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csl7037 -> Daughter wrongly accused (3/24/2008 5:50:57 PM)

Hi, everyone. I ued to be on crosswalk a lot but it's been quite a while; I couldn't even figure out my old username and password so this is brand new. I'm in a dilemma and getting more frusrated by the minute and not sure whether to die on this hill or just deal with it.

My kids are at a small private Baptist school that I reall (mostly) love. I'm very very involved - I do everything, for crying out loud! We don't go to that church - six days/week would be one too many. This is not nearly as big an issue as the school in a post above trying to force a mom to put her kid on medication. But it's what's keeping me up at night.

On Thursday, before the long weekend, my 3rd grader was accused of cheating on a spelling test. They number their paper 1 - 24 in homeroom first thing in the morning and then take that paper with them a couple hours later to another room that is spelling. According to my daughter, when she numbered the paper, she wrote #24 and it's definition. They're always in order; she knew it was #24 so she just wrote it when she numbered the paper. When she got to the spelling test, a few words into the test, the teacher noticed that one already written in. With no discussion or questions asked, she took he paper, gave her a zero, and proceeded with the test for the other kids with my kid just sitting there (horrified and trying not to cry). Although I was there most of the day for Easter parties, I was told about this in passing in carline.

I have several issues:

* There was no discussion with either my daughter or myself either before or after the knee-jerk (IMO) decision to destroy her grade for the 9-weeks.

* There was no attempt to either find out her side of the story or to even explain to her why she can't write the words in early and why she was going to get a zero.

* I know full well if the same thing had happened with another child (like any one of the half dozen teachers' kids in the class, it would've been handled MUCH differently!

* I get calls or emails about every little thing my daughter does! She's not exactly a conformist. If she turns the lights off in the bathroom, sticks a pencil up her nose, or any other ridicuous thing she's been known to do, I get an email in the middle of the day if not a phone call. When something of real importance, or at least something I might want to be in on happens, I get an "oh, by the way".

Whether or not I think it warranted a zero on the test is not important - that's not really my call. I just think it warranted some discussion! I'm really upset at the way it was handled and I think my daughter was disciplined out of frustration and in a reactionary way rather than in a constructive or even fair way. I emailed this teacher and the homeroom teacher later Thursday evening some of my frustrations but I was avoided when I was there today picking up my son. I guess I just want to be told "we should've called you" and I'd really love someone to have a conversation with my daughter instead of her left wondering! I'd like to think she's not now labelled and branded a cheater forever with no opportunity to defend herself. Uuugh.

I know to handle something like this in a Biblical way, I am going to need to go to these teachers. I was just really hoping someone else might make a first step today. And I'm afraid of having a conversation in which I'm likely to go to far (like the remark about the other teachers' kids). And I'm afraid to say or do something that's only going to make her life rougher. As it is, I got a call this morning that she was "sick" and I had to go get her. She wont really talk to me about whether she's upset or embarassed or what.

How much of an issue would you make of a situation like this? I'd love for her not to have a zero on the second test of the 9-weeks but I mostly just want some consideration and an admission that it should've been handled differently. Should I just let it go, though?



garsyt -> RE: Daughter wrongly accused (3/24/2008 6:07:49 PM)

I do think you and your dd need to meet with the teacher and at least get an explination as to WHY her test was removed and why she received a zero. Your dd deserves that much of an explanation from the teacher.

Quite honestly your dd sounds a LOT like my third grade ds! His most difficult times are in Art, music and gym - things that are a bit less structured. Thankfully he has a great teacher this year that understands that even though he may appear not to be paying attention he is always listening. The other teachers have yet to figure that out. Anyway!

If you are afraid of going to far - write yourself out a script or a list of questions and comments and STICK TO THE LIST REGARDLESS! Tell them from the get-go that you just want a few questions answered and a specific explanation.

I have to run to a scout meeting but will check back later!

Blessings,

Garsy



soukz8696 -> RE: Daughter wrongly accused (3/24/2008 6:40:17 PM)

I am having the same issues with my dd in 2nd grade with her math teacher. Everything little thing she does she gets in trouble. I would go to her teacher and ask for them to tell you why they reacted the way they did. They should have really talked to her after the test was over and explained it to her about why she was receiving a zero for the test.

