|
Users viewing this topic:
none
|
|
Login  | |
|
RE: Veterans Go Away - 3/26/2008 8:08:24 AM
|
|
|
SteveSund
Posts: 741
Joined: 11/8/2005
From: Michigan
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Leon_Figg3
The military, in our form of government, is overseen by civilians, but are ruled by their own rules and codes of conduct.
Cow451 is basically correct, though. At the very highest level, the military is controlled by civilians. Additionally, many of the 'rules', such as the UCMJ are part of the US Code and are promulgated by Congress and the President.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Veterans Go Away - 3/26/2008 8:16:57 AM
|
|
|
mapachito13
Posts: 1490
Joined: 10/1/2007
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Leon_Figg3
Secondly, where do you get this idea that the military exists to serve civilians as if they are politicans or civil servants? The military, in our form of government, is overseen by civilians, but are ruled by their own rules and codes of conduct. The military serves the country.
But they are under the control of a civilian leader. The President is commander-in-cheif. The Founding Fathers didn't want a military junta in this country or the military calling the shots. The country also is the people, not some non-human entity to be defended.
_____________________________
Three Nails to protect us!
And Justice for all!
Peace Sells....But Who's Buying!
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Veterans Go Away - 3/26/2008 9:09:27 AM
|
|
|
cow451
Posts: 3672
Joined: 5/6/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: small_creation
quote:
ORIGINAL: cow451
With all due respect, Armydude, dissidence is not unpatriotic. The military serves the civilians...
Whoa! Politicians serve civilians. The military protect and defend us. BIG DIFFERENCE!!!
This is why I respect our men and women servicepeople -- because of their position -- and not our politicians. Leave your beef with them.
j
News you can use: Check the chain of command. A civilian is Commander-in-chief. Congress has the legal right to declare war. Respect for the military doesn't undo the chain of command.
_____________________________
Wenn zuerst Sie nicht gelingen, Versuch, versuch wieder. Geben Sie dann auf. Es gibt keinen punkt, in ein zu sein, verdammt Narren darum. -- W. C. Fields
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Veterans Go Away - 3/26/2008 9:25:14 AM
|
|
|
mapachito13
Posts: 1490
Joined: 10/1/2007
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: cow451
quote:
ORIGINAL: small_creation
quote:
ORIGINAL: cow451
With all due respect, Armydude, dissidence is not unpatriotic. The military serves the civilians...
Whoa! Politicians serve civilians. The military protect and defend us. BIG DIFFERENCE!!!
This is why I respect our men and women servicepeople -- because of their position -- and not our politicians. Leave your beef with them.
j
News you can use: Check the chain of command. A civilian is Commander-in-chief. Congress has the legal right to declare war. Respect for the military doesn't undo the chain of command.
Here! Here! But the "new world order" wants the military and law enforcement with a sense that they are in charge - not American citizens. Keep the fear level (terrorist threat level) on high and the fear will allow the gov't to take away our civil liberties. I still don't see how some citizens think that the federal gov't has the ultimate authority. Sounds like socialistic thinking to me! Certainly not that of a democratic republic!
_____________________________
Three Nails to protect us!
And Justice for all!
Peace Sells....But Who's Buying!
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Veterans Go Away - 3/26/2008 9:33:26 AM
|
|
|
small_creation
Posts: 207
Joined: 10/30/2007
From: midwest
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: cow451
News you can use: Check the chain of command. A civilian is Commander-in-chief. Congress has the legal right to declare war. Respect for the military doesn't undo the chain of command.
Exactly. Thank you for making my point. Politicians can talk and devise plans, but it's the military which execute them.
It's these people who have the servants' hearts, enduring the hardships thrust upon them by men...simple but clever men put into power over them.
j
< Message edited by small_creation -- 3/26/2008 9:39:38 AM >
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Veterans Go Away - 3/26/2008 10:12:13 AM
|
|
|
WormHeart
Posts: 279
Joined: 3/10/2007
From: Denmark - pride of Scandinavia
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: EStan
these veterans should be welcome anytime, anywhere, period. God bless 'em for their service.
