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RE: Bad idea to pray together? - 3/26/2008 7:56:53 PM
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Cloak
Posts: 1987
Joined: 1/4/2008
From: Canada
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I don't think it's Cloud's book since I've had this book and purchased it about 4 years ago, even tho I have not read the entire book.
Yes, to me prayers soften my heart, heal it and help me forgive the worst enemy I've met.
I believe the trick here is when you're dating someone, he or she is a potential partner and thus thinking romantically of him is a possibility whether you pray or not. Also you are quite vulnerable to fall in love with him.
I remember when I purchased Henry's book I was dating an unbelieving guy who invited me out to restaurant. When we arrived there he asked me to say grace when our dinner was served and before start eating to which I did even tho I did shyly, but it did not lead to any intimacy between both of us.
The bottom line is WHERE you perform your prayers: outside not inside a closed place - house or apartment where temptation is easy and you become so vulnerable.
I can't think of anything Wiser more Vigilant than praying and asking Him what He thinks about your relationship. My prayers with this guy saved my life. I am pretty sure if I were not praying and trusting God, I would have been a very miserable married woman.
Prayers have always SAVED my life - be it a dating scenario or otherwise scenarios!
Just don't pray indoors or even meet each other indoors! The Bible says that we are to FLEE from the temptation of S.
_____________________________
And My God shall meet ALL Your Needs according to His glorious riches in Christ Jesus. (Philippians 4: 19)
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RE: Bad idea to pray together? - 3/26/2008 8:43:29 PM
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Szaftoo
Posts: 938
Joined: 4/13/2005
From: So. Calif.
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Liveloved
quote:
That was not the case with me and my husband while dating but it could happen, however, it could also happen with anyone we pray with.
Yes, we do make ourselves vulnerable if/when we pray honestly. And part of that 'hurt' that can occur, when it takes place in a relationship with people of the opposite sex, is the leading into greater intimacy than should take place.
I know it 'sounds' all wrong to discourage prayer. But I ask you, if you are married, would you pray about intimate things with a person of the opposite sex who is also married? (I'm talking about on a regular basis, alone.) I would not. I think it would be making myself and him vulnerable and putting us in a position that could lead to wrong behavior.
(And don't use someone who you couldn't see yourself sexually involved with as your example---choose a good looking, attractive person of the opposite sex.)
I would not go out to dinner on a regular basis with another man. This is what we are talking about.
I appreciate your honest reply and I agree with you. I am married and have never prayed with another man without my husband being present. On those occasions when we are asked to pray for family or friends, we both go if it is someone of the opposite sex.
I also do not go out with other men unless my husband is with me. That includes men who have been friends for years. It's just not a good idea and something we feel pretty strongly about.
I admire your convictions.
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RE: Bad idea to pray together? - 3/26/2008 11:34:03 PM
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Striving2BVirtuous
Posts: 30
Joined: 3/15/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Liveloved
I think we are misunderstanding the concern here. When someone said that prayer is as intimate as sex, what they were talking about is an openness and transparency, a revealing of self, that is so intimate that it can lead to other kinds of intimacy such as physical, sexual intimacy.
This is no different than discussions that can take place in the workplace. Men and women get into personal discussions about their lives and that, too, can lead to a physical, sexual relationship that is sinful.
I think we are just talking about barriers that need to be in place in relationships so that we do not go beyond the bounds of what God desires. And, yes, prayer that is that personal and transparent CAN lead to intimacy that is NOT appropriate for people.
I guess I am one of the few who agrees with what you have read and would encourage you to heed their advice. 
Well I have to be honest and share my opinion everybody. There are some VERY manipulative men in this world. Idealy, NO, a Christian man (or woman for that matter) should take advantage of prayer in that way. But I speak from experience, when I say that I once dated a guy who cheated a few times. And I would ask him how and why he allowed himself to end up in situations like that. He said "well, we were just reading the Bible and praying together and it just happened." And I have also had a girlfriend who met a guy who claimed to be deeply involved in the ministry. And she told me that he did the same thing to her....reading the Bible and prayed together and they ended up sleeping together that same evening.
