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Do we know more than the Apostles? - 5/28/2008 2:18:44 PM
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sunofone
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This is a weird question I know.I hope that I came frame it in a way that makes sense,so that a clear answer can be given.
Having the benefit of a completed bible in our hands is it possible that we know more about God and his plan then even the Apostles who helped frame the New Testament?
I know on it's face it seems like a idiotic question,to think it possible that we could have a better understanding of God's plan then those who helped articulate the plan to begin with.
Consider this though,the Patriarchs such as Abraham,and Moses did not have as detailed an understanding of Gods plan as we have simply by having the bible in our hands.
It has been argued that the Apostles were not even cognizant that they were systematically composing a New Testament to begin with.I'm not aware of any evidence that they knew that each epistle written would one day be canonized and referred to as the New Testament bible, which would be read and followed for perpetuity.
We as possessors of the bible have a panoramic written view of Gods plan in our hands which we can scrutinize and receive fresh revelation of concerning Gods plan daily.
I realize that they were privy to Masoretic,or Septuagint text, which served as a aid,or guide in instruction and doctrine,along with God inspired revelation concerning what we now refer to as the new Covenant.
I guess the question is whether we enjoy an advantage to some degree having the bible in our hand as we do now,which allows us to no more then perhaps they did.
The word more needs to be qualified here to some degree.I'm not speaking about quantity,I'm looking at it more so from from the idea that hindsight can be 20/20.In other words having the advantage to look at the completed record,is it possible that we can see past some of their potential blind spots.
If I've done a good enough job framing the question which I'm not sure I have, I think we can have a definitive answer.
Either absolutely not,this question is absurd,or yes I suppose it's possible,or we just have no way of knowing with any degree of certainty.
I need to know if possible, the answer to this question, as I think it has serious ramifications concerning the doctrines we espouse and adhere to.
So I hope you will indulge my folly and at least offer a thoughtful courteous reply. Thanks
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RE: Do we know more than the Apostles? - 5/28/2008 3:08:29 PM
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URForgiven
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quote:
ORIGINAL: sunofone
It has been argued that the Apostles were not even cognizant that they were systematically composing a New Testament to begin with.I'm not aware of any evidence that they knew that each epistle written would one day be canonized and referred to as the New Testament bible, which would be read and followed for perpetuity.
I am not sure about that. It appears that they were aware of each others writings and even considered them equal with Scripture. Unless I am misreading this...
2 Peter 3:15-17
"Bear in mind that our Lord's patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him. He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction."
quote:
We as possessors of the bible have a panoramic written view of Gods plan in our hands which we can scrutinize and receive fresh revelation of concerning Gods plan daily.
I realize that they were privy to Masoretic,or Septuagint text, which served as a aid,or guide in instruction and doctrine,along with God inspired revelation concerning what we now refer to as the new Covenant.
I guess the question is whether we enjoy an advantage to some degree having the bible in our hand as we do now,which allows us to no more then perhaps they did.
I do not believe we have a better understanding than the Apostles did. Remember they lived with The Living Word for 3 years. Before the resurrection they were clueless, but the resurrected Christ appeared to them...
Luke 24:27
"And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, he explained to them what was said in all the Scriptures concerning himself."
The Apostles were uniquely equipped by Jesus to carry His message to the world, it is they who are the foundation upon which the Church is built, with Christ as the cornerstone. But still until they received the Holy Spirit they were cowering, frightened and of little use to anyone.
John 14:25, 26
"All this I have spoken while still with you. But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you."
We do not know all things. But Jesus said the apostles would.
Paul was even taken to the third Heaven...I cannot even imagine what he saw and learned.
quote:
So I hope you will indulge my folly and at least offer a thoughtful courteous reply. Thanks
Thats all I have for now. I do not think this folly, these are great questions!
Peace
_____________________________
"Are you so foolish? After beginning with the Spirit,
are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort?" Galatians 3:3
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RE: Do we know more than the Apostles? - 5/28/2008 4:34:06 PM
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Bluethread
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quote:
ORIGINAL: sunofone
Having the benefit of a completed bible in our hands is it possible that we know more about God and his plan then even the Apostles who helped frame the New Testament?
I know on it's face it seems like a idiotic question,to think it possible that we could have a better understanding of God's plan then those who helped articulate the plan to begin with.