Great, then you will also welcome these veterans into schools anytime, anywhere, period.
Iraq Veterans Against the War
quote:
Today, IVAW members are in 48 states, Washington, D.C., Canada, and on numerous bases overseas, including Iraq. IVAW has chapters around the country and in Canada. IVAW members educate the public about the realities of the Iraq war by speaking in communities and to the media about their experiences. Members also dialogue with youth in classrooms about the realities of military service. IVAW supports all those resisting the war, including Conscientious Objectors and others facing military prosecution for their refusal to fight. IVAW advocates for full funding for the Veterans Administration, and full quality health treatment (including mental health) and benefits for veterans when they return from duty.
Emphasis mine.
WormHeart
_____________________________
Praise King and Country with might
Bless every Dane at heart
For serving with no fright
The Viking kingdom for Danes is true
With fields and waving beeches
By a sea so blue
National Anthem of Denmark
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Veterans Go Away - 3/26/2008 10:15:07 AM
|
|
|
rainbowtvp
Posts: 1073
Joined: 4/21/2005
From: The Unted State of Confusion
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Jhud
I agree; but in this respect it was bad for education because he allowed himself to be bullied by such protestors instead of telling them to take a flying leap.
I defer to SteveSund's response on this- it wasn't bowing to demands (which I agree is wrong) but preventing protests, etc.
quote:
The other part of this should these topics be covered in a classroom- ABSOLUTELY. In the proper manner. Which is why I said I hope that they will come up with an alternate activity.
quote:
Such as?
I hate to repeat myself, as I have given examples already- but bringing in local vets to share their stories or another group that does not have an agenda they are pushing.
quote:
How do you define ‘propoganda’? It would be pretty hard to find anyone who had no opinion on the war, and personally I don’t know what anyone could learn from such a person. These guys were there – and that counts for a lot.
According to the group, their mission is to increase support for "completing" the military mission in Iraq. Againa, I have said at least 3 times now, I think bringing in vets is a great idea. Having an opinion is no problem- pushing that opinion is. If they can share their experience in an objective way, it doesn't matter what their opinion is. In what I can get off the net about this group, they don't do that.
quote:
But none of this is a good argument about why this group of vets shouldn’t have been allowed to speak.
Well, that wasn't your call- nor mine- but the superintendent's.
Tara P
_____________________________
http://www.geocities.com/hallscola67/KyliesHomemadeShopIndex.htm
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Veterans Go Away - 3/26/2008 10:25:58 AM
|
|
|
jbow
Posts: 841
Joined: 2/16/2007
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: mapachito13
quote:
ORIGINAL: Jhud
Well of course, but everyone stops there. "We the People"...yada, yada, yada..."do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."
We the People of the United States, yada, yada, yada, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
And one of the reasons we did that was "to promote the general welfare".
The ultimate power of the Constitution resides with the people. Remember, we ordained and established the Constitution. We give the state its power and we can modify it and take it away when they start acting more like despots than our duly elected leaders.
Really??? Do you not remember the war of 1861-1865?? Where some states tried to legally leave the union in protest over this very thing...
The constitution protects the minority from the will of the majority. We elect leaders to lead. We can eithed recall them or vote them out but once they are in they are to use their judgement and make decisions based on their judgement, not on polls etc.
This is not a democracy and hopefully never will be.
J
_____________________________
"These things I have spoken to you, so that in Me you may have peace In the world you have tribulation, but take courage; I have overcome the world."
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Veterans Go Away - 3/26/2008 10:28:02 AM
|
|
|
rlj
Posts: 1632
Joined: 4/14/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
As far as the OP is concerned, it's shameful that a school would act in this way, but quite frankly I think it has more to do with the schools hyper-sensitivity to hypocritical parents and being politically correct than it does with leftists.
Ouch, that hurt. ; )
quote:
Al Queda and other terrorists don't need to produce their own propoganda. It's done by the "we support the troops" crowd. Their favorite part of the war is Abu Gharib. They tell the world our guys are torturing people. They say our soldiers are invaders and occupiers.
