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RE: 23 miniutes in Hell, and Ninety minutes in Heaven - 5/1/2008 3:57:48 PM
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hawknelsonismyfriend
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quote:
ORIGINAL: fallenstar Yes! I have heard of it, it is in my church bookstore, but I thought it might be a phony and not really worth reading. I just don't think it's possible that one could pass on to heaven\hell, and come back. Once you'ev gone that far, I don't think you can come back. I can't say, either, it's never happened to me before. As for a video of it, that's pretty cool. The part where the guy is in hell might be too disturbing, though. Who's the author? My teacher died when she had a baby for a minute, and she saw heaven and Jesus, then they brought her back to life. And she tells people about it.
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...You all laugh at me like I'm not happy With anything, anytime, anywhere And the half of me is all about apathy And the other half just doesn't care...
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RE: 23 miniutes in Hell, and Ninety minutes in Heaven - 5/3/2008 12:39:46 PM
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Gallivant
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It sounds interesting. What's it about?
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RE: 23 miniutes in Hell, and Ninety minutes in Heaven - 5/3/2008 3:53:26 PM
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lil_gringa
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Thank you for sharing the links! There will be many that will not believe. God have mercy on their souls. Our friend shipped 90 Minutes in Heaven to us a few weeks ago.
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RE: 23 miniutes in Hell, and Ninety minutes in Heaven - 5/3/2008 7:54:44 PM
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lightshineon
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Two different men with two different experiences, in two different books, I might add. One claims an experience in heaven, one in hell, both very good books, quote:
ORIGINAL: Gallivant It sounds interesting. What's it about?
_____________________________
Remember, whenever you have pearls, there are always plenty of pigs nearby who would be glad to step on them. F.T., 2007 Be sure you vote for those, whose views you want your children to emulate.
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RE: 23 miniutes in Hell, and Ninety minutes in Heaven - 5/6/2008 1:06:57 PM
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DaveW
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Rev Charles Simpson had a guy in his congregation back in the 80s that was a nominal attender to his church (went with his family) and had never really committed himself to the Lord. (I am not sure if he went to Gulf Coast Covenant Church or one of the other congregations that Simpson helped oversee) He died in an accident working on a logjam (he was a lumberjack) and went to hell. He knew the truth but had never accepted it. He did come back - at the funeral home. He did not want to talk about it at all as it was too bad. He immediatly repented and committed his life to Christ. He told his story to Rev Simpson but would not let his name get out as he did not want to keep re-living the story. As to these books, who knows?
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Avatar is Saphira 5 months and Louvena at 23 months! We are now grandparents TWICE!! ==================================== Our CD is now available here: http://cdbaby.com/cd/dswaggoner
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RE: 23 miniutes in Hell, and Ninety minutes in Heaven - 6/1/2008 8:57:58 AM
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Pat-rebel_lady
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quote:
ORIGINAL: BeachLover99 I read 90 Minutes in Heaven. I LOVED it. My mom passed away less than a year ago, and when I found out this book existed, I bought it because I wanted to see what my mom experienced during HER first 90 minutes in Heaven. I now know she is safe and in the company of those who went before her, and I know she is pain free (for the first time in years) and oh so happy! I believe everything Don Piper wrote in his book. That's just me. He tells his story with such eloquent conviction. He had too many people with him for this to be anything but true. I have NOT read the 23 Minutes in Hell book, nor do I plan to; this is a personal choice I made. I would rather concentrate on happier things. Yes, I've read 90 Minutes in Heaven. I LOVED it too!! I have NOT read the 23 Minutes in Hell book; fact is, this is the first time I've heard of it.