But in defense of the teacher she was in the middle of giving a test and really couldnt stop what she was doing at the time. But as I said she should have been talked to after the test.

The most important thing really though is making your daughter feel better so she can go to school without feeling embarassed or upset. Maybe you should ask her what would make her feel better.



csl7037 -> RE: Daughter wrongly accused (3/24/2008 7:23:29 PM)

Thanks Garsy and Michelle. While I was fixing dinner, I realized that something I said in my email probably left them thinking I was OK or resigned to things - I said I understand what happened after getting the story from her (how it happened, the misunderstanding) and I'm guessing they think I meant I understood the consequence. I do need to go in tomorrow, I guess. For what it's worth, I need to tell her I don't agree with the zero but I am primarily bothered that there wasn't any discussion about it. It probably wont do any good but I can't leave this to fester until my son gets into her class in two years!

I know hind sight is 20/20 (which is why I had hoped they might come to me today to say they should'v handled it differently) but I wish she had just watched her during the rest of the test - she obviously wasn't copying off of someone or something. Then call her aside later to discuss what she saw, ask for her explanation, and then make a decision. If that had happened, even if she ended up with the zero, I'd be able to accept it. None of that happened.

I know teachers are human but I can't stomach my kid being labelled one of the "bad" ones who they only expect bad things from - kids pick up on that!!! She's a frustrating, difficult child; no one knows better than me. Her teacher last year handled her beautifully and actually appreciated her for her. I guess I can't expect that all the time.



OneOfHisJewels -> RE: Daughter wrongly accused (3/24/2008 7:25:14 PM)

That sounds like the kind of things that happened to me as a kid. More later.



stellaluna -> RE: Daughter wrongly accused (3/24/2008 8:37:51 PM)

I don't understand why that would be considered cheating anyway.

First of all, it's asinine to always have the words on the test in the same order that they're given for study. I'm surprised this sort of thing doesn't happen all the time, with a kid getting one word and number stuck in their head and moving ahead to write it down.

Second of all, all the teacher had to say was "please don't work ahead." It kind of sounds like the teacher was just being spiteful because the kid knows that the words are always going to be in order, which is laziness on the part of the teacher.

Third, why would you number a paper in one class and then take it to another for the test? That's stupid, too. They can write the number as they're given the word to spell. A shocking suggestion, I know. [8|]

So anyway, if I were you I'd give the teacher a piece of my mind. (It's probably good that it's you and not me. [:D])



csl7037 -> RE: Daughter wrongly accused (3/24/2008 9:13:27 PM)

I've thought of all of that too, Stella. With my daughter, predictability is a sure way to lose her. If she knows (or thinks she knows) what's coming next, she'll check out on you and her mind's out the window. That's a huge problem for her in school.

Spiteful, I'm not sure but I'm quite certain she was already frustrated with my child and, like I said, if it had been someone else I think the reaction would've been very different.

And I didn't know till this happened that they numbered the paper earlier like that. It's silly. They have "morning responsibilities", thing they have to do before the bell or they get a "behavior mark" and this is one of them. If the numbering the paper really saves so much class time that they have to do it early, the teacher could photocopy a page with 1-24 on it. I'd volunteer to come in every Friday morning and copy it for her! If they're always the same and she's studied the words that evening and on the way to school, it's got to be torture to number the paper and be thinking all the way down what the words are and not write anything in. We're always rushing her (she's a pokey kid); finally she finds an opportunity to save time and look what happens, LOL! ...Trying to find humor in it...not working.



danas_mom -> RE: Daughter wrongly accused (3/24/2008 9:46:24 PM)

Well I'm not one to make waves, but something like this I would have to send a note or an email or something - UNLESS the rules about not starting in advance have been made crystal clear. Kids don't always think the same way we do, you know? What is common sense to us doesn't even occur to them.

You can question the situation without being overly confrontational. Something like "After speaking with DD some more, I'm concerned about the spelling test situation. She did not realize it would be considered cheating to fill in the definition in advance since the students know ahead of time what order the words are to be given in and they are supposed to number their papers in advance. To DD, filling in the part that she already knew was just a continuation of that and she did not realize she was doing something wrong. I can understand a lesser grade on the paper but really feel that she should have been allowed to complete the test and receive partial credit."