Consider this though,the Patriarchs such as Abraham,and Moses did not have as detailed an understanding of Gods plan as we have simply by having the bible in our hands.
This question is full of assumptions. First is the nature of revelation and a second is the nature of knowledge.
First, the concept of the canon being complete has been the subject of much debate in another thread. Without getting into that debate here, I think it has been conceeded that the written word is limited representation of Adonai and there are things about Adonai that are not clearly communicated in the Scriptures.
Second, the idea that we are somehow better or at least better off than our forefathers equates information and knowledge. To presume that we are more knowledgeable about the nature of Adonai than the Apostles, let alone the Patriarchs is presumptious.
There are at least two kinds of knowledge. There is the accumulation of information and there is the understanding of that information. And finally there is the problem of information overload.
Paul implies that the Patriarchs did not know all of the details regarding Adonai's plan, in order to show that they lived by faith. However, this does not tell us what or how much they did not understand. Some have proposed that those who lived before the flood may have been at least as knowledgable as we are.
Even if we presume that knowledge recorded since the flood provides us with more information, is that information more or completely accurate. If one can write something down, one has less incentive to internalize it. Also, our creative abilities cause us to rearrange information in a myriad of ways. So, with our seperation from and manipulation of the original documents let alone the revelation that inspired them, how can we say we have more understanding?
I would side with Shlomo(Soloman) when it comes to human knowledge. "All is vanity." If history teaches us anything it is that man has always found ways to justify his behavior and will continue to do so. Therefore, as Paul tells us "knowledge puffs up" and "the righteous shall live by faith".
< Message edited by Bluethread -- 5/28/2008 4:42:55 PM >
_____________________________
"Show me wherein I have errored and I will hold my tongue." Iyov(Job)
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RE: Do we know more than the Apostles? - 5/28/2008 6:06:09 PM
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Doghouse
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No, its not possible. They had the benefit of daily personal instruction from Jesus for a period of a couple of years. All we have left is the magisterium (if you're Catholic) and/or the New Testament, which hits the highlights, but isn't daily tutoring for 3 years or more from Jesus Himself.
I believe the Holy Spirit has preserved for all of us the important instruction and practices relevant to the practice and development of a faith relationship with God and a charitable and compassionate relationship with everyone else. What is argued about in these forums is the completeness and accuracy of that instruction and practice.
_____________________________
When someone virtuous turns away from virtue to commit iniquity...it is because of the iniquity he committed that he must die. But if he turns from the wickedness he has committed, he does what is right and just, he shall preserve his life" - Ez 18:25-28
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RE: Do we know more than the Apostles? - 5/28/2008 6:32:44 PM
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sunofone
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These are all very good responses and I appreciate the feedback,also my apologies if my generalizations,and failed attempt to properly articulate my question leaves a lot to be desired.
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RE: Do we know more than the Apostles? - 5/28/2008 7:02:51 PM
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john_mark
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i dont think we know more for a couple of reasons. first the apostles encountered Jesus in a way that we will not until He comes again. they saw the miracles, the transfiguration, the ascension. they were given power and authority over demons ( see luke 9). paul had an encounter i dont think any of us can claim to have had. knowledge no matter how complete cannot replace that experience.
secondly, even though we have a complete bible, we the church cannot seem to agree on what it means. look at any of the forums on this site. if scripture was written in a systematic fashion that might be different. do you think there is more unity in the church since the completion of the cannon of scripture?
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RE: Do we know more than the Apostles? - 5/28/2008 8:22:10 PM
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sunofone
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I feel a little overwhelmed in discussing this topic,because the question was only formulated in my head today.It was a passing thought that stemmed from a discussion I've been having on another thread.
I feel like this is a legitimate question that really deserves a better formulated thought then I can properly articulate at the moment.I hope to be blessed with a moment of clarity here shortly so I can transfer my thoughts into a post worthy of further discussion.
In the mean time every post is proving helpful at least to me.Thanks again
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RE: Do we know more than the Apostles? - 5/28/2008 11:10:15 PM
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bob97
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quote:
All that to say: "no"
Amen!
Bob
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The LORD clears the road for me!
The LORD is my high ridge, my stronghold, my deliverer!
