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RE: No comment. Well, maybe a short not - 5/16/2008 12:19:03 AM
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treasure_above
Posts: 13
Joined: 4/11/2008
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I haven't kept the ties together very well, thanks earthless, especially since I thought Airport was an A/G church! A lot of this 'laughter' actually came from Rodney Howard Brown. That's where the laughter stuff came from. I'd had holy laughter before, in private!!!! Long before these 'movements' I'd been so joyful because the Lord filled my mouth with laughter.
There is another church that got real tight w/Clark and lets put it this way, it ripped my home church apart. If I mentioned the name of the pastor, some would think I've stepped on the anointed one. I think he's a man like anyone else. I've known about him since I was a kid. It grates me every time I hear his name because he's become 'known'.
I've been to 2 services that I walked out of. The first one, was many years ago, in the beginning. I walked out crying because there was no order to the service. The last time, the associate got up, gave the alter call and prayed the following prayer with the new converts. "You now have the right to live happily ever after." That makes me sick!
< Message edited by treasure_above -- 5/16/2008 12:26:13 AM >
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RE: Florida outpouring - here we go again - 5/16/2008 10:51:25 AM
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lw9
Posts: 1198
Joined: 7/22/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
treasure_above: If I mentioned the name of the pastor, some would think I've stepped on the anointed one. I think he's a man like anyone else.
Think of it this way: They're all just men, and not one of them is above having their teachings and practices held up to scripture and compared. There is no special anointing since every Christian is anointed.
_____________________________
Aperture Science. We do what we must because we can.
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RE: Florida HealingOutpouring-here we go again - 5/16/2008 3:06:30 PM
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teclils
Posts: 33
Joined: 5/16/2008
Status: offline
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Hello I am new to the board....
I have read a lot of your posts concerning what is going on and I see a LOT of scripture posted...but I have not read anywhere where anyone has went to the LORD and asked for confirmation if this is of HIM or not...
granted Todd is different ....but just because we don't agree with how he does things and the whole Angel bit doesn't mean that GOD is not in it...
I mean even during the Welsh revival it was talking about as not of
GOD...so was Asuza ...I mean every time GOD moves people get uncomfortable because it is not what we are use to...
I am not saying Todd is or is not being used by GOD ....I am just stating that I am not hearing anyone saying they have gone before the LORD and received any kind of confirmation...
if this is NOT of GOD then we need to be in constant prayer that HOLY SPIRIT reveal it Clearly it IS or IS NOT of GOD...
Correct?
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RE: Florida HealingOutpouring-here we go again - 5/16/2008 3:47:15 PM
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wintery
Posts: 1093
Joined: 2/1/2007
From: nw alabama
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: teclils
Hello I am new to the board....
Hello and welcome.
quote:
ORIGINAL: teclils
granted Todd is different ....but just because we don't agree with how he does things and the whole Angel bit doesn't mean that GOD is not in it...
The "whole angel bit" is a pretty good-sized chunk and the over-emphasis on angels, whether they are a "power source" or something invisible to Todd's side as he has stated and I have previously posted, the "angel bit" even got the attention of Mr. Grady. Consider this:
Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshiping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,
(Colossians 2:18)
Look into the history of angelic influence on Branham and Jones at KC and understand that TB endorses these ministries.
quote:
ORIGINAL: teclils
I mean even during the Welsh revival it was talking about as not of
GOD...so was Asuza ...I mean every time GOD moves people get uncomfortable because it is not what we are use to...
Is there some kind of backchannel defense going from church leaders or members, or is something being said at the meetings at Lakeland, that people want to reject "a move of God"? That's not a defense..."of course it's of God, see those people rejecting it?".... Last night at a public function I attended I spoke with a woman who attends a church that has always bought into anything from Joyner/Bickle and I was sure they'd be into this Lakeland thing too. I won't give her profession but most would consider her to be smart and she and her husband, who is a deacon at the church where I formerly attended are my friends. She asked if I'd heard anything "new and positive". I told her it was good and positive that J. Lee Grady of Charisma had published an opinion which questioned the Lakeland meetings with Todd Bentley. "...the over-emphasis on angels...the bizarre manifestations...." and at that point she interrupted with "Now, you wouldn't hold a man's tattoo's against him, would you?"