Gah. Good luck. It's no fun to try to determine when you need to step in and when to let them "take" their punishment.



stampinlady -> RE: Daughter wrongly accused (3/25/2008 11:26:46 AM)

quote:

Well I'm not one to make waves, but something like this I would have to send a note or an email or something - UNLESS the rules about not starting in advance have been made crystal clear. Kids don't always think the same way we do, you know? What is common sense to us doesn't even occur to them.


I agree. If she knew this was wrong then she needs to accept the consequences, BUT if this teacher didn't make it clear then the teacher needs to appologize to your dd. I'll have to ask dd if she's ever done that because I can see her doing it.



csl7037 -> RE: Daughter wrongly accused (3/25/2008 11:57:23 AM)

DD actually told me that she's done the same thing (written a word or two in when she numbered the paper) lots of times!

I've got an appointment to talk to the spelling teacher and homeroom teacher Thursday after school.



danas_mom -> RE: Daughter wrongly accused (3/25/2008 12:51:03 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: csl7037

DD actually told me that she's done the same thing (written a word or two in when she numbered the paper) lots of times!

I've got an appointment to talk to the spelling teacher and homeroom teacher Thursday after school.


So she's done it before, but the teacher never noticed so she never got in trouble for it? Poor thing, she must be so confused. My third grade year was exactly like that, we had a horrible teacher who expected us to read minds and know exactly what she expected of us on any given day even if it was the opposite of what she wanted us to do the day before. I was in so much trouble the first several weeks of school and I never really understood why. My mom finally had to go up to the school to have a talk with the principal about her and she backed off then, or I might have never made it through the year.

Good luck Thursday!!! Be polite, but authoritative. If you don't stick up for your kids, nobody will. And even if nothing much really changes, your kids will remember that you tried. Keep that in mind.



OneOfHisJewels -> RE: Daughter wrongly accused (3/25/2008 1:14:45 PM)

quote:

o she's done it before, but the teacher never noticed so she never got in trouble for it? Poor thing, she must be so confused. My third grade year was exactly like that, we had a horrible teacher who expected us to read minds and know exactly what she expected of us on any given day even if it was the opposite of what she wanted us to do the day before. I was in so much trouble the first several weeks of school and I never really understood why. My mom finally had to go up to the school to have a talk with the principal about her and she backed off then, or I might have never made it through the year.



I had a boss like that once!



coolfamily6 -> RE: Daughter wrongly accused (3/25/2008 7:59:09 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: stellaluna

I don't understand why that would be considered cheating anyway.



I understand that your daughter was not cheating but I also see the teacher's side. I work at a school and hear all kinds of things by way of explaination. Anyway, how does the teacher KNOW that she did not write this out from the book earlier in the day? Only her word and I understand your mom heart because if my son did the same thing I would 100% believe him. But in a classroom all things must be equal and it is not right for a child to prewrite the answers to a test because there is NO WAY for the teacher to know if it was copied from the book or from memory.

I will be the dissenting voice. I would explain this to my child and tell him/her why it was wrong (because in my opinion it was) and let them deal with the consequences of disobeying the teacher's directions. That is what it comes down to not that she was cheating but that she did not follow directions which lead to her being accused of or thought to be cheating. It would be a life lesson in our home. One test is not going to ruin her grades.



csl7037 -> RE: Daughter wrongly accused (3/25/2008 8:23:41 PM)

A zero on one out of 8 spelling tests (max) in a 9-weeks is pretty much going to trash her grade but if it has to be, it has to be. I really need to know, at this point, if this has ever happened with the same consequences. If there had been a conversation with her about it or at least with me I'd probably have been OK. I feel like I got half the story and just fear that they're operating out of frustration at this point. A friend of mine pointed out to me that, if that's the case, the week of SAT testing and then Spring Break coming up might be a nice break for everyone. I am gradually calming down and mostly (at this point) want to make the point that it would've been infinitely easier on all of us if we'd talked about this when it happened instead of a miserable week later. I'm trying to be objective.

Thanks everyone!!