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RE: Do we know more than the Apostles? - 5/29/2008 9:31:18 AM
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URForgiven
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Ps103
quote:
I feel a little overwhelmed in discussing this topic,because the question was only formulated in my head today.It was a passing thought that stemmed from a discussion I've been having on another thread.
And I do not see anything wrong with that. I don't think anyone else does, either, so you don't have to apologize 
I think some confuse knowledge with intelligence. There is the erroneous idea out there that we as 'modern' man are more intelligent than our ancestors. That because we have advancements in technology and knowledge that that means 'we' are smarter.
This is just patently false. Intelligence is the capacity for knowledge. And there have been, and always will be, those who have great capacity for knowledge, those with little capacity, and every level of capacity in between.
You are not asking about intelligence [at least as I see it] you are asking about knowledge. Specifically, how much knowledge do we [corporately...as The Church] have, and is it more or more complete than our ancestors had. This is a valid question, and one I find personally interesting.
All this is a long way of saying, keep on keeping on. Do not be stifled by those who feel the need to squelch any question or idea that does not fit into their preconceived corner on knowledge. The only way we as Christians grow, is when we are confronted with truth, we are willing to give up the lie that the truth has exposed. It is the truth that sets us free. The alternative to this is to remain in bondage to error.
Peace
_____________________________
"Are you so foolish? After beginning with the Spirit,
are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort?" Galatians 3:3
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RE: Do we know more than the Apostles? - 5/29/2008 9:41:19 AM
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sunofone
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quote:
ORIGINAL: URForgiven
quote:
ORIGINAL: Ps103
quote:
I feel a little overwhelmed in discussing this topic,because the question was only formulated in my head today.It was a passing thought that stemmed from a discussion I've been having on another thread.
And I do not see anything wrong with that. I don't think anyone else does, either, so you don't have to apologize
I think some confuse knowledge with intelligence. There is the erroneous idea out there that we as 'modern' man are more intelligent than our ancestors. That because we have advancements in technology and knowledge that that means 'we' are smarter.
This is just patently false. Intelligence is the capacity for knowledge. And there have been, and always will be, those who have great capacity for knowledge, those with little capacity, and every level of capacity in between.
You are not asking about intelligence [at least as I see it] you are asking about knowledge. Specifically, how much knowledge do we [corporately...as The Church] have, and is it more or more complete than our ancestors had. This is a valid question, and one I find personally interesting.
All this is a long way of saying, keep on keeping on. Do not be stifled by those who feel the need to squelch any question or idea that does not fit into their preconceived corner on knowledge. The only way we as Christians grow, is when we are confronted with truth, we are willing to give up the lie that the truth has exposed. It is the truth that sets us free. The alternative to this is to remain in bondage to error.
Peace
Ur you have described my question even better then I am able to articulate it, and I appreciate it. I promise once I get my thoughts organized,I will attempt to give a better reason with scriptural references for the basis of my question.Thanks
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RE: Do we know more than the Apostles? - 5/29/2008 11:08:51 AM
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Odeliya
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quote:
Ps103
When He was talking to them, He had not yet given them the Holy Spirit to help them understand--that came later, and I am pretty darn sure they "got it" then.
Oh. Thats a very profound thing you said.
A theological professor has academical knowledge, but real knowdlege of God comes from the Holy spirit only. In that regard knowing God is unlike knowing medicine or engineering that measured by accumulated amount of information, literally more books and classes you take the more you know.
But a child or person with limited mental capabilities can know God more then the abovementioned theol. professor; and in essence the goal is to know God, not theology.
It is possible to have lots of theol. knowlege and still not know God but be merely religious.
The person that knows God the most of all i ever met is the girl with Down syndrom in the church i go to. The concepts of love, being your brothers keeper and everybody's servant that are lost on our elders with theol degrees are revealed to her to extent i can only dream of.
quote:
All that to say: "no"
another vote for "no". actually we as a modern society rely more on academ. knowledge and less on Holy Spirit.
_____________________________
Proverbs XI:14 Where no counsel is, the people fall: but in the multitude of counselors there is safety.
