|
Users viewing this topic:
none
|
|
Login  | |
|
RE: baptism in Jesus' name or Father, Son, Holy Ghost - 4/27/2008 8:25:43 AM
|
|
|
greatdivide46
Posts: 1106
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Opp, Alabama
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Him4all
If it's 'your baptism' then how do you resolve the multiple baptisms which are scripturally required for foundational doctrines of The Faith in Heb 6? I'm not entirely convinced that the multiple "baptisms" mentioned in Hebrews 6 are a foundational doctrine of The Faith. The translation I use translates that word "washings" instead of "baptisms" which I suspect is a better translation. So, it could be referring back to all the washings that the Jews had to do in order to be clean in God's sight.
quote:
It's been my experience that personal modes of water baptism has brought not only lack of unity, but actual church splits and relational conflict to the body of Christ even to this day. So how does 'your baptism' maintain Spiritual unity? Were you sprinkled or dunked were you of age or an infant, was it in a stangant pool or running water ect. ect. See what I mean? All those variables have promoted division...not unity. I agree that teachings concerning modes of water baptism has brought lack of unity and actual church splits and relational conflict to the body of Christ even to this day. I believe that's because men somehow get it in their minds what they believe and then try to make the Bible fit that.
Personally, I have been sprinkled and "dunked." I was of age and an infant. I've never been baptized in running water, though. I have been "dunked" twice though. Once for salvation and once to join a Southern Baptist church that would not accept my immersion in a different church. Another example of disunity, I suppose.
But I really think the disunity in the church today is due to man's sinful nature and not to the disparity of doctrines, although that's the excuse.
_____________________________
greatdivide46
SFC, USA (Ret)
The reflections of the heart belong to man, but the answer of the tongue is from the LORD -- Proverbs 16:1
|
|
|
|
|
RE: baptism in Jesus' name or Father, Son, Holy Ghost - 4/27/2008 2:21:53 PM
|
|
|
Heavendweller
Posts: 552
Joined: 12/22/2007
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: greatdivide46:
"Personally, I have been sprinkled and "dunked." I was of age and an infant. I've never been baptized in running water, though. I have been "dunked" twice though. Once for salvation and once to join a Southern Baptist church that would not accept my immersion in a different church. Another example of disunity, I suppose." This had me laughing. Quite a departure from the Reformers, wouldn't ya say? One could find themselves in quite a quandary in changing church membership these days. The possibilities are endless! For example, one could be baptized as an infant in a Lutheran church, then re-baptized in a Reformed Church because the infant baptism was unscriptural, then re-baptised in a Southern Baptist church because the previous two weren't acceptable, then re-baptized in an Independent Baptist church, because they are the only one's who follow the Scriptural teaching on Baptism, then be re-baptized again in a One-ness Pentecostal church because they weren't baptized in "Jesus' name only" then join a non-denominational church (your garden variety type of which there are many) and be told that Baptism is of no importance whatsoever!
The result would be, I think, a very perplexed Christian indeed. Now I'm hoping those who read this have a sense of humor. 
quote:
But I really think the disunity in the church today is due to man's sinful nature and not to the disparity of doctrines, although that's the excuse.
Is it possible, greatdivide, that it is man's sinful nature which is the root cause for the disparity of doctrines? "I'm right, no I'm right and you're wrong. Ah, the whole lot of you are wrong and we're right." But the question must then be asked, who is right? Right? 
Heavendweller
|
|
|
|
|
RE: baptism in Jesus' name or Father, Son, Holy Ghost - 4/27/2008 11:48:31 PM
|
|
|
figmentPez
Posts: 2611
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: TX
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Him4all
"One Lord"...is that speaking of you or Jesus?
"One faith"...is that faith in you or Jesus?
"One God"and Father...is that like when Isa 9:6 said Jesus' name was "mighty God, Everlasting Father or is it talking about you?
Now, we only have "One baptism" left in that list, so the question is: Is that 'a baptism' that pertains to Jesus...or to you?
LUK 12:50 But I/Jesus have a baptism to be baptized with; and how am I straitened till it be accomplished!
The baptism spoken of here is the baptism of the death of Jesus on the cross. And that is the only baptism necessary for us to ALL believe in, which will determine whether we maintain the unity of the Spirit or not...which is the context of Eph 4:3 and this whole list to begin with.
