10 yr old daughter (Full Version)

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deliveredarling -> 10 yr old daughter (5/10/2008 9:25:33 PM)

What do you do with a 10 yr old girl who refuses to keep her room clean. She prefers to live in a pigsty. I have done everything i could possibly think of. Any suggestions? I am ready to bring in the trash can and dump all but a few sets of clothes and everything else must go. They can't mess something up if they don't have anything right? I'm a little frustrated right now and would rather rant and rave here than at her.[:@]



pbaribeault -> RE: 10 yr old daughter (5/10/2008 9:40:06 PM)

My first idea (given your 'rant and rave' kind of state of mind) is that this is a really good time for you to find out why it bothers you... Not that I mean it shouldn't bother you, just that you should find out the core of your frustration before you proceed.

Are you seeing this as some kind of disrespect? Ingratitude? Defiance? Are you uncomfortable with messy surroundings in general? Do you consider cleanliness as a point of pride? Is she intentionally 'bucking the system'? Do you feel somehow out-of-control or incapable in your parenting position? Was there ever a messy time in your life? When did staying tidy begin to matter to you, and why?

Then, answer this question, clearly and in detail, based on your own reasons (because there are lots of answers, but you need to know yours)... Why, exactly, should a little girl care enough to keep her room clean?

Once you've figured that out, I'll bet your resolution will be only a step away.



creationtalk -> RE: 10 yr old daughter (5/10/2008 10:05:46 PM)

I guess if it were me and she was the only one in the room, I'd close the door and leave it. As long as her stuff stayed in her room and the door could be closed, I wouldn't worry about it.

Of course, the flip side is I would not enter the room to pick up dirty clothes or put away clean clothes, etc. So if she wanted clean clothes, she would have to bring the clothes out of the room to a hamper...same with other stuff. If she left something outside of the room, then I would put it in a box until her bedtime that night...then (depending on what it is) get rid of it because I would not enter the room to put it back. I'd also not allow her to have guests unless the room was presentable.

On suggestion on getting the room cleaned...if you send her up to clean the room and she comes in and there is so much it's overwhelming, she might not even start because it's too much. Try sending her in to put away the books. Or cleaning a small area by the door or the bed. Once that is done, she can stop cleaning. I've done this with my son and it works pretty well. We also have timed cleaning...we set the timer and see who can make the most progress in cleaning their area in 10 or 15 minutes.



garsyt -> RE: 10 yr old daughter (5/10/2008 10:34:27 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: creationtalk

I guess if it were me and she was the only one in the room, I'd close the door and leave it. As long as her stuff stayed in her room and the door could be closed, I wouldn't worry about it.

Of course, the flip side is I would not enter the room to pick up dirty clothes or put away clean clothes, etc. So if she wanted clean clothes, she would have to bring the clothes out of the room to a hamper...same with other stuff. If she left something outside of the room, then I would put it in a box until her bedtime that night...then (depending on what it is) get rid of it because I would not enter the room to put it back. I'd also not allow her to have guests unless the room was presentable.

On suggestion on getting the room cleaned...if you send her up to clean the room and she comes in and there is so much it's overwhelming, she might not even start because it's too much. Try sending her in to put away the books. Or cleaning a small area by the door or the bed. Once that is done, she can stop cleaning. I've done this with my son and it works pretty well. We also have timed cleaning...we set the timer and see who can make the most progress in cleaning their area in 10 or 15 minutes.


I have 7 and 10 year old girls who share a bedroom and neither one of them really cares to keep a clean room - BUT I take the same stand. The door to their room is closed all the time (Mostly because the gerbils live in that room and we don't want the cat getting them.) I DON"T pick up for them. The only time I enter the room is at bedtime to tuck in and read to them. At that time I ask them to make sure their dirty laundry is in the hall hamper and their clean clothes are in their drawers. I have a box that I have used for YEARS that various items of all my children have resided for weeks sometimes and items that end up in that box are mine til they "pay" for them, either in money or extra chores OR cleaning their bedroom. My dd would rather pay money for her items or do extra chores then clean her room. Neither of my girls are allowed visitors until their room is somewhat presentable. Really if my girls would pick up their books, slip the dolls into the doll chest and pick up the art supplies their room would look pretty decent!