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RE: Do we know more than the Apostles? - 5/29/2008 12:02:11 PM
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BerianAardvark
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The answer to your question lies in the definition you choose. There are several definitions of knowledge, what the Apostles had was first hand experiential knowledge:
What was from the beginning, what we have heard, what we have seen with our eyes, what we have looked at and touched with our hands, concerning the Word of Life-- and the life was manifested, and we have seen and testify and proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and was manifested to us-- what we have seen and heard we proclaim to you also, so that you too may have fellowship with us; and indeed our fellowship is with the Father, and with His Son Jesus Christ. (1 John 1:1-3 NASB)
That is a sort of knowledge that we will never attain until we meet Him face to face as the Apostles did.
They wrote (under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit) to share that knowledge with us...they didn't tell us every detail, but they told us enough for us to understand and accept God's plan of Salvation.
If they had included every detail the Bible would be many times larger, and that would a snare to those who already loose the message of the Gospel in the search for more knowledge.
There are and always will be those who are: "always learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth." (2 Timothy 3:7 NASB)
The other form of knowledge is what we gain from study of scripture, study of commentaries (basically what recognized Bible scholars have thought/learned from their reading and analysis of scripture), sermons and discussion like these forums.
This form of knowledge can be tainted by our own personal prejudices and preconceived ideas. Its validity is dependent upon how willing we are to place our thoughts as to what scripture SHOULD say about something under submission to what it really says OUR studies into New Testament scripture are attempts to understand what the Apostles said...we cannot get more out of it than what they knew and put into it.
There is a whole area of Biblical scholarship devoted to determining what the best methods of Biblical interpretation. Here is a site that has a good over view and many resources in the area Hermeneutics and related fields: http://hermeneutics.kulikovskyonline.net/hermeneutics/hermeneutics.htm
But knowledge is not the be all and end all of the Christian experience.
Just to use the name of Christ and the Bible is not proof that a system is genuine. It is not the outward profession but the inward relationship to a crucified but living Savior that is all-important. Jesus exposed those people who sounded religious but had no personal relationship with him. On "judgment day" only our relationship with Christ—our acceptance of him as Savior and our obedience to him—will matter. Many people think that if they are "good" people and say religious things, they will be rewarded with eternal life. In reality, faith in Christ is what will count at the judgment.
Did one of them have some bit of knowledge that another didn't? Not if that bit of knowledge was needed for them to fulfill their Apostolic mission. And since the Holy Spirit directed what they wrote, they wrote all that WE need to know.
Tim
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RE: Do we know more than the Apostles? - 5/29/2008 12:26:12 PM
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sunofone
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quote:
The other form of knowledge is what we gain from study of scripture, study of commentaries (basically what recognized Bible scholars have thought/learned from their reading and analysis of scripture), sermons and discussion like these forums.
This form of knowledge can be tainted by our own personal prejudices and preconceived ideas. Its validity is dependent upon how willing we are to place our thoughts as to what scripture SHOULD say about something under submission to what it really says OUR studies into New Testament scripture are attempts to understand what the Apostles said...we cannot get more out of it than what they knew and put into it. This is it in a nutshell,as to what I'm getting at here.We read the scriptures and from them form doctrines and beliefs based on what we see or understand.As you mentioned it is to a large degree tainted by our own prejudices.
These post have been so helpful,I will respond soon I hope tying all my thoughts together.
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RE: Do we know more than the Apostles? - 5/31/2008 10:10:51 AM
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sunofone
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As promised a follow up post.After continuing to mull over this question,I wish I could say that I've arrived at a conclusion that allows me to move forward,feeling as if the question is resolved.I have enjoyed enormously the post that have been shared up to this point,and feel some excellent points have been raised.
I guess the best way to address this question is to see if I can help you understand why I asked it to begin with.
I was discussing a topic concerning the roles that God has assigned to us,and in the course of the discussion I had an occasion to use the scripture found in 1st Corinthians 7 vs 16; 7:16 For what knowest thou, O wife, whether thou shalt save thy husband? or how knowest thou, O man, whether thou shalt save thy wife?
In reading the verse I considered what Paul was saying here,what the implication was.My mind instantly went to a discussion I've been having concerning salvation,and how it is/why it is one comes to be saved if you will.
Without reading to much into the verse.what I hear Paul stating in the form of a question albeit, is that the possibility exist that the unbelieving spouse can be won to Christ,in addition,or perhaps in the absence of the word of God being preached.
