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FurGodWurLivin -> RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley (11/17/2009 3:05:12 AM)
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Just as easy as it is to ignore the text and context of Holy Writ. A rather bold statement that actually says absolutely nothing of any real substance. Are congratulations in order?quote:
pretty sure I only mentionned the Bentley. You mean until you start saying things like... quote:
I realize that there are those who will hotly disagree and believe that the above is close to blasphemy. ... since I am the only one really disagreeing with the common opinion here, you are either referring to me or to the faceless masses. So which is it? Are you saying that I am worshipping Todd Bentley's "gifting", or are you making assumptions about the crowd of people that "obviously must"?quote:
Please understand that this is my final address to your attempt to get me to pay attention ... I only write as you obviously cared about what I wrote and took it to heart. Even tho I was NOT addressing you. So you're polemic was addressed to...? The real question that is being left hanging here, is that unless you are responding to something I said in your above post, what was the point of saying it? quote:
Obviousely you don't...
Matthew One liners impress me not...quote:
And why, pray tell, should Solarflare be solely answering to you and your 'questions..?' Sir... if you were to read a thread such as the "I need information about IHOP-KC and Mike Bickle!" thread, you will find that if I were to outright ignore an objection, it would be focused on as proof of the "rampant falsehood" of the doctrine being argued against. So here, your logic is that objections against the commonly held opinions do not have to be answered because they are objecting to the common opinion... however, the turnabout does not seem to also be true. My point is that there is something phony with the premise of this entire discussion, and you aren't even willing to consider it.quote:
Thanks for posting the youtube vids. If there is anyone more interested here's a link to the youtube "Todd Bentley" vids. It's not like this deceiver hasn't been well documented, there are 3 pages of vids exposing this guy. And with all the documentation of harm (including physical assaults by this guy) people still want to defend him (unbelievable). Digrieze, you have missed my point. I have disagreements with Todd Bentley. I don't agree with him on a fair bit. I am not interested in defending him and proving him to be an apostle. I am only interested in why it seems impossible to carry any kind of real love for someone that we disagree with. I am not denying that Todd Bentley has issues. What I am trying to get attention to is the sheer ludicrousness (and unbiblicality) of the zeal in "exposing a documented false teacher". Were to go over the local pastors of everyone here with the same standard we are hoisting for Todd Bentley, we would be bound to find something that would disqualify every last one of them from the ministry- whether that be preaching Neo-Platonism, or emotionally neglecting their children. quote:
Todd is definitely(sp) no Saul of Tarsus, and will never attain the position that Paul the Apostle did. That is a hefty statement that bears discussion. Saying that Todd Bentley is "definitely" no Saul of Tarsus is actually a cynical statement of judgment that bears no resemblance to reality of any kind. I'll go so far as to say that Todd's failures actually make him a more likely candidate for a remarkable turnaround if he is sincere before God... ain't grace awesome?
I can't look at a Satanist and proclaim that they will never become a pastor. Why? Because God works in mysterious ways. I'm sure the early church looked as Saul and said that he had no hope of finding salvation because of his persecution against the church... and yet, that is the man who penned 3/4 of the New Testament. Saul was not just persecuting the church... Saul was persecuting Jesus himself. Then we say that Todd Bentley has no hope of anything because he has some wonky doctrine? How cynical have we really become?quote:
Todd has more than likely read the Bible, but chooses to ignore its warnings, and its Truth How do you know that he is ignoring anything? Is it because your understanding of the specific warnings and truth that you are referencing are so abundantly clear that someone would have to be a fool to not know them? I have a revelation for you... people who are fully convinced in the other direction feel the exact same way.quote:
he is cheating and conning people left and right and knows he is doing just that. You know what, you are going to have to prove that statement before it is actually valid. I can start an empiric statement with "Well, obviously..." but until I tell you why it is obvious, it is not obvious. That is one of those phrases we use to make our opinions carry more weight, but when they get pushed they are proven to merely be top-heavy.quote:
If he truly had the Holy Spirit in him he would not be doing the things he is doing. So how does that square with Peter's double life depending on whether he was around Jews or around Gentiles? Having the Holy Spirit does not mean that you suddenly stop sinning and become perfect... just ask the disciples. quote:
If he did truly repent he would show it in his life, with who he chose to hang around with, and make reparations for his wrongdoings. So... if he "truly repented" he would renounce all of his associations with Rick Joyner, Peter Wagner, Dutch Sheets and the rest, he would give back all the "millions of dollars he stole from the innocent people he deceived", and then what? I think the person who has had the most honor in this entire situation is Rick Joyner. When there was a massive problem that came to light, Joyner actually pulled Bentley out of the public sphere and has been working on both counseling and mentoring. Since that is the definition of one generation ministering to the next, it is actually Biblically accurate. I find that most of the time people make statements such as this one about what the "true fruit of repentance" would be, they are expecting something that is really not possible because it justifies feeling self-righteous.quote:
It's all about 'him' to Todd, not 'Him' who it should be Once again, easy to say... impossible to prove. But then again, I'm used to hearing that from the Western Church.quote:
For what it is worth, I too know what, FurGodWurLivin, is trying to say and accomplish in his posts ... which, in your eyes is what, exactly?quote:
although as a Christian, and as a pastor, I have a duty and responsibility to let people know who and what this Bently guy is ~ a charlaten & fruad. This is the first thing that I will have had the pleasure of even slightly agreeing with in this discussion.
Yes, as a pastor, you have a responsibility to your congregation to inform them of false doctrine and preach true theology. You have no responsibility of any kind to single out Todd Bentley as the embodiment of evil... because he is your brother in Christ. Love him or hate him, this is your spiritual brother. quote:
If my own pastor turned into a Bentley (sp) follower or started acting like him, you bet I'd be one of the first to call him out on it. I wouldn't be a very good Christian father (in the mentoring spiritual sense) if I didn't. A) But I can almost guarantee that you would make at least a half-hearted attempt to deal with that situation with your pastor before starting a mutiny. If not, then I seriously wouldn't be able to trust you in my church. Yet we wonder why we have so many different denominations... If this problem were with your local pastor, yes, you probably would call him on it. But you would do so in the proper context-- ie, a meeting with him. You wouldn't (I hope) go around to all the different members and elders of the church and tell them "can you believe what the pastor said? You know, I heard Todd Bentley say the exact same thing in Lakeland..." The reason being? That is gossip!
B) Since when are you your pastor's Spiritual Father? Or Todd Bentley's, for that matter? Simply put, my question is... Who made you the judge, jury, and executioner of all things ministerial? Too often it seems that we forget that the church is not ours, but God's. The sheep are busy hunting around for wolves in the sheep pen because we don't trust the Shepherd to protect us. If, rather than hunting down the people they disagreed with, the American church was to have spent the last 50 years focusing on orthodox Christology, I can almost guarantee you that guys like Jesus de Miranda who are actually leading church members into apostasy would not have the kind of influence they do. I can also wager a guess that guys like Todd Bentley who have some wonky doctrine would actually be much more firm in orthodox theology, thus eliminating the need for discussions like this. So the question is... where is your focus? The sheep with a wild idea or the Shepherd?
Adam
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