Has it ever occurred to anyone that if AG wouldn't have happened in the first place that it wouldn't be an issue? A news flash to- if you are going to invade then occupy a country which is exactly what we did expect there to be resistance. There was no AQ in Iraq until the war. There was no Sunni vs. Shiite vs. AQ fighting until the war. As a matter of fact when one looks at a map of the region a great big country to massacre the barbarians of the Great Satan freely is within driving distance of a great majority of Muslim nations.
quote:
Iraq has replaced Afghanistan as the training ground for the next generation of "professionalized" terrorists, according to a report released yesterday by the National Intelligence Council, the CIA director's think tank.
Iraq provides terrorists with "a training ground, a recruitment ground, the opportunity for enhancing technical skills," said David B. Low, the national intelligence officer for transnational threats. "There is even, under the best scenario, over time, the likelihood that some of the jihadists who are not killed there will, in a sense, go home, wherever home is, and will therefore disperse to various other countries."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A7460-2005Jan13.html
quote:
The IISS reported that al-Qaeda's recruitment and fundraising efforts had been given a major boost by the U.S. invasion of Iraq. It estimated that bin Laden's network today commands some 18,000 men, of which about 1,000 are currently inside Iraq. After almost three years of President Bush's war on terror, the IISS offered the following assessment of the movement's prospects: "Although half of al-Qaeda's 30 senior leaders and perhaps 2,000 rank-and-file members have been killed or captured, a rump leadership is still intact and more than 18,000 potential terrorists are still at large, with recruitment accelerating on account of Iraq." The continuing danger of an al-Qaeda strike inside the U.S. as it moves into election season was underscored Wednesday by Attorney General John Ashcroft, who warned that intelligence tips suggest that the movement plans to attack inside the U.S. some time in the coming months. It was a non-specific warning, of course, and the color-coded terror alert level was not raised as a result. But the announcement affirmed for Americans the fact that they remain vulnerable to al-Qaeda attack, if better prepared and forewarned than three years ago.
http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,642825,00.html
So tell me again how anti-war people are making Al Qaeda better when this war has been a boon for them?
_____________________________
-Roger
1 Thess 5:20 do not treat prophecies with contempt. 21 Test everything. Hold on to the good. (NIV)
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Veterans Go Away - 3/26/2008 10:29:19 AM
|
|
|
rlj
Posts: 1632
Joined: 4/14/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
Great, then you will also welcome these veterans into schools anytime, anywhere, period.
I'm waiting to hear a response to that one myself. ; )
_____________________________
-Roger
1 Thess 5:20 do not treat prophecies with contempt. 21 Test everything. Hold on to the good. (NIV)
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Veterans Go Away - 3/26/2008 10:38:11 AM
|
|
|
ljmac
Posts: 878
Joined: 11/20/2006
Status: offline
|
People who want to undermine our troop's mission shouldn't expect the government to help them do it. That some of these people are former military doesn't matter. John Kerry was once in the military yet few people have been as anti-troops as he has. Let these people find some other way to poison our kids minds. Maybe they should go to BO's church where they'll feel at home.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Veterans Go Away - 3/26/2008 11:43:01 AM
|
|
|
Jhud
Posts: 6790
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Lake Wobegon
Status: offline
|
quote:
Great, then you will also welcome these veterans into schools anytime, anywhere, period.
Iraq Veterans Against the War
I disagree; it's not a matter of inviting a group, it's a matter of rescinding an invitation when a few people make a stink.
Also there is no requirement that schools have diametrically opposing viewpoints for every issue. If a speaker comes to a school arguing for racial tolerance, the school isn't obligated to invite a member of the KKK to offer a different viewpoint.
_____________________________
Jack
“I mean to live my life an obedient man, but obedient to God, subservient to the wisdom of my ancestors; never to the authority of political truths arrived at yesterday at the voting booth”
William F. Buckley Jr. 1925-2008
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Veterans Go Away - 3/26/2008 11:45:12 AM
|
|
|
mapachito13
Posts: 1490
Joined: 10/1/2007
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: ljmac
People who want to undermine our troop's mission shouldn't expect the government to help them do it.