For my girls - Often times what it takes is ME sitting in the bedroom with them while they clean. As long as I am there it will get done. IF I'm not there the older ends up getting very bossy with they younger girl. Typically tho if I sit in the room with them they can get things done within an hour.

Blessings,

Garsy



deliveredarling -> RE: 10 yr old daughter (5/10/2008 10:51:30 PM)

It bothers me because it is unacceptable for one. To find empty food containers (she's not even allowed to eat in her room), tons of clothes stuffed in drawers, under the bed, anywhere and everywhere...... Trash is the same way. It's unhealthy. I do keep her door closed because I can't stand the sight of it. She does this to every room she walks into. Her stuff follows her. My car, after she haas been in it, ends up looking like her room. I guess it is a disrespect thing. She doesn't care about her stuff enough to take care of it. She has the coolest room a girl could want, the latest stuff.... and could care less. However, we did put a stop to any new stuff before Christmas arrived. We felt like if she wasn't going to take care of the stuff she already has, then we don't need to throw any more money away right now. I'm not talking about essentials, just the wants. It kills me to see her clothes wadded up, stained, stuffed..... She's just a beautiful child.....with a very nasty room.
You all have made some very good suggestions. I really like the one about breaking it down into small jobs. I haven't tried that one yet. She is also ADHD. I think that is a very common characteristic with them. We don't do the meds anymore, we just practice repetitious self discipline. However, it's not working in the room department. Other areas I have seen great improvement. Thank you all for your input.



Jenny-Fair -> RE: 10 yr old daughter (5/10/2008 10:55:55 PM)

I would suggest that you read Sandra Felton's book, Messie No More, to help you understand why your daughter is the way she is. I know it was of great help to me.

I would also suggest that you leave her alone about it, as long as it stays within her own bedroom and does not pose a danger to anyone else (ie, can't have stuff against a heater, that sort of thing).



Brandy -> RE: 10 yr old daughter (5/11/2008 12:39:52 AM)

My mother let me live in my room with 3 sets of clothes and my school books and bed. I could not keep it clean, and not shiny spotless but pigsty like you are describing. She emptied it completely and I earned back small amounts of things at a manageagle pace until I had reclaimed my things.

Granted I didn't care for about 3 weeks but it did work.

After I earned it all back we had rules, she would monitor my cleaning to make sure I maintained a level of cleanliness. She also broke it down into manageable chunks of cleaning.

If she has soo much stuff that it's pouring out of drawers she needs to downsize. Big time. There's no reason a 10 year old should need that much stuff.

I also was not allowed to track my filth and clutter outside of my room. Ever. I would lose the privalege of leaving my room if I could not co-operate.

10 is a good time to start really instilling clean behaviors and decent levels of acceptable clutter. I am a messy person by nature but it's not acceptable to live in filth.



manda59 -> RE: 10 yr old daughter (5/11/2008 4:09:53 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: deliveredarling
To find empty food containers (she's not even allowed to eat in her room),



Just wondered when she does this then? (ie how come you don't know at the time?)



deliveredarling -> RE: 10 yr old daughter (5/11/2008 6:43:08 AM)

I am gathering that she sneaks out at night or waits until we are not looking. She blamed these containers on her friend, when she spent the night. This all started because we were looking for her class t-shirt. She needs to wear it for a field trip. She couldn't find it for track and field day, she thought it was at a friends house...Now she needs it for a field trip.

As far as stuff goes, she has a lot of clothes, but I have thrown out the majority of her things because the were broken beyond repair or she left them outside of her room and didn't "remember" to put them away.

She is a junk collector. I want her to have all the latest and greatest things, but at this point to buy her anything is just a waste of money. It's just ridiculous to me to see brand new things left outside in the rain or wadded up on the floor to be stepped on without a care in the world.

Her room gets like this because when she "cleans", everything on the floor gets stuffed in her drawers under her bed and in her closet.

For the most part I leave her to her room,but it's times like these when she needs to find something and can't that really get me going.



pbaribeault -> RE: 10 yr old daughter (5/11/2008 8:55:30 AM)

It seems to me that you can't have it both ways.

If her behaviour is unacceptable, you have to do the standard parenting plan thing and provide her with both the skills and the incentive to manage this area of her life well.