A smart lady, but why do we keep seeing this, it's been posted here a couple of times. I haven't said anything about it because I seriously doubt that TB's body art is leading anyone away from God. It's the meetings, it's trying to pass around an apparent force he calls "the anointing" which runs into Scriptures regarding gentleness and self-control and makes me think of this:
Daniel 11:38 And to the god of strongholds, on his station, he giveth honour; yea, to a god whom his fathers knew not he giveth honour, with gold, and with silver, and with precious stone, and with desirable things. --Young's Literal Translation
The king of the North will worship power and strength, which his ancestors did not worship. He will honor the god of power with gold and silver, expensive jewels and gifts. Daniel 11:38 New Century Version
But instead, he will honor the god of strongholds; with gold, silver, precious stones and other costly things he will honor a god unknown to his ancestors. Daniel 11:38 The Complete Jewish Bible
But in his estate shall he honour the God of forces: and a god whom his fathers knew not shall he honour with gold, and silver, and with precious stones, and pleasant things. Daniel 11:38 King James Version
Have at me for my application of this verse, but I don't like seeing someone treat "the anointing" like a force. Weird also how visions of angels turning guts to gold and supposed teeth turning to gold are showing up here as well. BTW the previously mentioned Emma-O, god of Japanese Buddhist hell, is said to live in a castle of gold, silver and precious stones.
=======wintery.
< Message edited by wintery -- 5/16/2008 3:53:33 PM >
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RE: Florida HealingOutpouring-here we go again - 5/16/2008 3:52:08 PM
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colliefan
Posts: 2196
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Raleigh, NC
Status: online
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quote:
if this is NOT of GOD then we need to be in constant prayer that HOLY SPIRIT reveal it Clearly it IS or IS NOT of GOD...
The Scriptures were inspired of the Holy Spirit. They reveal this movement is not of God. What more confirmation is needed?
I noticed last night there were numbers of empty seats in the arena. I hope people are getting their full of this circus.
_____________________________
The grace of God is infinite and eternal. As it had no beginning, so it can have no end, and being an attribute of God, it is as boundless as infinitude.
A. W. Tozer (1897–1963)
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RE: Florida HealingOutpouring-here we go again - 5/16/2008 4:43:02 PM
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teclils
Posts: 33
Joined: 5/16/2008
Status: offline
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I hear what your saying....but no one has said if they have submitted it to the LORD...you can quote scripture till your blue in the face...Satan knows scripture...
what is the LORD saying??
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RE: Florida HealingOutpouring-here we go again - 5/16/2008 4:53:27 PM
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StephK
Posts: 1820
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Southwest Louisiana
Status: offline
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The Lord speaks to us through his Word. Satan twisted what the Word said.
_____________________________
Stephanie
Religion has accepted the monstrous heresy that noise, size, activity and bluster make a man dear to God. To a people caught in the tempest God says, `Be still, and know that I am God.' ~AW Tozer
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RE: Florida HealingOutpouring-here we go again - 5/16/2008 4:56:37 PM
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teclils
Posts: 33
Joined: 5/16/2008
Status: offline
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yes I agree with that...but what is HE saying to y'all
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RE: Florida HealingOutpouring-here we go again - 5/16/2008 5:02:39 PM
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StephK
Posts: 1820
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Southwest Louisiana
Status: offline
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Based on the scripture posted the "revival" in Florida isn't based on sound doctrine.
_____________________________
Stephanie
Religion has accepted the monstrous heresy that noise, size, activity and bluster make a man dear to God. To a people caught in the tempest God says, `Be still, and know that I am God.' ~AW Tozer
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RE: Florida HealingOutpouring-here we go again - 5/16/2008 6:28:27 PM
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earthless
Posts: 4964
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: where bbq pigeons roast....