MrsTracy72 -> RE: Daughter wrongly accused (3/25/2008 9:01:23 PM)

Ok, I don't think this is going to go over too well, but that happened to my daughter in math just a few weeks ago. What she did was get her paper, and then she saw that she knew an answer and wrote it in before the teacher said go.

First, have the rules been explained to the class in the beginning of the year?

Second, how long has your daughter been taking spelling tests? I know that my 1st grader knows she cannot work ahead.

Third, I do agree that the words are given in the same order that they were in the book, but the teacher runs the class.

Fourth, have you asked the school why they contact you about the stupid things, but not things that matter?

Who told you about this? You said that it was said in passing. Was it another parent or was it the teacher? Are you hearing things third hand? If so, you might not have the full story. When my son was in second grade, I was told all kinds of things that his teacher had done to him but when I took my son with me and approached her, it was a different story and my son admitted that he didnt' tell the entire truth.

I do think that the teacher should have let her finish the test and then take her aside and tell her why she was going to get a zero and not do that in front of the class. But as for your daughter writing a word she already knew on a test before it was given, I guess that my view is a little different. I think that after all of the tests she has taken, her class was given guidlines to follow and she knew what she did was wrong.

As for the grade, the teacher does have every right to give her that zero, but your daughter should have been talked to and at the very least you should have gotten a note. I would be livid if a teacher treated my child like that. But as for the grade, your child didn't follow the rules and was caught this time.

I don't mean to sound harsh because I feel bad. I was in a school where it seemed that my child was picked on all the time, and like you, I was so involved in that school, I sometimes spent entire weekends at the school.

I would go in to talk to the teacher and ask if the class was told that it wasn't allowed. Then I would ask why she didn't talk to your daughter about it. But if she didn't talk to your daughter, then how do you know that is why the paper was taken from her? Chances are you may hear a different story.

And then while I was there, I would ask why you are e:mailed and called for the little things, but not the big things like this. If it turns out that those rules were not explained EVER, then I would tell the teacher, that I would expect her to explain the rules, and let your daughter re take the test since she might not have known.



TMeeks -> RE: Daughter wrongly accused (3/25/2008 10:10:22 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: coolfamily6
I understand that your daughter was not cheating but I also see the teacher's side. I work at a school and hear all kinds of things by way of explaination. Anyway, how does the teacher KNOW that she did not write this out from the book earlier in the day? Only her word and I understand your mom heart because if my son did the same thing I would 100% believe him. But in a classroom all things must be equal and it is not right for a child to prewrite the answers to a test because there is NO WAY for the teacher to know if it was copied from the book or from memory.

I will be the dissenting voice. I would explain this to my child and tell him/her why it was wrong (because in my opinion it was) and let them deal with the consequences of disobeying the teacher's directions. That is what it comes down to not that she was cheating but that she did not follow directions which lead to her being accused of or thought to be cheating. It would be a life lesson in our home. One test is not going to ruin her grades.

As a former teacher that taught in 3 different Christian Schools, I know that schools have personalities. From everything I read here this particular school has a harsh personality with little or no mercy.

In my opinion, having been a teacher, it is the teacher's responsibility to FULLY explain to the child why an action was taken AFTER ascertaining why the #24 was prefilled. Effective teachers are tough BUT FAIR. Even incompetents can be TOUGH.

The goal of teaching is for children to learn. Cheating, and I mean by this REAL cheating, cannot be tolerated not just because it is wrong; but, primarily because it hinders the LEARNING process.

So.. here is what I would have done in this instance.

1) I would have considered I was dealing with a 3rd grader and not a 7th grader.
2) I would allow her to complete the all work and then take it from her.
3) I would then tell her that I noticed #24 was prefilled and ask her why.

If she stated the reason, as written in this thread:

4) I would explain why that isn't what I want as a teacher. That I wanted her to do the work like the others in real time.
5) I would then ask her the answer #24 either orally or on paper to be sure that she knew the material and grade her paper on the outcome.

If NOT then I would do the following:

4) Explain that cheating cheats her. And, that I will not let her avoid doing her best to learn. I would also explain that my desire for her is NOT that she get perfect scores. But, that she do her best and that wrong answers help me to know how to help her.
5) I would then ask her the answer #24 either orally or on paper to be sure that she knew the material and grade her paper; but, strike out #24 regardless.