Why? Because the government has been doing a good job undermining it on it's own! This country truly has not learned the lessons of Vietnam. It's like deja vu in the news again with our political leaders and conservative talk show hosts saying the same thing they did in the 1960's-1970's.
If you are against the war, you're unpatriotic! If you're against the war you're for the terrorists (communists). If you're against the war, go live in Russia (or whatever enemy country)!
The First Amendment still exists in this country and our Founding Fathers saw it as so important that they listed it in the number one spot. So if YOU can't handle freedom of speech then maybe you're the ones that need to live in a place where everyone is told and expected to think the same way.
I guess this sounds like my pet peeve!
_____________________________
Three Nails to protect us!
And Justice for all!
Peace Sells....But Who's Buying!
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Veterans Go Away - 3/26/2008 11:57:02 AM
|
|
|
Jhud
Posts: 6790
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Lake Wobegon
Status: offline
|
quote:
Why? Because the government has been doing a good job undermining it on it's own! This country truly has not learned the lessons of Vietnam. It's like deja vu in the news again with our political leaders and conservative talk show hosts saying the same thing they did in the 1960's-1970's.
If you are against the war, you're unpatriotic! If you're against the war you're for the terrorists (communists). If you're against the war, go live in Russia (or whatever enemy country)!
The First Amendment still exists in this country and our Founding Fathers saw it as so important that they listed it in the number one spot. So if YOU can't handle freedom of speech then maybe you're the ones that need to live in a place where everyone is told and expected to think the same way.
I guess this sounds like my pet peeve!
I have no problem with people speaking out against the war, but comparing Iraq to Viet Nam is just wrong.
Nearly 60,000 Americans died in Viet Nam, with little progress in terms of establishing a lasting government there; 4000 Americans have died in Iraq, and great strides have been made to establish a government and stability there - there simply isn't a large, well-funded, and well armed army opposing us militarily there - so whatever you think about the rightness of the war, it's not 'Viet Nam'.
_____________________________
Jack
“I mean to live my life an obedient man, but obedient to God, subservient to the wisdom of my ancestors; never to the authority of political truths arrived at yesterday at the voting booth”
William F. Buckley Jr. 1925-2008
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Veterans Go Away - 3/26/2008 12:29:54 PM
|
|
|
ljmac
Posts: 878
Joined: 11/20/2006
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: mapachito13
quote:
ORIGINAL: ljmac
People who want to undermine our troop's mission shouldn't expect the government to help them do it.
Why? Because the government has been doing a good job undermining it on it's own! This country truly has not learned the lessons of Vietnam. It's like deja vu in the news again with our political leaders and conservative talk show hosts saying the same thing they did in the 1960's-1970's.
If you are against the war, you're unpatriotic! If you're against the war you're for the terrorists (communists). If you're against the war, go live in Russia (or whatever enemy country)!
The First Amendment still exists in this country and our Founding Fathers saw it as so important that they listed it in the number one spot. So if YOU can't handle freedom of speech then maybe you're the ones that need to live in a place where everyone is told and expected to think the same way.
I guess this sounds like my pet peeve!
If one is buring an American flag, if one is calling our soldiers Nazis, if one comparing America to totalitarian states, then it is extremly likely that one is against the war. While not all who are opposed to the war are anti-American, anti-Americans are almost always anti-war. They want us to lose.
If someone wants to make propoganda sound bites for Islamic terrorists, they have no place in an American public school. Instead, go to a radical mosque or to Obama's church where there are like-minded mobs.
