RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley (Full Version)

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solarflare -> RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley (7/19/2008 1:03:24 PM)

quote:

I listend to and watched Bently saying this word again and again, it is a Bently-ism, like solarflare is a you-ism, he is describing in his own unique way and exclaiming about it, the power of the Holy SPirit touching someone.



You are making very weak excuses for someone you say you have not made up your mind about. What is really going on, is that you are having your own experiences challenged, are you not? That is what is really going on - you are starting to wonder about your own experiences.

Again, what you felt come over you - that strange sticky-sweet good all over feeling is demonic - it is NOT the Holy Spirit.



peacebringer -> RE: Florida HealingOutpouring-here we go again (7/19/2008 1:03:50 PM)

Bob Jones angels-Great Grace
found the link in my google bookmarks, so didn't have to dig it up again with too much work.



solarflare -> RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley (7/19/2008 1:06:53 PM)

quote:

re your comment on what i said about THE NAME of the L O R D, was not to impress you, it was to open up the scripture i was referring and the meaning of
"they cannot say that JESUS IS LORD" unless byt he HOLY SPIRIT, the meaning of this scripture is that they cannot understand nor have it revealed to them that JESUS IS L O R D , IE I DO NOT MEAN ONLY THE SON OF GOD THE ONE SENT TO EARTH, but that
JESUS IS GOD THE LORD ALMIGHTY, unless the Holy Spirit reveals it to them, and there is more to this announcing of Jesus as LORD, it is a person exclamation of one who has received the gospel good news and is understanding it and accepting it, it means that they understand
YAH' SHUAH, GOD THE LORD ALMIGHTY SAVES AND DELIVERS THEM, IT IS A PERSONAL FAITH STATEMENT OR EXCLAMATION, NOT JUST THE RECITING A PHRASE.


This has nothing to do with how I responded to you. How about the fact that you only quote half the verse? How about what I wrote about that scripture? How about that? It is not just what we say - it is our entire life that is the proof. And, we have alot of Biblical instruction as to how to prove whether or not something or someone is really from God - you cannot ignore all that and go with HALF a verse of scripture to prove that Bentley is not deceived. Bentley is deceived and deceivng thousands - but only because they do not love the truth.



dwtramm -> RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley (7/19/2008 1:14:48 PM)

I was the one who posted the video of Todd saying, "Father, the Son and Bam!" He does say it, deny it or not. I will post the video again, it is around the 30 second mark or so that it happens.

Whether he said it as the name of the Holy Spirit or to impart the power of the Holy Spirit on someone is immaterial. It is extrabiblical at best and unbiblical at worst.

Personally, I think that both sides of this debate, needs to really pray and study the word. This is not a game, that we play at some pool, or we go to experience some goosebumps and stuff like that. This is real serious business. It is frightening to me what is taking place all in the name of Jesus. And yes, I do think that those that oppose Lakeland (including myself) do need to be more responsible in our opposition. So if I have have been not been responsible, I apologize and repent.

However, I will not apologize and repent of exposing the extrabiblical things going on. Some days it doesn't bother me to severely, but days like today, it just makes me sick to my stomach. It breaks my heart and grieves me greatly at what is going on in the name of our Lord.

Pure blasphemy!!! is what it is, pure and simple. And if anyone wants to flame me for my position, let it happen. It is by His grace that I stand.


Anyway, here is the video again.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZnXMMp-0yG0



Also, here is a video that someone else posted, by David Wilkerson. May we have more believers whose heart is broken over all the nonsense done in our Lord's name.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgYtobeizJw



solarflare -> RE: Florida HealingOutpouring-here we go again (7/19/2008 1:15:56 PM)

quote:

jacked up


Where I come from, that expression has lewd sexual
connotations. I'll thank you to speak like the believer
you say you are. I have noticed that from time to time
you revert to expressions, that, shall we say, are not
exactly 'sanctified.'

Either you are particularly argumentative today, on a false
high, or you are incapable of true exegesis of the Scriptures.
Regardless, the verse you were provided with is exactly what
you say you want. It is proof that Satan does lying signs and
wonders - since healing is one of the signs that follow believers,
it would make sense that satan will imitate it. Even the Pharisees
and Scribes accused Jesus of healing and casting out devils
by Satan's power - Jeus did not deny Satan had that power -
he stated that if He was casting out demons by the finger of
God, then God was indeed manifesting his power through Him.

Can't help you, lbolm, if you cannot see that. Sorry.

