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RE: CherishedbyGod wanted this - 6/21/2008 4:33:13 PM
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1dblthnk02
Posts: 689
Joined: 3/24/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: CherishedbyGod
Wow! I am impressed! You are correct, Mike.
Told ya; I can definitely talk the talk. I'm no biblical scholar, but I read the thing a time or two.
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Wouldn't you like to someday?
Right now would be even better.
I've got about a zillion questions . . . to which he'd probably reply, "Shut up, kid. You think that I bothered looking you up just so we could play Zillion Questions?!"
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(((gentle chuckle))) And you, my friend?
Why, I am the very model of rational, relevant debate bolstered by infallible logic.
That's my story, and I'm sticking to it . . .
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Not every Christian all the time "walks the walk".
That's true.
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Taking the bus is the easy way. I challenge you to get back in the race, fight the good fight of faith with the rest of us because we need you!
How about if I just become a real good preacher for money?
No? . . .
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Why don't you humble yourself and start seeking Him again, reminding Him and holding Him to His promises? God cannot lie to you, no matter what you currently think!
Well, you have challenged me to a major leap of faith here. I'll have to get to the place wherein I can even do this.
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Imagine that....a head swollen with intellect and having had Jesus appear to him, literally Methinks you might think of yourself as being the messiah
I forgot to mention before that my rational, relevant, infallible logic is only exceeded by my humility . . . more attempted humor.
I'll be back-- I've got something to do right now.
< Message edited by 1dblthnk02 -- 6/21/2008 4:40:18 PM >
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RE: CherishedbyGod wanted this - 6/21/2008 5:54:32 PM
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CherishedbyGod
Posts: 2406
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I'm busy, also today. But I will be back to reply to your replies as soon as possible.
In the meanwhile, here is an article that has helped me in my struggles... I hope you might get a chance to read it sometime.....
Blessings to you, Mike!
"When Thomas stood at a distance and watched as Jesus, already beaten beyond recognition (Isaiah 52:13-52:12) agonized on the cross and finally died, those sounds and images made an everlasting impression on his mind and heart and soul. For Thomas the promises of God had not only failed, they had been bitterly crushed into the mire and filth of human sin and wickedness. To the shocked and horrified eyes and heart and soul of Thomas, evil had won a complete victory over faith and God and everything pure and good. It was going to take something very great to convince him otherwise"
For the remainder of this article, please click below.....
http://www.faithwriters.com/article-details.php?id=32648
_____________________________
~I would love for you to come and learn about Jesus of Nazareth with me in the Writer's Roundtable Folder~
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RE: CherishedbyGod wanted this - 6/21/2008 9:18:37 PM
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CherishedbyGod
Posts: 2406
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Told ya; I can definitely talk the talk. I'm no biblical scholar, but I read the thing a time or two
You either have an incredible memory or you have read it more than a time or two. I've been amazed at your answers from the Bible. How much have you read it? Did you used to study it?
Oh, and a question I have been wanting to ask...Church of Christ? Aren't they the denomination that doesn't play music or sing?
Right now would be even better.
I've got about a zillion questions . . . to which he'd probably reply, "Shut up, kid. You think that I bothered looking you up just so we could play Zillion Questions?!"
Do I sense a crack in that thick wall around your heart? You can start asking Him now....He loves it when His beloveds come to Him for any reason! No, No, No! He would never tell you "shut up, kid". That is not His way. That is one thing about eternity...We will always be able to ask questions and never will have all the answers because He is the only one that does! Take that for a swipe at your intellect 
Why, I am the very model of rational, relevant debate bolstered by infallible logic.
I don't think I have ever seen such low blows from two without them getting TOS'ed  You guys were below the belt. I hadn't read many of your posts before so I didn' "know" you but I was quite surprised at Jhud 
How about if I just become a real good preacher for money?
No? . .
Ah...a closet Benny Hinn fan....
Well, you have challenged me to a major leap of faith here. I'll have to get to the place wherein I can even do this.
And where might that be? How about something like instead of considering it "a major leap of faith" doing something like looking into whether He is a trustworthy God? How about dropping for awhile things that lead to doubt and start looking into/studying things that point to how trustworthy He is? There are very intellegent people who have gone before you - atheists, etc. who, when considering the evidence, found that the evidence for His life, death and resurrection far outweighed the doubt that the enemy uses to send us into a tailspin.