Colossians 2:12
12having been buried with Him in baptism, in which you were also raised up with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead.
That one baptism, the one that believers participate in, is the same baptism that Jesus Christ endured. When Christians are baptized, we join in with the baptism of Jesus Christ. One baptism. Ephesians 4 is most certainly applicable to this discussion.
_____________________________
I make this challenge to all Christians:
Read Daniel 7:13-14
And tell me: Who do you say that the Son of Man is?
|
|
|
|
|
RE: baptism in Jesus' name or Father, Son, Holy Ghost - 4/28/2008 7:44:56 PM
|
|
|
CurlyQ19
Posts: 25
Joined: 4/22/2008
Status: offline
|
quote:
Are you claiming that the disciples, who knew the scriptures very well, were ignorant of the name of the LORD?
Exodus 3:15
God, furthermore, said to Moses, "Thus you shall say to the sons of Israel, 'The LORD, the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you ' This is My name forever, and this is My memorial-name to all generations."
Are you saying that God lied, and that the LORD is not His name for all generations? Are you saying that God changed and decided His name was something different than what He said that it is?
here is an analogy, i am the brother of Lee i am the brother of Scott i and the brother of Rose, my name has never changed though it is still James! and i could go on an on about being the son of so and so the uncle of so and so etc. but my name has never changed!
so if Jesus is God,(son of God) that means the scripture would have to contradict itself because it already gave the name! would you agree or disagree that there are inner names of God? if you agree, what is the name of the Father the name of the Son and the name of the Holy Ghost?
obviously God has many names/attributes about him as read throughout the Bible, Mighty God, Prince of Peace, Healer, Redeemer, Emmanual, which means "God with us" etc. and his name is Jesus! but i can carry attributes just like that too! i am an athelete, musician, worker, etc. My name, though, is James! dont take me wrong i am not trying to compare mself to God because obviously no one is remotely close to that! but i am making an example that if i have attributes like this how much more can God have these attributes applied to him!
I dont know if i was clear enough about my opening post to start this thread, but what i mean by baptism is immersion of water! thats it! sorry if i have directed people in the wrong direction! my bad, forgive me!
|
|
|
|
|
RE: baptism in Jesus' name or Father, Son, Holy Ghost - 4/28/2008 7:51:18 PM
|
|
|
ta_mosquito
Posts: 10972
Joined: 3/31/2005
From: from MN, now in Ontario :D
Status: offline
|
So God's name isn't YHVH?
_____________________________
Tricia
"When tempted to fight fire with fire, remember that the fire department generally uses water." ~Unknown
|
|
|
|
|
RE: baptism in Jesus' name or Father, Son, Holy Ghost - 4/28/2008 7:54:04 PM
|
|
|
CurlyQ19
Posts: 25
Joined: 4/22/2008
Status: offline
|
before i forget can anyone show me where the disciples disobeyed Jesus because they baptized in Jesus name? or can anyone show me where there are examples of people being baptized in Father Son and Holy Ghost? so far no one has given me anything valid concerning this?
Reread post #1 if you haven't yet!
|
|
|
|
|
RE: baptism in Jesus' name or Father, Son, Holy Ghost - 4/28/2008 7:56:12 PM
|
|
|
CurlyQ19
Posts: 25
Joined: 4/22/2008
Status: offline
|
quote:
So God's name isn't YHVH?
i dont believe that i said it wasn't!
|
|
|
|
|
RE: baptism in Jesus' name or Father, Son, Holy Ghost - 4/28/2008 7:57:14 PM
|
|
|
ta_mosquito
Posts: 10972
Joined: 3/31/2005
From: from MN, now in Ontario :D
Status: offline
|
Well, you keep saying that God's name is Jesus, so I was checking.
_____________________________
Tricia
"When tempted to fight fire with fire, remember that the fire department generally uses water." ~Unknown
|
|
|
|
|
RE: baptism in Jesus' name or Father, Son, Holy Ghost - 4/29/2008 3:51:30 PM
|
|
|
abu_khomar
Posts: 101
Joined: 1/7/2008
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: ta_mosquito
Well, you keep saying that God's name is Jesus, so I was checking.
Is Jesus not the name of God? Does God have only One Name?
|
|
|
|
|
RE: baptism in Jesus' name or Father, Son, Holy Ghost - 4/29/2008 4:29:05 PM
|
|
|
ta_mosquito
Posts: 10972
Joined: 3/31/2005
From: from MN, now in Ontario :D
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: abu_khomar
quote:
ORIGINAL: ta_mosquito
Well, you keep saying that God's name is Jesus, so I was checking.