Likewise, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands,
&c.] As well as subjects to princes, and servants to masters; though not with the same sort of subjection, but what is suitable to the relation they stand in to their husbands; (See Gill on Ephesians 5:22). (See Gill on Colossians 3:18).
that if any obey not the word;
any husband who is an unbeliever, has no love for the Gospel, and gives no credit to it, but despises, disbelieves, and rejects it, the word of truth, of faith, of righteousness, reconciliation, and salvation. The apostle, though he includes all wives, and exhorts them in general to subjection to their own husbands, yet has a particular regard to such as had unbelieving husbands, and who, on that account, were scrupulous of living with them, and of being in subjection to them; and therefore, as the Apostle Paul also did, he advises them to abide with them, and behave well to them, using much the same argument as he does in (1 Corinthians 7:10,13,16) .
they also may without the word be won by the conversation of the
wives;
for though the ordinary way and means of conversion is the word, faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word; yet it may be sometimes done without it; or however by the agreeable conversation of professors, and so of religious wives, the hearts of such as were averse to Christianity, and the Gospel, as unbelieving husbands, may be so softened, and wrought upon, as to entertain a better opinion of it, and in process of time be inclined to hear and attend it; the consequence of which may prove their conversion, which is a gaming, or winning of souls; and which, as it is for their good, is for the glory of Christ; for as every soul that is delivered from the power of darkness, and is translated into the kingdom of Christ, is a loss to Satan, it is a gain to Christ, and to his church. The Syriac version, instead of "without the word", reads, "without labour"; as if the winning of unbelieving husbands was easily obtained by the conversation of their wives.
The point of all of this for me,is that here we have the Apostles in agreement as to the way in which a person can be brought to repentance.I suppose their point can be applied broadly to mean,who knows how God may choose,or if God may choose to save an unbelieving spouse through the life of the believer.
I see alongside this view a belief that God may be,or in fact is using every possible avenue to draw a person to himself.I hear them saying that even though they most probably have had a unfavorable response to the spoken word,there may still exist a chance that the living word personified through the lifestyle of the believer may speak volumes and effectually give way in causing the unbelieving spouse to be won by the word unsuspectingly.It appears that they at least hold out the possibility for such an conversion.
Paul forms this belief in a question,whereas Peter makes a sort of declarative statement to the same effect.I suppose the point I'm drawing from this,is there steadfast belief/commitment to the winning of souls.What I don't see here is a cavalier belief that the unbelieving spouse should simply move on.The belief that God has not chosen them for salvation,therefore it is equally acceptable that they to should be free to not choose them as well.
What I'm saying/seeing for right or for wrong is that the Apostles did not confirm for me here in these verses that they had a belief concerning the outcome of salvation,that is consistent with my view,or take on it.
I believe that in this life God chooses us first and we respond favorably to his choosing;But for the fact that God of his doing would open my eyes to see him,I would continue groping in darkness.I believe that even though I have a will,and my will is certainly used in concert with the will of God.My will is always acted upon,or influenced by some some circumstance or cause outside of my control.
I eat not because I want to,but because it is in my self interest.That is, if I want to survive and be healthy I have to eat or consume the things my body needs in order to make this happen.So laws are written and ordained by God that directly effect my choice,so that God can easily orchestrate bringing me to salvation, even without so much as forcing me to, by simply causing circumstances that would lead me to.
When I consider just for now the two verses I shared and believe me there are other points I would like to raise in addition to this one,but as you can see it is a very lengthy wordy endeavor.I can't say that I see the Apostles agreeing with my assumption.
I can't help but believe if they did see things even remotely close to what I've just said,that they would have been a little more cavalier in their response to one who has heard the gospel and still not believed.I'm not even saying,although I guess I am suggesting that they are removing any room for me to hold my view,by these two scriptures alone.
I just had to pause to ask myself a couple of questions in consideration of the two verses:
1.)If I were an Apostle and God had given me the understanding of our will,and his,and how he subsequently causes by and through his will to get his desired and expected outcome.If that understanding was consistent with the understanding I just laid out, would I have penned the two verses I just mentioned?
2.)The second question I've already asked,but I'll try to reappraise it.Seeing how I am not an Apostle,and I am under no illusion that God has favored with some revelation of his will outside of what was readily available to them.Is it possible that I could no know more/better then the Apostles?
I could as seems clear answer no to both questions and be done here,and apologize for wasting your time in even considering the question to begin with.For me at least,I think both questions demand more extensive consideration.
