How would you take this? (Full Version)

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lightshineon -> How would you take this? (6/17/2008 10:13:45 PM)

My daughter works for the church cleaning part-time, and the art department at her school. My pastor is so picky, he called her back into work, because someone spit gum in a urinal. The church is outside of town, and with the price of gas. Well anyway, when we have guest he wants his office to shine. I have helped my DD, clean it before, because I just wanted to be nice, and I clean very well, and she is a kid, and cleans well but, I am a perfection type person. I clean very, very, well. Anyway last Thursday, I cleaned his office with DD for two reasons. I am very angry with him over an issue, so I wanted to bless him, the nice way. I called and ask if he wanted me to help my DD clean. he was thrilled, he said " I will even pick up my papers off my desk"

When we went to clean, his papers were not off his desk, nor was his checkbook, or his bank deposit slip, The youth pastors pay stub, and the youth pastor wifes pat stub, and bank deposit slip. I put them in his top drawer, I ask DD if he ever leaves these things out, when she cleans his office on thursdays. She said "no never". I moved these things to take the huge glass, off of the desk and dust the desk, and clean the huge glass. We cleaned the office for hours making sure it was fantastic. No thank you was given to me for my time, but whatever, that is expected.
We are having revival, and he took me aside and ask me if I had seen two Visa cards on his desk." I replied " No, there were never visa cards on his desk." I would have noticed that. I felt like what was the deal. I am not a thief, never have been, I am not poor, but most of all a Christian, and hate stealing more than anything. Now he maybe was not suggesting that, it made me feel funny the manner he ask me. I am not poor, did it for free, trying to bless him.
Ok here is the skinny of it, am I just angry at him over other things and taking this out of context? Is the devil and flesh just using this tomake me dislike him more? Would you feel funny? What would you feel like? Just give it to me, I know my attitude is not good toward him, or him toward me as of late. I was trying to overcome evil with good, but now this happened. It just infurated me. Why would he leave personal information out anyway. I am not white trash anyway, and would not steal a paperclip. Thanks for information, and opinions. Do not sugarcoat it, I do not care if you are brutaly honest. I need help, this is all eating at me, eating my soul. If you gave me a million dollars and one penny to deposit in the bank, that is what I would put in, including the one penny. Thanks.



OneOfHisJewels -> RE: How would you take this? (6/17/2008 10:23:35 PM)

I think he is being way unreasonable, and while I don't normally condone church hopping, I am starting to agree with others on this board that it may be time to start seeking out another church. Your daughter (as referred to in the parenting thread a while back, don't know if she and the cleaning dau. are the same or different) and you have both (you and the dau. from the other incident) now been very falsely accused on two occasions, and I would hate to see it snowball next time into police getting involved or something. I wouldn't be good for your family or for your husband's career.

However, although I know it was probably only said in the heat of the moment, I would encourage you not to use statements like this:

quote:

I am not white trash anyway,


It might make a caucasian person of meager means feel bad.



lightshineon -> RE: How would you take this? (6/17/2008 10:28:21 PM)

Sorry about white trash comment. I am white, and the statement has nothing to do with the poor, whom I seek out as friends and love, but sorry. My husband is an elder, and I a teacher for over ten years. I would never steal, it is just something I cannot abide by, it is a sin that I have never done, and would not.
quote:

ORIGINAL: OneOfHisJewels

I think he is being way unreasonable, and while I don't normally condone church hopping, I am starting to agree with others on this board that it may be time to start seeking out another church. Your daughter (as referred to in the parenting thread a while back, don't know if she and the cleaning dau. are the same or different) and you have both (you and the dau. from the other incident) now been very falsely accused on two occasions, and I would hate to see it snowball next time into police getting involved or something. I wouldn't be good for your family or for your husband's career.

However, although I know it was probably only said in the heat of the moment, I would encourage you not to use statements like this:

quote:

I am not white trash anyway,


It might make a caucasian person of meager means feel bad.



lightshineon -> RE: How would you take this? (6/17/2008 11:04:01 PM)

Oh, I forgot jewels, no this incident is with oldest DD, the other incident is youngest, in parenting this is why I am angry the first incident, and was trying to be kind, doing something good to those who persecuted me, now I feel more angry, it is consuming me. I was wondering if I was set up, or the devil is using this. I am more sad, and unhappy, as I have ever been in my spirit.



cow451 -> RE: How would you take this? (6/17/2008 11:44:23 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: lightshineon

Oh, I forgot jewels, no this incident is with oldest DD, the other incident is youngest, in parenting this is why I am angry the first incident, and was trying to be kind, doing something good to those who persecuted me, now I feel more angry, it is consuming me. I was wondering if I was set up, or the devil is using this. I am more sad, and unhappy, as I have ever been in my spirit.