(These plans are what the other posters are providing you - but as you choose from the suggestions and make your own plan, remember that you must do 2 parts - BOTH the teaching AND the consequences.)

If you want to mostly just leave her to her room, then you've communicated to her that it is acceptable, and your frustration is misplaced and unfair.

(In this case the appropriate response would have been calm sympathy for HER having lost one of HER important items of clothing, having to go on the trip without it and/or maybe not being able to go on the trip. The limits you would have to provide would only be that she go to bed at a reasonable time instead of continuing the search, and that you not buy next year's T-shirt until she told you a workable plan for keeping it find-able.)

Either of these plans will work, and different parents have an affinity for each one... but you can't sit on the fence. If you let her be responsible for her room, wash your hands of the results and refuse to get involved. If not, then make a plan to help her learn to keep it however tidy it needs to be, including consequences that make her care about keeping it tidy.

PS - There are a lot of reasons that she doesn't need the latest and greatest things, but if this is the issue that pushes you off that band-wagon, great!



peculiar_lady2 -> RE: 10 yr old daughter (5/11/2008 9:05:11 AM)

not trying to judge in any way, so please don't take it that way...but have you ever actually TAUGHT her how to clean her room? Kids don't instinctively learn things just because they see you do it or they are doing it from a young age on...those are two very important aspects to cleaning too....but have you actually ever sat her down and broken down the mental processes of HOW to clean things up? Also is her room organized? If it isn't then cleaning isn't going to do any good because one little thing and it will be back to where it is now. I would say her age is perfect for teaching her HOW to clean and organize...younger and it's more of a "are they mature enough to understand this concept yet"....but at her age she should be (even with ADHD).
With my 8yo (he will be 9yo in August) we are trying to teach this concept right now. What helps him is a check list of what things need to be done in order to achieve a clean room. While you and I may stand at the door and see that it's not that bad, just four things really that need to be picked up....clothes, dirty clothes, trash, and toys...etc.....kids can't sometimes see that or break it down in their heads very easily. So if you really want this behavior to stop, then you have to be willing to start with the ground work with her. Write out a specific (yet not too hard) list of daily things to be done in her room.....and CHECK THAT THEY ARE DONE (I am trying to convince my hubby that part of the problem with our sons room is he checks the girls room before bed, but not our sons room...so it can sometimes go for a few days before I get to it). We homeschool so we have a few different cleaning times during the day....but if your daughter goes to school, then I would have a morning check for the basics (did she throw her dirty clothes in the hamper or are they on the floor, did she attempt to make her bed or are the blankets and pillows all over the floor, did she pull out clean clothes that she isn't wearing today or did she put them back). Then hopefully (if you start with a clean room at night when she goes to bed) doing those few things before school will make it pretty clean during the day. When she gets home assess the things she does in her room to determine what really needs to be in her room. Garsy said her girls have craft stuff in their room....in our house that would be the major part of any mess right there, so here we don't allow things like that in the kids rooms...those things are played with in common areas where we can manage the mess better and it gets picked up easier. So observe what she does in her room, and get rid of any excess that she doesn't need or use and anything that she just can't handle in that environment very well. Build up from there and organize all her things in an order that she can easily understand WHY it is organized the way it is. If her tendency is to throw dirty clothes on the floor in the closet, then the closet should have a basket for them to go into....if it's always trash strewn on the floor around the desk or bed, then put a trash can there. If she has general stuff strewn about then try a general box that gets gone through and everything put away properly when it is full (I do that with my house....it really works for me!!!). Really it's going to take two things...your time in assessing the things she has and organizing those things and teaching her how to do things more and more...and your time and help in cleaning her room. If you aren't willing to or just don't have the time to put into it the way it needs to be done, then I would say get used to the idea of a messy room. It isn't going to be a quick fix solution...you may have to teach her every week for years before she finally gets it...but the biggest questions are... are you willing to do that and not give up? and is it really that big of a deal?





Ellie-Mae -> RE: 10 yr old daughter (5/11/2008 9:57:14 AM)

We have this issue with our kids, especially my eldest. We are teaching him that he is not to be a slave to his stuff.