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: teclils
yes I agree with that...but what is HE saying to y'all
He (God) is saying this is not of Him.
_____________________________
Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: Florida HealingOutpouring-here we go again - 5/16/2008 8:28:30 PM
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rlj
Posts: 1706
Joined: 4/14/2005
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quote:
He (God) is saying this is not of Him.
He also said the quicker 1,000 people send me $1,000 the quicker he'll end this fake revival.
_____________________________
-Roger
1 Thess 5:20 do not treat prophecies with contempt. 21 Test everything. Hold on to the good. (NIV)
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RE: Florida HealingOutpouring-here we go again - 5/17/2008 11:09:37 AM
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itsnotwhatuthink
Posts: 111
Joined: 3/19/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: teclils
I hear what your saying....but no one has said if they have submitted it to the LORD...you can quote scripture till your blue in the face...Satan knows scripture...
what is the LORD saying??
Hey, what has He said to you?
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RE: Florida HealingOutpouring-here we go again - 5/17/2008 11:16:06 AM
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wintery
Posts: 1093
Joined: 2/1/2007
From: nw alabama
Status: offline
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From the Strader update put out yesterday:
quote:
Todd declares: I can battle the enemy in every country from this little stage in Lakeland, Florida!
...my "hero"....
quote:
I heard the Lord say, tonight, WE ARE GOING TO PULL DOWN STRONGHOLDS!!!
I feel an authority I haven’t felt in years… to PULL DOWN STRONGHOLDS…
I hadn't seen this when I posted Daniel 11:38 yesterday--strongholds indeed. A lot of talk about power, authority, strongholds, angels, gold and miracles gets people excited. I post links to these so you can read the "miracles" for yourself, but to me, somebody with knee surgery jumping, sciatic nerve people bending over, and a smoker turning in her smokes is very much like reading that an obese man turned in his donut, old people were square dancing while a blind man ran around the stage.
It may be exciting but it a massive revival? No! Is it really miraculous healing? It is what it is...a Benny Hinn, Kuhlman, Branham type of show, where some may report healings and a lot of false things are said.
quote:
Luke 10:19 says… I’ve given you power!!!
You cast out demons… you pull down principality!!!
Luke 10:20 says... "Nevertheless, do not rejoice in this, that the spirits are subject to you, but rejoice that your names are written in heaven."
It's more important to be in right relationship to God. Are you going to argue with Jesus? In context Luke 10:19 was spoken to the 70 upon return from the mission Christ sent them on. The question is not whether it applies to us, but does it apply to a man on a stage in Lakeland who says he can "battle the enemy in every country from this little stage".
Now there's a choice of words..."this little stage". Take an advertising class and learn how to divide what's being said from what's being meant. "this little stage" mentally associates immediately with an underdog...what happened to the authority? He's an "underdog" with "authority". Also "the brave little toaster" comes to mind and "the little train that could"...("I think I can, I think I can").
Getting back to the verse in context:
Luke 10:17
And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through thy name.
God answers prayers, and the name of Jesus is above every name:
Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:
(Ephesians 1:21)
So it should not surprise that when the name of Jesus is spoken that a believing, praying saint could receive something from God even in Lakeland.
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RE: Florida HealingOutpouring-here we go again - 5/17/2008 2:12:41 PM
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rlj
Posts: 1706
Joined: 4/14/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
I feel an authority I haven’t felt in years… to PULL DOWN STRONGHOLDS…
I don't feel the authority but myself and every other believer have this promise which is greater then any "feeling":
quote:
2 Corinthians 10: 3 For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh:
4 (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds;)
5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;
Now I will just go to the mailbox and await all that money. ; )
_____________________________
-Roger
1 Thess 5:20 do not treat prophecies with contempt. 21 Test everything. Hold on to the good. (NIV)
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RE: No comment. Well, maybe a short not - 5/18/2008 9:24:55 AM
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pray4all
Posts: 345
Joined: 4/21/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 2shaye
I've been reading this thread each day with much interest. Some at my church have recommended this guy and that has me confused. Dh just briefly looked around on his site and didn't see the big deal.
