Worship Wars

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daughter_of_faith -> Worship Wars (6/20/2008 2:39:58 PM)
Here is the place to discuss the worship wars within your church(es). How did you resolve them peacefully? Did you remain in the church? Was another service started? Is there another solution? Let's let the "worship wars" begin. Please make sure to keep things peaceable!!!

daughter_of_faith -> RE: Worship Wars (6/20/2008 2:44:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JimboFletch quote: ORIGINAL: Covaan_Meshuga Well, I'm old enough to be your . . . your . . . big sister. [:D] My children are in their mid-thirties, and no one asks for my ID when I eat from the senior menu. [:D] When a congregation has two services, in order to have a hymn service and a contemporary one, I certainly would not call that a church-split; I call that accommodation. But when one won't speak to the other, I call that crazy, selfish, nutzoid, and a great demonstration of the body of believers (yeah, sure!). However, are you sure they don't speak to one another?? Really?? That is just plain weird. My church went to the traditional & contemporary services over a year ago and it has gone well (evening service is "blended"). I think the way it came about had a lot to do with it. The pastor appointed a committee to search the Lord's direct for our church without any other guidelines. Their ages ranged from 20s to senior adult and all were well-respected members. They brought the idea to the church after a lot of prayer and, at a later business meeting, discussion was held for everyone to ask questions and voice concerns. While not 100%, it was by overwhelming vote that we went with the two morning services. The point of doing it might also have influenced the harmonious transition. We weren't trying to attract the world but provide the type of services that allowed believers to worship and praise God the way that suited their personalities best. Some of us are more reserved in public and some are more expressive. We didn't want some to feel forced or others to feel constrained. The evening service blended sounds great to me!!! What a great way to work out something that tends to get SO heated at times.

jn1010lf -> RE: Worship Wars (6/20/2008 2:46:26 PM)
Hello daughter_of_faith Does your church love the Lord? It sounds like it doesn't. I'd leave.

daughter_of_faith -> RE: Worship Wars (6/20/2008 2:48:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jn1010lf Hello daughter_of_faith Does your church love the Lord? It sounds like it doesn't. I'd leave. What would give you that idea? [;)] I'm just the OP as this topic came up in another thread....

Covaan_Meshuga -> RE: Worship Wars (6/20/2008 3:01:58 PM)
Yeah, I have been on the Worship War threads before, and it was interesting: each side stepping on the other, trying to reach for their personal Crown of Holiness -- one side holier because their personal taste only included hymns written before 1960 and the second side holier because they saw the first side as mean-spirited and unaccepting of their contemporary songs. The first side saw the second side's songs as worldly and unintelligent; the second side saw the first side's music as boring and unsingable today. Personally, I have heard enough of both sides to have a distaste for some of the music on both sides, but why is our "worship" about our own tastes in the first place? Are we going to services in order to satisfy ourselves or to worship? Did anyone ask the L-rd what His taste is in music?

Peter_Gunn -> RE: Worship Wars (6/20/2008 3:06:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Covaan_Meshuga Did anyone ask the L-rd what His taste is in music? I did and He said it's Southern Gospel! [:D]

kernsfamily -> RE: Worship Wars (6/20/2008 3:27:41 PM)
Personally, I could care less what "type" of music they play for "worship"......(to a certain extent of course) Our church is quite "contemporary" with it's music, but "traditional" enough that it satisfies MOST of the more "traditional" folks.... Hymnals? Hymnals are great if you restrict the music you play in church to just what is in ONE or TWO books. We are regularly singing NEW songs...and, others that probably can't be found in a book (as well as some that can be found in a hymnal)....how different music books do ya think we'd need in each pew? Probably the one reason why our church is "together" on this subject, is that from DAY 1, as a member of the church, you realize that, without a doubt, the church DOES NOT know the meaning of the phrase, "Because that's the way we've always done it"..... what do I think of when the 'hymnal' only crowd "complains about the music in our "church"? (like my inlaws....)......or, the people who think that our music isn't "contemporary" enough?........I just think "This is a church service....it isn't ALL ABOUT YOU....or your personal "preferences".....there are 4899 OTHER people in here....listen to the Godly music that IS being played....and GET OVER IT! iam sure there are people who have visited our church, and didn't like the music, one way or another....but, oh well.....there are a zillion other churches in the immediate area.... we have 3 separate church services (1 saturday night, and 2 on sunday).....from what i hear, the saturday night is quite a bit more "contemporary" (praise team, and no choir).....while on sunday morning, both services are exactly the same, and, as I mentioned before, is fairly contemporary......but, not "over the top", and can be considered fairly "traditional"..... i can post a link to our church website.....if you want.....you can watch the choir/orchestra at the beginning of the services and judge for yourselves.....perhaps my "perception" is wrong....