Fairness does not preclude using EVERY educational event as opportunities for educational growth. Cheating comes from fear of failure. Yes, it should have consequences. But, as teachers we should be VERY sure that our directions are fully understood and that when cheating does rear its ugly head that we not only apply the discipline; but, help to overcome the fear that led to that student to cheat.

Now... one final word on 'Christian' schools. There was not one single school in which I worked that there wasn't somebody that school that wasn't either downright cruel or totally incompetent. Just because a school has 'Christian' in the name doesn't mean that the management of that school truly has a heart for children's learning. The first school in which I taught was clearly more politically driven (John Birch Society) than theologically driven and some of the teachers would probably end up going to jail in today's climate because of their over-the-top harshness toward student discipline.

At the other end of the spectrum, there are WONDERFUL Christian schools, like the one that my granddaughters now attend. Parents need to be very vigilant and not just go by the 'Christian' in the name of the school.



TMeeks -> RE: Daughter wrongly accused (3/25/2008 10:39:28 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: csl7037
I know teachers are human but I can't stomach my kid being labelled one of the "bad" ones who they only expect bad things from - kids pick up on that!!! She's a frustrating, difficult child; no one knows better than me. Her teacher last year handled her beautifully and actually appreciated her for her. I guess I can't expect that all the time.


I LOVED students like your daughter. I don't know why; but, for some reason, in the younger grades (1-4), they are the ones that I not only remember the most; but, remember the most fondly.

One of the things I would do was to tell them WHY they always seemed to be targets and what they could do to keep from being targets in the future. Generally they are smart kids that have either oppositional personalities or they simply have a habit of running their mouths EVERY time anybody else is talking.

They condition the teacher to expect that they will be talking whenever the class starts to get restless. So, the teacher KNOWS that if they turn their attention to that child they are BOUND to find at least one of the noisy kids to address and discipline. I would instruct them to purposely be quiet when they realized other class members were talking. So, when the teacher instinctively looked at them and found they were quiet they'd have to find other examples to call out. The kids were AMAZED at how quickly their position of the 'trouble maker' was transferred to somebody else. [:D][:D][:D]

The third grade is a great age to teach your child that they can change people's perceptions of them by simply changing their own behaviors at critical times.

What may be VERY useful for both you and your daughter is to pick up a copy of Dr. Caroline Leaf's DVD series (preferably) or the book, "Who Switched Off My Brain." She is a learning specialist from South Africa that has worked with over 80,000 students and her book explains the learning process and how to increase our abilities to learn.

One of her suggestions for active children is that they be allowed to use a large rubber ball as a seat instead of the traditional chair. Some people, myself included, learn and recall best WHILE MOVING since the primary area of the brain in which my memories are stored is also the area that controls movement. Knowing little things like this can have an enormous impact on a child's ability to learn and thrive.



coolfamily6 -> RE: Daughter wrongly accused (3/25/2008 10:55:44 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: csl7037

A zero on one out of 8 spelling tests (max) in a 9-weeks is pretty much going to trash her grade but if it has to be, it has to be.


If you daughter got a 90% on 7 tests and a 0 on the 8th it would be a 78.75% in our school that is a C. A C is average not "trashed"; it's average. If she got a 100% on even one test the grade average would be an 80%. If she got a 100% on the rest of the tests she would have an 87.5% Encourage her to work hard to score high on the rest of the tests. Ask her to ask the teacher if she can do something to make up for the zero.

.



TMeeks -> RE: Daughter wrongly accused (3/25/2008 11:44:28 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: coolfamily6

quote:

ORIGINAL: csl7037

A zero on one out of 8 spelling tests (max) in a 9-weeks is pretty much going to trash her grade but if it has to be, it has to be.


If you daughter got a 90% on 7 tests and a 0 on the 8th it would be a 78.75% in our school that is a C. A C is average not "trashed"; it's average. If she got a 100% on even one test the grade average would be an 80%. If she got a 100% on the rest of the tests she would have an 87.5% Encourage her to work hard to score high on the rest of the tests. Ask her to ask the teacher if she can do something to make up for the zero.

.