Things that we do to help include not having clothes in their bedrooms. All of our dressers are in the laundry room. The clothes go straight from the dryer into the drawers. The kids don't dress in their rooms. They dress in the bathrooms. No clothes are supposed to be left on the floors, but are to be put down the chute (although we have to keep checking on them). Shoe are not to be left in their rooms; they each have a special cubbie for their coats and shoes. Most of the toys are in the playroom. I have special places for their papers and posters. They are also not allowed to have food in their rooms without permission. Every morning they are required to clean their rooms before they can use their privileges for the day. Every morning, I have to check the rooms to be sure they are done.

Slowly, the rooms will return to be a messy room. Don't let it sneak up and get back before you go through their room and help them get it back to snuff. I expect to do that every month or two.

We have done like what Brandy's mom has done and that works well too. The kids don't like losing their things, but are usually much happier within a couple of days because they don't have all that picking up looming over them.



agapetos -> RE: 10 yr old daughter (5/11/2008 10:59:43 AM)

quote:

She blamed these containers on her friend, when she spent the night.
That's simple enough to find out for sure ~ she's not allowed friends to stay unless her room is tidy.

quote:

My car, after she haas been in it, ends up looking like her room.
But surely she's only in the car when you (or your husband) are in it. Set rules. She's only allowed one 'activity' (book, game, whatever) while travelling from a to b and she isn't allowed to eat. If the journey is a longer one then plan a quick stop at mid-way so she can change her activity if she wishes. If she needs to eat in the car, make sure there is a bag that she can get to so rubbish can go into it.

quote:

I guess it is a disrespect thing.
Or that she's simply not able to deal with all the things you've been giving her. I have no problem with you giving her what is cool but it's wrong to give things to her and expect her to figure out where to put them in a room she clearly has a problem organising.

You need to go through her room calmly with her and sort things out ~ get rid of things that are broken or clothes that are too small (either bin or charity). Some things may need storing (seasonal and too large clothes). Perhaps she needs labels on drawers and things to say what goes where (simplistic, yes, but hey, if it works, why knock it?).

Being tidy comes down partly to training ~ you may have shown your daughter all these things when she was younger, but for whatever reason, she's forgotten them and you need to work with her to help sort things out ~ and you need to talk with her about what will help her and what won't.



deliveredarling -> RE: 10 yr old daughter (5/11/2008 2:15:49 PM)

quote:


If you want to mostly just leave her to her room, then you've communicated to her that it is acceptable, and your frustration is misplaced and unfair.


Excellent point. Thank you

(In this case the appropriate response would have been calm sympathy for HER having lost one of HER important items of clothing, having to go on the trip without it and/or maybe not being able to go on the trip. The limits you would have to provide would only be that she go to bed at a reasonable time instead of continuing the search, and that you not buy next year's T-shirt until she told you a workable plan for keeping it find-able.)

Another super idea!

You have all given me very good feedback and I appreciate all your insight. Today, we are working on the room in project fashion, by breaking them down into small pieces. laundry being first!



Sadey -> RE: 10 yr old daughter (5/11/2008 2:24:42 PM)

Well as a grandma it looks like to me that she is buried in stuff. Hon, does she really need the "latest and greatest thing," or do you and dad need for her to have them. Stop giving her so much, its probably overwhelming and if when she destroys sometthing you just give her more, what are you teaching her? I think this goes way beyond a clean room. Dejunk her room and make it easy for her to keep clean, box up mose of her stuff and simpilfy things for her and you. You could also help her clean it once a week.

Let her work for the next thing she wants and see if she is more careful with it?



deliveredarling -> RE: 10 yr old daughter (5/11/2008 3:34:15 PM)