Is it not indeed His faithfulness to you that is wooing you back to Himself?
_____________________________
~I would love for you to come and learn about Jesus of Nazareth with me in the Writer's Roundtable Folder~
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RE: CherishedbyGod wanted this - 6/22/2008 9:55:14 AM
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1dblthnk02
Posts: 689
Joined: 3/24/2008
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Okay, Virgina-- where were we?
quote:
ORIGINAL: CherishedbyGod
Good for you! I really mean that!
Thanks, but this is just my nature. I like to try to think my through problems and enigmas. I don't always reach rock-solid conclusions, but occassionally I surprize even myself with some of the things that I figure out.
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I'm not certain what you are refering to, but since you say this grace is from above, may I assume you recognize it is from God?
Yes, although I don't necessarily mean the God of bible.
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Bulls Eye
You see what I mean, then: it would be like Ricky Ricardo talking to Lucy, "Michael, you got some 'splainin' to do."
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You either have an incredible memory or you have read it more than a time or two. I've been amazed at your answers from the Bible. How much have you read it? Did you used to study it?
I studied the bible informally. I still do, actually. Computers and the internet make bible study about 100% easier and richer.
However, internet bible references and articles are definitely a tip toe through the mine fields of Kooksville.
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Oh, and a question I have been wanting to ask...Church of Christ? Aren't they the denomination that doesn't play music or sing?
Sing- yes. Instruments- no. At least, that's how it was in my day. It was kind of cool, though. From a very young age, I learned about vocal harmonies every Sunday and Wednesday.
I always wondered about the singing director: he would use a pitch pipe to find the key for each song. Isn't that a musical instrument in church? The horror!
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Do I sense a crack in that thick wall around your heart?
You wouldn't be the first to see me as cracked.
More humor . . . bear with me-- I'm working on it.
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He would never tell you "shut up, kid". That is not His way. That is one thing about eternity...We will always be able to ask questions and never will have all the answers because He is the only one that does! Take that for a swipe at your intellect
Hey, I'm all for getting answers from the ultimate answer man. I always loved the idea of Bullwinkle Moose's character Mr. Know-It-All, except that he didn't really know it all.
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I hadn't read many of your posts before so I didn' "know" you but I was quite surprised at Jhud
I wasn't. Wisdom is justified of her children.
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Ah...a closet Benny Hinn fan....
Actually, I am a fan of Benny Hinn's closet: row after row of the same suit!
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There are very intellegent people who have gone before you - atheists, etc. who, when considering the evidence, found that the evidence for His life, death and resurrection far outweighed the doubt that the enemy uses to send us into a tailspin.
Yes, the books by Lee Strobel come to mind here. It's good reading, too. But unfortunately, he tends to commit certain logical fallacies, and I was able to topple many of his arguments.
There have been many apologists through the ages who have written many (boring) books and treatises on God, Jesus, The Bible, etc. But there are others who have countered with some pretty compelling stuff. Naturally I tend to agree with the latter's points of view, but sometimes I am able to see the holes in their logic as well, especially if they argue for atheism.
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Is it not indeed His faithfulness to you that is wooing you back to Himself?
Perhaps.
And I certainly have no doubt at all about your faith in the matter.
< Message edited by 1dblthnk02 -- 6/22/2008 10:06:43 AM >
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RE: CherishedbyGod wanted this - 6/22/2008 10:46:26 AM
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Lufia
Posts: 187
Joined: 5/25/2008
From: Canada, quebec province
Status: offline
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I' m curious: why don't you believe anymore in the God of the Bible, as you say it? I'm new here and if you don't want to answer, i'll understand for sure. But you seem so close to Him, yet there is 'something' that seems to keep you away from God. I may be wrong but thats my feeling. Also i want to thank you because you are always so kind and respectful in all your answers.
Like cherish, i'm also praying for you.
_____________________________
Give your life to Jesus and enjoy the ride!
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RE: CherishedbyGod wanted this - 6/22/2008 12:44:32 PM
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Pat-rebel_lady
Posts: 663
Joined: 4/12/2005
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quote:
Yes, the books by Lee Strobel come to mind here. It's good reading, too. But unfortunately, he tends to commit certain logical fallacies, and I was able to topple many of his arguments.
