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RE: Advice on unmarried couple... - 6/10/2008 12:20:12 AM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 3825
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Qtman
quote:
I have gone over this scenerio before, and bluntly, I would not attend a place that welcomes as members people in open, continued sin. This does make it difficult to find places of worship, but they are out here.
I have no problem with this post. However I point out it has not been shown the couple involved have or are continuing to sin. So far it's all speculation.
quote:
The fact is that, regarding those allowed to be members, I trust the leaders of the place of worship I attend. If such a thought would ever cross my mind regarding members, it would be irrelevant because of that trust.
Part of the problem with the idea of sin allowed to be lived out in the community is that no one wears a badge identifying themselves as members or non-members. Therefore, if open sin is continuously practiced among those who are mere attenders, who knows which ones are members and which are attenders?
When someone in open, deliberate sin begins to attend, then continues to attend without repentance, something is wrong...a lot of things are wrong.
This post however, I have serious problem with. Even Jesus Himself talked to and witnessed to sinners. IMHO if they are in church they are being exposed to the Gospel. I know of no-one that was saved without having first been exposed to the Gospel of Christ. Some just take longer than others.
The bible says PUT AWAY(that means remove) a person who doesn't repent... Which of course is part of a process that has two purposes... To smack the back slider upside the head and or to remove those who truly don't wish to repent and have some evil agenda in regards to attending church... I don't believe the following is an option....
1 Corinthians 5
9. I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:
10. Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world.
11. But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.
12. For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?
13. But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.
John
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RE: Advice on unmarried couple... - 6/10/2008 8:05:34 AM
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DarleneSchreiber
Posts: 169
Joined: 5/22/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: Qtman
quote:
I have gone over this scenerio before, and bluntly, I would not attend a place that welcomes as members people in open, continued sin. This does make it difficult to find places of worship, but they are out here.
I have no problem with this post. However I point out it has not been shown the couple involved have or are continuing to sin. So far it's all speculation.
quote:
The fact is that, regarding those allowed to be members, I trust the leaders of the place of worship I attend. If such a thought would ever cross my mind regarding members, it would be irrelevant because of that trust.
Part of the problem with the idea of sin allowed to be lived out in the community is that no one wears a badge identifying themselves as members or non-members. Therefore, if open sin is continuously practiced among those who are mere attenders, who knows which ones are members and which are attenders?
When someone in open, deliberate sin begins to attend, then continues to attend without repentance, something is wrong...a lot of things are wrong.
This post however, I have serious problem with. Even Jesus Himself talked to and witnessed to sinners. IMHO if they are in church they are being exposed to the Gospel. I know of no-one that was saved without having first been exposed to the Gospel of Christ. Some just take longer than others.
The bible says PUT AWAY(that means remove) a person who doesn't repent... Which of course is part of a process that has two purposes... To smack the back slider upside the head and or to remove those who truly don't wish to repent and have some evil agenda in regards to attending church... I don't believe the following is an option....
1 Corinthians 5
9. I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:
10. Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world.
11. But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.
12. For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?
13. But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.
John
Oh, John! Don't you know that not everybody has some of those old musty verses in their Bibles??? Why, I tore that page out of mine! 
Anyway, don't bother me with silly "facts" about what the Bible says right now. I'm busy looking in my Bible for four or so words I can take out of context and twist into what I want them to say! Maybe something in 1 Thessalonians 4.
Oh, good, I found it...verse 10..."we urge you...increase more and more..." So I gotta to to the buffet for lunch today! 
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RE: Advice on unmarried couple... - 6/10/2008 11:45:12 AM
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Ps103
Posts: 11589
Joined: 4/16/2005
From: Here, now
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: LaurainAL
I think the OP has made it clear that she doesn't know if they are married or not. She is just asking "what ifs".
And asking what-ifs differs from gossip how?
She asked her question in the OP and we are answering it.