Now I will say this, I don't think PRAYER in itself leads to sexual intimacy, but what DOES is when you put two individuals together who are not strong (or are still babes) in their walk in Christ. There are many IMPOSTERS who use prayer as a tool to get close to women. (and children for that matter....but we won't go there tonight). And I know several of you are probably saying that we shouldn't have to worry about those things if we are dating other Christians are if we are in a "equally yoked situation", but the truth of the matter is, Christians are still held hostage by fleshy desires...bottom line.
And I do agree that if a couple does pray together, that prayer should be focused on asking what HIS will is in the relationship/situation. I agree that it is a very good idea to pray ALONE in regards to things that we as individuals are still struggling with. (And keep in mind that I feel this way as far as being in the dating world, NOT for married couples.) Often times we as women in the dating world, run into some men who would take advantage of our weaknesses and things that we are still struggling with. Some men often take this and use it to their advantage. I feel that being selective in the CONTENT of prayer AS WELL AS the location in which prayer takes place, is very instrumental in guarding your heart and setting boundaries in a HEALTHY way.
Thoughts? I think this could open the doors for a great discussion here.....
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RE: Bad idea to pray together? - 3/26/2008 11:53:01 PM
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sunluvingirl
Posts: 849
Joined: 6/11/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Striving2BVirtuous
I read a couple of Christian dating books over the weekend. One of the books advised AGAINST praying together during the "dating" phase. The reasoning was that praying together is almost considered just as intimate as sex. And that it makes it a little easier to cross the boundaries emotionally and end up being physically intimate. I wanted to get everybody's take on this? Opinions?
That is ridiculous!!
_____________________________
"May my words and my thoughts be acceptable to You, O Lord, my refuge & my redeemer!"
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RE: Bad idea to pray together? - 3/27/2008 3:38:19 AM
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RatherDashing
Posts: 7510
Joined: 6/5/2006
From: Shimmyland.
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quote:
ORIGINAL: john_is_free
Pray is the mightest of weapons we have in this world. We are often told to pray unceasing, for each other, in all circumstances. I not think of a better way to maintain any type of relationship except through prayer.
Amen, John.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Striving2BVirtuous
I read a couple of Christian dating books over the weekend. One of the books advised AGAINST praying together during the "dating" phase.
I highly disagree with this.
My relationship solely began on the wonders of prayer, and faith in it. And since that time, it continually increases the relationship. My prayers have been incredibly more passionate whenever I'm praying for her, and God is completely in them.
I've seen God do wonderful things through both of us. I've seen her physically/emotionally/spiritually touched most when I cry out to Him, praying a blessing over her.
_____________________________
Some people say matter always existed. Great, I say God always existed.
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RE: Bad idea to pray together? - 3/27/2008 5:39:01 PM
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TMeeks
Posts: 1392
Joined: 1/27/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Striving2BVirtuous
I read a couple of Christian dating books over the weekend. One of the books advised AGAINST praying together during the "dating" phase. The reasoning was that praying together is almost considered just as intimate as sex. And that it makes it a little easier to cross the boundaries emotionally and end up being physically intimate. I wanted to get everybody's take on this? Opinions?
I agree, for sound biological reasons, with what this book has to say... with some caveats.
Let's take the 20 second rule for hugging in church as an example. The way our brains are constructed is that holding a person for longer than 20 seconds sends different messages and is store differently than a short perfunctory hug. Many an affair in the congregation was started by an inappropriately long hug.
So, too, the TYPE of prayer that is engaged in becomes very important in determining whether it encourages boundary pushing or not. A short, perfunctory prayer such as, "Lord, Keep us safe and in Your will on this date" is probably NOT likely to cause problems. But, if the prayers are extended and emotional then the brain is bound to interpret the input it is recieving in a MUCH different way and a certain level of emotional bonding, beyond the level that might be appropriate for dating, may take place.
When I was going to the Bible college, many years ago, we were STRONGLY urged not to pray extensively together as couples because the school had had problems in this area in previous years.
Most people have NO idea how our thought processes are formed and how the brain interprets various forms of intimacy like emotional praying. I'm inclined to think that most couples, when praying for an extended amount of time, would hold hands. I have no idea how the brain might interpret the intimacy of hand holding along with the intimacy of fervent, emotional prayer for each other. But, I'd certainly rather a young couple just dating err on the side of caution than to find themselves going beyond appropriate boundaries.