I am sincerely seeking. I'm not a hit and run poster, as you can tell by my post count. I grew up in the Conservative Baptist Church, then within the past few years have been attending an AG church. I've been spiritually growing and growing like never before and I'm excited about my relationship with Christ. He is bringing to light many things which I never thought were sins and I'm slowly dealing with each new "thing". I love my pastor and my church. At first, I thought they did some pretty whacky things, but since I know the people now, I don't think they are quite so whacky.
And now this. I don't agree with a lot of you, and that's okay. I'm not sure about this Bentley guy. That's just where I'm at right now. I've hesitated posting because I didn't have the courage to go against the main flow of this conversation. But you guys seem like a gentle bunch...... I must say, though, it's kinda hard to learn from the sarcasm. I much prefer the gentleness of some of the posters - thank you for that.
One thing I'd like to ask those of you who are more on the conservative side - what does "revival" look like to you?
Thanks for listening.
greetings
we just got back from lakeland had the blessing of being able to spend about 3 days in service down there, and I must add it was a blessing to be around thousands of other christians, all in unity praising and worshipping Jesus with all that we are. the doors opened around 5 pm, worship started, standing room only up front, we didn't just sing 3 songs and quit, we keept going, worshiping Jesus with all our heart, people from around the states, around the globe, standing and worshiping our Lord with all our hearts, for hours on end, such a blessing to have gone. God bless everyone here
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RE: Florida HealingOutpouring-here we go again - 5/18/2008 9:30:38 AM
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pray4all
Posts: 345
Joined: 4/21/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: colliefan
quote:
if this is NOT of GOD then we need to be in constant prayer that HOLY SPIRIT reveal it Clearly it IS or IS NOT of GOD...
The Scriptures were inspired of the Holy Spirit. They reveal this movement is not of God. What more confirmation is needed?
I noticed last night there were numbers of empty seats in the arena. I hope people are getting their full of this circus.
believe you may be refering to the night of the 14th, we were there, granted every seat was not taking, but there were thousands from around the globe, the night of the 15th, there were more in attendance, alot of seats look empty also as it is standing room only at the front for worship, believe me i have never seen so many christians in unity under one roof praising our Lord, it was a blessing to be there
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RE: Florida HealingOutpouring-here we go again - 5/18/2008 12:25:43 PM
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csl7037
Posts: 684
Joined: 3/24/2008
Status: offline
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The lady who had nursery duty this morning with me was telling me and another lady they had gone last week. She said her son's friend was healed of "depression" - maybe she was (if she was it was HER faith, not "BAM") - or maybe it was the music. Regardless, I was able to very briefly caution her and explain a little about Angel Emma and we talked a bit about Benny Hinn, both of us being familiar with him in the early days and being able to contrast when ministry glorifies God and when it becomes about the man. She did say there were a couple of things he said that were checked in her spirit so that was good. I'm just concerned that so many are taking this at face value and not being discerning enough to know there's so much more going on here.
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RE: Florida HealingOutpouring-here we go again - 5/18/2008 12:30:35 PM
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pray4all
Posts: 345
Joined: 4/21/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: teclils
Hello I am new to the board....
I have read a lot of your posts concerning what is going on and I see a LOT of scripture posted...but I have not read anywhere where anyone has went to the LORD and asked for confirmation if this is of HIM or not...
granted Todd is different ....but just because we don't agree with how he does things and the whole Angel bit doesn't mean that GOD is not in it...
I mean even during the Welsh revival it was talking about as not of
GOD...so was Asuza ...I mean every time GOD moves people get uncomfortable because it is not what we are use to...