Is Jesus not the name of God? Does God have only One Name?
That's what I thought CurlyQ was implying.
_____________________________
Tricia
"When tempted to fight fire with fire, remember that the fire department generally uses water." ~Unknown
|
|
|
|
|
RE: baptism in Jesus' name or Father, Son, Holy Ghost - 4/29/2008 5:36:15 PM
|
|
|
figmentPez
Posts: 2611
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: TX
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: CurlyQ19
quote:
So God's name isn't YHVH?
i dont believe that i said it wasn't!
You said that the Apostles did not know it!
quote:
ORIGINAL: abu_khomar
Is Jesus not the name of God? Does God have only One Name?
Jesus is a name of God, but it is not THE name of God. God has only one name that He has revealed to be His memoral-name for all generations.
quote:
ORIGINAL: CurlyQ19
here is an analogy, i am the brother of Lee i am the brother of Scott i and the brother of Rose, my name has never changed though it is still James! and i could go on an on about being the son of so and so the uncle of so and so etc. but my name has never changed!
so if Jesus is God,(son of God) that means the scripture would have to contradict itself because it already gave the name! would you agree or disagree that there are inner names of God? if you agree, what is the name of the Father the name of the Son and the name of the Holy Ghost?
obviously God has many names/attributes about him as read throughout the Bible, Mighty God, Prince of Peace, Healer, Redeemer, Emmanual, which means "God with us" etc. and his name is Jesus! but i can carry attributes just like that too! i am an athelete, musician, worker, etc. My name, though, is James! dont take me wrong i am not trying to compare mself to God because obviously no one is remotely close to that! but i am making an example that if i have attributes like this how much more can God have these attributes applied to him!
First, on the name Jesus. Jesus is an English adaptation of a Latinized version of a Greek alteration of a Hebrew name that was probably a shortened version of a longer Hebrew name. Yeshua (a closer English version of the original Hebrew) means, roughly, "He Saves", "He will save" or "He is salvation". This is the same name translated as Joshua elsewhere in scripture. There is a longer version of the name (like Will is short for William), Yehoshua, which means "YHWH is salvation". So, in a very real sense, the name Jesus is a reference to the name YHWH.
The name of God, YHWH, is translated as LORD (all caps) in most English translations (and there are numerous reason for this, including that YHWH is translated into the Greek word for "lord" in NT quotations of OT scripture). YHWH is used over six thousand times in the OT. It is most certainly the name of God, and was most certainly known to the Apostles. There is a big difference between all the descriptive titles of the LORD, and His name as used in scripture.
You asked a question:
quote:
what is the name of the Father the name of the Son and the name of the Holy Ghost?
YHWH / LORD. This is God's memorial-name for all generations, and it is the name of the Father, it is the name of the Son, it is the name of the Holy Spirit. It is the name above all names. Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is called LORD multiple times in the NT.
_____________________________
I make this challenge to all Christians:
Read Daniel 7:13-14
And tell me: Who do you say that the Son of Man is?
|
|
|
|
|
RE: baptism in Jesus' name or Father, Son, Holy Ghost - 4/29/2008 6:27:22 PM
|
|
|
abu_khomar
Posts: 101
Joined: 1/7/2008
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: figmentPez
quote:
ORIGINAL: CurlyQ19
quote:
So God's name isn't YHVH?
i dont believe that i said it wasn't!
You said that the Apostles did not know it!
quote:
ORIGINAL: abu_khomar
Is Jesus not the name of God? Does God have only One Name?
Jesus is a name of God, but it is not THE name of God. God has only one name that He has revealed to be His memoral-name for all generations.
So you are saying that Jesus is more a....title, than a name?
|
|
|
|
|
RE: baptism in Jesus' name or Father, Son, Holy Ghost - 4/30/2008 2:01:48 AM
|
|
|
Ephesians4_32
Posts: 2278
Joined: 4/30/2005
From: The Crossroads of America
Status: offline
|
Jesus is the translated name of God the Son.
Matthew 1
21And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: baptism in Jesus' name or Father, Son, Holy Ghost - 4/30/2008 12:53:45 PM
|
|
|
Him4all
Posts: 417
Joined: 6/26/2007
From: Kansas
Status: offline
|
abu_khomar,
quote:
Is Jesus not the name of God? Does God have only One Name?