So, my vote is that it is VERY wise advice.
_____________________________
Galatians 6:7 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. 8 The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.
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RE: Bad idea to pray together? - 3/27/2008 5:54:21 PM
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TMeeks
Posts: 1392
Joined: 1/27/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: RatherDashing
quote:
ORIGINAL: john_is_free
Pray is the mightest of weapons we have in this world. We are often told to pray unceasing, for each other, in all circumstances. I not think of a better way to maintain any type of relationship except through prayer.
Amen, John.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Striving2BVirtuous
I read a couple of Christian dating books over the weekend. One of the books advised AGAINST praying together during the "dating" phase.
I highly disagree with this.
My relationship solely began on the wonders of prayer, and faith in it. And since that time, it continually increases the relationship. My prayers have been incredibly more passionate whenever I'm praying for her, and God is completely in them.
I've seen God do wonderful things through both of us. I've seen her physically/emotionally/spiritually touched most when I cry out to Him, praying a blessing over her.
Sorry. But, the very words that you use to describe your prayers, probably points out the wisdom of the article.
Step back with me a bit on this...
Does she have to be there for God to know who you are praying for? No.
Does she have to be there for your prayes to be effective. No.
Does she have to be present for you to pray a blessing over her? No.
Then WHY do these prayes have to done TOGETHER? Why do you choose to do it this way?
I'm going to make a guess that it has an emotional effect on her and positively affects your bonding. I'm going to postulate that there is something about having her present, and hearing your prayers, that is especially emotionally satisfying. If you are near a wedding date, then fine. But, if you are merely DATING. Then there could be trouble ahead for one or both of you.
I'm sure you mean well. But, I see some danger signs in the very words that you've used to describe your prayers. This, it appears to me, is exactly what the author of the book was talking about.
quote:
My relationship solely began on the wonders of prayer, and faith in it.
I'm not buying that one either! 
I'm 64, taught school, went to college, taught teens and young singles. I know why guys date girls and it ain't usually for prayer partners.
< Message edited by TMeeks -- 3/27/2008 6:04:58 PM >
_____________________________
Galatians 6:7 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. 8 The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.
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RE: Bad idea to pray together? - 3/27/2008 6:03:02 PM
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TMeeks
Posts: 1392
Joined: 1/27/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Striving2BVirtuous
quote:
ORIGINAL: Liveloved
I think we are misunderstanding the concern here. When someone said that prayer is as intimate as sex, what they were talking about is an openness and transparency, a revealing of self, that is so intimate that it can lead to other kinds of intimacy such as physical, sexual intimacy.
This is no different than discussions that can take place in the workplace. Men and women get into personal discussions about their lives and that, too, can lead to a physical, sexual relationship that is sinful.
I think we are just talking about barriers that need to be in place in relationships so that we do not go beyond the bounds of what God desires. And, yes, prayer that is that personal and transparent CAN lead to intimacy that is NOT appropriate for people.
I guess I am one of the few who agrees with what you have read and would encourage you to heed their advice.
Well I have to be honest and share my opinion everybody. There are some VERY manipulative men in this world. Idealy, NO, a Christian man (or woman for that matter) should take advantage of prayer in that way. But I speak from experience, when I say that I once dated a guy who cheated a few times. And I would ask him how and why he allowed himself to end up in situations like that. He said "well, we were just reading the Bible and praying together and it just happened." And I have also had a girlfriend who met a guy who claimed to be deeply involved in the ministry. And she told me that he did the same thing to her....reading the Bible and prayed together and they ended up sleeping together that same evening.
Now I will say this, I don't think PRAYER in itself leads to sexual intimacy, but what DOES is when you put two individuals together who are not strong (or are still babes) in their walk in Christ. There are many IMPOSTERS who use prayer as a tool to get close to women. (and children for that matter....but we won't go there tonight). And I know several of you are probably saying that we shouldn't have to worry about those things if we are dating other Christians are if we are in a "equally yoked situation", but the truth of the matter is, Christians are still held hostage by fleshy desires...bottom line.