Life is too short to waste on these people. There are many other churches that would love to have your family join theirs.



lightshineon -> RE: How would you take this? (6/17/2008 11:47:03 PM)

Thank you cow. That means alot to me. Blessings
quote:

ORIGINAL: cow451

quote:

ORIGINAL: lightshineon

Oh, I forgot jewels, no this incident is with oldest DD, the other incident is youngest, in parenting this is why I am angry the first incident, and was trying to be kind, doing something good to those who persecuted me, now I feel more angry, it is consuming me. I was wondering if I was set up, or the devil is using this. I am more sad, and unhappy, as I have ever been in my spirit.



Life is too short to waste on these people. There are many other churches that would love to have your family join theirs.



solo_soprano22 -> RE: How would you take this? (6/18/2008 12:36:26 AM)

I haven't read what's over in parenting, but is it possible that he *thought* he might have really left two Visa cards on his desk and he was just mistaken? I can't tell if he said anything further or just left it at that...or if he's just like that in general.

Sometimes I'm afraid stuff like that will happen to me with babysitting. Most of the time people just leave stuff out, and I get afraid that they can just claim something is missing one day and put it on me. [8|]



SonInMe1 -> RE: How would you take this? (6/18/2008 8:44:16 AM)

This is my advice...

talk to him, not us.

Mattew 18:15-20



rcjames -> RE: How would you take this? (6/18/2008 8:54:07 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: lightshineon
We are having revival, and he took me aside and ask me if I had seen two Visa cards on his desk." I replied " No, there were never visa cards on his desk." I would have noticed that. I felt like what was the deal. I am not a thief, never have been...


There is a good possibility that he was not thinking you were a thief, but that maybe you had put the cards somewhere besides the drawer you bup the other stuff in.

You do need to talk to the Pastor as I see a lot of ill feelings building in you that can eventually harm your relationship with the Church, the Pastor, and could harm your relationship with God.

Just go to him, give your concerns, and listen to what the man has to say.

Thanks
RC



lightshineon -> RE: How would you take this? (6/18/2008 10:10:32 AM)

You are right, the relationship is damaged, and it is hurting my relationship with God. I am angry, angry with him. Talking to him, which I have has only made things worse, the talk was after much begging for a meeting. Matthew 18, does not apply at our church, I quoted that to him many times. I was angry, so I decided to bless him by a kind gesture, I cleaned his office, because it was important to him. I cannot believe he left his checkbook, bank deposit slip, the youth pastor, and secretarys pay stubs all that on his desk. He was thrilled for me to deep clean his office, because of guest coming, and he has asthma so dust bothers him. He commented that, when I cleaned it before that it had never looked so good. He might have had an innocent question, I said that in OP. Just leabing personal information out for ayon to take is not wise. I took care of a little handicapped boy, a long time ago. His mother would leave him in the car with me while she ran in stores and stuff. Once she left 10,000 dollars as she ran in stores paying bills and such. It was cash in an envelope., which she left in the car with me. This made me very uneasy. She came back to the car and counted the money, and said " It is not all here", she counted it again and said " Oh yes it is." I maybe wrong, probaly am, just because I am so angry with him, which makes me in sin, so pray for me please. I worked from 7pm until 11pm, to do a kind deed to help my anger, so that I would, bless him because he persecuted me. I think I will ask him if he found the cards tonight. If he says no, then I will say to him then he should cancel them. My thinking is not right, but, then I saw him sit there and just lie, on another issue. He talkes out of both sides of his mouth, so I am supicious of his motives. I still love him, but wish I had some temple tables to turn over, instead of just smiling say " I love you", as he says it to me, knowin he really does not. I do love him, he is young but highly wrong, and he knows it you can tell. I will pray and repent for anger, and bitterness which is sin. I will also pray he fids his cards (LOL) I will not unless he ask me clean his office again.
quote:

ORIGINAL: rcjames

quote:

ORIGINAL: lightshineon
We are having revival, and he took me aside and ask me if I had seen two Visa cards on his desk." I replied " No, there were never visa cards on his desk." I would have noticed that. I felt like what was the deal. I am not a thief, never have been...


There is a good possibility that he was not thinking you were a thief, but that maybe you had put the cards somewhere besides the drawer you bup the other stuff in.

You do need to talk to the Pastor as I see a lot of ill feelings building in you that can eventually harm your relationship with the Church, the Pastor, and could harm your relationship with God.

Just go to him, give your concerns, and listen to what the man has to say.