_____________________________
Fasten your seatbelts...it's going to be a bumpy night.
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RE: Advice on unmarried couple... - 6/10/2008 1:06:20 PM
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cow451
Posts: 3831
Joined: 5/6/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: DarleneSchreiber
I believe you're correct, Abiyah. We're talking about two different things here...church attendance and church membership. We should welcome all into our church but we are not to welcome all into fellowship.
Ahhhhh, so the unsaved can be invited to church. That's refreshing.
_____________________________
Wenn Sie so intelligent sind, warum Sie hier sind?
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RE: Advice on unmarried couple... - 6/10/2008 1:30:54 PM
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Heavendweller
Posts: 553
Joined: 12/22/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
This couple is probably more honest than the other adulterers in the congregation.
quote:
worthaboverubies:
I don't think we realize how true this is. There is so much sex going on within the church. At least that I saw and still see.
They should be allowed membership.
Well, in this case, we need to have equal opportunity for all. And that means ALL. So if the adulterers are permitted membership then the same should be the case for:
crack/cocaine addicts (currently using)
mediums/sorcerers
strip teasers
prostitutes
pimps
homosexuals (practicing)
pornographers
scandalous politicians
exhibitionists
Mafia hit men
hired killers of any sort
swingers (as in multiple partners)
nude models (as in pin-up gals)
cross-dressers
transexuals
pedophiles
bank robbers and those who money launder
murderers
rapists
Satanists (if they show interest)
groupies (do they still exist?)
I'm gettin' tired of adding to this list. Hope I didn't leave anyone out. I sure would hate to offend. After all, the church is an equal opportunity venture. If one group is allowed membership, then all should be. 
Heavendweller
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RE: Advice on unmarried couple... - 6/10/2008 1:35:28 PM
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Heavendweller
Posts: 553
Joined: 12/22/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: cow451
"Purity" is one of the hallmarks of a cult.
And debauchery??
Heavendweller
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RE: Advice on unmarried couple... - 6/10/2008 1:45:44 PM
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Heavendweller
Posts: 553
Joined: 12/22/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Bro_Shane
Or, have you fallen for the lie of the "hippy Jesus," where anything is accepted and the love shown people is not anywhere close to love as it is revealed in scripture?
Yeah, the "hippy Jesus." I remember him. He thought pot smokin', sexually free, authority hatin', acid trippin', eastern meditatin', foul talkin' folk were so cooool! Jesus is just alright with me. Jesus is just alright, oh yeah!
Thanks for the memories, Bro-Shane.
Heavendweller
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RE: Advice on unmarried couple... - 6/10/2008 1:59:14 PM
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LaurainAL
Posts: 1414
Joined: 8/13/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
And :
Claims Adjustors
Contractors
Since when is being a claim adjuster or a contractor a sin?
_____________________________
My God! How little do my countrymen know what precious blessings they are in possession of, and which no other people on earth enjoy! ~Thomas Jefferson
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RE: Advice on unmarried couple... - 6/10/2008 2:02:01 PM
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Heavendweller
Posts: 553
Joined: 12/22/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Doc65
And didn't Christ say something about if any of you is without sin, let him be the first to cast a stone, or has this ben forgotten. No one, absolutely no one, is truly pure, wholly holy and absolutely sinless this side of heaven. If the church was made of only saints, there would be no need for the church - I think something about Jesus coming to save sinners and not the righteous comes into play here as well - the church is filled with sinner/saints...
So Doc, your church best be admittin' all those who belong to my list above. And that means practicing sinners, y'all. We don't, definately don't, want to discriminate in these days of equal opp. for all. I mean, the absurdity of telling Christians they should stop fornicating, stealing, lying, hating, envying, prostituting, committing adultery, using drugs, pimping, money laundering, killing, raping, plagiarizing, viewing porn, attending houses of ill-repute, cursing, using God's name in vain, ...I'm getting tired of making a list again.
