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RE: Calling Child Protective Services - 6/23/2008 3:05:57 PM
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TorchHeart
Posts: 1081
Joined: 6/4/2008
From: One of the coldest places on Earth
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quote:
ORIGINAL: DenimDiva
I didn't just have a bad experience. Anyone I personally know who has dealt with them has had nothing good to say about them.
Have you ever tried contacting a Congressman or someone in political office who might be able to step in and correct the system? It is possible that in your state, there are problems with the system that need correcting, but nobody at a higher level is aware of them.
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RE: Calling Child Protective Services - 6/23/2008 3:09:32 PM
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DenimDiva
Posts: 6266
Joined: 9/28/2007
From: CA
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quote:
ORIGINAL: TorchHeart
quote:
ORIGINAL: DenimDiva
I didn't just have a bad experience. Anyone I personally know who has dealt with them has had nothing good to say about them.
Have you ever tried contacting a Congressman or someone in political office who might be able to step in and correct the system? It is possible that in your state, there are problems with the system that need correcting, but nobody at a higher level is aware of them.
I've lived in several states.
The gov't knows the system doesn't work. I don't know what the gov't plans to do about it.
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RE: Calling Child Protective Services - 6/23/2008 3:09:34 PM
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TorchHeart
Posts: 1081
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From: One of the coldest places on Earth
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quote:
ORIGINAL: DenimDiva
Church, family, neighbors, friends should be how this family is helped.
Also, I was just looking over this. Again, with all due respect, how are these organizations going to help this family better than official/expert intervention?
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RE: Calling Child Protective Services - 6/23/2008 3:10:16 PM
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manda59
Posts: 5710
Joined: 9/22/2005
From: Hampshire, UK
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quote:
ORIGINAL: TorchHeart
Believe me, it isn't. I work at a hospital. I can tell you that there are MANY instances where CPS has stepped in when abusive and/or dangerous situations have occured and put the children in a much more safe environment. My wife also works at a hospital in the O.B. ward. She has personally been involved in cases where babies and other children have been taken away because CPS was called in due to dangerous situations at home (such as maternal drug use, neglectful situations in the past, etc.)
Church, family, neighbors, and friends are wonderful SUPPORT systems, but I'm afraid that simply talking to these people and praying for them isn't going to do a whole heck of a lot, if anything at all. We have a situation where we know for fact that the mother is being abused, and that at least one of the children probably isn't being properly cared for.
Legal action needs to be taken if these children are in danger, and (as some very well-experience people have stated before), it must be handled carefully so that the correct action IS taken. Otherwise this WILL end badly. The Child Protective Services organizations in our communities may not be the best system. Yes, people fall through the cracks sometimes, but they're the only system we've got right now, and they should be used in cases like this.
Thing is, THERE IS NO EVIDENCE other than the boy's tonsils - everything else is hearsay. Here in the UK, you cannot take legal action based on hearsay, and I don't think it's any different over there.
The best way forward is to talk to the BOY about himself speaking to the CPS, or to a doctor, policeman or other professional person who will then be able to mobilise the CPS to take action on his behalf. His testimony would be taken as EVIDENCE.
_____________________________
"I love Manda's suggestion to just laugh most of it off.."
Tinkerbell, September 2008
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RE: Calling Child Protective Services - 6/23/2008 3:10:50 PM
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TorchHeart
Posts: 1081
Joined: 6/4/2008
From: One of the coldest places on Earth
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: DenimDiva
quote:
ORIGINAL: TorchHeart
quote:
ORIGINAL: DenimDiva
I didn't just have a bad experience. Anyone I personally know who has dealt with them has had nothing good to say about them.
Have you ever tried contacting a Congressman or someone in political office who might be able to step in and correct the system? It is possible that in your state, there are problems with the system that need correcting, but nobody at a higher level is aware of them.
I've lived in several states.
The gov't knows the system doesn't work. I don't know what the gov't plans to do about it.
I can tell you just as many stories from different states and places where I've lived where it DOES work. If there are problems with it, then people like us have to step up and inform those with the power to make changes that changes need to be made.
I fear we're drifting off the topic, here, though. I don't want to get into an argument about whether the system does or doesn't work, and I'm sorry if I've started something.
I'm trying to figure out what other options would be better than CPS, and what advantages they'd have.