There have been many apologists through the ages who have written many (boring) books and treatises on God, Jesus, The Bible, etc. But there are others who have countered with some pretty compelling stuff. Naturally I tend to agree with the latter's points of view, but sometimes I am able to see the holes in their logic as well, especially if they argue for atheism.
Have you ever read/studied these Books:
The Agape Road by Bob Mumford
The purpose of temptation by Bob Mumford
When Heaven Invades Earth by Bill Johnson
I would absolutely Love.... to hear your take on the three.
Pat
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RE: CherishedbyGod wanted this - 6/22/2008 1:01:42 PM
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tracydolls
Posts: 1839
Joined: 3/30/2008
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quote:
Told ya; I can definitely talk the talk. I'm no biblical scholar, but I read the thing a time or two.
LOL. This is so weird, I thought you were a Christian in a thread along time ago, you were saying what I thought a Christian should say. Or should at least attempt to sound like. You were debating I guess they are called conservative Christian right?
You just made real sense to me, then I happened into the atheist thread, my mouth just dropped. 
I went thru a "dry valley" for a long time also. I kept getting no answers just dry dust and cactus it seemed. For years.
I pray that He gets you out the valley and show you who He is. Your right only He can.
WE are very very poor reps for Him.
_____________________________
Rev 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
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RE: CherishedbyGod wanted this - 6/23/2008 9:55:27 AM
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1dblthnk02
Posts: 689
Joined: 3/24/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Lufia
I' m curious: why don't you believe anymore in the God of the Bible, as you say it?
Well, you are asking me to tread on very thin ice here, but there are two main reasons:
1. I have problems with scripture. I cannot really go into this without casting aspersions on the Holy Bible which would violate the TOS.
2. I have problems with the portrayal of God in the scriptures. Again, this is a personal viewpoint, and I don't want to get myself kicked out of here by offending other people's view of God.
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But you seem so close to Him, yet there is 'something' that seems to keep you away from God.
Let's just say that religion doesn't work for me.
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Also i want to thank you because you are always so kind and respectful in all your answers.
Thank you; I am trying very hard to not be my usual, boorish self on this thread.
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ORIGINAL: Pat-rebel_lady
Have you ever read/studied these Books:
The Agape Road by Bob Mumford
The purpose of temptation by Bob Mumford
When Heaven Invades Earth by Bill Johnson
No, I haven't, but thanks for the tip.
I wonder if this Bill Johnson is the same Bill Johnson that I saw several years ago as a guest speaker in a church. That'd be a kick.
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I would absolutely Love.... to hear your take on the three.
And I would love to oblige you, but I doubt that it will happen any time soon. Reading and digesting three books at a time is something that I haven't attempted since college.
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ORIGINAL: tracydolls
LOL. This is so weird, I thought you were a Christian in a thread along time ago, you were saying what I thought a Christian should say. Or should at least attempt to sound like.
I don't doubt you, but this doesn't ring a bell with me. Can you remember the topic?
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You were debating I guess they are called conservative Christian right?
Yes, I do this often.
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You just made real sense to me, then I happened into the atheist thread, my mouth just dropped.
An atheist thread on this forum? Where is that?
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I pray that He gets you out the valley and show you who He is. Your right only He can.
WE are very very poor reps for Him.
Well, I try not to judge too harshly. I don't consider right wing Christians to be the only kind that there is.
< Message edited by 1dblthnk02 -- 6/23/2008 10:02:59 AM >
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RE: CherishedbyGod wanted this - 6/23/2008 11:06:09 AM
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Pat-rebel_lady
Posts: 663
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
quote:
ORIGINAL: Pat-rebel_lady
Have you ever read/studied these Books:
The Agape Road by Bob Mumford
The purpose of temptation by Bob Mumford
When Heaven Invades Earth by Bill Johnson
No, I haven't, but thanks for the tip.
I wonder if this Bill Johnson is the same Bill Johnson that I saw several years ago as a guest speaker in a church. That'd be a kick. quote:
quote:
quote:
I would absolutely Love.... to hear your take on the three.
