who is this? (Full Version)

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colliefan -> who is this? (5/11/2008 11:37:55 PM)

1 Pet 5:13 (ESV) 13She who is at Babylon, who is likewise chosen, sends you greetings, and so does Mark, my son.



Anisavta -> RE: who is this? (5/12/2008 4:44:36 PM)

Babylon was a common euphemism for Rome among Jewish writers of their day.
Taking from the writings of the Midrash Rabbah, Megillah and the Makkot which are commentary and orah law on the Tanach (Torah, Prophets and Writings) Babylon was always the worst kingdom which is what Rome was considered.



Bluethread -> RE: who is this? (5/12/2008 6:34:41 PM)

Therefore are you sughgesting that Shimon(Peter) was refering to a believer/the believers in Babylon or Rome?



Anisavta -> RE: who is this? (5/12/2008 6:44:18 PM)

Yes. There was a congregation of The Way there.



colliefan -> RE: who is this? (5/12/2008 10:18:01 PM)

Is "she" the church at Rome? Or, and individual in the church?



ClintonPI -> RE: who is this? (5/12/2008 11:07:10 PM)

This passage refers to a church (she) in Rome (Babylon). Since it was a time of Christian persecution in Rome, Peter may have renamed the city as code as well as a description of its condition.



colliefan -> RE: who is this? (5/13/2008 12:25:23 PM)

So, did John use the same metaphor in these passages?

2 John 1:1 (ESV) 1The elder to the elect lady and her children, whom I love in truth, and not only I, but also all who know the truth,


2 John 1:4 - 6 (ESV) 4I rejoiced greatly to find some of your children walking in the truth, just as we were commanded by the Father. 5And now I ask you, dear lady—not as though I were writing you a new commandment, but the one we have had from the beginning—that we love one another. 6And this is love, that we walk according to his commandments; this is the commandment, just as you have heard from the beginning, so that you should walk in it.



Bluethread -> RE: who is this? (5/13/2008 12:40:04 PM)

Yochanan(John) may have been using the term "lady" to refer to the entire family of Adonai. Much as Alchida uses metaphors in its communications today, if you will excuse the crudness of the analogy.



ta_mosquito -> RE: who is this? (5/13/2008 1:19:56 PM)

Who's Alchida?



Bluethread -> RE: who is this? (5/13/2008 1:30:58 PM)

Sorry if I misspelled it, I am refering to Islamic Jihad.



ta_mosquito -> RE: who is this? (5/13/2008 1:32:22 PM)

Oh!

Al Qaeda? Something like that. Had I been more on the ball I might have been able to guess what you meant. [;)]



Anisavta -> RE: who is this? (5/13/2008 3:56:40 PM)

During the times of the writing of letters to the Congregations in the first Century there was alot of circumlocution or evasive language going on. So as not to flag themselves to the government they would use "family and friend" words to talk about different people or places or even references to G~d.



Lurker -> RE: who is this? (5/14/2008 10:02:54 AM)

Indeed, the initial passage refers to the Church in Rome, of which Peter was the head apostle. He was actually martyred there as well. When they told him he was to be crucified, he insisted that he be crucified upside down since he felt he was unworthy to die in the same way as Our Lord.

According to some legends though, Peter first started to flee Rome, but as he was leaving the city, he saw Jesus heading to the city carrying a cross. When he asked the Lord where he was going, Jesus replied that He was heading to the city to be crucified again. At this point, Peter returned to the city and accepted the crown of martyrdom.



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