To a child, dropping even ONE grade level qualifies for having been trashed. [:D]

That is especially true if they feel that the teacher was not being fair. The real issue here, from my perspective as a teacher, is the maturity and fairness of the teacher. Again, the goal, even when it comes to discipline for cheating, is to facilitate REAL learning. The way this was handled completely disregarded that goal in favor of seeing cheating as a rule infraction against the school rather than an action that harms learning.

The suggestion to ask about extra work is an excellent one. It would give the teacher an opportunity to encourage the child.



momma_bee -> RE: Daughter wrongly accused (3/26/2008 7:37:32 AM)

My opinion - she should have missed the one that she definately 'could have' cheated on.

Minus 1



csl7037 -> RE: Daughter wrongly accused (3/26/2008 8:30:58 AM)

Thanks again, everyone. This teacher actually moved up this year from preschool. She's a former reporter for a local paper and is passionate about writing, is very creative and fun but, IMO expects a level of maturity that some 3rd graders might have but not my dd (who is the youngest and smallest in the class). My dd does best with the more firm teachers. This teacher doesn't reign her in well enough, I don't think. That's why I'm concerned that she's reacted to my daughter out of frustration rather than calmly asessed and responded to the situation at hand.

Did my dd know better? Should she have? I don't know. What's been told explicitly to these kids about what constitutes cheating? I don't see how I'm going to be able to know that. I'm quite sure my dd didn't know what would happen if the teacher saw that on her paper; I'm certain this wasn't a consequence she expected. Either because she hadn't been clearly told this was not to be done or because she doesn't take this teacher seriously on discipline. Or both.

At this point I'm pretty sure we're just going to have to live with this and I'll have to try my best to explain it to my dd so that she doesn't carry the embarassment or frustration forward thinking she just can't win so why bother. I don't expect for a minute to be able to make the teacher see or even consider that she may have acted too hastily or too harshly or at least missed a vital opportunity to explain her actions in a constructive way.

TMeeks, I wishI could take you with me to this meeting tomorrow. You're not looking for a job as principal, are you? (This school is looking for one.)



csl7037 -> RE: Daughter wrongly accused (3/26/2008 8:38:45 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: coolfamily6

quote:

ORIGINAL: csl7037

A zero on one out of 8 spelling tests (max) in a 9-weeks is pretty much going to trash her grade but if it has to be, it has to be.


If you daughter got a 90% on 7 tests and a 0 on the 8th it would be a 78.75% in our school that is a C. A C is average not "trashed"; it's average. If she got a 100% on even one test the grade average would be an 80%. If she got a 100% on the rest of the tests she would have an 87.5% Encourage her to work hard to score high on the rest of the tests. Ask her to ask the teacher if she can do something to make up for the zero.

.


oh, she got a 60 on the first test this 9-weeks because she didn't capitalize a bunch of stuff. I'm sure she should've known to capitalize those. This was undoubtedly a maturity issue. Also why I think this kid feels like she just can't win. She's a bright kid who doesn't fit the mold, I'm afraid. I've really been thinking lately that I wished we'd kept her in 2nd grade another year. There's NO way I'd consider redoing 3rd grade, though. Plus we're paying a fortune to go to this school so kinda hard to justify adding an extra year. I just keep hoping this will get easier if a maturity kicks in and brings her up to par with the rest of her peers. But so much of it is her personality that I'm just afraid this is the way school is going to be for her - always a struggle.



TMeeks -> RE: Daughter wrongly accused (3/26/2008 9:20:33 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: csl7037
oh, she got a 60 on the first test this 9-weeks because she didn't capitalize a bunch of stuff. I'm sure she should've known to capitalize those. This was undoubtedly a maturity issue. Also why I think this kid feels like she just can't win. She's a bright kid who doesn't fit the mold, I'm afraid. I've really been thinking lately that I wished we'd kept her in 2nd grade another year. There's NO way I'd consider redoing 3rd grade, though. Plus we're paying a fortune to go to this school so kinda hard to justify adding an extra year. I just keep hoping this will get easier if a maturity kicks in and brings her up to par with the rest of her peers. But so much of it is her personality that I'm just afraid this is the way school is going to be for her - always a struggle.

I'll not accept that future for her. [;)]

Every brain has WAY more capacity than even the most motivated child can come close to achieving. Even when there are issues where one part of the brain does not communicate well with another part of the brain, or a part of the brain is overactive, SOMETHING can be done to raise the expectation level for a child.

