insensitivity shown in several instances. on the other hand, we are also all adults here. my intention was (and is) simply to engage in a discussion about the above (read the thread title -- it's about the calling of "the artist" not any one individual), without it being personal, and - hopefully - to sharpen, challenge and ultimately equip. kisstheson has the option and freedom to engage this thread or not. as do you. i don't think it appropriate that you try to censor me. if the thread was inappropriate, i'm sure a moderator would contact me and close it down.

Kat_D -> RE: the calling of an artist... (3/24/2008 11:27:44 AM)
quote: This compartmentalized viewpoint is one of the reasons why artists find it hard to find those who appreciate their God given gifts and why so many Christians seems completely ignorant of the importance of art in the life of the church. Or perhaps a lot of Christians just don't do it very well. It is an ongoing joke among many people I know that if you need a service done, DON'T hire a Christian, because you'll end up with a mess on your hands. I'm not sure if every occupation is a calling, but I do know that God expects Christians to use their calling/occupation as an opportunity for ministry and to represent Him well no matter what they do. Yes, even plumbers can represent Christ and minister on the job ...but, first and foremost, they need to make sure their pants aren't too small!![sm=blush.gif]

Beck34 -> RE: the calling of an artist... (3/24/2008 11:28:27 AM)
I know that people can be harsh in their criticism. I have run into my share of that. I am not niave to say the least. The question I have to ask you is this. Who do you do it for? It is not up to us to please man. We must keep our focus on Christ! Then, and onlythen, can we accept the criticism of others.

TMeeks -> RE: the calling of an artist... (3/24/2008 11:34:22 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: techne i'm curious -- if being an artist is a calling (and i am stating that it is a calling), what does that calling entail? what are the responsibilities and expectations of an artist as they walk out their calling? what defines an artist? what does an artist do? what is the artist's role in society/ culture? what training do we pursue? who are our examples? how do we grow and mature as artists? what are the hallmarks of that maturity? how do we determine success? what does that look like? When we are formed in the womb, God has designed us so that we are completely and utterly unique individuals. Our 'gifting' is formed as our brains are constructed as uniquely as our fingerprints. There are seven different areas in our brain that form a priority in which thoughts are processed and stored. The order in which our own particular brains process thoughts is not only what makes us 'US'; but, it determines our unique 'Gifting' from God. The one gifted as an artist sees things more acutely, or hears things more acutely or can verbalize more clearly than the persons having other gifting. If an artist is given a unique gift it follows that what they have to offer to the world, in its purest and highest form, is going to be unique and valuable... even if that value is never appreciated by others. The value of art is that it exists as a unique expression. But, as with all gifts, we have to be good stewards and that means taking the training and development of our art seriously. One of my clients rotates works by local artists in the halways of their building each month. So, I get to explore the artwork by many local artists in a year. The difference in the CRAFT of art, from artist to artist is enormous. Some make you cringe and others make you soar. But, an artist, particularly a Christian, must also be disciplined in the working out of their calling. If they are to render Biblical themes they must be Biblically sound. If they render abstract themes then they need to be bold and courageous in exploring new abstract forms of communication. But, always, they should remember that God created them uniquely and gave them their unique gifts and ask themselves, if they do not create the art that comes from these gifts within, then who will? Artists can leave holes in the fabric of our lives simply by giving up and listening to the ignorant telling them they are wasting their time.

Beck34 -> RE: the calling of an artist... (3/24/2008 11:42:35 AM)
The main thing to remember is to research the people you are involved with, Christian or not. If you don't you will wind up with a mess. You also must remember to stay true to what God has inspired you to do. Don't allow someone to taint it with their interjections.

techne -> RE: the calling of an artist... (3/24/2008 11:56:08 AM)
thought i'd throw these scripture passages into the mix. they are ultimately the base for my thoughts on these issues, though obviously the role and responsibility of the artist is a larger one than creating and decorating the tabernacle of meeting (and later the temple) - the principles are integral. exodus 31. 1-11 then the Lord spoke to moses, saying: "see, i have called by name bezalel the son of uri, the son of hur, of the tribe of judah. and i have filled him with the spirit of G-d, in wisdom, in understanding, in knowledge, and in all manner of workmanship, to design artistic works, to work in gold, in silver, in bronze, in cutting jewels for setting, in carving wood, and to work in all manner of workmanship. Aand i, indeed i, have appointed with him aholiab the son of ahisamach, of the tribe of dan; and I have put wisdom in the hearts of all who are gifted artisans, that they may make all that i have commanded you: the tabernacle of meeting, the ark of the testimony and the mercy seat that is on it, and all the furniture of the tabernacle -- the table and its utensils, the pure gold lampstand with all its utensils, the altar of incense, the altar of burnt offering with all its utensils, and the laver and its base-- the garments of ministry, the holy garments for aaron the priest and the garments of his sons, to minister as priests, and the anointing oil and sweet incense for the holy place. according to all that i have commanded you they shall do." exodus 35. 30-35 and moses said to the children of israel, "see, the Lord has called by name bezalel the son of uri, the son of hur, of the tribe of judah; and he has filled him with the spirit of G-d, in wisdom and understanding, in knowledge and all manner of workmanship, to design artistic works, to work in gold and silver and bronze, in cutting jewels for setting, in carving wood, and to work in all manner of artistic workmanship. and he has put in his heart the ability to teach, in him and aholiab the son of ahisamach, of the tribe of dan. he has filled them with skill to do all manner of work of the engraver and the designer and the tapestry maker, in blue, purple, and scarlet thread, and fine linen, and of the weaver--those who do every work and those who design artistic works. there would seem to be several main points to consider: 1. the artists were called (by name) for the work, and 2. they were annointed for the work (and these artists were the first people expressly identified as annointed for any task in the bible, btw). further, in that context (being called and annointed as artists) they were filled with 3. wisdom, 4. understanding, 5. knowledge (and these are different from each other) and 6. the desire to teach. this was all important enough that G-d said it twice. another thing i love is that after the artists were finished moses blessed them: (exodus 39.43) then moses looked over all the work, and indeed they had done it; as the Lord had commanded, just so they had done it. and moses blessed them. there's a lot we can learn from these passages if we take the time to unpack them, and consider the implications (theologically and practically).

techne -> RE: the calling of an artist... (3/24/2008 12:01:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: peanut2 What type of artist are you talking about? Art, drama, dance, music???? yes. [;)] i think the medium is irrelevant -- the principles remain the same. i think there are expectations of you as an artist regardless of medium. you need to be able to convey what you are trying to communicate i.e. you need to have the knowledge and skill to marry the form (the "vehicle" for communicating) and the content (what you are trying to say).

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