Please, stop insulting me. I am starting to find you rude and
argumentative. I really don't have to answer you - I am being
polite and you are not.



solarflare -> RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley (7/19/2008 1:21:50 PM)

quote:

However, I will not apologize and repent of exposing the extrabiblical things going on. Some days it doesn't bother me to severely, but days like today, it just makes me sick to my stomach. It breaks my heart and grieves me greatly at what is going on in the name of our Lord.


Yes. And I have lived the extrabiblical things and I am always sick to my stomach when I really think about it. Then again, think how God must look upon this all, when He sent His only Son to die for us - and Bentley laughs and yells stupid things - and baptizes people without water.
Biblical baptism is by immersion - even Jesus was obedient and had Himself baptized by John, his cousin. The Son of God - think of it - but Bentley, that imposter, makes up his own way to do it and can't even get the name of the Holy Spirit out - good - because the Holy Spirit doesn't approve.



dwtramm -> RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley (7/19/2008 1:26:25 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: solarflare

quote:

However, I will not apologize and repent of exposing the extrabiblical things going on. Some days it doesn't bother me to severely, but days like today, it just makes me sick to my stomach. It breaks my heart and grieves me greatly at what is going on in the name of our Lord.


Yes. And I have lived the extrabiblical things and I am always sick to my stomach when I really think about it. Then again, think how God must look upon this all, when He sent His only Son to die for us - and Bentley laughs and yells stupid things - and baptizes people without water.
Biblical baptism is by immersion - even Jesus was obedient and had Himself baptized by John, his cousin. The Son of God - think of it - but Bentley, that imposter, makes up his own way to do it and can't even get the name of the Holy Spirit out - good - because the Holy Spirit doesn't approve.



I myself was caught up in these extrabiblical revival moves and that might be a part of my reaction quite honestly.

But what makes it worst is what you exactly said, Just how does our Heavenly Father feel about this stuff? How is Jesus exalted by this? It is a mockery of the Gospel, and of the Lord Himself[:(]



lbolm -> RE: Florida HealingOutpouring-here we go again (7/19/2008 1:27:03 PM)

quote:

Please, stop insulting me. I am starting to find you rude and
argumentative. I really don't have to answer you - I am being
polite and you are not.


And where I am from we have a saying, let's see, oh yeah, "isn't that like the pot calling the kettle back ".

It is impossible for you to know me or my "attitude" on a web site, and yes you are right " I really don't have to answer you".



solarflare -> RE: Florida HealingOutpouring-here we go again (7/19/2008 1:31:38 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: lbolm

quote:

Please, stop insulting me. I am starting to find you rude and
argumentative. I really don't have to answer you - I am being
polite and you are not.


And where I am from we have a saying, let's see, oh yeah, "isn't that like the pot calling the kettle back ".

It is impossible for you to know me or my "attitude" on a web site, and yes you are right " I really don't have to answer you".



lbolm, Jake, whoever, I have little patience for someone who plays these types of games. I have some excellent Scripture I am going to post with regards to lying signs and wonders.



lbolm -> RE: Florida HealingOutpouring-here we go again (7/19/2008 1:39:25 PM)

here is a link to the Matthew Henry commentary of Matthew 24:24

Just in case you are interested



lbolm -> RE: Florida HealingOutpouring-here we go again (7/19/2008 1:40:37 PM)

http://www.biblegateway.com/resources/commentaries/?action=getCommentaryText&cid=48&source=2&seq=i.47.24.2

There it is, I clicked too fast!



colliefan -> RE: Florida HealingOutpouring-here we go again (7/19/2008 1:44:16 PM)

Matt 24:23 - 28 (ESV) 23Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There he is!’ do not believe it. 24For false christs and false prophets will arise and perform great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect. 25See, I have told you beforehand. 26So, if they say to you, ‘Look, he is in the wilderness,’ do not go out. If they say, ‘Look, he is in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it. 27For as the lightning comes from the east and shines as far as the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. 28Wherever the corpse is, there the vultures will gather.

Mark 13:21 - 23 (ESV) 21And then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘Look, there he is!’ do not believe it. 22False christs and false prophets will arise and perform signs and wonders, to lead astray, if possible, the elect. 23But be on guard; I have told you all things beforehand.