JOH 1:17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.
Jesus is the 'manifested in the flesh' name of the nature and character of the God of grace and truth. This is His revealed name to those of the Christian faith in the NT.
Jehovah is the manifested name/nature of the law giver and warring God, and is the God of Israel. This was not the manifested name of God to Abraham Issac and Jacob. They did not know God as lawgiver or war. They did not know the name or the nature of Jehovah.
EXO 6:2 And God spake unto Moses, and said unto him, I am the LORD/yahweh: 3 And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty/El Shaddai, but by my name JEHOVAH/Jehovah was I not known to them.
El Shadai is the name of God manifested to His creation before the law was given. It is also the feminine name/nature/character of God. It's derived from the Hebrew word Shad which means 'the breast of a woman'. The understanding of bible word etymologists couldn't handle that thought of a 'feminine God' and wouldn't go to the word of origin from which Shaddai was derived from.
When God's creation was in its infancy it was under the nurturing and mothering nature of His multifaceted Being (women rejoice!). Hence the mother name/nature of the Godhead. That same principle and nature exists in families today...mothers take care of the baby and breast feed them. But just like healthy families today in the later years of childrearing...When daddy comes home 'Here comes the LAW'. That aspect of the nature of god was manifested as Jehovah or Father God. It was the name/nature of law and war.
When Jesus appeared/manifested we were taught to not follow the Law and war but quite the contrary. We were told to love your enemy, turn the cheek, give your cloak, pay your taxes (No Boston tea party), when spoken ill against don't retaliate ect. ect. That nature is not the nature of Yahweh.
The problem with most Chisitains, and Jewish Israel today, is they are still serving their understanding of the nature of Jehovah and not the nature of Jesus. It was that mentality that birthed the bloodbaths of wars and the Crusades as well as church splits today. It is a battle I believe we all fight personally. I know no one who has put on the fullness of the stature of the image of Christ....yet.
When Jesus did what He heard/saw His Father say/do He was not listeneing, as a son, to the name El Shaddai or the name Jehovah...but as "a son of El Elyon...the 'most high God'. (Mar 5:7)" El Elyon is the name of the most high God dealing with a creation closing in on its call to maturity.
This is a brief synopsis of a very lengthy teaching and I'm not interested in debating each and every point with those who just want to argue from their POV. I hope you all understand. Just take it for what it's worth to you...be that in the trash, on the shelf, or into a place of meditation.
DR
_____________________________
Doctrine learned and not lived is lost.
Eyes closed to advice may still be open to example.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: baptism in Jesus' name or Father, Son, Holy Ghost - 5/3/2008 1:49:02 PM
|
|
|
figmentPez
Posts: 2611
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: TX
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Him4all
Jehovah is the manifested name/nature of the law giver and warring God, and is the God of Israel.
quote:
When Jesus appeared/manifested we were taught to not follow the Law and war but quite the contrary. We were told to love your enemy, turn the cheek, give your cloak, pay your taxes (No Boston tea party), when spoken ill against don't retaliate ect. ect. That nature is not the nature of Yahweh.
If Jesus is not Yahweh, then why is Jesus called LORD in the NT?
You are preaching heresy of the worst sort. The "jesus christ" you are teaching is just an idol, with a demon lurking behind it.
_____________________________
I make this challenge to all Christians:
Read Daniel 7:13-14
And tell me: Who do you say that the Son of Man is?
|
|
|
|
|
RE: baptism in Jesus' name or Father, Son, Holy Ghost - 5/3/2008 1:51:17 PM
|
|
|
figmentPez
Posts: 2611
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: TX
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: abu_khomar
So you are saying that Jesus is more a....title, than a name?
Without a clear definition of "title" and "name", it would be very hard to answer that question directly. Instead, let me expound on what I've already said.
First, note that "Jesus" in Greek is Iesous, and Jesus Christ isn't the only Iesous in scripture.
Lu 3:29
the son of *Joshua, the son of Eliezer, the son of Jorim, the son of Matthat, the son of Levi,
Ac 7:45
"And having received it in their turn, our fathers brought it in with *Joshua upon dispossessing the nations whom God drove out before our fathers, until the time of David."