I am not saying Todd is or is not being used by GOD ....I am just stating that I am not hearing anyone saying they have gone before the LORD and received any kind of confirmation...
if this is NOT of GOD then we need to be in constant prayer that HOLY SPIRIT reveal it Clearly it IS or IS NOT of GOD...
Correct?
in all honesty most here probably will not take it to the Lord in prayer, all of these threads are not about seeking the Lord period. they are about putting God into our little boxes, our denominational diffrences, and God help us if we can't see the truth, that we are all members of the body of Christ. most of these threads are carnality period, putting the great I AM into our little boxes, shame on us. we need to repent. I love God he is so good, his ways are so above ours, I pray he raises up thousands of Tod Bentleys, just to show us that he is not gonna jump through our hoops, and denominational ra-ra. God bless each one of you with his grace and peace and joy in the Holy Ghost
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RE: Florida HealingOutpouring-here we go again - 5/18/2008 12:44:05 PM
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rlj
Posts: 1706
Joined: 4/14/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
I pray he raises up thousands of Tod Bentleys, just to show us that he is not gonna jump through our hoops, and denominational ra-ra.
None of the things Bentley says or does that are off bother you in the least?
_____________________________
-Roger
1 Thess 5:20 do not treat prophecies with contempt. 21 Test everything. Hold on to the good. (NIV)
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RE: Florida HealingOutpouring-here we go again - 5/18/2008 1:04:55 PM
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pray4all
Posts: 345
Joined: 4/21/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rlj
quote:
I pray he raises up thousands of Tod Bentleys, just to show us that he is not gonna jump through our hoops, and denominational ra-ra.
None of the things Bentley says or does that are off bother you in the least?
what bothers me is christians attacking christians
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RE: Florida HealingOutpouring-here we go again - 5/18/2008 1:06:15 PM
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StephK
Posts: 1820
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Southwest Louisiana
Status: offline
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It's the false teaching that is being addressed.
_____________________________
Stephanie
Religion has accepted the monstrous heresy that noise, size, activity and bluster make a man dear to God. To a people caught in the tempest God says, `Be still, and know that I am God.' ~AW Tozer
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RE: No comment. Well, maybe a short not - 5/18/2008 1:19:08 PM
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csl7037
Posts: 684
Joined: 3/24/2008
Status: offline
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When I pray for discernment, He invariably says "Read your Bible!" Why are we so consumed by finding out what God is saying when we haven't even bothered to look at what He already SAID? There's a lot of scripture being injected into this discussion because that's what it's for! Why are people bothered by that but not by the total lack of any scripture really being used by Todd Bentley.
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RE: No comment. Well, maybe a short not - 5/18/2008 1:52:30 PM
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pray4all
Posts: 345
Joined: 4/21/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: csl7037
When I pray for discernment, He invariably says "Read your Bible!" Why are we so consumed by finding out what God is saying when we haven't even bothered to look at what He already SAID? There's a lot of scripture being injected into this discussion because that's what it's for! Why are people bothered by that but not by the total lack of any scripture really being used by Todd Bentley.
one thing i did notice in the 3 days at lakeland, there was hundreds of pastors in attendance, the pastors lined up went from front to back atleast 4 wide, I'm sure they read the word, within the last year i have personally wore a Bible out, the word I get from the Lord is "feed his sheep", he didn't say read more Bible, because I already read.
I think what most people here do not realize concerning lakeland, just about everyone going is already a christian, coming in from around the world, in unity, praising Jesus, totaly in Love with the Lord. before we can throw stones at them, we need to honestly ask ourselves do we really Love God with all that we are??? and i mean really get serious about it and examine ourselves, stop playing church games.
honestly we drove 22 hours there and 22 hours back straight thru just be to around other christians that love the Lord with there all, and we praised our Lord with our all, in unity. most american christians won't drive down the block to go to church unless it has got ac and plush carpet etc. etc.
I've got such a sweet peace, no one can take it.
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