2 Thess 2:9 - 12 (ESV) 9The coming of the lawless one is by the activity of Satan with all power and false signs and wonders, 10and with all wicked deception for those who are perishing, because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. 11Therefore God sends them a strong delusion, so that they may believe what is false, 12in order that all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Col 2:18 - 19 (ESV) 18Let no one disqualify you, insisting on asceticism and worship of angels, going on in detail about visions,£ puffed up without reason by his sensuous mind, 19and not holding fast to the Head, from whom the whole body, nourished and knit together through its joints and ligaments, grows with a growth that is from God.



lbolm -> RE: Florida HealingOutpouring-here we go again (7/19/2008 1:52:32 PM)

Concering the 2 Thess. verses given by colliefan, Henry's commentary really has a lot to say, especially at the end about "the son of perdition"



lbolm -> RE: Florida HealingOutpouring-here we go again (7/19/2008 1:53:43 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: lbolm

Concering the 2 Thess. verses given by colliefan, Henry's commentary really has a lot to say, especially at the end about "the son of perdition"

http://www.biblegateway.com/resources/commentaries/?action=getCommentaryText&cid=61&source=2&seq=i.60.2.2



solarflare -> RE: Florida HealingOutpouring-here we go again (7/19/2008 2:00:56 PM)

For those who clamor and say there are no scriptures that show that satan can heal - or even perform false signs and wonders I offer the following for your perusal. Take your time. They are not going anywhere, unlike Bentley who will be like the grass of the field while God's word, as always, remains and is available for those who love the Truth.


For if someone comes to you and preaches a Jesus other than the Jesus we preached, or if you RECEIVE a different spirit from the one you received, or a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it easily enough. II Cor. 11 4
Here it can be seen that even if someone has already accepted Jesus and received the Holy Spirit, they can still be open to accepting a lying spirit and a false Jesus.

Paul continues with his letter to the Corinthians along the same line and then, in v. 13, as follows: "For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, masquerading as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, FOR SATAN HIMSELF MASQUERADES AS AN ANGEL OF LIGHT. It is not surprising, then, if his servants masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve." v.13-15

So, apparently these deceivers do exist and Satan is himself a pretender - he masquerades as an angel of light - he, satan, pretends to be an angel from God. How much clearer can that be?

Some people use the signs and wonders as proof of Bentley's God-rating. Yup, they say, this guy Todd is right up there with Paul and the apostles. Yup, Todd sees angels - in fact they hang around him like birds chirping in his ears and soothing him with their wings. Pay attention, because I can only say this one way: Signs and wonders are not proof of a Godly ministry. Why? Because, as the Word of God teaches, Satan does the same thing!!! So, if Satan does the same thing, then, he must be healing and causing people to speak in tongues and falling over and all kinds of stuff. Why, I bet he can even have a fakir in India play with poisonous snakes without ill effects (although to be sure they die too).
So, if you are using the goings on at Bentley's meetings as 'proof' that
God is in the building, you need to stop, because the Bible teaches us that signs and wonders are not criteria for judging whether or not God is behind the man.

Matt. 24: 23-24 - in Jesus' own words: "At that time if anyone says to you, 'Look, here is the Christ! or, 'There he is!' do not believe it. For false Christs and false prophets will appear and PERFORM GREAT SIGNS AND MIRACLES to deceive even the elect - if that were possible."

Again, signs and wonders - which include healing, speaking in tongues and various other manifestations - are not how to judge whether or not something or someone is from God. Here, is Jesus Himself saying so. I know that will make some people very angry. Jesus' words do make some people very angry - back then, when he walked the earth, and even today. Why? Because it shows them up for what they are - Jesus' words reveal what is really in a persons heart.

Now, just to make it clear. I am not anti-spiritual gifts. I am anti- lying gifts and charlatans and false self-proclaimed healers and prophets.

It has occured to me that there may be an upswing in apparent 'real' healings or manifestations. Well, of course. BECAUSE that is what dumb dumbs are looking at for proof!!!!!!!!!!!!!! So, obey the word of God and use the Word of God - not signs and wonders - because, they may not be from God. If they are, the life of the individual who has these things following will be above reproach. You know, kind of like Jesus. They had to make lies up about Jesus to arrest him.

There are more scriptures, available to all with Bible in hand - as for myself, I am getting off this site for the time being.



solarflare -> RE: Florida HealingOutpouring-here we go again (7/19/2008 2:04:20 PM)

quote:

Concering the 2 Thess. verses given by colliefan, Henry's commentary really has a lot to say, especially at the end about "the son of perdition"


Now tell me you are not putting the words of Mr. Henry above what Scripture so plainly teaches? I just read his words, and I don't see where he is in disagreement with what I just wrote or anyone else. I guess you just don't understand him either..............or perhaps you think Jesus warning only applied to a specific time in history?



solarflare -> RE: Florida HealingOutpouring-here we go again (7/19/2008 2:17:13 PM)

quote:

Solarflare - I want to say thank you for sharing your past with us. I am so intriuged by what you have been through (it just amazes me that you learned by experience on this one). I thought of you last night when I flipped it to TB to see if he was on.


Hey - I am thinking and praying about writing more on what happened to me. I think I will write it in the 'blog' pages if I do and give a link from this thread. I think that would be more appropriate then posting here - it would be long anyway.