JimboFletch -> RE: Worship Wars (6/20/2008 3:34:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Peter_Gunn quote: ORIGINAL: Covaan_Meshuga Did anyone ask the L-rd what His taste is in music? I did and He said it's Southern Gospel! [:D] I'm sorry, you need to have your ears cleaned. It's Polka Gospel and Zydeco Gospel. [sm=dance.gif]

JimboFletch -> RE: Worship Wars (6/20/2008 3:40:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kernsfamily we have 3 separate church services (1 saturday night, and 2 on sunday).....from what i hear, the saturday night is quite a bit more "contemporary" (praise team, and no choir).....while on sunday morning, both services are exactly the same, and, as I mentioned before, is fairly contemporary......but, not "over the top", and can be considered fairly "traditional"..... Our former pastor, Dr. Jerry Spencer, wanted to start a Saturday evening service but we didn't get one off the ground before he moved to fulltime evangelism. That's been about 6 years ago and hasn't come up again. I think it's a great idea if you can get enough volunteers to become the core group.

kernsfamily -> RE: Worship Wars (6/20/2008 3:54:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JimboFletch quote: ORIGINAL: kernsfamily we have 3 separate church services (1 saturday night, and 2 on sunday).....from what i hear, the saturday night is quite a bit more "contemporary" (praise team, and no choir).....while on sunday morning, both services are exactly the same, and, as I mentioned before, is fairly contemporary......but, not "over the top", and can be considered fairly "traditional"..... Our former pastor, Dr. Jerry Spencer, wanted to start a Saturday evening service but we didn't get one off the ground before he moved to fulltime evangelism. That's been about 6 years ago and hasn't come up again. I think it's a great idea if you can get enough volunteers to become the core group. It's certainly not something for every church....it just depends on the "characteristics" of the members.....and the size of the church..... in an urbanized suburban area that we are located in.....providing a saturday night service is definitely "well received" and well-attended..... plus, we DO have 2 church services on sunday, and both of those are fairly full......i wouldn't expect our pastor to go to a THIRD service on sundays..... another aspect: We are situated in a very 'affluent' area. Being a "baptist church", people typically dress "sunday best" for church on sunday morning. For alot of people, that can be quite "intimidating" (it was for me at first...especially at this church!)......so, saturday night is considerably more "relaxed" and "casual"....though, the message from the pastor is exactly the same. There are many people who feel more "comfortable" coming to a more "casual" church service.....and that's fine.... my wife and I volunteer in nursery on a few saturday nights a month....so, we do not feel we have to "miss out" on church or sunday school and we're still doing "our part" to help out!!!

Liveloved -> RE: Worship Wars (6/20/2008 4:08:55 PM)
No wars here. But my opinion is that there is good music to be found from every generation. The church needs people who are gifted at recognizing good music however. And often they don't or they haven't allowed that person to come forward. Music used for corporate worship needs to be singable as well as having sound theological content. Many hymns do not meet those criteria either. Too often people without spiritual maturity and giftedness are put into positions they should not be in. And the music/worship suffers. God has gifted the body to fulfill these functions. We need to begin to believe and practice what He says He's done.[:)]

SonInMe1 -> RE: Worship Wars (6/20/2008 6:45:52 PM)
When my pastor "took over" from the previous pastor it was decided that they add a more contemporary service. I am not sure exactly how that was done because I wasn't there but they started doing it. When I joined this church we had about 500 members with I think, three services on Sunday, two being contemporary, same sermone, just the music different...and dress. Pastor would wear jeans and t-shirt for the contemporary and a suit for the traditional. Six years later, we have a new buiulding with a larger sancturary...and now have 6 services on the weekend, one midweek, 5 of them contemporary. The traditional service is slightly declining...the other services have grown tremendously. Form 500 to almost 4000 in 6 years. In the three years since we built the new builidng...we have outgrown it. I won't say the reason for the growth is solely because of the contemporary services but the church was stuck at a little less than 500 for years. It could be the pastor since the sermons are the same. I don't know. To me its not about the music. When I was in the hospital one of the nurses said she went to the traditional service because the music wasn't quite so loud. I went to the traditional service a few months later...and it was...loud...lol. I left a church because they were more into plays and skits and dancing and entertainment...sometimes they didn't even have a sermon. I like my new church's inovative style and its not boring at all, but I am not there to be entertained. I am there to hear God's word preached and that is what my pastor does. To me, if you change churches because of the music....what were you there for in the first place? They have a new praise and worship leader at my church and the focus in the music is, as they say, for the youth. I can't explain the style of music now, mostly played, its part hip hop and some kind of new contemporary, mostly, but....like I said, I am not at a concert. I am at church. Preach the word baby and sing whatever song you feel led to sing. As long as I am not the only one singing...I'll sing along.