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RE: 23 miniutes in Hell, and Ninety minutes in Heaven - 6/1/2008 9:17:44 AM
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Pat-rebel_lady
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Out of curiosity about the book '23 miniutes in Hell', I checked out the 'Most Helpful Customer Reviews' at Amazon; By Byron C. Justice "Lone Tree" (Houston, TX) wrote (in part): quote:
No, this title isn't about Weise's appointment with the IRS. The author claims to have visited the actual Sheol, or Hell, in an out-of-body experience in 1998. Not in a dream; not in a vision; yet in a lifeless version of his own body he says he actually went there and was brought back by Jesus Himself. Many readers will see a few red flags surrounding this book: Wiese lives in southern California, not exaclty the bastion of Christianity. The title is similar to other books such as "90 Minutes in Heaven," making it less original. Wiese is not a theologian. The first part of this book--the visit to Hell itself--is littered with Scripture quotations and marks for chapter end notes which interrupt the flow of the dialogue. I think this part would have been much improved if Wiese had simply shared his experience in his own words, without pausing to support every detail with a Scripture quote. A very thorough appendix included with the book serves that purpose nicely for those who wish to consider everything Wiese says and judge it against the Bible. Personally, I have an aversion to books (and there are many) which sprinkle in snippets of Scripture, often out of context, like fertilizer pellets on a lawn. One can read everything in the Bible in its proper context by... reading a Bible. From a literary standpoint, Wiese's descriptions of what he saw in Hell didn't add anything to what I already know through the Bible or visualized reading Dante's "Inferno." The reading becomes better by the middle of "23 Minutes," however, as Wiese begins telling how the Lord led him by miracles to spread the word about Hell. I guess you couldn't call it "good news." Non-believers will write these off as good luck, while believers will credit the Devine purpose. Either way, they are believable. One thing I did find disturbing was Wiese says he met other people who wrote books about their visits to Hell, but he does not identify these authors. I assume they are among those listed in the appendix, but it would seem natural to me to name the author and the title of those books as they are mentioned, especially if Wiese had space to put in all of those other references. Later chapters address the questions of what makes one bound for Hell, what demons are and do, and what physical parts make up Hell. ..... More HERE Be sure to scroll down the page to finish reading this review, and other reviews. From what I've found at this Link site, I think it looks like a very interesting read.
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RE: 23 miniutes in Hell, and Ninety minutes in Heaven - 6/8/2008 2:11:51 PM
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HisFish
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What is the point of this book?. The unbeliever isnt going to be anymore convinced of anything because of this, and the believer allready accepts that hell is real. This from The Discerning reader website: "My foremost concern involves theology. And here I want to point to the error that also plagued Don Piper’s 90 Minutes in Heaven. It regards the necessity of such visitations. Don Piper travels the world now under the banner of “The Minister of Hope.” He brings hope by telling people that he has been to heaven and can attest that it is a real place. Bill Wiese now shares his message that hell is also real and is a real place (a really bad place). Yet in the Bible I find no reason to believe that God would want or need people to carry this kind of message based on their own experiences. God has given us the Bible precisely so we do not need such people! When a man travels around carrying a message like this one, he implicitly denies that the Bible is warning enough; his ministry indicates that he feels we need something more than “merely” the Bible in order to warn people of the joy to come to those who believe and the wrath to come for those who do not. These messengers, perhaps inadvertently, deny the uniqueness and the sufficiency of the Bible. If people will not believe the words of God as given in Scripture, why should or would they believe the fanciful words of a mere man?
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The theology of the present aims at the deification of man, but the truth of all time magnifies God . C. H. Spurgeon
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RE: 23 miniutes in Hell, and Ninety minutes in Heaven - 6/13/2008 12:46:55 AM
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Pat-rebel_lady
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quote:
Yes, I've read 90 Minutes in Heaven. I LOVED it too!! I have NOT read the 23 Minutes in Hell book; .... I'll say it again: Yes, I've read 90 Minutes in Heaven. I LOVED it too!! I have NOT read the 23 Minutes in Hell book quote:
What is the point of this book?. The unbeliever isnt going to be anymore convinced of anything because of this, and the believer allready accepts that hell is real. This from The Discerning reader website: "My foremost concern involves theology. And here I want to point to the error that also plagued Don Piper’s 90 Minutes in Heaven. It regards the necessity of such visitations. Don Piper travels the world now under the banner of “The Minister of Hope.” He brings hope by telling people that he has been to heaven and can attest that it is a real place. Bill Wiese now shares his message that hell is also real and is a real place (a really bad place). Yet in the Bible I find no reason to believe that God would want or need people to carry this kind of message based on their own experiences. God has given us the Bible precisely so we do not need such people! When a man travels around carrying a message like this one, he implicitly denies that the Bible is warning enough; his ministry indicates that he feels we need something more than “merely” the Bible in order to warn people of the joy to come to those who believe and the wrath to come for those who do not. These messengers, perhaps inadvertently, deny the uniqueness and the sufficiency of the Bible. If people will not believe the words of God as given in Scripture, why should or would they believe the fanciful words of a mere man? Unless you have read these books from cover to cover; Not parts of these books about going to hell or heaven, as henny stated that he did; You will not discover the point of this book (s) --- some people are so focused on the 'going to hell or heaven' aspect they remain disappointed even after reading the book because they totally miss the real ministry. It is a ministry to people suffering in extreme physical pain; which includes emotional and mental anguish as well; and how knowing there is a real place called heaven helps take the focus off themselves and their own personal pain and see others around them who are suffering too. Knowing there is a real heaven, and hearing his personal story; personal witness; It gives hope and helps that person to reach out and identify and communicate with others who are going through the same physical, emotional and mental anguish as they are. I'm sorry there are people blind to the need of a ministry such as this.