Thanks
RC



solarflare -> RE: How would you take this? (6/18/2008 1:25:20 PM)

Talk to him. But not alone. Write down the points you want to discuss and make sure you cover them - even if you have to bring the paper with you. That way, if it gets off-topic (likely) you can bring the discussion back round again.

Remember, we are to be at peace with all men - AS MUCH AS IS POSSIBLE. It has been my experience that on occasion it is just not possible and not for lack of effort. [:(]

God bless and keep you.



rcjames -> RE: How would you take this? (6/18/2008 1:35:09 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: solarflare
Talk to him. But not alone.


I agree with you on writing doen exactly what it is that one ones to talk about, but why the "Not alone" admonition?

Thanks
RC



solarflare -> RE: How would you take this? (6/18/2008 1:54:53 PM)

quote:

but why the "Not alone" admonition?



A neutral party would enable angry people to dialogue (hopefully) in a more constructive way. Lightshineon has expressed that credibility is one of her main concerns. I believe that she is in a very uncomfortable position, having already tried very hard to straighten things out with the Pastor. She is not being heard by him - reference the fact that she has stated that talking to him has only made things worse.
Yup, I would definately make another attempt - and ask for at least one other (unbiased) individual to be present.

Thanks (sp edit)



lightshineon -> RE: How would you take this? (6/18/2008 2:18:59 PM)

That is good advice, thank you. I am sorry for the rant, I thought about it today, and felt ashamed of myself. I do love pastor, he has hurt me very badly last month concerning my daughter who is a young teenager. Not the one that cleans, I have three daughters. I think I am overlapping my mistrust of him, and his motives. I am trying to work relationships out, which I think needs to be done in churches, instead of leaving, which I want to do. He and two others broke my heart, I have cried for a month straight, read my Bible and prayed all the way to North Carolina, from Oklahoma and back. I cried which I rarely do, but, my hurt is so deep. My souls is wounded, because sometimes people just let you down for their own gain. They are not who you think they are. So I guess what I am saying is maybe I am hypersensative on this issue.
The only strange thing is when I told my husband what was on the desk, he said " I have an odd feeling about that." This is before the credit card issue was brought up. I would almost rather be called anything than a thief, it is just something that I cannot stand someone to do. I guess that may play a role in my emotions also. I agree talking with another third netural party, not just a "yes man would be benifical. Thanks for wisdom struggling here. Hard to listen to him preach I do not respect him at all right now. Like I said maybe he ment nothing, and I had a thought the visa cards could be inside of the checkbook. My DD went to clean this morning before school, and said his paycheck was laying on his desk, and she did not clean his office, which she does on Thursdays. Thanks again, and keep me in prayer for my soul, I do not mind admonishment I know I need it, to keep my walk with the Lord right. Blessings, and thanks again.[:)]



solarflare -> RE: How would you take this? (6/18/2008 2:24:51 PM)

quote:

I am sorry for the rant, I thought about it today, and felt ashamed of myself.


I understand. I have ranted myself. And banged my head on the wall.
I am glad if I made any sense to you. If we are sincere, it is not easy being a Christian. We are stretched, sometimes, for reasons we don't understand - BUT it is good to "pour out your heart to God". He does know our hearts - even when others misunderstand.

God bless you.



daisies4u -> RE: How would you take this? (6/18/2008 3:07:59 PM)

Don't put yourself in this position again. Stop cleaning his office and don't let your daughters anywhere near him without your supervision.

I realize that he is your pastor and you should be able to trust him. But if there has been even a slight implication that me or my children had done something wrong, I would never step back into his office without a witness (someone other than family).

Why put yourself in this position?



kohls356 -> RE: How would you take this? (6/18/2008 8:40:01 PM)

Well just by going what you posted and not being able to see his face or hear his tone I would say he was just asking if you had seen his cards. Since you didn't see them a simple no I am sorry I didn't should be sufficient and not anything to else think about. He might have missplaced them and was hoping you had seen them. He may never have thought you took them. If it bothers you this much you should ask him if he thought you took them.

I don't know if you or your daughter would clean his office again but if you do and there are personal items left out I would not touch them. I would clean around them as much as possible and other areas but leave the personal items alone. Then when you saw him I would explain that you didn't feel comfortable moving his personal items around and they you just cleaned around them.

I could be totally wrong but I think maybe your motive for cleaning the office was wrong. You said you wanted to do this for him, bless him by cleaning his office. But then you seem upset that he didn't thank you, you did say he seemed thrilled that you were going to clean though. To me if you were truly doing this to bless him then you wouldn't even want a thank you in return. Sure it is nice to be thanked for doing a job but I am not sure you should be upset for not getting one this time.