CherishedbyGod -> RE: Worship Wars (6/20/2008 7:14:50 PM)
I agree with Liveloved. I love "Handal's Messiah" and great hymns such as "O Sacred Head Now Wounded" amongst many, many others. But I also have a long history with Calvary Chapel's mode of worship which I love. My problem right now is, due to CC becoming such a difficult drive, I have been attending a SBC down the street. The new pastor is an incredible teacher and a kind and caring man! He is a rare jewel. But the last time I was there I think we, as a congregation, sang only one song. The rest was a performance. I was born to worship. And while I know worship is to be all our life, when I am denied cooperate worship, I don't even want to go back to church as I connect on such a special level with God then. I know how much it blesses my dear Savior and it lifts me up as few times do.... So that is the struggle I am having...

ezri -> RE: Worship Wars (6/20/2008 7:42:15 PM)
Worship wars. A few years back we had some younger adults(mid 20's) that decided to get together and do a contemoprary worship thing on Saturday night. They were going well, Until....... They brought in the drums. NO, they were not playing them on Sunday morning, BUT they were THERE in the (unused) choir loft. But our Resident LOL's all got their knickers in a twist because the drum set was in the choir loft. Uh HELLO! they are not hurting you, they are not obscuring your view of the screen which you hate anyway. Get over it. No- they decided that the choir loft had not been used in a long time so they gave the music minister an ear full and demanded he start the choir back up. NONE OF THEM JOINED. They gave the minister a ear full, Said he looked like he had a growth coming out his shoulder when he walked to that side of the stage. The young adults, Who not only were coming out Saturday night for their worship song service BUT also coming to Sunday AM services were sadly given a ear full by the LOLs too. The drums went away as did about 7 members. so 3 or 4 lil ol women are the crux of our worship wars. At this point we do one "praise" song and deal with their blabbering about how stupid it was or how fast or slow or high or low or..... Some folks would complain about a free icecream cone folks. They are intolerably intolerant[;)] and they wonder why the church is not growing. They are a bit heavy handed with their pruners, if you know what I mean. ~e

CherishedbyGod -> RE: Worship Wars (6/20/2008 8:17:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ezri Worship wars. A few years back we had some younger adults(mid 20's) that decided to get together and do a contemoprary worship thing on Saturday night. They were going well, Until....... They brought in the drums. NO, they were not playing them on Sunday morning, BUT they were THERE in the (unused) choir loft. But our Resident LOL's all got their knickers in a twist because the drum set was in the choir loft. Uh HELLO! they are not hurting you, they are not obscuring your view of the screen which you hate anyway. Get over it. No- they decided that the choir loft had not been used in a long time so they gave the music minister an ear full and demanded he start the choir back up. NONE OF THEM JOINED. They gave the minister a ear full, Said he looked like he had a growth coming out his shoulder when he walked to that side of the stage. The young adults, Who not only were coming out Saturday night for their worship song service BUT also coming to Sunday AM services were sadly given a ear full by the LOLs too. The drums went away as did about 7 members. so 3 or 4 lil ol women are the crux of our worship wars. At this point we do one "praise" song and deal with their blabbering about how stupid it was or how fast or slow or high or low or..... Some folks would complain about a free icecream cone folks. They are intolerably intolerant[;)] and they wonder why the church is not growing. They are a bit heavy handed with their pruners, if you know what I mean. ~e Well...You just have to sic Jimbo on them. From what I have seen in the current events folder, he can handle it[;)]