well, Sadey. i could care less whether she has the latest and greatest stuff in order to keep up with the joneses. This past Christmas, we only bought her clothes, because she neede them. No toys, no wants. She is spoiled and we certainly helped create that. i am paying for it now. I thought that I had taught her better, to be appreciative and grateful. That is the example she is given. i have failed her in this some how. I really thought that I was teaching her responsibility by allowing her to suffer the consequences of her actions. You know, when she doesn't take care of something, we don't go and replace it. She rides a bicycle that sounds just like a tin can rolling down the street because she won't take care of it. Now every kid needs a bike. I can't stand it that she is riding this bike in this condition. However, I will not get her a new one. I leave her to her room and feel like if she wants to live in a pigsty that is fine. it becomes a problem when she can't find something that she has to have. This is when I get upset that she has disregarded the things we have worked very hard for her to have. There are so many things I would love for her to have, yet I can't do it until she becomes more responsible. These lessons now will help her in the future. That's what I keep thinking about. If I don't step in now and the little things are no big deal, what happens when the big stuff happens. How did I teach her to deal with them. I keep thinking about that scripture:' if you are responsible with the small things, I will make you responsible with much more." That was very, very paraphrased. I own my part in this. I own, trying a million different solutions and in trying them lacking, consistency. But at 10 yrs old, some of these lessons should have already been learned and she doesn't have much excuse for it, ya know? Please don't get the idea that this child is buried in her room beneath all kinds of gadgets because that is just not true. However, every piece of paper the child can find, she has collected and those with clothes are stuffed everywhere. She does have a trashcan that she doesn't use, that's what she uses her drawers for!



Brandy -> RE: 10 yr old daughter (5/11/2008 3:40:07 PM)

At 10 years old she has no concept of owning an item and maintaining it properly such as a bike.

She's 10.

At 10 I was worrying about my developing body attracting boys' attention and how to stop it.

At 10 I was learning the proper way to manage my 'stuff' with tough love from my mom.

At 10 I was more worried about what my friends thought of me than what I thought of myself.


10 is an age where she will, if she hasn't already, start comparing herself to her friends in body shape and other 'stuff'. Now is a GREAT time to start teaching her about herself, how to care for herself and her stuff. Not just assume she should know.

Have you taught her bike maintenance? At 10 my stepdad was doing it with my watching and learning.

Have you taught her, in easy to manage steps, how to clean and maintain her living space? The other living spaces in the house?

Unless you have step by step taught her things you cannot and should not assume she should know it. That's asking for her to fail and you to get angry.

Young pre-teens forget things, misplace things and lose things. It's part of their brain developing.. but if given the proper tools on how to manage themselves, their time and their belongings they will blossom into responsible young people over the next SEVERAL years.



deliveredarling -> RE: 10 yr old daughter (5/11/2008 4:51:13 PM)

Brandy, thank you for the insight. Those are things I did not consider and I appreciate you bringing them to my attention.


I will say, for our adventure into her room today, she has done a magnificent job. I did not hold her hand through it, but was available for questions and checked in on her repeatedly. She organized her stuff so that she knows where it's at. Before I would have done it for her and she couldn't find a thing. Letting her do it her way with my guidelines has done wonders!

We now have a clean room and a ton of laundry to finish up!



agapetos -> RE: 10 yr old daughter (5/11/2008 5:37:51 PM)

quote:

She rides a bicycle that sounds just like a tin can rolling down the street because she won't take care of it. Now every kid needs a bike. I can't stand it that she is riding this bike in this condition. However, I will not get her a new one.
I wonder what Brandy wondered too ~ does she know how to take care of her bike properly and how often she needs to check it?

And I will add, that if her bike is in poor condition, why on earth are you letting her ride it 'down the street'? Take it off her until she takes care of it (if she does know how to take care of it ~ like Brandy, I didn't know fully at that age). Teaching her a lesson is one thing ~ letting her on the road on a bike which is not properly maintained is dangerous (even if she isn't on the actual road).

I have bipolar and when my mood isn't good, I very easily get overwhelmed by the things I have to do around the house. When I start to feel better I have a huge uphill battle to get things right before I'm not well again. Over the past year I've been working on charts of what needs doing in each room/area and how often the tasks need doing. Every time I do something, I tick it off (I've covered the lists with acetate so I can wipe the ticks off regularly). It helps me see what needs to be done (regardless of my mood). I may still have the uphill battle to straighten stuff out, but it's easier for me to start on one room and sort that and keep it sorted as I start to work on the next room. Perhaps a chart would help your daughter ~ make bed, vacuum, change sheets, dust, put clothes away, whatever.



deliveredarling -> RE: 10 yr old daughter (5/11/2008 6:02:40 PM)

The bike issue, she has torn up the seat, the peddles are cracked. The chain is good, the tires are fine. No, I'm sure she doesn't know how to check the tires or the chain. I haven't figured out what or where the noise comes from. If I felt like she was in danger I wouldn't be letting her ride it. It just looks all beat up from throwing it on the ground rather than using the kick stand.