Col 4:11
and also *Jesus who is called Justus; these are the only fellow workers for the kingdom of God who are from the circumcision; and they have proved to be an encouragement to me.
Heb 4:8
For if *Joshua had given them rest, He would not have spoken of another day after that.
Even Moses got more exclusivity in his name. I don't think there are any others known by the Hebrew Mosheh or the Greek Moseus (at least not according to the Lexicons at bible.crosswalk.com).
Contrast that with the name of the LORD, which God has declared to be his memorial-name for all generations. YHWH is used of the true God, and only of the true God. Furthermore, Jesus Christ is declared to be the LORD, and declares Himself to be the LORD. (See Heb 1 and Revelation 1 for a couple of examples.)
_____________________________
I make this challenge to all Christians:
Read Daniel 7:13-14
And tell me: Who do you say that the Son of Man is?
|
|
|
|
|
RE: baptism in Jesus' name or Father, Son, Holy Ghost - 5/6/2008 11:40:22 AM
|
|
|
LBolt
Posts: 693
Joined: 11/30/2007
Status: offline
|
Hey CurlyQ, Welcome to Crosswalk. Figment gave a really excellent answer. If you want to be technical Jesus is not His name, the Hebrew/ Aramaic would be Yeshua, Yahshua or Y'shua. "In the name of" is better understood as "in the authority of."
_____________________________
Wisdom is the principle thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all thy getting get understanding...she shall give to thine head an ornament of grace..---Proverbs 4:7,9
You mean there was grace in the Old Testament?!!!
|
|
|
|
|
RE: baptism in Jesus' name or Father, Son, Holy Ghost - 5/6/2008 5:59:33 PM
|
|
|
Him4all
Posts: 417
Joined: 6/26/2007
From: Kansas
Status: offline
|
Lbolt,
quote:
If you want to be technical Jesus is not His name, the Hebrew/ Aramaic would be Yeshua, Yahshua or Y'shua.
I agree with the spirit of what you're saying, but technically wouldn't you agree His name was/is Jesus in English too? I suppose the main point is this...anyone who thinks 'laying on of hands' requires the correct surname...with the correct dialect and the correct 'one' original language, for their prayer to work, will simply be robbed of life because they're following some law concerning pronunciation.
But you are 'right on' when you say that when used as "in the name of" it is talking about the authority/nature of that name.
For example baptizing 'in the name of Jesus Christ' as in Acts 8:12. In that case His proper surname isn't Christ either. It would be more accurate (I think?) to say "Jesus the Christ" as scripture does in Matt 16:20. The same is true of Lord Jesus...Lord isn't a name as much as it is a title, like doctor.
The true name of God isn't a noun as much as it is a verb in creation. The following verses are a perfect example. In them God tells Moses what His name is and it isn't LORD or Jehovah.
EXO 3:13-14 And Moses said unto God, Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What is his name? what shall I say unto them? 14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.
BTW, the name of Jesus isn't LORD/Yaweh either...His title was Lord/adonai in the OT.
PSA 110:1 The LORD/Yehovah said unto my Lord/Adonai, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.
The all caps word LORD is the tetragrammaton or the 'made up name' given by the Masoretes to the divine name YHWH which had four consonants and no vowels. So the Masoretes just gave it some vowels to pronounce it...so it isn't even the real name God gave, if you really think about it. Strong's say Jehovah is the Jewish national name of God...like I said at the beginning. And none of us is Jewish national after the Sspirit.
DR
DR
_____________________________
Doctrine learned and not lived is lost.
Eyes closed to advice may still be open to example.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: baptism in Jesus' name or Father, Son, Holy Ghost - 5/6/2008 9:18:28 PM
|
|
|
CurlyQ19
Posts: 25
Joined: 4/22/2008
Status: offline
|
LBolt
quote:
Hey CurlyQ, Welcome to Crosswalk. Figment gave a really excellent answer. If you want to be technical Jesus is not His name, the Hebrew/ Aramaic would be Yeshua, Yahshua or Y'shua. "In the name of" is better understood as "in the authority of."
i have a question than! Why did the apostles/disciples baptize in Jesus name than? according to you the disciples are disobeying, according to you!
|
|
|
|
|
Forum Tools
Printable Version
At least that what the people who are hung up on the 'flowing river' trip try to preach. But then people try to tell me they're cleaner than me because I like baths better than showers... 
You just can't make everyone happy. 