< Message edited by TorchHeart -- 6/23/2008 3:17:56 PM >
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RE: Calling Child Protective Services - 6/23/2008 3:17:23 PM
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TorchHeart
Posts: 1081
Joined: 6/4/2008
From: One of the coldest places on Earth
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quote:
ORIGINAL: manda59
quote:
ORIGINAL: TorchHeart
Believe me, it isn't. I work at a hospital. I can tell you that there are MANY instances where CPS has stepped in when abusive and/or dangerous situations have occured and put the children in a much more safe environment. My wife also works at a hospital in the O.B. ward. She has personally been involved in cases where babies and other children have been taken away because CPS was called in due to dangerous situations at home (such as maternal drug use, neglectful situations in the past, etc.)
Church, family, neighbors, and friends are wonderful SUPPORT systems, but I'm afraid that simply talking to these people and praying for them isn't going to do a whole heck of a lot, if anything at all. We have a situation where we know for fact that the mother is being abused, and that at least one of the children probably isn't being properly cared for.
Legal action needs to be taken if these children are in danger, and (as some very well-experience people have stated before), it must be handled carefully so that the correct action IS taken. Otherwise this WILL end badly. The Child Protective Services organizations in our communities may not be the best system. Yes, people fall through the cracks sometimes, but they're the only system we've got right now, and they should be used in cases like this.
Thing is, THERE IS NO EVIDENCE other than the boy's tonsils - everything else is hearsay. Here in the UK, you cannot take legal action based on hearsay, and I don't think it's any different over there.
The best way forward is to talk to the BOY about himself speaking to the CPS, or to a doctor, policeman or other professional person who will then be able to mobilise the CPS to take action on his behalf. His testimony would be taken as EVIDENCE.
Noted, and agreed with. I wasn't trying to advocate the OP going to Child Services and trying to pass this off. I was simply trying to make a point about how their involvement isn't a bad thing (if it comes to that).
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RE: Calling Child Protective Services - 6/23/2008 3:20:07 PM
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Ellie-Mae
Posts: 4143
Joined: 4/9/2005
From: The EMPIRE state!
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quote:
I work at a hospital.
which is why some of us are trying to get the doctor involved. Medical professionals carry more weight with CPS so it is more likely that something good could come of it.
Just because you make a phone call to someone in government (or many people) or even take the CPS to court will not mean that anything will change. They cover their own.
I am not saying that no one should do anything, but most people don't have the resources to pick a fight with CPS. And if you do, you have to weigh the cost... which could be YOUR family.
< Message edited by Ellie-Mae -- 6/23/2008 3:26:27 PM >
_____________________________
Isaiah 40:29
He giveth power to the faint; and to them that have no might he increaseth strength.
W2D1
292 more miles to go!
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RE: Calling Child Protective Services - 6/23/2008 3:25:55 PM
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Karaboo2
Posts: 1886
Joined: 2/4/2008
From: Ontario, Canada
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: TorchHeart
Just because you had a bad experience with it, doesn't mean that the entire system is broken.
Believe me, it isn't. I work at a hospital. I can tell you that there are MANY instances where CPS has stepped in when abusive and/or dangerous situations have occured and put the children in a much more safe environment. My wife also works at a hospital in the O.B. ward. She has personally been involved in cases where babies and other children have been taken away because CPS was called in due to dangerous situations at home (such as maternal drug use, neglectful situations in the past, etc.)
And there is a huge difference between you and the rest of us ... your workplace is an "official reporting agency" ... if a hospital calls CPS, they are required to act, AND confidentiality is guaranteed. If it is just Jane Smith calling, they don't always act, and quite often they let hints slip about who called them in to investigate. This is an unfortunate double standard with the system -- and it is worsening, instead of improving.
_____________________________
Kara
Tea Drinkers Anonymous
<-- Caleb Nicholas 08/15/08
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RE: Calling Child Protective Services - 6/23/2008 3:30:36 PM
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TorchHeart
Posts: 1081
Joined: 6/4/2008
From: One of the coldest places on Earth
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Karaboo2
And there is a huge difference between you and the rest of us ... your workplace is an "official reporting agency" ... if a hospital calls CPS, they are required to act, AND confidentiality is guaranteed. If it is just Jane Smith calling, they don't always act, and quite often they let hints slip about who called them in to investigate. This is an unfortunate double standard with the system -- and it is worsening, instead of improving.
OK. I think I'm missing something here.
Are people saying that the system is broken because Joe Citizen can't call CPS and report abusive/dangerous situations?
Or are people saying that the system is broken because nobody will step in to stop these situations no matter who calls?
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RE: Calling Child Protective Services - 6/23/2008 3:31:19 PM
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Ellie-Mae
Posts: 4143
Joined: 4/9/2005
From: The EMPIRE state!
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It is the way it is here, and quite frankly it has more to do with Clinton than Bush, although I am not a huge fan of either one. And no, the officials here don't seem to care.