I don't know everything that has happened with you and this church but I do remember the incident with your daughter. I just couldn't stay in a church that I had such negative feelings about.



lightshineon -> RE: How would you take this? (6/18/2008 10:17:11 PM)

Well pastor found his cards, he called my daughter, and admitted to taking me aside accusing me. My motavation was good in cleaning his office, My daughter cleans the church for money btw, to help pay for school, she works two jobs. Yes, I was trying to make peace by cleaning his office. I read the Bible and prayed, felt impresed to do it. A thank you would have been nice, you know gratitude, being grateful, is better than accusing me of something I would never, ever do. It is sad, because I give alot to the ministries, I am not poor (who do not steal either,) or a thief, and hate stealing, it is probaly the most offensive thing anyone could ever accuse me of in my eyes. Do not worry, I will not try and reach out in kindness again, he just values it "sparkeling" when guest come to our church. I thought it would cause a bridge of friendship. Last Sunday night, he did thank me for being nice to the not pretty people in church. I guess I am grateful for that. I live my life above reproach, or the best I can empowerd by the Holy Spirit. I just o not know what to think anymore, I give it everything I have, that is the way I am. I am a Christian all the way or not at all. I am not saying I am perfect by any means, but love the Lord. Thanks Stepanos, and others, it is true I did not go to the church, and would not.



endless_night -> RE: How would you take this? (6/18/2008 11:05:36 PM)

Please forgive me, but I don't think you will like my response:

Matthew 18:13-18
“Moreover if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother. But if he will not hear, take with you one or two more, that ‘by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.’ And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church. But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector..."

I really wish you went to him first and not us (if I assumed this incorrectly, I'm really sorry). If you have not already, I think you should go to him and tell him how you feel.



solo_soprano22 -> RE: How would you take this? (6/18/2008 11:24:31 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: lightshineon

Well pastor found his cards, he called my daughter, and admitted to taking me aside accusing me. My motavation was good in cleaning his office, My daughter cleans the church for money btw, to help pay for school, she works two jobs. Yes, I was trying to make peace by cleaning his office. I read the Bible and prayed, felt impresed to do it. A thank you would have been nice, you know gratitude, being grateful, is better than accusing me of something I would never, ever do. It is sad, because I give alot to the ministries, I am not poor (who do not steal either,) or a thief, and hate stealing, it is probaly the most offensive thing anyone could ever accuse me of in my eyes. Do not worry, I will not try and reach out in kindness again, he just values it "sparkeling" when guest come to our church. I thought it would cause a bridge of friendship. Last Sunday night, he did thank me for being nice to the not pretty people in church. I guess I am grateful for that. I live my life above reproach, or the best I can empowerd by the Holy Spirit. I just o not know what to think anymore, I give it everything I have, that is the way I am. I am a Christian all the way or not at all. I am not saying I am perfect by any means, but love the Lord. Thanks Stepanos, and others, it is true I did not go to the church, and would not.


Would your daughter still clean for him? I can't tell from the post....It might be in there, but I'm tired. Lol. 'Tis close to bedtime.

Is it possible that you can ask him to remove his valuables or even have some kind of agreement about this (if your daughter would be cleaning for him again)? Not that you or your family would steal, but just like the Visas he misplaced, he may think you stole or lost them.

It seems like your daughter might want to "protect" herself from this kind of thing if she could. I know some people honestly think someone stole something when they'd just misplaced it; she might be able to have an agreement drawn up about it (to ask that people secure their valuables and that she's not responsible for things that go missing). It's a little sad that things come to that, but that's the way the world is.



lightshineon -> RE: How would you take this? (6/18/2008 11:27:33 PM)

It does no good, tried on other issues. Why am I getting beat up here? Why do you judge me? I would not do this if you had a problem, I have tried to talk to him, before I just found out tonight he found the cards through my daughter. I did nothing wrong. What do you not understand, I was seeking wise advice, before I chose to confront him. Thanks for judgment it really makes my day brighter. Maybe something will happen to you like this, and you will see it is not black and white. I do understand Job and his friends.
quote:

ORIGINAL: endless_night

Please forgive me, but I don't think you will like my response:

Matthew 18:13-18
“Moreover if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother. But if he will not hear, take with you one or two more, that ‘by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.’ And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church. But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector..."