And I would love to oblige you, but I doubt that it will happen any time soon. Reading and digesting three books at a time is something that I haven't attempted since college.
The purpose of temptation is about 223 pages
The Agape Road is about 263 pages
When Heaven Invades Earth is about 190 pages
(By the way I think this is the easiest, for comprehension sake, order to read them in); if you ever decide to read them. They are easy reads; if I can read them, without any problems, anybody can.
However, LOL, the digesting part --- Now there's a challenge to your college intellect.
Sorry, I couldn't help it ; I only completed 9th grade.
Pat
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RE: CherishedbyGod wanted this - 6/23/2008 7:20:56 PM
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SavedByGraceMD
Posts: 898
Joined: 2/13/2008
From: the poconos
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: blue1914
What specifically did you struggle with in the Bible and the Gospel message?
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The whole thing. The whole meme of God creating a perfect world, and yet being unable to prevent it from becoming messed up-- or else he fully allowed it to get messed up-- and blaming us for the mess we are in . . . it just doesn't add up when we are talking about an omniscient, omnipotent being supposedly far superior to us.
Who's in charge here: Him or us? If it's us, then why didn't he create us better able to manage things?
I would have to say that He is most definitely in control. That being said He allows this world to be all messed up not because He wants it to be, but by through all the problems and strife we can come to see the need for Him. He could have very easily created androids or robots who always obeyed, but He gave us free will to choose what we will do.
For me it was after living my life my way for 31 years, and having failure after failure, bad thing after bad thing happen, that I searched for meaning in this life. It was then that I found it, and the meaning of life resides in Him. To know Him and to love Him. This life isn't the ending, it is the beginning. Once I came to this truth, the bible in whole made absolutely 100% perfect sense.
God made man, God gave man free will to choose, man chose to sin, the penalty of sin is death, "But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us."(romans 5:8NIV). He sent Jesus to pay that penalty for us because He loves us. What about this doesn't make sense?
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If you were to see evidence of the tangible (such as an undisputed miracle occurring before your eyes-a man with no hand growing one in the space of a minute before your eyes, etc.) do you think that would have an impact on the way you believe
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Absolutely-- how could it not? A 100% grade A government-inspected miracle would rock my world and everyone else's, too.
The last time that I looked at the headlines, none have cropped up lately.
That would depend on what you perceive as being a miracle, and what sources you are looking to in order to find out about them. Would you say a woman surviving unharmed, left laying on the floor of her house while a tornado ripped everything else up of the foundation around her as she lay there praying for and praising God for saving her, would that be a miracle to you. Would you also conclude that when she went back( i am not sure when, maybe later, maybe the next day) that in the corner laying on the bare foundation where her home used to be, sat her grandmothers bible opened to psalm 75 where it states " 3 When the earth quakes and its people live in turmoil, I am the one who keeps its foundations firm." Would that not also be a miracle in itself, and in my opinion God declaring to everyone who hears of it, that He is the reason for that miracle?
To me this is a perfect example of a miracle that blows my mind, the only 2 things laying on a bare foundation after a tornado rips through and tears up the house completely are this women and her bible which was opened to that passage. Amazing. And I saw this on CBN news, whom I trust for the news they spread.
_____________________________
Isaiah 41:10
"Fear not for I am with you,
Do not be dismayed for I am your God,
I will strengthen you and help you,
I will uphold you with my righteous right hand"
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RE: CherishedbyGod wanted this - 6/23/2008 8:32:30 PM
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CherishedbyGod
Posts: 2406
Status: offline
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Michael,
Hello, my forum friend....
I am wondering how you are doing? My heart has been sad for you today. I cry for your soul...and weep, wondering how a heart can harden so against a God that loves you fiercely and passionately....I cannot grasp it.
Michael....The Lord Jesus Christ loves you soooo very much....if you only knew...if you only knew...
Why, oh dear Lord....why????
I think of Jesus weeping over His beloved Jerusalem and longing for them to come under His wings...I think of Him weeping at the tomb of Lazareth when He saw the grief of those left behind after Lazareth died...
I see Him groaning and sighing over sin, sickness, heartbreak...
I see Him in the Garden, wrestling over the horrendous price to be paid that He was to pay and His shrinking from such suffering.