_____________________________
Isaiah 40:29
He giveth power to the faint; and to them that have no might he increaseth strength.
W2D1
292 more miles to go!
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RE: Calling Child Protective Services - 6/23/2008 3:31:57 PM
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DenimDiva
Posts: 6266
Joined: 9/28/2007
From: CA
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Karaboo2
quote:
ORIGINAL: TorchHeart
Just because you had a bad experience with it, doesn't mean that the entire system is broken.
Believe me, it isn't. I work at a hospital. I can tell you that there are MANY instances where CPS has stepped in when abusive and/or dangerous situations have occured and put the children in a much more safe environment. My wife also works at a hospital in the O.B. ward. She has personally been involved in cases where babies and other children have been taken away because CPS was called in due to dangerous situations at home (such as maternal drug use, neglectful situations in the past, etc.)
And there is a huge difference between you and the rest of us ... your workplace is an "official reporting agency" ... if a hospital calls CPS, they are required to act, AND confidentiality is guaranteed. If it is just Jane Smith calling, they don't always act, and quite often they let hints slip about who called them in to investigate. This is an unfortunate double standard with the system -- and it is worsening, instead of improving.
I agree. Each time I called CPS I was strongly encouraged to leave my name. The times that I did, I was found out even though CPS promised me confidentiality. I didn't even tell my family members, pastor, friends, etc. that I made the phone call. God, myself and CPS were the only ones that knew I made the calls. I'm pretty sure God didn't rat me out and I know I didn't tattle on myself, so that leaves just CPS to give out the confidential information. 
I've had this happen more than once.
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RE: Calling Child Protective Services - 6/23/2008 3:38:00 PM
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Ellie-Mae
Posts: 4143
Joined: 4/9/2005
From: The EMPIRE state!
Status: offline
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I have had to makee calls only to have CPS blunder it. It seems like if the family is already on a lot of assistance from the government, then they are content even if the children are being sexually of physically abused. The police themselves are a little better about it, but it won't work as well in the OP situation.
If you take CPS to court, often it is held in their own building where they get to call the shots and the rulings don't even make any sense.
_____________________________
Isaiah 40:29
He giveth power to the faint; and to them that have no might he increaseth strength.
W2D1
292 more miles to go!
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RE: Calling Child Protective Services - 6/23/2008 3:43:43 PM
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TorchHeart
Posts: 1081
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From: One of the coldest places on Earth
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So a majority of the problems people have with CPS are regarding the fact that they don't respond well to calls from the average citizen, so you have to get a hospital or someone in a law enforcement position to bring the case before them before action is taken. Is that a correct statement?
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RE: Calling Child Protective Services - 6/23/2008 3:45:32 PM
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TorchHeart
Posts: 1081
Joined: 6/4/2008
From: One of the coldest places on Earth
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quote:
ORIGINAL: TorchHeart
quote:
ORIGINAL: DenimDiva
Church, family, neighbors, friends should be how this family is helped.
Also, I was just looking over this. Again, with all due respect, how are these organizations going to help this family better than official/expert intervention?
Also, nobody answered this question of mine. How are these groups of people going to help a family such as this more than CPS if they were to be involved?
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RE: Calling Child Protective Services - 6/23/2008 3:47:33 PM
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Karaboo2
Posts: 1886
Joined: 2/4/2008
From: Ontario, Canada
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: TorchHeart
So a majority of the problems people have with CPS are regarding the fact that they don't respond well to calls from the average citizen, so you have to get a hospital or someone in a law enforcement position to bring the case before them before action is taken. Is that a correct statement?
Yes, that would be a fairly accurate statement. Hospitals, law enforcement, schools ... all carry a lot more weight than Joe Brown and Mary Smith.
_____________________________
Kara
Tea Drinkers Anonymous
<-- Caleb Nicholas 08/15/08
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RE: Calling Child Protective Services - 6/23/2008 3:52:42 PM
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Karaboo2
Posts: 1886
Joined: 2/4/2008
From: Ontario, Canada
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: TorchHeart
quote:
ORIGINAL: DenimDiva
Church, family, neighbors, friends should be how this family is helped.
Also, nobody answered this question of mine. How are these groups of people going to help a family such as this more than CPS if they were to be involved?
The family in question needs a larger support network, as does the OP (in regard to trying to help this family) ... the more people you have praying and supporting you, the easier it is to brainstorm solutions which could benefit all, without worrying about a horrible backlash after the fact. It isn't necessarily that these people could help *more* than CPS, but with CPS not treating the calls of the average person with as much respect and confidentiality as an "official agency", it would be 'better' for the OP to go the route of personal supports.