I really wish you went to him first and not us (if I assumed this incorrectly, I'm really sorry). If you have not already, I think you should go to him and tell him how you feel.



endless_night -> RE: How would you take this? (6/18/2008 11:46:51 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: lightshineon

It does no good, tried on other issues. Why am I getting beat up here? Why do people judge me? I would not do this if you had a problem, I have tried to talk to him, before I just found out tonight he found the cards through my daughter. I did nothing wrong. What do you not understand, I was seeking wise advice, before I chose to confront him. Thanks for judgment oit really makes my day brighter. Maybe something will happen to you like this, and you will see it is not black and white.
quote:

ORIGINAL: endless_night

Please forgive me, but I don't think you will like my response:

Matthew 18:13-18
“Moreover if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother. But if he will not hear, take with you one or two more, that ‘by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.’ And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church. But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector..."

I really wish you went to him first and not us (if I assumed this incorrectly, I'm really sorry). If you have not already, I think you should go to him and tell him how you feel.



Wow!
I didn't realize I was judging you by merely pointing out a scripture. That is how Christ said we should handle problems with our bothers and sisters and I was just pointing that out. Honestly, if you are getting this advice over and over again by us Christians, maybe that's the wise advice that Christ knew you needed. Oh sweetie, I have been placed in situations where something between me and a sister in Christ had a disagreement and I didn't go to her like the scriptures ask and it became bigger than it was simply because I failed to go to her first. It's not a black or white thing, it's the way Christ designed it so we would not have built up angry towards each other and express it to others.

I don't know the situation and since this is between you and the guy, honestly, I feel that it should be between you and him.



lightshineon -> RE: How would you take this? (6/18/2008 11:58:03 PM)

Sorry for being harsh, thanks for scripture. I was seeking really if this was an issue, or anger over another very serious issue. I had to beg for a meeting then. I do not want to be angry, I love others and him. He has really disappointed me lately. He is gone to Mexico for three weeks, time to clear my head. I am serious I would rather be called an adulteress than a thief. Trust me I was not trying to gossip, it is hard for me right now, and just needed insight if I was being hypersensative. I would not go to the body, this is so hurtful, and it is hard to explain that, he would not talk to me. My goodness I was trying to do a good thing for him, because I am very angry over another issue. My advice I was seeking was to see a different perspective other than my emotions.
quote:

ORIGINAL: endless_night

quote:

ORIGINAL: lightshineon

It does no good, tried on other issues. Why am I getting beat up here? Why do people judge me? I would not do this if you had a problem, I have tried to talk to him, before I just found out tonight he found the cards through my daughter. I did nothing wrong. What do you not understand, I was seeking wise advice, before I chose to confront him. Thanks for judgment oit really makes my day brighter. Maybe something will happen to you like this, and you will see it is not black and white.
quote:

ORIGINAL: endless_night

Please forgive me, but I don't think you will like my response:

Matthew 18:13-18
“Moreover if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother. But if he will not hear, take with you one or two more, that ‘by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.’ And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church. But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector..."

I really wish you went to him first and not us (if I assumed this incorrectly, I'm really sorry). If you have not already, I think you should go to him and tell him how you feel.



Wow!
I didn't realize I was judging you by merely pointing out a scripture. That is how Christ said we should handle problems with our bothers and sisters and I was just pointing that out. Honestly, if you are getting this advice over and over again by us Christians, maybe that's the wise advice that Christ knew you needed. Oh sweetie, I have been placed in situations where something between me and a sister in Christ had a disagreement and I didn't go to her like the scriptures ask and it became bigger than it was simply because I failed to go to her first. It's not a black or white thing, it's the way Christ designed it so we would not have built up angry towards each other and express it to others.

I don't know the situation and since this is between you and the guy, honestly, I feel that it should be between you and him.



kohls356 -> RE: How would you take this? (6/19/2008 8:59:32 AM)

I am sorry you were accused of stealing I can understand how hurtful that would be. I don't understand why he would call your daughter and tell her that he accused you of that. It really seems like there have been issues with your pastor and church and honestly I would not go back and be under the leadership of someone who would accuse me of stealing from them.

I don't mean this in any snarky way at all but why do you continue to go to that church? Do you live in an area where there aren't many churches? If I remember correctly you and your husband hold positions of leadership but is it worth staying in a place that makes you so miserable?

We were in a church that we were not happy at longer than we should have and the day we walked out of that church for the last time was such a relief. I almost felt like I was being suffocated in that place, their was just no life there anymore for me.



kohls356 -> RE: How would you take this? (6/19/2008 9:07:18 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: lightshineon

Last Sunday night, he did thank me for being nice to the not pretty people in church.


I just noticed that comment. What did he mean by that comment? Was he talking about what a person looks like or how they act because if he was talking about a persons looks I find that to be an odd comment.



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