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Gas Prices Going Up!! - 3/24/2008 3:54:11 PM
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mapachito13
Posts: 946
Joined: 10/1/2007
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Heard on today's news that gas will reach $4 a gallon sooner than expected. I'm willing to wager that it will be closer to $4.50 by the time Memorial Day comes around!
The price of oil which has been hovering around $100 a barrel is a major contributor but what about the USA's refining capacity that consistently runs at 90+%. With no new refineries built since the 70's and none planned, will we have to import gasoline in greater quantities as well as oil?
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RE: Gas Prices Going Up!! - 3/24/2008 4:01:03 PM
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cog41
Posts: 567
Joined: 7/16/2006
From: tejas
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Some station's pumps automatically shut off at $75.00 even with credit card purchases.
Up and Up and Up! It's crazy!
But we will make it.
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Hook'em Horns! Roll Tide!
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RE: Gas Prices Going Up!! - 3/24/2008 4:18:54 PM
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stellaluna
Posts: 2717
Joined: 4/11/2005
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It's getting warmer. Instead of driving more, drive less. People should walk or ride bikes. They could use the exercise anyway.
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RE: Gas Prices Going Up!! - 3/24/2008 4:21:25 PM
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uncabeeil
Posts: 5656
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Joisey. Got a problem wit dat?
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quote:
ORIGINAL: stellaluna
It's getting warmer. Instead of driving more, drive less. People should walk or ride bikes. They could use the exercise anyway.
I'm sorry, but a 19 mile hike in the morning and another one in the evening wouldn't leave me a whole lot of time for working, or eating, or sleeping. I'm kinda partial to the eating and sleeping parts. 
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<-----He said it,not me!
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RE: Gas Prices Going Up!! - 3/24/2008 4:23:59 PM
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stamper_ben
Posts: 10920
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From: Lone Star State
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quote:
ORIGINAL: stellaluna
It's getting warmer. Instead of driving more, drive less. People should walk or ride bikes. They could use the exercise anyway.
At 90 degrees and 95% humidity and 27 miles to work I think I'll pay at the pump and continue to drive in the air conditioned truck.
But the sentiments expressed are all well and good....
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Dead Eye Dick Cheney
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RE: Gas Prices Going Up!! - 3/24/2008 4:28:48 PM
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McKate
Posts: 58
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We New Jerseyans don't even have to pump our own gas, but we pay lower prices than just about anyone in the country. Still, the prices are rather high. I'm almost happy I smashed up my car now. Taking the bus is so much cheaper.
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RE: Gas Prices Going Up!! - 3/24/2008 4:31:45 PM
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mapachito13
Posts: 946
Joined: 10/1/2007
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But what about a well thought out energy policy? Why can't this country get it's act together in regards to energy. We keep giving our money to the Saudis (who soon won't accept the greenback just the Euro). And they in turn give it out to terrorist groups. Maybe Marx was right about the capitalist and the rope.
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RE: Gas Prices Going Up!! - 3/24/2008 4:34:31 PM
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FurGodWurLivin
Posts: 981
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Kansas City, MO
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Thank you OPEC... Basically, they are little more than a cartel.
As for the US oil capacity. We haven't built many new refineries because we have environmental activists. Why do we not get rid of oil-burning power plants and build nuclear to reduce our consumption of oil? Because it makes too much sense. No, we are not being run by "big oil", but we are too dependent on oil. The problem is that we have exploding demand thanks to emerging economies in India and China, and we have shrinking exports thanks to OPEC reducing production. So the price of oil is artificially inflated, but not by Haliburton or Exxon-Mobile.
Adam
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RE: Gas Prices Going Up!! - 3/24/2008 4:37:11 PM
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McKate
Posts: 58
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quote:
ORIGINAL: mapachito13
But what about a well thought out energy policy? Why can't this country get it's act together in regards to energy. We keep giving our money to the Saudis (who soon won't accept the greenback just the Euro). And they in turn give it out to terrorist groups. Maybe Marx was right about the capitalist and the rope.
...And let's not forget about the Soviet-Afghan war in which we funded Al-Qaeda, thus creating our own enemy.
Being in bed with our enemies is nothing new to us.
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RE: Gas Prices Going Up!! - 3/24/2008 4:41:27 PM
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McKate
Posts: 58
Joined: 3/7/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: FurGodWurLivin
Thank you OPEC... Basically, they are little more than a cartel.
As for the US oil capacity. We haven't built many new refineries because we have environmental activists. Why do we not get rid of oil-burning power plants and build nuclear to reduce our consumption of oil? Because it makes too much sense. No, we are not being run by "big oil", but we are too dependent on oil. The problem is that we have exploding demand thanks to emerging economies in India and China, and we have shrinking exports thanks to OPEC reducing production. So the price of oil is artificially inflated, but not by Haliburton or Exxon-Mobile.
Adam
Building nuclear is certainly not clean. We're now trying to clean up after our nuclear power revolution in the fifties. What was the solution? Put all of the spent nuclear waste in containers in the middle of the desert. Great plan, right? Ever thought about what would happen if someone decided to fly a plane into a power plant? It wouldn't be pretty.
The true answer is development in solar power.