< Message edited by Pat-rebel_lady -- 6/13/2008 12:53:30 AM >
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RE: 23 miniutes in Hell, and Ninety minutes in Heaven - 6/13/2008 10:00:35 PM
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HisFish
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Joined: 8/3/2005
From: Rocky mountain way
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quote:
It is a ministry to people suffering in extreme physical pain; which includes emotional and mental anguish as well; and how knowing there is a real place called heaven helps take the focus off themselves and their own personal pain and see others around them who are suffering too. Knowing there is a real heaven, and hearing his personal story; personal witness; It gives hope and helps that person to reach out and identify and communicate with others who are going through the same physical, emotional and mental anguish as they are. Wow, i didnt know the bible was so silent on the subject of heaven that another book was needed to validate it. quote:
I'm sorry there are people blind to the need of a ministry such as this How has one mans fanciful tale become a "ministry".
< Message edited by HisFish -- 6/13/2008 10:08:25 PM >
_____________________________
The theology of the present aims at the deification of man, but the truth of all time magnifies God . C. H. Spurgeon
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RE: 23 miniutes in Hell, and Ninety minutes in Heaven - 6/13/2008 10:34:13 PM
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friend2every1
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I read "23" and I couldn't even go to sleep the night I read it.... I breathed so hard..... It was frightening... Oh my gosh.
< Message edited by friend2every1 -- 6/13/2008 10:40:36 PM >
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That's what love is for To help us through it That's what love is for Nothing else can do it Melt our defenses Bring us back to our senses Give us strength to try once more That's what love is for -John 3:16, in my own words
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RE: 23 miniutes in Hell, and Ninety minutes in Heaven - 6/15/2008 8:05:01 PM
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lewbcw
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I have wondered much about the 23 Minutes in Hell book and its authenticity and truthfulness more so than John Piper's 90 Minutes in Heaven. While there have been many accounts of near death experiences that document what is supposedly seen in the Heavenly afterlife, there are few that have chronicled what is in Hell (at least that I know of). I have a long list of critical questions regarding the Bill Wiese experience: ...Why would God "send" a Christian to Hell to get a glimpse/experience of it if it is so bad? Though it is true that our culture seems to make light of and even caricature Heaven and Hell at its worst of moments, would God really need or want to send a person there to experience it first-hand to deliver a message to us? Is there no other possible way? Is it moral/ethical to do so? Does it not seem kind of like a sick experiment? Would it be somewhat like sending a 12-year disobedient kid to live unguarded in an adult prison for a night to scare him straight (and have all kinds of terrible things happen to him)? Is Hell not reserved for those unrepentant sinners after the judgment? Why would anyone be sent there now to experience it, even if just to tell the world about it? Does Hell even exist temporally as of now (or after the Judgment) - from a human-time point of view? And who would take that person's dream/near-death/after-life experience seriously? Again these are merely my first impression, knee-jerk type reactions, but I cannot help but find the whole concept of Wiese's experience to be very skeptical at best. I might believe that our subconscious creates a dream sequence in which we see possibly real and/or metaphorically terrible things in Hell as a bad dream, but for it to have been real and initiated by God Himself, makes me very skeptical. I have had many bad dreams before in which it felt like I was in Hell, where people were chasing me to kill me and I was trapped in some diabolical chamber of death and torture with evil, nasty looking monsters out to get me. I even recall dreams of waking up in "Hell" a few times, but never felt they were direct revelations from God - more like bad dreams based on something real, but not the real thing itself. This last part and the entire concept of Wiese's experience being God initiated is what continues to trouble me. (And without taking away from the seriousness of the subject, at my most skeptical moments, I felt, as another poster pointed out, that these scenes came straight out of a B-rated horror movie. Almost to be laughed at. Though I do believe, as Scripture alludes to, that one of the real and unimaginable horrors of Hell is the eternal conscience awareness of one's sins and failure in life - an everlasting feeling of sadness and loss. That alone is enough for me to fear it. As for the scaly demonic figures and being chained and having my head or flesh ripped off from the Wiese account, I cannot say.) I wonder have there been any prominent, contemporary Christian leaders who have completely endorsed either book and/or have given their views of them? I find the books to be fascinating as narratives, but cannot say that I know enough to judge and believe them to be true or not. Just mostly skepticism. lewbcw
< Message edited by lewbcw -- 6/15/2008 8:27:22 PM >
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RE: 23 miniutes in Hell, and Ninety minutes in Heaven - 6/19/2008 7:53:58 AM
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Pat-rebel_lady
Posts: 526
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quote:
ORIGINAL: DaveW Rev Charles Simpson had a guy in his congregation back in the 80s that was a nominal attender to his church (went with his family) and had never really committed himself to the Lord. (I am not sure if he went to Gulf Coast Covenant Church or one of the other congregations that Simpson helped oversee) He died in an accident working on a logjam (he was a lumberjack) and went to hell. He knew the truth but had never accepted it. He did come back - at the funeral home. He did not want to talk about it at all as it was too bad. He immediatly repented and committed his life to Christ. He told his story to Rev Simpson but would not let his name get out as he did not want to keep re-living the story. As to these books, who knows? I had heard this story too; I'd forgotten about it until you mentioned it here. I believe it to be true; Rev Charles Simpson is one of my favorite Teachers. Pat
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RE: 23 miniutes in Hell, and Ninety minutes in Heaven - 6/19/2008 8:15:00 AM
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JimboFletch
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Pat-rebel_lady quote:
ORIGINAL: DaveW Rev Charles Simpson had a guy in his congregation back in the 80s that was a nominal attender to his church (went with his family) and had never really committed himself to the Lord. (I am not sure if he went to Gulf Coast Covenant Church or one of the other congregations that Simpson helped oversee) He died in an accident working on a logjam (he was a lumberjack) and went to hell. He knew the truth but had never accepted it. He did come back - at the funeral home. He did not want to talk about it at all as it was too bad. He immediatly repented and committed his life to Christ. He told his story to Rev Simpson but would not let his name get out as he did not want to keep re-living the story. As to these books, who knows? I had heard this story too; I'd forgotten about it until you mentioned it here. I believe it to be true; Rev Charles Simpson is one of my favorite Teachers. Pat And if it occurred after embalming it should be believable, since people have all the blood pumped out of their body and replaced with embalming fluid within 24 hours and, therefore, there's no chance that they were dreaming or experiecing oxygen deprivation, both of which can convince people they have experienced something real.
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RE: 23 miniutes in Hell, and Ninety minutes in Heaven - 6/19/2008 8:34:03 AM
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Pat-rebel_lady
Posts: 526
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch quote:
ORIGINAL: Pat-rebel_lady quote:
ORIGINAL: DaveW Rev Charles Simpson had a guy in his congregation back in the 80s that was a nominal attender to his church (went with his family) and had never really committed himself to the Lord. (I am not sure if he went to Gulf Coast Covenant Church or one of the other congregations that Simpson helped oversee) He died in an accident working on a logjam (he was a lumberjack) and went to hell. He knew the truth but had never accepted it. He did come back - at the funeral home. He did not want to talk about it at all as it was too bad. He immediatly repented and committed his life to Christ. He told his story to Rev Simpson but would not let his name get out as he did not want to keep re-living the story. As to these books, who knows? I had heard this story too; I'd forgotten about it until you mentioned it here. I believe it to be true; Rev Charles Simpson is one of my favorite Teachers. Pat And if it occurred after embalming it should be believable, since people have all the blood pumped out of their body and replaced with embalming fluid within 24 hours and, therefore, there's no chance that they were dreaming or experiecing oxygen deprivation, both of which can convince people they have experienced something real. It is not required to be embalmed in order to be buried. The funeral industry pushes hard for it in order to make more money, but you don't have to be embalmed and you don't have to buy one of their caskets either. Any sturdy box will do. They actually have refrigeration units to keep you "fresh" for the day of your viewing, wake or burial. They can charge you a per day charge for refrigeration. HERE
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RE: 23 miniutes in Hell, and Ninety minutes in Heaven - 6/19/2008 9:11:01 AM
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lightshineon
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Well I tell you what twenty three minutes in Hell did for me, if it is true or not. I do not want people to go there. It is a scary, forever place. It makes me think of the suicide bomber, my cousion I am not sure if was saved that died last week. I could not se him, but prayed and prayed. Makes me pray for people I see walking down the road, prisoners, my brother and SIL, my SIL evil family, and so on. There is no one Charles Manson included, that I want to see in a place like that. It gave me a sense of wanting the unsaved to heaven, I pray, I care. If the book is true or not, well that is not the point, the point is hell is real, we forget that sometimes. I think it is real, and God works in mysterious ways. Ninety minutes in heaven is an encourament to those who have lost loved ones, those facing loss, those going through a hard time. It makes you also want to take people with you to heaven also. I will tell you I had a very frightening ( sureal) experience in 1998, there were witnessess, more than six, it had to do with hell. It would seem very unbelieveable to some of you. If others did not witnessess the bizzare things that happened, I would have thought I had a psycotic break. God the Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit know I am telling the truth. I am no flake, I am balanced Biblically. I never wrote a book, never will most likely, do not talk about it. I will tell you people that witnessed it all became saved, except my brother. It changed my whole family, husband, mother, dad, children and friends, and there changing and mine has changed peoples lives for Christ.