I had one student that never got above a 30 in written tests. But, when I'd test him orally he'd get 100%. So, I'd make him take the test in written form, for the practice, and then give him the first shot on each question orally as we went over the test in class. The other students were fine with this because I explained to them that God has created every person uniquely. And, that this young man was given verbal gifts rather than written gifts.

Where there is no learning there has been no teaching. Good teachers do not rest until they find ways to encourage each and every child to learn. You have to take time to know the child and you have to resist writing them off with lowered expectations.**

But, good teachers don't always make great prinicples! [:D][:D][:D]

** Maybe that is why I appreciate Dr. Leaf so much. Her whole thrust is that virtually EVERY brain can be GROWN.

We all know about Helen Keller. But, the REAL STORY behind her success was Martha Washington, the 6 year old daughter of the cook in her home and Anne Sullivan. When everyone gave up on Keller, a mother, a six year old and a semi-blind tutor did not. It's just too bad that it wasn't a Christian that saw the potential in Keller. Her life and the causes she promoted might have been vastly different.



csl7037 -> RE: Daughter wrongly accused (3/26/2008 9:45:45 AM)

TMeeks, not every teacher is like you. I think her teacher last year was. She's not very motivated, so sometimes I feel like I want her to do well but I can't help if she doesn't care or if she's just frustraed. Yesterday, for example, she got a 71 on a test. The night befor we did four review sheets that looked exactly like the test! She did great on the review sheets but when she gets to class I feel so hepless and I have no idea what goes wrong. I wish I knew what she needs from me. Funny thing is, she's doing a report on Helen Keller right now - I have to find a costume ASAP!



TMeeks -> RE: Daughter wrongly accused (3/26/2008 10:17:00 AM)

quote]ORIGINAL: csl7037
who is the youngest and smallest in the class
quote:

ORIGINAL: csl7037

TMeeks, not every teacher is like you. I think her teacher last year was. She's not very motivated, so sometimes I feel like I want her to do well but I can't help if she doesn't care or if she's just frustraed. Yesterday, for example, she got a 71 on a test. The night befor we did four review sheets that looked exactly like the test! She did great on the review sheets but when she gets to class I feel so hepless and I have no idea what goes wrong. I wish I knew what she needs from me. Funny thing is, she's doing a report on Helen Keller right now - I have to find a costume ASAP!

Again, I'll point you to Dr. Leaf's DVD series that will explain how to retain knowledge on a permanent basis rather than a short term basis. It is SO enlightening!

One of the things that can happen is that the prefrontal cortex can actually shut down under stress and something like that might be happening because she's come to expect to not do well. She might be doing a bit of 'Fortune Telling', saying to herself, "Why bother, I'm not going to do that well anyway." And, that can have an effect on her. Perhaps reminding her about how well she did the night before, on the morning of the test as you drop her off to school would rebuild her confidence.

I actually had shut down to get ready to go to my client and had to log back on after pondering the new revelation, that I'd missed, about her being the youngest and smallest in the class. This is important information. The smallest person in the class, in EVERY class I ever taught, had a special place or roll, in the class. Kids notice this. It's not an educationally fatal position to be in; but, it's also not inconsequential.

I'm not sure I'd hold her back, particularly in this class; but, if the school has a combination 4/3 or 5/4 then it might be good to put her in at the top level of that classroom. So, while she would be with her class (4th) peers, she would also be with her developmental peers (3rd) and the teacher could have the option of fitting her in the right grouping on a subject by subject basis. This is one of the strengths of having at last some combined grade level classrooms.

I'll have to think about the 'not very motivated' information. [:)]

After watching Dr. Leaf's DVD series, I'd suggest picking up Dr. Daniel Amen's book called, "Change You Brain, Change Your Life" which can be found in any of the chain bookstores. He goes through various areas of the brain, shows how the effects that each areas may have on behavior and then gives both practical prescriptions, natural remedies and medications that help the issues. Dr. Leaf's series will give you the grand overview, great encouragement and some simple steps for changing and growing our brains. Dr. Amen's book is a fully detailed guide that can serve as a reference for addressing particular behaviours at their root causes. They compliment each other wonderfully.



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