_____________________________
Kara
Tea Drinkers Anonymous
<-- Caleb Nicholas 08/15/08
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RE: Calling Child Protective Services - 6/23/2008 4:00:39 PM
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TorchHeart
Posts: 1081
Joined: 6/4/2008
From: One of the coldest places on Earth
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Karaboo2
quote:
ORIGINAL: TorchHeart
quote:
ORIGINAL: DenimDiva
Church, family, neighbors, friends should be how this family is helped.
Also, nobody answered this question of mine. How are these groups of people going to help a family such as this more than CPS if they were to be involved?
The family in question needs a larger support network, as does the OP (in regard to trying to help this family) ... the more people you have praying and supporting you, the easier it is to brainstorm solutions which could benefit all, without worrying about a horrible backlash after the fact. It isn't necessarily that these people could help *more* than CPS, but with CPS not treating the calls of the average person with as much respect and confidentiality as an "official agency", it would be 'better' for the OP to go the route of personal supports.
OK. This is an answer I can understand.
And personally, I can understand why CPS doesn't take the calls of the average Joe Citizen as strongly as a hospital, lawyer, etc. With all due respect to those of you who are calling in for legitimate reasons, I know for fact that CPS gets a lot of calls from people who are trying to abuse the system with false information and use it as a means of revenge, or who misinterpret what they see because they're not "trained professionals" (which i know is aggravating, because how "trained" do you have to be to tell that a kid is getting abused as you see him get hit repeatedly with a belt, or something like that).
While this DOES NOT justify giving out information that they promise to keep private, it does explain why they are more hessitant to act on calls from the average citizen. As Manda said, hospitals have trained experts who can document cases of abuse and provide evidence for CPS to act on; the average citizen does not.
< Message edited by TorchHeart -- 6/23/2008 4:27:16 PM >
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RE: Calling Child Protective Services - 6/23/2008 5:29:37 PM
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sen10tious
Posts: 360
Joined: 4/11/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: TorchHeart
So a majority of the problems people have with CPS are regarding the fact that they don't respond well to calls from the average citizen, so you have to get a hospital or someone in a law enforcement position to bring the case before them before action is taken. Is that a correct statement?
No. The majority of problems I have with CPS is due to massive system-wide failure. Ultimately, it is due to Satan’s hatred of the family, God’s basic social unit.
There are spiritual being in the heavens that affect the operation of things on earth. I don’t want this to get moved to the Theology thread so I’ll be as brief as I can; just offer a couple references to form a base: Daniel 4:26—Nebuchadnezzar had to learn that spiritual beings influenced his government. Eph 6:12—Our struggle is against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places.
Two different powers are at war in the heavenly realm. One is the power of God who created the family. The other is Satan, a deceptive , calculating plunderer who hates God and is out to destroy families. To this end, Satan will influence, deceive, and control every CPS official who permits it. One of Satan’s most effective lures is to deceive people into feeling as if they are doing something good and noble when they are actually in flagrant disobedience to God.
There are a handful of Christian CPS workers. They are not in the majority. There are a few who try to serve God; but everyday, all day, they are surrounded by co-workers who are being deceived by Satan. Some of that aberrant belief rubs off. As a whole, CPS does not view the family from a biblical perspective but from a grossly humanistic one that is heavily weighted towards feminist error and jezebel-like control. Satan has infiltrated CPS. And THAT is why they are never the best first choice.
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RE: Calling Child Protective Services - 6/23/2008 6:31:43 PM
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twinkly
Posts: 65
Joined: 6/21/2008
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I work as a case manager and we are mandated reporters. I am going to tell you here, in my state, I am disgusted with CPS. I don't know if they are back logged or what, but even cases that we report and the school reports (as I have children on my caseload so I work closely with the schools) take FOREVER to even be investigated. One child who is only 8 had already tried to kill herself. She is being raised by a grandmother who had ALL of her children taken away by CPS! Tell me what is wrong with that picture? She should have been taken away YEARS ago, and CPS has been involved for years. Never has this child been removed. I am grossly disgusted by the CPS system where I am. And again, we are an agency and the school system who are reporting. And still, nothing. Nothing but YEARS of supposed investigation and CPS saying to US "we need more documentation, more proof" ARE YOU KIDDING ME? The child is being raised by a woman who lost all her children. The child tried to kill herself!!! What more do you possibly need?
I am dumbfounded as to what to do anymore. No one seems to care anymore or take the time to protect these kids. It is disgusting.
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