And I do agree that if a couple does pray together, that prayer should be focused on asking what HIS will is in the relationship/situation. I agree that it is a very good idea to pray ALONE in regards to things that we as individuals are still struggling with. (And keep in mind that I feel this way as far as being in the dating world, NOT for married couples.) Often times we as women in the dating world, run into some men who would take advantage of our weaknesses and things that we are still struggling with. Some men often take this and use it to their advantage. I feel that being selective in the CONTENT of prayer AS WELL AS the location in which prayer takes place, is very instrumental in guarding your heart and setting boundaries in a HEALTHY way.
Thoughts? I think this could open the doors for a great discussion here.....
Take serious notice of BOTH of these previous posts. Thank you both for these great observations.
< Message edited by TMeeks -- 3/27/2008 6:10:12 PM >
_____________________________
Galatians 6:7 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. 8 The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.
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RE: Bad idea to pray together? - 3/28/2008 12:10:34 AM
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Al_A
Posts: 1
Joined: 3/27/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
And I will also mention that the chapter had the following quote:
"A couple that PRAYS together LAYS together"
Well first thing I would do is #1 Stop reading that book, because I find that quote disgusting. My wife and I prayed together many times while dating and the Lord saw too it that we were brought together in Holy Matrimony. 43 YEARS to be exact!! It is better to listen to what He has to say than to try to find our own reasons why we should't do anything. I for one, would not read that book!! Show me a Bible quote but please no self interpretations!!
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RE: Bad idea to pray together? - 3/28/2008 9:27:04 AM
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FoxInSox
Posts: 1364
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: dallas
Status: offline
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omigosh...they prays/lays quote was in the book? that's really funny
_____________________________
~ formerly infinitepiphany ~
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RE: Bad idea to pray together? - 3/28/2008 11:15:44 AM
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SD456
Posts: 1502
Joined: 8/6/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: mrsdash
i have heard it recommended, not praying with someone you're dating, but it wasn't about increasing the temptation of physical intimacy it was about fostering premature emotional intimacy. for a season dating needs to be about getting to know one another. you might realize after a time that a perfectly good dating mate would not be the right life long mate. two people praying together alone (two DATING people) increases the emotional and even spritual bonding, possibly masking the, getting to know you before i'm extremely attached and don't want to let go, feelings.
it doesn't mean you don't pray in a group with that person present etc.
I've heard it spoken of that way, also. I think there is some truth to that. Praying does make a spiritual connection with someone - and I would think if you are dating that person then an emotional connection would be made deeper. I don't think it leads to sex, but it could lead to the attachments growing so strong that you don't want to 'let go' after you get to known them and discover they aren't right for you.
But when the courtship is serious and you 'know' that this is the person you are to marry, then by all means go ahead and pray together because then you want the emotional bonding to grow deeper.
quote:
A short, perfunctory prayer such as, "Lord, Keep us safe and in Your will on this date" is probably NOT likely to cause problems. But, if the prayers are extended and emotional then the brain is bound to interpret the input it is recieving in a MUCH different way and a certain level of emotional bonding, beyond the level that might be appropriate for dating, may take place.
I agree. There are prayers and then there are prayers. There should be healthy boundaries in the dating stage.
quote:
I'm going to make a guess that it has an emotional effect on her and positively affects your bonding. I'm going to postulate that there is something about having her present, and hearing your prayers, that is especially emotionally satisfying.
I was thinking of that exact same thing when I read that guys prayers over his girlfriend.
< Message edited by SD456 -- 3/28/2008 11:29:40 AM >
_____________________________
MY BLOG
http://reflectionsdeep.blogspot.com
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RE: Bad idea to pray together? - 3/28/2008 11:56:27 AM
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shadowspring
Posts: 1139
Joined: 5/27/2006
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quote:
He said "well, we were just reading the Bible and praying together and it just happened."
What a LIE!!!!! It did not "just happen"!
The Word of God is clear, we sin when we are drawn away by our own lust and enticed. LUST is the problem, not prayer, not reading the Bible-LUST!
Again I must emphasize, the problem is not prayer or reading the Word together, the problem is LUST. The problem is not hugging in church. Hugs do not cause adultery. Adulterous hearts result in adultery.
That's what needs to be addressed- the heart.
Your book should be counseling against wicked thoughts and imaginations, not against prayer and Bible study.