Thanks



solarflare -> RE: Florida HealingOutpouring-here we go again (7/19/2008 2:22:16 PM)

Well, I have to clear up something - I just started to watch the baptismal video again and the reason I thought water was not involved, was because the man of the hour is not in it - he is out side the pool - so, I had the wrong impression. So, people were in the water afterall, just not Todd............



solarflare -> RE: Florida HealingOutpouring-here we go again (7/19/2008 2:28:30 PM)

OK - just this one more - the annointing is in the water? The fire of God is in the water? Todd puts an annointing in the water by making a chhhhhh noice? I could go on and on............I have not even watched 10 of these videos..........it really only takes one.........to convince me I am not looking at God's annointed human here.



4ChristisLove -> RE: Florida HealingOutpouring-here we go again (7/19/2008 3:06:10 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: solarflare

quote:

Solarflare - I want to say thank you for sharing your past with us. I am so intriuged by what you have been through (it just amazes me that you learned by experience on this one). I thought of you last night when I flipped it to TB to see if he was on.


Hey - I am thinking and praying about writing more on what happened to me. I think I will write it in the 'blog' pages if I do and give a link from this thread. I think that would be more appropriate then posting here - it would be long anyway.

Thanks


Thank you Solarflare. I will be sure to read it! God Bless!

Hellochurch - The biggest things that are red flags with TB for me are that he said that God told him he was suppose to get people to believe in THE ANGEL and not Jesus. He is also linked to other false prophets and movements. That's a bad sign. He has kicked and punched people saying that God told him to do it. The list goes on and I would recommend (like the others) that you read through the thread before going to his defense.



earthless -> RE: Florida HealingOutpouring-here we go again (7/19/2008 3:22:22 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: hellochurch

I amwondering earthless if because i have diff. opinions than yours that yo might prefer me to go away somewhere else. ie the suggestion to find a word of faith thread, when I am not a word of faith person, but I believe that every word copeland spoke when teaching on a topic on tv that i heard, is exactly what the bible says, etc.etc.


'hellochurch' - I do not believe in censorship, so why would I care or want you to stop posting or post elsewhere? This is not my message board.

We have a one stop 'Word of Faith' thread and a one stop 'Kenneth Copeland' thread - please feel free to be the first person, ever, to show us all how Copeland's teachings have not been and are not false and heretical in light of Scripture.

The sheer amount of documentation (facts) that show he is a false teacher is beyond reproach. But please feel free to take a jab at it.



RJR_fan -> RE: Florida HealingOutpouring-here we go again (7/20/2008 9:35:30 AM)

quote:

The biggest things that are red flags with TB for me are that he said that God told him he was suppose to get people to believe in THE ANGEL and not Jesus.


I was just reading Acts 19 this morning, about the "vagabond Jews, exorcists," the seven sons of one Sceva. Apparently, there was sufficient market demand in first century Asia Minor to provide a livelihood for these folks.

It reminded me of Paul's statement that "the Greeks seek wisdom, and the Jews demand a sign." Apparently, the Jews had a reputation for being in touch with unseen forces. One Jewish magician, who went by the name of "Son of Jesus," was a "consultant" for the governor of Crete (or was it Cyprus? See Acts 13), for example.

Supply expands to fill demand. The lust for signs, which Jesus refused to cater to, generated a plethora of deceptive miracles 2,000 years ago -- and today.



Soxfan -> RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley (7/20/2008 7:05:53 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: hellochurch

dear soxfan;

I would just like a biblical reference please to support your statement that satan can heal.

Where in the bible is this listed in text, that satan healed someone?


Can satan perform signs and wonders?



colliefan -> RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley (7/20/2008 8:08:24 PM)

2 Thess 2:8 - 12 (HCSB) 8and then the lawless one will be revealed. The Lord Jesus will destroy him with the breath of His mouth£ and will bring him to nothing with the brightness of His coming. 9The coming ëof the lawless oneû is based on Satan’s working, with all kinds of false miracles, signs, and wonders,£ 10and with every unrighteous deception among those who are perishing. ëThey perishû because they did not accept the love of the truth in order to be saved.£ 11For this reason God sends them a strong delusion so that they will believe what is false, 12so that all will be condemned£—those who did not believe£ the truth but enjoyed unrighteousness.



earthless -> RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley (7/20/2008 8:50:42 PM)

miracles, signs, and wonders... based on the context of Scripture, of what the disciples and the apostles did.. it is more than proper to say that physical healing does fall into those categories.

Thus, Satan (and the demonic realm) can and will do just that. To deceive and confuse.



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