Ladies, I'm feeling rather like some are looking down their nose at my parenting. If I felt like I was the world's greatest parent, I wouldn't feel the need to post for advice. Ya'll have given me some very good insight and I truly appreciate it. Some of the suggestions I have even done to my great satisfaction. But please, let's not make each other feel bad because we are having a tough time in some areas.



peculiar_lady2 -> RE: 10 yr old daughter (5/11/2008 6:45:42 PM)

quote:

But at 10 yrs old, some of these lessons should have already been learned and she doesn't have much excuse for it, ya know?

actually, if you haven't followed through with teaching her and training her then she really does have an "excuse"...she is after all, still just a child. It's not like you have ruined her for life either though....she is still very young. Yes you might be over with half of her rearing years, but that doesn't mean you have failed her. If anything, you have tried a few different things and figured out what doesn't work for her AND for you. You have realized that one of your own personal problems is consistency....and that you can change!!! She is still "young and impressionable"...and al is not lost on her and organizing. At ten years old my mom was still trying to find my personal style for cleaning and organizing...and she worked on that my entire life!!!! Some kids are just naturally clean and organized, and others are not. Sometimes it just takes time (year in fact!!!) to find our own in cleaning and organizing. I have always had problems in this area...and honestly it has taken me the last ten years (next month) of being married to finally feel like I have found MY cleaning method that works best for me and my personality. My mom is not that way...it almost seems like she is the type of person that walks into a room and things jump up into place instinctively....I have never been like that and doubt I ever will be, but I have taken all my mom tried to teach me over the years and been able to find my own way with cleaning. So don't be discouraged even if this is a never ending problem....just deal with it in little spurts and teach her how to deal with it like that too. Eventually she will get it!!



peculiar_lady2 -> RE: 10 yr old daughter (5/11/2008 6:48:47 PM)

quote:

Every time I do something, I tick it off (I've covered the lists with acetate so I can wipe the ticks off regularly).

we do that with our chore lists or really any list too....just slide the paper into0 a sheet protector then we can use dry erase markers on it and they erase very easily (even though they are "dry erase" we still have to use something wet to get them off...but we have baby wipes around all the time so we just use those)



deliveredarling -> RE: 10 yr old daughter (5/11/2008 7:31:22 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: peculiar_lady2

quote:

actually, if you haven't followed through with teaching her and training her then she really does have an "excuse"..


This is the thing.....I have done these things. I have taught her how to hang up her clothes, which ones are hung or folded. She even knows how to do her own laundry. I'm not convinced that it is a training or teaching issue. I'm more convinced it's a"I'm too busy, gotta go have fun" issue. She knows hoe to do these things because I have seen her do them on several occasions. The discipline has been inconsistent because I have tried different things. The expectations for her have not and neither have her excuses. We focus on responsibility in my house. Her chores are limited to setting the table and feeding the dogs. Not too much to handle. Her room is her territory. I can and do shut the door, so I don't have to see it. Not finding uniforms and important clothing is not ok. Yes, she is 10 yrs old. 10 yrs old know when there room is too messy. I can completely baby her or do it for her, but by doing that, I am denying her an opportunity to learn responsibility. Again, ya'll gave some great suggestions, which is what I was looking for.[:)]



locomom -> RE: 10 yr old daughter (5/11/2008 8:17:47 PM)

It sounds like you have 2 issues, organization and disobedience. For the disorganization, I agree with those who suggested downsizing. It would even be reasonable to reduce her to minimum and make her earn it back.

For the disobedience of taking food into her room and leaving the trash, if she does this you can do 2 things. One is "lay down the law" about food in her room, letting her know you are well aware that she is being disobedient. Then if she does it again, tell since she can't be trusted about the food in her room, take her room away. That means close the door, and she's only allowed to use it to sleep in. You can even pick out her daily clothes since she's not allowed in her room. I have used this, and it can be very effective.



deliveredarling -> RE: 10 yr old daughter (5/11/2008 8:24:05 PM)

quote:

take her room away.


That's really funny. I did that with my 15 yr old son. It does work![:D]



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