_____________________________
"All that is gold does not glitter, not all those who wander are lost..." -J. R. R. Tolkien
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RE: Bad idea to pray together? - 3/28/2008 3:21:25 PM
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1love1God1way
Posts: 1733
Joined: 5/16/2005
Status: online
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Must have been reading Songs of Solomon.
_____________________________
-Ben-
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RE: Bad idea to pray together? - 3/28/2008 4:01:11 PM
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sunluvingirl
Posts: 849
Joined: 6/11/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: shadowspring
quote:
He said "well, we were just reading the Bible and praying together and it just happened."
What a LIE!!!!! It did not "just happen"!
The Word of God is clear, we sin when we are drawn away by our own lust and enticed. LUST is the problem, not prayer, not reading the Bible-LUST!
Again I must emphasize, the problem is not prayer or reading the Word together, the problem is LUST. The problem is not hugging in church. Hugs do not cause adultery. Adulterous hearts result in adultery.
That's what needs to be addressed- the heart.
Your book should be counseling against wicked thoughts and imaginations, not against prayer and Bible study.
AMEN!!! Well said!!
_____________________________
"May my words and my thoughts be acceptable to You, O Lord, my refuge & my redeemer!"
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RE: Bad idea to pray together? - 3/28/2008 4:14:32 PM
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RatherDashing
Posts: 7510
Joined: 6/5/2006
From: Shimmyland.
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SD456
I was thinking of that exact same thing when I read that guys prayers over his girlfriend.
Um, if that was in reference to me, go read my previous post. There's no physical presence.
_____________________________
Some people say matter always existed. Great, I say God always existed.
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RE: Bad idea to pray together? - 3/28/2008 7:03:14 PM
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OLEEguacamole
Posts: 1189
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: shadowspring
quote:
He said "well, we were just reading the Bible and praying together and it just happened."
What a LIE!!!!! It did not "just happen"!
The Word of God is clear, we sin when we are drawn away by our own lust and enticed. LUST is the problem, not prayer, not reading the Bible-LUST!
Again I must emphasize, the problem is not prayer or reading the Word together, the problem is LUST. The problem is not hugging in church. Hugs do not cause adultery. Adulterous hearts result in adultery.
That's what needs to be addressed- the heart.
Your book should be counseling against wicked thoughts and imaginations, not against prayer and Bible study.
we're also supposed to FLEE from temptation. a good hearted person can fall. it's not a good idea to sit in a closet with a cheeseburger when you're fasting. proximity and bonding activities can stir up appetites. love and lust can be awakened prematurely. before its time. caution and wisdom are called for.
_____________________________
there's life in a pit.
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RE: Bad idea to pray together? - 3/28/2008 8:08:55 PM
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TMeeks
Posts: 1392
Joined: 1/27/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: RatherDashing
Would you people please stop taking this awesome, mighty thing we have in prayer and turning into an idea that leads to sex and other impurities?
Sheesh.
We aren't taking prayer and turning it into an idea that leads to sex and other impurities. Prayer, in an of itself IS awesome. What we are saying is that there is a right time and a right place for prayer. And, two kids, alone, in an intimate setting, praying is not the right time nor the right place. While you say that most of your praying is via the telephone, I'm pretty sure that there are times when you and your girl friend are alone and are in a intimate setting when you pray. The phone doesn't separate you forever.
Age can bring with it experience and experience can bring with it wisdom and caution. I have been a youth pastor and an interim pastor and have worked with young people my whole life. I'm not trying to make your life miserable and I would NEVER caution a young single man and a young single woman to be careful about praying together if there was no cause at all for caution.
There is. I don't expect you to see that on the side of the wall you are on. But, I've seen BOTH sides of the wall and I know what I'm talking about.
If you are going to be a youth minister, you are going to have to understand boundaries in ways that you have never even dreamed. You will be tested in ways you haven't even begun to consider. So, I hold you to a much higher standard because the position to which you aspire demands that much higher standard. And, if you don't think that Satan is going to come at you from every angle... including using good things. like prayer, to lead you in wrong directions then you may find out the hard way.
People can do what they want. But, nobody ever got into trouble erring on the side of caution.
_____________________________
Galatians 6:7 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. 8 The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.
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