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Remember, whenever you have pearls, there are always plenty of pigs nearby who would be glad to step on them. F.T., 2007 Be sure you vote for those, whose views you want your children to emulate.
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RE: 23 miniutes in Hell, and Ninety minutes in Heaven - 6/19/2008 2:31:46 PM
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lewbcw
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I am going to research some Christian views and opinions on these two books and their subject matter, but I did have another thought come to mind about it. In Jesus' parable about the rich man and beggar Lazarus (Luke, ch. 16), when the rich man is in Hell and begging Abraham to allow him to leave in order to warn his family about not ending up there, Abraham denies him all of his various requests to warn his family. The last verse in that chapter of the parable says that if the rich man's relatives would not listen to the word and religious law of current and old leaders, they would also not accept Christ even if someone from the dead came back to warn them. That seems to be a very strong statement, considering how literally awesome it would be to see a dead relative come back. I wonder if that is not an appropriate parallel situation from which we can draw conclusions about the validity of current claims to have seen Heaven and Hell - especially by those claiming they were sent there in order to warn us. Is this not exactly what the parable Jesus taught about the rich man and Lazarus as being superfluous and ineffective? Why would God do this if it is unnecessary to the world? lewbcw
< Message edited by lewbcw -- 6/19/2008 2:41:20 PM >
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RE: 23 miniutes in Hell, and Ninety minutes in Heaven - 6/19/2008 2:45:12 PM
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JimboFletch
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Pat-rebel_lady It is not required to be embalmed in order to be buried. The funeral industry pushes hard for it in order to make more money, but you don't have to be embalmed and you don't have to buy one of their caskets either. Any sturdy box will do. They actually have refrigeration units to keep you "fresh" for the day of your viewing, wake or burial. They can charge you a per day charge for refrigeration. Many states require either burial or embalming within 24 hours of death unless an autopsy is required. But that wasn't my point. If someone was embalmed and came back from the dead, it would be more interesting than them waking up in the funeral home making a claim that cannot be verified. Just saying. Either way, I don't have to accept any such stories to bolster my faith. Jesus said it best when He said that people that do not listen to Moses and the Prophets will not be persuaded even if someone rises from the dead. The Gospel isn't about a risen Lazarus but about the risen Jesus.
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RE: 23 miniutes in Hell, and Ninety minutes in Heaven - 6/19/2008 11:25:02 PM
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FolkSingerBlues
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Jimbo, there are several things that you and I have butted heads over in the past. On this we are in agreement. I don't need a "super sensational experience" with God to trust him. The everyday is "super sensational" enough for me. I am really opposed to this on going trend that we have to base our belief of God on anything OTHER than His word. 23 Minutes In Hell was an interesting listen (I heard the audio version) but it wasn't anything that affirmed my faith. Nor did it make me really NOT want to go to hell. I didn't want to go there anyway...lol As far as the 90 Minutes In Heaven. I hold it in the same perspective. I wouldn't have a problem with either of them if they were presented as a "This is what I imagine it would be like..." or "I had this dream and I wanted to share it" but for someone to be claiming that God...never mind I won't finish it. Jimbo, I think we are in agreement my brother and friend!
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My Blog Proof texting is a very dangerous thing...If we were given the Scriptures it was to humble us into realizing God is right and the rest of us are just guessing. -Rich Mullins
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