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RE: Gas Prices Going Up!! - 3/24/2008 4:48:36 PM
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mapachito13
Posts: 946
Joined: 10/1/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: McKate
quote:
ORIGINAL: mapachito13
But what about a well thought out energy policy? Why can't this country get it's act together in regards to energy. We keep giving our money to the Saudis (who soon won't accept the greenback just the Euro). And they in turn give it out to terrorist groups. Maybe Marx was right about the capitalist and the rope.
...And let's not forget about the Soviet-Afghan war in which we funded Al-Qaeda, thus creating our own enemy.
Being in bed with our enemies is nothing new to us.
That's right! Who was director of the CIA when we recruited Osama? And now his son has the job of tracking him down? That's why I'm losing my hair from scratching my head too much.
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RE: Gas Prices Going Up!! - 3/24/2008 4:52:17 PM
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mapachito13
Posts: 946
Joined: 10/1/2007
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: cow451
Electric is the way this should be addressed. Hybrids are overrated, ethanol is going to make corn more precious than copper. I firmly believe the technology to produce all-electric vehicles is here, but no company (that wants to) has enough capital to get mass production going, which would lower costs. 
How are we going to keep up with the increased demand that the cars will put on the grid. We haven't been building lots of new electric generating stations and they can't even keep up with our AC in the summer!
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RE: Gas Prices Going Up!! - 3/24/2008 5:29:24 PM
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blessedinnyc
Posts: 1076
Joined: 10/12/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: FurGodWurLivin
Thank you OPEC... Basically, they are little more than a cartel.
In the past five years, OPEC production has increased. This pushes the supply curve out, and as a result, the price is lower than it would be if it weren't for OPEC's production increases.
What's really gotten us is consumption. Voracious consumption from India, China, and the US has driven up oil prices significantly.
quote:
As for the US oil capacity. We haven't built many new refineries because we have environmental activists.
Actually refinery capacity has increased dramatically in the past five years, due to on-site expansion.
quote:
Why do we not get rid of oil-burning power plants and build nuclear to reduce our consumption of oil? Because it makes too much sense.
Because it takes $2.5 Billion and seven years of design, construction, and safety testing to build a safe nuclear power plant. Sure, we can do things like the USSR did them, but when you have a design as ill-conceived and cheap as the RMBK, you run into problems (Chernobyl was an RMBK.)
The concrete containment dome- which reduces the risk of a disaster like Chernobyl by a factor of roughly 100 (reducing the risk of an above-ground breach of containment at a nuclear reactor from roughly 1 in 500 reactor years to closer to 1 in 50,000) used to take about 18 months alone to build back in the '70s and '80s. GE and Westinghouse claim their designs allow for reduced construction times, but still, building a nuclear reactor isn't simple.
Also, last I checked, 17 reactors were under early site approval. This number has likely gone up significantly; the NRC expects along the lines of another 70-80 early site approvals to be filed by 2020.
quote:
No, we are not being run by "big oil", but we are too dependent on oil. The problem is that we have exploding demand thanks to emerging economies in India and China, and we have shrinking exports thanks to OPEC reducing production.
The problem is also that we have a market that can't see more than three years into the future. Any utility that decides to build a nuclear plant today has to take accounting losses- losses that go out on the 10Q's and 10Ks- for five to ten years before they see a dime out of the plant. In the meantime, the foolish CEO who approved the project is likely long-gone.
quote:
So the price of oil is artificially inflated, but not by Haliburton or Exxon-Mobile.
Not necessarily true. This comes from someone who owns oil stock and follows the oil and energy industry very carefully.
Confidential documents from the API, for example, made it to mainstream news sources about two years ago detailing how the API had worked to reduce refining capacity during the '80s and '90s. During that time, there was a huge glut of oil capacity, and as a result, the crack spread (think of it as the difference in cost between a gallon of crude oil and a gallon of 87-unleaded gasoline) widened significantly between 2000 and 2005.
When Katrina hit, that just exacerbated the problem. However, in the wake of Katrina, new capacity has come online at existing refineries in the US. Additionally, refineries worldwide are also manufacturing more gasoline that can be used in the US.
Another interesting fact is that Chevron currently holds the patent to a technology that can extend battery life in Hybrids from ~20 miles of gas-free driving to ~40 miles. I should know, because I was a Chevron shareholder for two years! Both Honda and Toyota made offers to license or buy the patent, but Chevron was interested in sitting on it.
So, while in most cases, oil companies haven't worked to increase demand or reduce supply, it's not totally fair to say that Big Oil is a great wonderful institution that demonstrates how capitalism brings about the greater good in the oil markets. In all honesty, the major oils are businesses interested in maximizing profits. If reducing supply in a way they could get away with would be a way of increasing profits, most oil majors would do so in a heartbeat. Indeed, when it comes to the refining industry, many refiners have done just that.
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RE: Gas Prices Going Up!! - 3/24/2008 6:22:02 PM
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saraimay75
Posts: 6704
Joined: 5/11/2005
From: Wherever God plants me.
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It was predicted (a couple of weeks ago) that gas in Hawaii would reach $4.00 by summer but it is already at $4.00 on Maui.
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RE: Gas Prices Going Up!! - 3/24/2008 6:31:27 PM
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saraimay75
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