I see Him being tortured for us before the crucifixion.
I see Him walking up the blood-stained path towards Calvary, bearing His cross for you and me.
I see Him crucified for us and the horror, absolute horror of it all. Indescribable darkness falling on that scene....
And, I ask...why? Why, Michael would you turn your back on such LOVE?
_____________________________
~I would love for you to come and learn about Jesus of Nazareth with me in the Writer's Roundtable Folder~
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RE: CherishedbyGod wanted this - 6/23/2008 11:32:47 PM
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1dblthnk02
Posts: 689
Joined: 3/24/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: CherishedbyGod
Michael,
Hello, my forum friend....
Hello back at you, Virginia.
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I am wondering how you are doing?
As good as an old cuss like me can be.
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My heart has been sad for you today. I cry for your soul...and weep, wondering how a heart can harden so against a God that loves you fiercely and passionately....I cannot grasp it.
[...]
And, I ask...why? Why, Michael would you turn your back on such LOVE?
I don't feel that I have turned my back on love. I feel that I have turned my back on things that I don't really believe in anymore. If I knew that I was turning my back on my personal savior, then that would be different from what I am doing now. I don't know how to make that make sense to someone who still believes with all of their heart.
It's kind of like getting over believing in Santa Clause. You see, St. Nicholas was a very real person, but not the person that we have today turned into an iconic legend for our children's sakes.
Elvis Presley was real, but he became an icon of nearly religious proportions, even to the point that people insisted that they still saw him alive and lurking in various places after his death.
Gandhi was real, but there are many people in India today who actually believe that he was a divine soul. Even Albert Einstein commented after Gandhi's death, "Generations to come will scarce believe that such a one as this walked the earth in flesh and blood."
Jesus of Nazareth may very well have lived. But, like Robin Hood and King Arthur, there is little but legend filling the place of true fact. Jesus Christ may only faintly echo Jesus of Nazareth, much like Santa Clause only faintly echoes Nicholas of Myra.
I hope that I have not distressed you by posting this, and I also hope that I am not crossing the line as far as the TOS goes. It is my opinion only, and one that I do not expect any true believer to accept on any level.
< Message edited by 1dblthnk02 -- 6/23/2008 11:40:37 PM >
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RE: CherishedbyGod wanted this - 6/24/2008 1:54:41 AM
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tracydolls
Posts: 1839
Joined: 3/30/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
quote:
ORIGINAL: tracydolls
LOL. This is so weird, I thought you were a Christian in a thread along time ago, you were saying what I thought a Christian should say. Or should at least attempt to sound like.
I don't doubt you, but this doesn't ring a bell with me. Can you remember the topic?
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You were debating I guess they are called conservative Christian right?
Yes, I do this often.
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You just made real sense to me, then I happened into the atheist thread, my mouth just dropped.
An atheist thread on this forum? Where is that?
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I pray that He gets you out the valley and show you who He is. Your right only He can.
WE are very very poor reps for Him.
Well, I try not to judge too harshly. I don't consider right wing Christians to be the only kind that there is.
Well what I Tracy call the athesit thread is Science and Origins. I believe it was the Ben Stein:Expelled: Darwinsim thread.
The thread I seen you on first was something in Current Events. Forgive me for not remembering what is was called. Just remember the impression I had of you. That you were a Christian.
Can I ask what would it hurt to believe in Jesus? I mean if you said in your heart I believe, what would happen?
To you?
< Message edited by tracydolls -- 6/24/2008 2:18:41 AM >
_____________________________
Rev 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
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RE: CherishedbyGod wanted this - 6/24/2008 7:32:35 AM
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Pat-rebel_lady
Posts: 663
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 1dblthnk02
I don't feel that I have turned my back on love. I feel that I have turned my back on things that I don't really believe in anymore. If I knew that I was turning my back on my personal savior, then that would be different from what I am doing now. I don't know how to make that make sense to someone who still believes with all of their heart.
It's kind of like getting over believing in Santa Clause. You see, St. Nicholas was a very real person, but not the person that we have today turned into an iconic legend for our children's sakes.
Elvis Presley was real, but he became an icon of nearly religious proportions, even to the point that people insisted that they still saw him alive and lurking in various places after his death.
