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RE: Alternative Candidates - 6/4/2008 4:24:42 PM
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Solus
Posts: 100
Joined: 5/27/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
quote:
ORIGINAL: Solus
No, I am just unwilling to vote for McCain because I know that he will make a horrible president.
So you plan to take your ball and go home. Mature decision....
No. I'm just not going to vote for who I think the winner will be just because I'm told he is one of only two possibilities.
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RE: Alternative Candidates - 6/4/2008 4:24:57 PM
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JimboFletch
Posts: 6504
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rhippie
Then I would submit that for you the issue is not whether one candidate is better for the country than the other; the issue is voting for the "winner" ...
Nope. It's a matter of NOT voting for a 100% guaranteed loser that will not affect a thing.
I don't know who will be president next year, but it will not be any alternative candidate. You may posture and call names until you're blue in the face, but that is a fact.
I will help choose YOUR next POTUS because you aren't willing to.
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RE: Alternative Candidates - 6/4/2008 4:26:54 PM
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JimboFletch
Posts: 6504
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Solus
...just because I'm told he is one of only two possibilities.
Can you, with a straight face, assert that there is even a remote chance that your alternative candidate won't lose?
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RE: Alternative Candidates - 6/4/2008 4:28:15 PM
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rhippie
Posts: 617
Joined: 4/13/2005
From: Rich The Hippie
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While Jimbo may be correct when he states that a third party candidate cannot be elected (a point which is arguable btw) I am going to vote third party this year but am unsure of which person to vote for. If everyone voted for the person they would like to see in the office instead of the person they think will "win" then it may turn out that POTUS gets elected with less than a 50% conscensus of the popular vote but if 1/3 of the voters would cast their vote according to their conscience and not political expediency then at least the ground could be prepped for the next election in four years.
As to whether we can afford to wait four years and endure four years of Obama or McCain....what's the difference? They're both freakin' liberals
_____________________________
Stand up for what's right....even if you're standing alone
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RE: Alternative Candidates - 6/4/2008 4:28:33 PM
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Solus
Posts: 100
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JimboFletch, can't you see that the Republican party is just taking your vote for granted? I am hoping that the Republican party loses, and loses horribly. I expect Obama to win. My hope is that the Republican party will wake up and realize that they cannot keep taking our votes for granted, and that they need to return to the ideals that they were founded upon.
But as long as people like you continue to vote for someone just out of party loyalty nothing will change.
rhippie, I agree. Please check out Bob Barr. I am hoping that the constitution party and the libertarian party will come together since their candidates are so similar this year. Then it will without a doubt be a three man race.
< Message edited by Solus -- 6/4/2008 4:37:35 PM >
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RE: Alternative Candidates - 6/4/2008 4:32:39 PM
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rhippie
Posts: 617
Joined: 4/13/2005
From: Rich The Hippie
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
quote:
ORIGINAL: rhippie
Then I would submit that for you the issue is not whether one candidate is better for the country than the other; the issue is voting for the "winner" ...
Nope. It's a matter of NOT voting for a 100% guaranteed loser that will not affect a thing.
I don't know who will be president next year, but it will not be any alternative candidate. You may posture and call names until you're blue in the face, but that is a fact.
I will help choose YOUR next POTUS because you aren't willing to.
WOW!!! Talk about condescending!! You've got a lot of chutzpah to assume that I won't vote or that because I won't vote according to your preconcieved notion of right/wrong that I am unwilling to choose. [edited to avoid TOS violations}
_____________________________
Stand up for what's right....even if you're standing alone
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RE: Alternative Candidates - 6/4/2008 4:35:06 PM
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bzirk
Posts: 3074
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From: Where the deer and antelope play
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rhippie
quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
Don't kid yourself, EVERYBODY settles. Everybody.
The difference between us voting GOP or Dem and those voting for "alternatives" is that our vote stands a chance of putting someone in the Whitehouse and theirs do not. Nada, Zip.