Perhaps I've I've come to faulty conclusions as to what the verses meant,in which case question number two is a unnecessary question.Perhaps question number two is illogically phrased, and there is in fact room for the possibility, that having a complete bible in our hands and sufficient aid of the Holy Spirit we can unlock mysteries concerning God and his plan that was not explored by the writers who penned the verses to begin with.
I think in fairness a point can be made for both,so for that cause I will continue to consider the question.
Thanks all,Steve
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RE: Do we know more than the Apostles? - 5/31/2008 12:24:43 PM
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BerianAardvark
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Rather than reply point by point, I'll take the verse you cited and do a little free form "commentary" of my own and see if that helps to answer you.
For how do you know, O wife, whether you will save your husband? Or how do you know, O husband, whether you will save your wife? (1 Corinthians 7:16)
You, as a spouse are perfectly placed to demonstrate Christianity through the way you live your life, and through the fruits of the spirit manifested in your life
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law. (Galatians 5:22-23)
just what it means to be a Christian...an unbelieving spouse is not likely to read a tract, or listen to a sermon....but they cannot help but see how you live your life...after all they are living it with you.
There is no law against anything the fruits of the spirit manifests...indeed they are desirable traits, I doubt that an unbelieving spouse would find anything in them to object to, in fact they might just compare what you have with what they have and decide that they want some of those things in their own life.
You don't even have to say a word, in fact the more you say trying to get him to "come around" the more you actually can get in the way of the Holy Spirit working on his/her heart! Live your testimony, and be ready to answer any questions:
But in your hearts set Christ apart as holy [and acknowledge Him] as Lord. Always be ready to give a logical defense to anyone who asks you to account for the hope that is in you, but do it courteously and respectfully. (1 Peter 3:15 AMPLIFIED BIBLE)
Not only keep your spouse in prayer...but also yourself, praying that you will recognize the opportunity and that the Holy Spirit will guide your replies when they do ask questions. (worked for me with my wife anyway.)
Tim
All scripture cited is from the NASB translation unless otherwise indicated.
I have rejoiced in the way of Your testimonies, As much as in all riches. I will meditate on Your precepts And regard Your ways. I shall delight in Your statutes; I shall not forget Your word. (Psalms 119:14-16)
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RE: Do we know more than the Apostles? - 6/1/2008 5:30:31 PM
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Heavendweller
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quote:
ORIGINAL: john_mark
secondly, even though we have a complete bible, we the church cannot seem to agree on what it means. look at any of the forums on this site.
And this brings me to the subject of Sola Scriptura. Having been a Christian for many years now, I have not witnessed a unity among those who claim the Bible as the sole guide for faith and practice. This being the case, I have come to deeply question and doubt the veracity of Sola Scriptura. In plain words, IT JUST DOESN'T WORK!
quote:
if scripture was written in a systematic fashion that might be different. do you think there is more unity in the church since the completion of the cannon of scripture?
john,
This is a hypothetical question, right? While there were heretics back in the days of the early church, the "church" declared who these heretics were and what heresies they taught. And the "church" was united in their view of what these heresies were.
Today we have....well....confusion. Just look at crosswalk forums if anyone has doubt of this. And there is no clear voice, no distinct voice within the body of Christ that is united in preaching the orthodox, Christian faith. Rather, there is denominationalism, factions, schisms, every man/woman to himself/herself with a Bible in his/her hand to defend his/her position. I say this with much sadness. 
Heavendweller
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RE: Do we know more than the Apostles? - 6/1/2008 5:34:10 PM
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Heavendweller
Posts: 553
Joined: 12/22/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Ps103
The way I look at it--they looked God in the eye for three years; I haven't had that priviledge yet.
The things He said to them were new--they can be forgiven if they didn't "get" them while He was with them--He knew they wouldn't.
When He was talking to them, He had not yet given them the Holy Spirit to help them understand--that came later, and I am pretty darn sure they "got it" then.
So--I may understand certain things, but I seriously doubt it is in any way on a par with their experience with Him. He used them to spread His word, and He uses me, but it is not the same by a long chalk.
All that to say: "no"
A HEARTY amen to that, Psalms103!
Heavendweller
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RE: Do we know more than the Apostles? - 6/1/2008 6:17:59 PM
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