Gandhi was real, but there are many people in India today who actually believe that he was a divine soul. Even Albert Einstein commented after Gandhi's death, "Generations to come will scarce believe that such a one as this walked the earth in flesh and blood."
Jesus of Nazareth may very well have lived. But, like Robin Hood and King Arthur, there is little but legend filling the place of true fact. Jesus Christ may only faintly echo Jesus of Nazareth, much like Santa Clause only faintly echoes Nicholas of Myra.
I hope that I have not distressed you by posting this, and I also hope that I am not crossing the line as far as the TOS goes. It is my opinion only, and one that I do not expect any true believer to accept on any level.
I don't know about anyone else, but I understand what you're say, and I think you did a good job in the illustrations that you used; I found them understandable.
Can I ask '2' personal questions? How old are you? And, What is your Marital Stats? I know it has nothing to do with the price of eggs, but it helps me; my minds eye; see an image of who I'm listening to and occasionally speaking to.
Pat
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RE: CherishedbyGod wanted this - 6/24/2008 8:00:47 AM
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SonInMe1
Posts: 3427
Joined: 4/16/2005
From: my mom by God
Status: offline
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I do not believe the word of God is legend.
I believe Jesus Christ was a real being, who came to earth from Heaven,as God to walk amungst us as human. He fulfilled His purpoise here on earth as foretold in hundreds of prophecies from the Old Testament.
He came and died for the attonement of our sins and was raised to life on the third day. He is alive today.
Belief, the kind that brings forth obediance, saves us from eternal seperation from God, in Christ Jesus.
Its not fairy tales. Its not a legend people have expounded upon over time. The bible is miraculously the same book it was thousands of years ago.
_____________________________
You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
James 4:4
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RE: CherishedbyGod wanted this - 6/24/2008 8:33:33 AM
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Pat-rebel_lady
Posts: 663
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
I do not believe the word of God is legend.
I don't either!!
I believe this  :
John 1:1-5,
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
The same was in the beginning with God.
All things were made by Him, and without Him was not anything made that was made.
In Him was life, and that life was the Light of men.
And the Light shineth in darkness, and the darkness comprehended it not.
Jesus Christ, the Son of God, was the Word of God incarnate!!
John 1:14
The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.
I also believe the OT and NT confirm and verify each other.
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RE: CherishedbyGod wanted this - 6/24/2008 8:54:28 AM
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Pat-rebel_lady
Posts: 663
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
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I always liked this :
This is a very small portion, from within the Appendix of Paul Meier’s novel ‘The Third Millennium’, he wrote:
“It was in Medical school that we learned that the human body is made up of thirty trillion cells and that each cell has thousands of enzymes and other components. We also learned that each of those tiny components is made up of elections, protons, neutrons, invisible force fields. Did this all bounce together out of nothing?
This skeptic says the only logical conclusion is that a design as complex as the human body requires a Supernatural Designer. To deny this would be the equivalent of claiming that Webster’s Dictionary came about as the result of an explosion in a printing factory.
If there is a Supernatural Designer of the human body and human spirit, then it seems logical to think that this Supernatural Being probably left us some information---at least some hint about whether it loves us, hates us, or is indifferent to us. Hints about what this being plans to do with us---if anything---in the future. And hints about what type of relationship, if one is even possible, we can have with our Supernatural Designer:
If this Being did give us a form of communication---a Bible, so to speak---which Bible is His? Which one---if any---is correct? And if we determine which one is correct, how do we know how to interpret it?
When we die, do we just die? Or is there life after death? Just because I hope there is an afterlife doesn’t necessarily make it so! Are we really more than just an amazingly complex body? Are we really spiritual beings who will live forever in modified bodies?
I have obsessed about these questions since childhood, And in my journey through life, I have come ti the skeptical and scientific conclusions that the God of the Bible is the Supernatural Being for whom we are searching, and that the best way to understand His communication to us is to read the Bible as if we were reading a newspaper article---that is, take it literally unless the symbolism is obvious.”
< Message edited by Pat-rebel_lady -- 6/24/2008 4:53:48 PM >
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RE: CherishedbyGod wanted this - 6/24/2008 9:56:41 AM
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kingdust
Posts: 323
Joined: 3/20/2006
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tracydolls
Can I ask what would it hurt to believe in Jesus? I mean if you said in your heart I believe, what would happen?