Voting "Alternative" is just opting out of the system and pretending to do something. Going to the polls only salves their guilt of staying home during this crucial election.
What "crucial election"? The choice is between what, other than the Iraq war? From all I've seen neither one of the two "non-alternatives" is worth a thimbleful of warm spit!
Rich,
I'm tired of hearing how we just have to live with this; just go along. I've done that way too long.
Frankly, I'm mad at myself for going along so many years. 
_____________________________
Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus (Romans 8:1)
Great quote: I just ain't God and don't know it all. -- SonInMe1
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RE: Alternative Candidates - 6/4/2008 4:36:12 PM
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Solus
Posts: 100
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bzirk
quote:
ORIGINAL: rhippie
quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
Don't kid yourself, EVERYBODY settles. Everybody.
The difference between us voting GOP or Dem and those voting for "alternatives" is that our vote stands a chance of putting someone in the Whitehouse and theirs do not. Nada, Zip.
Voting "Alternative" is just opting out of the system and pretending to do something. Going to the polls only salves their guilt of staying home during this crucial election.
What "crucial election"? The choice is between what, other than the Iraq war? From all I've seen neither one of the two "non-alternatives" is worth a thimbleful of warm spit!
Rich,
I'm tired of hearing how we just have to live with this; just go along. I've done that way too long.
Frankly, I'm mad at myself for going along so many years.
Amen.
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RE: Alternative Candidates - 6/4/2008 4:40:12 PM
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PolarBear
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From: Moving to San Antonio!
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One reason to vote for a third party is that if it gets above a certain threshold (is it 5%? 15%? don't remember) it will get federal funding the next time, and possibly be allowed in the debates.
It's a step in ending the Republicrat duopoly.
And I don't admit that Barr has 0.00% chance of winning. With God anything is possible.
Me, I need to think and pray about it. I'll be voting for either McCain or Barr, but haven't decided which.
_____________________________
My current ministry dream:
http://victorymuseum.org
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RE: Alternative Candidates - 6/4/2008 4:40:56 PM
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JimboFletch
Posts: 6504
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rhippie
WOW!!! Talk about condescending!! You've got a lot of chutzpah to assume that I won't vote or that because I won't vote according to your preconcieved notion of right/wrong that I am unwilling to choose. [edited to avoid TOS violations}
I didn't say you weren't voting. But if you are voting 3rd party, you might as well not vote. But it's your choice.
If you want to call realism "chutzpah" or call me any other name that you think will advance your high moral ground, feel free. But there is zero chance of an "alternative" candidate becoming president. Can't change that with posturing or hubris.
And if you are voting 3rd party, I will be one of those that will help choose YOUR next president.
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RE: Alternative Candidates - 6/4/2008 4:42:22 PM
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JimboFletch
Posts: 6504
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Solus
But as long as people like you continue to vote for someone just out of party loyalty nothing will change.
LOL! You think I'm a registered Republican?
Nope, not so.
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RE: Alternative Candidates - 6/4/2008 4:46:00 PM
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Solus
Posts: 100
Joined: 5/27/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
quote:
ORIGINAL: Solus
But as long as people like you continue to vote for someone just out of party loyalty nothing will change.
LOL! You think I'm a registered Republican?
Nope, not so.
I think that you are voting Republican because you belive that they and the Democrats are the top dogs and always will be and that anything else is a wasted vote. But, if you remember, the Republican Party used to be a third party. A few disgruntled Whigs decided to create a new party and soon after their candidate, Abraham Lincoln, was elected. It's been done once, why is it so unfathomable for it to be done again?
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RE: Alternative Candidates - 6/4/2008 4:54:35 PM
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bzirk
Posts: 3074
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Where the deer and antelope play
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Solus
quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
quote:
ORIGINAL: Solus
But as long as people like you continue to vote for someone just out of party loyalty nothing will change.
LOL! You think I'm a registered Republican?
Nope, not so.