Yeah, the absurd idea that the church should even resemble Christ. The absurd idea that Christians should live a bit different from the world. What am I thinkin? I should've taken the advice of that guy long ago who told me when I was a new Christian that I could still get high, have pre-marital sex, get drunk, (oh no, I'm gettin' another list started), and still be a Christian.
After all, Jesus is very forgiving.
Heavendweller
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RE: Advice on unmarried couple... - 6/10/2008 2:14:06 PM
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Heavendweller
Posts: 553
Joined: 12/22/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: cow451
And :
Claims Adjustors
Contractors
So it's OK to be in the Mafia as long as you don't get paid to kill anybody?? I might need a scriptural reference on that one.
Sorry for offending, cow. Somehow I just knew that would happen cuz my list was incomplete or deficient. So I'll add to that list:
Mafia member of any stripe and all stripes
Mafia members of all ethnicities, religions, and belief systems
Terrorists
Terrorists of all ethnicities, religions, and belief systems
And you, dear lad, forgot to include claims adjustors of all races, religions, ethnicities and belief systems.
The same for contractors.
And now, to pre-empt any who may deem it necessary to criticize or impugn me for any other groups, sub-cultures, class structures not included on the list...I plead not guilty due to being imperfect in knowledge. Therefore, I encourage you to add to my list of reprobate sinners. On one condition, of course, that they be PRACTICING sinners only. Whoops, quess I'm being discriminatory again.
Heavendweller
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RE: Advice on unmarried couple... - 6/10/2008 2:22:01 PM
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Heavendweller
Posts: 553
Joined: 12/22/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Bro_Shane
I feel you have been duped, another victim of the hippy Jesus hype.
Jesus Christ Superstar, "Godspell" Jesus in Superman outfit. "Last Temptation of Christ" Jesus.
All so appealing, don'cha think? Now appealing to what is the question.
Heavendweller
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RE: Advice on unmarried couple... - 6/10/2008 2:26:46 PM
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MrFribbles
Posts: 963
Joined: 1/29/2007
From: Hawaii, but I've moved around since then
Status: offline
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quote:
On one condition, of course, that they be PRACTICING sinners only.
Do you never sin?
_____________________________
Reason is the natural order of truth; but imagination is the organ of meaning.
-C. S. Lewis
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RE: Advice on unmarried couple... - 6/10/2008 2:36:22 PM
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Heavendweller
Posts: 553
Joined: 12/22/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Ps103
That is why I recommend you leave this to your pastor.
Can you not trust your pastor to do the right thing?
Psalm,
I understand what you're saying here. Not having attended her church, I cannot answer for the pastor's character.
However, something similar happened in the church I used to attend. Two people were living together who were not married. They were engaged, but not married. They'd been living together for a few years prior to attending our church. Soon, they openly began taking Communion together. This went on for some time.
My husband first inquired of an elder as to why this was permitted. The elder said that it bothered him too. But who was he to say anything? After all, he had once lived with his wife prior to being married. (Even though they were not Christians at that time.)
Then my husband inquired of the Sunday School teacher regarding the situation. She too, was aware of this couple living together. She said the pastor was known for being non-confrontational, admitting that this was a weakness of his.
A few weeks later, the elder approached the pastor and referred to his conversation with my husband regarding the couple. That same day, my husband was called into the pastor's office and "called on the carpet" for his "wrong" behavior. The pastor said he had already spoken to the male of the couple, who said that he was afraid to "commit" to marriage after having been married once before.
So the situation continued. They are still attending the church, and are still unmarried. And we no longer attend that church.
Heavendweller
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RE: Advice on unmarried couple... - 6/10/2008 2:46:05 PM
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rcjames
Posts: 5054
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: cow451
Ahhhhh, so the unsaved can be invited to church. That's refreshing.
Invited to; yes, part of; absolutely not.