To you?
Sorry that I am not Mike, but I found your question a little too awkward to a person who refused to believe in Him.
Like all of us and others who are believers in nature do love to believe in what 'I believe', or 'what I want to believe'.
Even us who claims to believe in Jesus are not free from that strong tendency of believing in I, me and myself, namely my way, my truth and my life.
What happens to us when we say we believe in Jesus as the Lord, Savior God, the way, the truth and the life is like a war broken out between my value and His value, my way against His way, my truth against His truth, and basically life long struggle between my life and His life.
Other religions or religious ISMs have the same struggle of mine over yours, more or less.
The funny thing is that mine is not that absolute, sure, everlasting, universal, good for all kind of thing.
For one thing, I am here now but will be no more one day.
I am midst, and what good is my iron-clay conviction to anybody?
I sure like to believe in someone who claims and proves to be the way, the truth and the life.
But, Mike wants to believe in himself.
What is Mike?
_____________________________
I am an English as Second Language person and love corrections, kind or unkind, positive or negative, with love or without love, which I am grateful of. Just GIVE!
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RE: CherishedbyGod wanted this - 6/24/2008 2:41:32 PM
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jmjphe
Posts: 78
Joined: 4/29/2008
Status: offline
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I will say first that I am a long winded person and this reply will be speaking in a very general sense.
I think at this point we are hitting on the underlying theme here. Alittle history of myself. I suffered from intense anxiety and panic, as well as sleepless nights etc. My mind wouldnt stop thinking and pondering, I chose to entertain each thought as if it were me moment by moment. I began to see a psycho-therapist once every two weeks. What was interesting is that he spoke using very little psychology, although some was used to therpize, and he did have a Masters in the subject. we spoke mostly about spirituality. My therapist, to my knowledge, isnt a Chrsitian man, nor does he follow any religous traidions. TO make a long story short, I discovered that I wasnt my mind. What I was doing was drawing my very identity off the contents of my conditioned brain. The tool (brain) was using me (the being beyond the mind and body) instead of me using the tool. I think that statement right there shows an awareness of awareness that rises beyond the minds comprehension.
I want to give what I feel would be a pretty broad explanation of "sprituality": essentially anything beyond the mind, supernatrual, things, ideas, concepts that cant really be broken down into stats, and figures, something that scientific logic cant be applied to, or atleast in a conrete fashion.
In every religon, beleif, tradition, one would be hard pressed to find one that doesnt have some view or outlook (good, bad, or indifferent) about spirituality. A vast majority of beleifs and religons dating back since we can account for, Show the human race's reltionship to this "other" realm, world, activity etc. in the form of gods, ceremonies, writings, traidtions and so on and so forth. I would argue that many supernatrual experiences were probably attributed confusion or lack of logical understanding, such as seeing a bear for the first time may induce some type of beleif its more than what it is. What I'm getting at is that the act of natrually pursiing the "beyond" is worth mention, and shows a innate reltionship to it.
The human brain will rationalize ALL of this stuff to its approval if given time and the data it needs. We should expect nothing less, it exsists in this physical plane bound by laws, properties, and logic. Drawing your identity from the brain will no doubt get you believing that we are just an organism trying to survive and live out our lives to one degree or another. Logic debates can pobably go on and on until we are out of breath. But beyond the thoughts and the mind is the being, the you, the I am, the timeless essence. You cannot logically explain this, you can only simply BE, feel it.
We have all sorts of works on the natrual world, how it works, old theories tested, new ones created and proven etc. We also have works on things that are beyond our minds. All beliefs have different takes on it but all point it. The underlying theme so this thread seems to be self-forgetfulness.
Without going on to much longer, I found Jesus Christ, and the meaning of life: knowing God, BEING with God, when there is silence of the mind, God is present. Trying to rationalize all this and identifying yourself to it will only create and empower a false self, the minds projected image, the ego...it works both ways. The conditoned mind will try to create a mental image of "God" as of now, when in fact we cant picture what cant be pictured. I could surely go on but I'll wait to see what ind of responses follow.
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RE: CherishedbyGod wanted this - 6/25/2008 9:50:09 AM
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