I think that you are voting Republican because you belive that they and the Democrats are the top dogs and always will be and that anything else is a wasted vote. But, if you remember, the Republican Party used to be a third party. A few disgruntled Whigs decided to create a new party and soon after their candidate, Abraham Lincoln, was elected. It's been done once, why is it so unfathomable for it to be done again?
It's been done more than once. Teddy Roosevelt was elected by a third party that arose from disgruntled Republicans.
_____________________________
Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus (Romans 8:1)
Great quote: I just ain't God and don't know it all. -- SonInMe1
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RE: Alternative Candidates - 6/4/2008 4:58:11 PM
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cog41
Posts: 640
Joined: 7/16/2006
From: The Great State of Texas
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As mentioned earlier third parties need to build a base on the local,county and state levels. BUT they need to get aggressive and Get Going!
Now is the time for third party candidates to focus campaigning for 2012 presidency. Yes,run for it now but realize you're actually getting your name out for 12. In the meantime the other members go for the locals states, and Congress.
I'll vote for Barr or McCain.
God help us. Deliver us from ourselves.
_____________________________
Psalm 122:6 Pray for the peace of Jerusalem: "May they prosper who love you."
Hook'em Horns! Roll Tide!
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RE: Alternative Candidates - 6/4/2008 4:58:51 PM
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JimboFletch
Posts: 6504
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Solus
I think that you are voting Republican because you belive that they and the Democrats are the top dogs and always will be and that anything else is a wasted vote.
Nope, it's not what I believe, I KNOW so.
Also, I think description of the start of the Republican party is a little simplistic and incomplete. Almost like a version one might expect from a 3rd party web site.
In any case, there isn't the tiniest evidence that any alternative party has the grass roots support to make a serious run for the presidency. All that exists is a pipe dream of a fraction of the voters.
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RE: Alternative Candidates - 6/4/2008 5:00:25 PM
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Solus
Posts: 100
Joined: 5/27/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: cog41
As mentioned earlier third parties need to build a base on the local,county and state levels. BUT they need to get aggressive and Get Going!
Now is the time for third party candidates to focus campaigning for 2012 presidency. Yes,run for it now but realize you're actually getting your name out for 12. In the meantime the other members go for the locals states, and Congress.
I'll vote for Barr or McCain.
God help us. Deliver us from ourselves.
Well, McCain supports the REAL ID act as well as the PATRIOT Act. They are both very similar to 1984.
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RE: Alternative Candidates - 6/4/2008 5:01:46 PM
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JimboFletch
Posts: 6504
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quote:
It's been done more than once. Teddy Roosevelt was elected by a third party that arose from disgruntled Republicans.
Lisa, are you sure about that? If I remember, Teddy Roosevelt, one of the most popular presidents we had, tried to make a run on his Bull Moose Party and failed miserably - not elected.
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RE: Alternative Candidates - 6/4/2008 5:03:19 PM
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cog41
Posts: 640
Joined: 7/16/2006
From: The Great State of Texas
Status: offline
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I know I said 2012,But you know what I mean.
heck they start running for office so early now I can't keep up with any of them.
Maybe we need to regulate the campaign times?
_____________________________
Psalm 122:6 Pray for the peace of Jerusalem: "May they prosper who love you."
Hook'em Horns! Roll Tide!
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RE: Alternative Candidates - 6/4/2008 5:03:53 PM
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Jeff_from_Kentucky
Posts: 1621
Joined: 7/5/2006
From: Kentucky
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For those who are refusing to vote for a third party and are constantly ridiculing and belittling those of us who are voting third party, congratulations for falling victim to the brainwashing that the media and the republicrats have been putting out there for several decades. You all are part of the problem because you won't stand up for what you believe in. Instead, you mindlessly follow the crowd, which is exactly what the media and the republicrats want and why things are not changing.
Obama talks about change we can believe in, and that is all it is, just talk. If you want real change, stop voting for the republicrats simply because the media tells you that you have no other choice. Vote for something you really believe in.