I believe the plan is that if you know some one wll evough to invite them; then you should have already presented the gospel to them and then you can bring a new convert to Chiurch with you.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Advice on unmarried couple... - 6/10/2008 2:47:54 PM
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rcjames
Posts: 5054
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: MrFribbles
quote:
On one condition, of course, that they be PRACTICING sinners only.
Do you never sin?
I think the question should be are you walking in sin or practicing sin?
Because if you are; John says you are not a Christian.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Advice on unmarried couple... - 6/10/2008 2:56:06 PM
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Bro_Shane
Posts: 1116
Joined: 8/4/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: MrFribbles
quote:
On one condition, of course, that they be PRACTICING sinners only.
Do you never sin?
I think the question should be are you walking in sin or practicing sin?
Because if you are; John says you are not a Christian.
Thanks
RC
Be careful, brother. You know that kind of thing flies in the face of what most people believe. A god of love would never say that, right?  [sarcasm also drips from my fingers as I type this]
The only thing that I seem to learn when I come to these forums is that the church, as a whole, has utterly failed in teaching God's word to God's people and that God's people really don't want them to.
Of course, RC, you are right.
_____________________________
I'm baaaack!
Now, where was that Benny Hinn thread?
Numbah One OG Thread Killa
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RE: Advice on unmarried couple... - 6/10/2008 2:56:13 PM
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Heavendweller
Posts: 553
Joined: 12/22/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
Heavendweller
On one condition, of course, that they be PRACTICING sinners only.
MrFribbles
Do you never sin?
Actually, I just had a huge party with all kinds of PRACTICING sin taking place, drunkeness, drug taking, even a strip teaser showed up! And we were a bunch of happy, spirit-filled Christians.
Now where did I put that bong anyhow? Gotta go soon. Gotta cop a deal with the local crack supplier. I'm runnin' low.
And then it's off to the local novelties shop. Then from there, a stop at the local bar, where a buzz is anticipated. And with the gas prices these days, I hope to hang with the gang and siphon a few gallons later tonight. I'll make sure to do it in the rich section of town where it won't affect them.
Sin, me? Nah, not in the least Mr. Fribbles!
Heavendweller
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RE: Advice on unmarried couple... - 6/10/2008 3:42:43 PM
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Heavendweller
Posts: 553
Joined: 12/22/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Covaan_Meshuga
There is no place in the Bible that tells us to bring the unsaved to the church. There is, however, a lot of giving the Gospel out on the street, in prisons, and in homes.
Seems there is a disagreement on this thread as to what the purpose of church is.
I've never heard of this approach (above). My understanding of the Early Church is that the Catechumens were allowed to attend the liturgy/worship, but were told to exit the congregation of believers just prior to The Lord's Supper. This was a time of unique spiritual fellowship between believing Christians only.
As to how things should be done today, I'm still learning. Although Holy Scripture teaches that the partaking of The Lord's Supper/Holy Communion is for believers in Christ only. Serious warnings apply even to those who call themselves Christians, but are living in serious, unrepentant sin.
However, assuming someone is living in serious sin of any kind would go under the category of wrongly judging your brother/sister.
Heavendweller
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RE: Advice on unmarried couple... - 6/10/2008 5:03:37 PM
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cow451
Posts: 3831
Joined: 5/6/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: cow451
Ahhhhh, so the unsaved can be invited to church. That's refreshing.
Invited to; yes, part of; absolutely not.
I believe the plan is that if you know some one wll evough to invite them; then you should have already presented the gospel to them and then you can bring a new convert to Chiurch with you.
Thanks
RC
So I can invite them, but they have to convert before the can actually attend.
Joe: I'm finding these discussions about your religion interesting. But frankly, sometimes I'm not so sure you aren't just making some of thjis up."
Me: "Don't take my word for it. Pastor RC is bringing a another stirring message on the teachings of Jesus this Sunday. Let me come by and pick you up on the wa | | |
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