Stop whining about the first amendment.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Veterans Go Away - 3/26/2008 12:54:33 PM
|
|
|
shawke
Posts: 7145
Joined: 3/31/2005
Status: offline
|
Here is a snippet from THIS column: (second entry on the page)
quote:
Pete Hegseth, a Forest Lake High grad and the director of Vets for Freedom, told the Star Tribune that he had talked with school officials during the planning process, and made clear that presenters would not make political statements. “It’s Iraq and Afghan veterans talking about what they saw and what they did there, and about what it means to put on the uniform of your country,” he said. Emphasis mine
It was only after a threat of protests from "Democratic Underground" that the school canceled the appearance: (from first entry)
quote:
The decision came after an announcement at the “Democratic Underground Forums” website of a planned press conference opposing the veterans’ appearance.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Veterans Go Away - 3/26/2008 1:58:04 PM
|
|
|
rainbowtvp
Posts: 1073
Joined: 4/21/2005
From: The Unted State of Confusion
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: shawke
Here is a snippet from THIS column: (second entry on the page)
quote:
Pete Hegseth, a Forest Lake High grad and the director of Vets for Freedom, told the Star Tribune that he had talked with school officials during the planning process, and made clear that presenters would not make political statements. “It’s Iraq and Afghan veterans talking about what they saw and what they did there, and about what it means to put on the uniform of your country,” he said. Emphasis mine
If he was being honest, I would have no problem with it. Just liek the Power Team and similar groups that have a Christian message, but go into schools/on secular tv, etc and have a secular program, but then also have shows in churches, etc. where they incorporate a strong Christian message.
Tara P
_____________________________
http://www.geocities.com/hallscola67/KyliesHomemadeShopIndex.htm
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Veterans Go Away - 3/26/2008 2:16:32 PM
|
|
|
stamper_ben
Posts: 10845
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Lone Star State
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: rainbowtvp
quote:
ORIGINAL: shawke
Here is a snippet from THIS column: (second entry on the page)
quote:
Pete Hegseth, a Forest Lake High grad and the director of Vets for Freedom, told the Star Tribune that he had talked with school officials during the planning process, and made clear that presenters would not make political statements. “It’s Iraq and Afghan veterans talking about what they saw and what they did there, and about what it means to put on the uniform of your country,” he said. Emphasis mine
If he was being honest, I would have no problem with it. Just liek the Power Team and similar groups that have a Christian message, but go into schools/on secular tv, etc and have a secular program, but then also have shows in churches, etc. where they incorporate a strong Christian message.
Tara P
Why exactly do you think he is being dishonest?
_____________________________
We will be known as His by the love we show one another.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Veterans Go Away - 3/26/2008 2:35:37 PM
|
|
|
cow451
Posts: 3672
Joined: 5/6/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: jbow
Really??? Do you not remember the war of 1861-1865??
Ah, yes. That would be the War of Northern Aggression. Sorry, off topic.
_____________________________
Wenn zuerst Sie nicht gelingen, Versuch, versuch wieder. Geben Sie dann auf. Es gibt keinen punkt, in ein zu sein, verdammt Narren darum. -- W. C. Fields
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Veterans Go Away - 3/26/2008 3:59:42 PM
|
|
|
rainbowtvp
Posts: 1073
Joined: 4/21/2005
From: The Unted State of Confusion
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: stamper_ben
Why exactly do you think he is being dishonest?
LOL! That is nothing personal against him, I am just cynical by nature. I always assume everyone is being deceptive.
Tara P
_____________________________
http://www.geocities.com/hallscola67/KyliesHomemadeShopIndex.htm
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Veterans Go Away - 3/27/2008 12:02:27 AM
|
|
|
rlj
Posts: 1632
Joined: 4/14/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
Ah, yes. That would be the War of Northern Aggression. Sorry, off topic.
Cow is just mad that Sherman didn't burn Alabama to the ground.
_____________________________
-Roger
1 Thess 5:20 do not treat prophecies with contempt. 21 Test everything. Hold on to the good. (NIV)
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Veterans Go Away - 3/27/2008 7:59:52 AM
|
|
|
SonInMe1
Posts: 3691
Joined: 4/16/2005
From: my mom by God
Status: offline
|
quote:
Nearly 60,000 Americans died in Viet Nam, with little progress in terms of establishing a lasting government there; 4000 Americans have died in Iraq, and great strides have been made to establish a government and stability there - there simply isn't a large, well-funded, and well armed army opposing us militarily there - so whatever you think about the rightness of the war, it's not 'Viet Nam'.
This just needed repeating.
_____________________________
You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
James 4:4
|
|
| | |
Forum Tools
Printable Version