_____________________________
<< Frank Seamans and my son Jeffrey - September, 2007
"For me to live is Christ and to die is gain." Philippians 1:21
Dispatchers tell cops where to go!
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RE: Alternative Candidates - 6/4/2008 5:05:06 PM
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JimboFletch
Posts: 6504
Joined: 4/11/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
quote:
It's been done more than once. Teddy Roosevelt was elected by a third party that arose from disgruntled Republicans.
Lisa, are you sure about that? If I remember, Teddy Roosevelt, one of the most popular presidents we had, tried to make a run on his Bull Moose Party and failed miserably - not elected.
Regarding Teddy:
After 1906 he attacked big business and suggested the courts were biased against labor unions. In 1910, he broke with his friend and anointed successor William Howard Taft, but lost the Republican nomination to Taft and ran in the 1912 election on his own one-time Bull Moose ticket. He beat Taft in the popular vote and pulled so many Progressives out of the Republican Party that Democrat Thomas Woodrow Wilson won in 1912, and the conservative faction took control of the Republican Party for the next two decades.
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RE: Alternative Candidates - 6/4/2008 5:07:03 PM
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JimboFletch
Posts: 6504
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Jeff_from_Kentucky
For those who are refusing to vote for a third party and are constantly ridiculing and belittling those of us who are voting third party, congratulations for falling victim to the brainwashing that the media and the republicrats have been putting out there for several decades. You all are part of the problem because you won't stand up for what you believe in. Instead, you mindlessly follow the crowd, which is exactly what the media and the republicrats want and why things are not changing.
Obama talks about change we can believe in, and that is all it is, just talk. If you want real change, stop voting for the republicrats simply because the media tells you that you have no other choice. Vote for something you really believe in.
You criticize Obama for just talk while praising a vote for someone that will not, cannot become president. Amazing.
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RE: Alternative Candidates - 6/4/2008 5:08:33 PM
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Solus
Posts: 100
Joined: 5/27/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
quote:
ORIGINAL: Jeff_from_Kentucky
For those who are refusing to vote for a third party and are constantly ridiculing and belittling those of us who are voting third party, congratulations for falling victim to the brainwashing that the media and the republicrats have been putting out there for several decades. You all are part of the problem because you won't stand up for what you believe in. Instead, you mindlessly follow the crowd, which is exactly what the media and the republicrats want and why things are not changing.
Obama talks about change we can believe in, and that is all it is, just talk. If you want real change, stop voting for the republicrats simply because the media tells you that you have no other choice. Vote for something you really believe in.
You criticize Obama for just talk while praising a vote for someone that will not, cannot become president. Amazing.
You have yet to prove why he will not, cannot become president.
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RE: Alternative Candidates - 6/4/2008 5:13:01 PM
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bzirk
Posts: 3074
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Where the deer and antelope play
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
quote:
It's been done more than once. Teddy Roosevelt was elected by a third party that arose from disgruntled Republicans.
Lisa, are you sure about that? If I remember, Teddy Roosevelt, one of the most popular presidents we had, tried to make a run on his Bull Moose Party and failed miserably - not elected.
You're right. I guess I had a blip on the brain. My husband was just laughing at me about this. Maybe I want to believe it so badly I'm not thinking clearly. LOL!
Okay, back to the serious issues. 
The success of third parties is not so much about having a president elected but to influence how the voters think. I'd be satisfied with that. The Republican party needs a little shake up.
_____________________________
Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus (Romans 8:1)
Great quote: I just ain't God and don't know it all. -- SonInMe1
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RE: Alternative Candidates - 6/4/2008 5:23:57 PM
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JimboFletch
Posts: 6504
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bzirk
The success of third parties is not so much about having a president elected but to influence how the voters think. I'd be satisfied with that. The Republican party needs a little shake up.
I agree we need to shake up the party, but just handing the presidency to the Democrat's offerings seems like cutting off your nose to spite your face. The consequences of 4 years of a liberal president with a Democratically controlled Congress is, IMO, the worst possible combination.
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