oldmethuselah -> RE: Worship Wars (6/20/2008 8:29:53 PM)
I THINK, ezri, LOL means "little old ladies"? Anyway, a good (sad) report from one side... I have equally good (sad) reports from the other side... FORTUNATELY (actually there is not "fortune" about it, it is a continual effort at corporate prayer for each other) there are no SUCCESSFUL worship wars at our church! That is to say, there are continue ATTEMPTS from one faction or another, but since the six pastor team and the elders are all committed to the princple stated below, the attempts FIZZLE so far.... we keep praying, tho, since we know the wolves would be at the door in a shot... here is the principle... we have identified about FIVE genres in music, roughly akin to the eras group 1 pre 1650 A.D. (ancient harmonies, simple harmonic, almost like gregorian chants) group 2 1650 - 1900 A.D. (Stalwart Trad Churchy) group 3 1900 - 1940 A.D. ("Dew on the Roses" sentimental) group 4 1940 - 1970 A.D. (Gaither type lyrics, harmonies etc.) group 5 post 1970 A.D. (lots of drums, energy, guitars etc.) Now, a MUSICOLOGIST may easy point out errors in my classifications, but THAT IS NOT THE POINT HERE, what IS the point is... I happen to like group 1 and group 5, but what do I do when group 4 is played, do I rejoice in the fact that some of my brothers and sisters in Christ worship God in that way, or do I grumble, mumble and cause dissent? THIS is the SAME question EACH of the member of the congregation is challenged to answer... and, so far, they have chosen to rejoice in others' joy (even when not their own favorite) ALL five groups are present in almost ALL services and, right now, the church is growing rapidly... the Young People are joyously tolerant of the Old People and the Old People are joyously tolerant of the Young People this is not a 100% state, but the grumblers and mumblers are not given undue attention because their OWN PEERS basically tell them to "get a life" I hope it keeps up!

Covaan_Meshuga -> RE: Worship Wars (6/20/2008 8:53:15 PM)
It really amazes me, Ezri, that people can be so mean -- that people who claim to be believers can be so stubborn and mean In The Name Of The L-rd! But I saw this also happen in the old church that booted me. At the time, we had a really decent pastor there, and his adult-son and others were quite good with drums, so he brought them in, and they were used during the worship service, along with other instruments: (if I can remember what all was played there) organ, piano, violin, oboe, clarinet, . . . oh, I can't remember what all. But the basic reason that pastor got removed from that church by The Powers was because of The Nine who didn't like the drums. Oh, they made up other stuff about him, too, but the bottom line was the drums. Drums. Full of the devil! Evil! Just a bunch of bang-bang-bang, and besides, doesn't the Bible say something about clanging symbols? People can just be so mean, unless they get their way. The Nine wanted to bring a group in for a concert of southern gospel music. Now, I'm not a southern gospel fan, and I made a couple jokes about that, but I came to the concert. And to my surprise, I actually enjoyed the evening and very deliberately let that be known -- especially to some of The Nine. If we can just settle down, get our eyes off out likes and dislikes, and realize that the L-rd's will does not rotate around us, a lot of congregations would finally start making some moves forward -- mainly forward in His righteousness!

WesleyGlenn -> RE: Worship Wars (6/20/2008 11:24:33 PM)
As long as God's getting the glory and a deeper form of worship is taking place, I could care less if it's coming from a hymn book or the latest CD on the market. I'm just there to give God some praise and that's just what I do. Heck, David praised God so hard and danced around till his clothes fell off. Waht do you think they'd have to say about him in the church today if that happened?

Covaan_Meshuga -> RE: Worship Wars (6/21/2008 12:03:58 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: WesleyGlenn As long as God's getting the glory and a deeper form of worship is taking place, I could care less if it's coming from a hymn book or the latest CD on the market. I'm just there to give God some praise and that's just what I do. Heck, David praised God so hard and danced around till his clothes fell off. Waht do you think they'd have to say about him in the church today if that happened? Well! Harumph! All I can say is he wan't in church! And all that dancing. No wonder his wife got so mad and gave him whatfor! If my husband wento out and danced in his underwear, I would give him whatfor, too! Disgusting. And what was he doing dancing in the first place. That's a sin! And so are drums and saxophones! And tambourines! And open-toed shoes. And wine. That was nice, chilled grape juice He made at that wedding.

_CANCELLED_ -> RE: Worship Wars (6/21/2008 11:28:48 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jn1010lf Hello daughter_of_faith Does your church love the Lord? It sounds like it doesn't. I'd leave. I can't see where you got that idea. Just wanted to say to the OP, I've never heard of worship wars.

klpowell -> RE: Worship Wars (6/21/2008 11:35:44 AM)
I know my church had one of these "worship wars" not to long ago. A young pastor took over the church and he played guitar and led singing and their was a group in the church ( a very outspoken minority) who perferred what the church had done under the last pastor which was sing along with worship dvd's. The church nearly split and it led to an ousting of the pastor, which is a terrible thing and my heart still breaks for him as his ministry has never recovered. Sadly to say those leading the charge are mostly gone from the church as well and those left are very open to the different styles of worship and we have a nice blend of old, new, and dvd's now. The denomination had to send in an "Interim healing pastor" who after about a year was elected to be our permenant pastor and has done alot of good. It still sad to see what different choices in music can do to a chruch. Worship is supposed to be God inspired and I don't care what style it is if it praises God it's all good.

daughter_of_faith -> RE: Worship Wars (6/21/2008 2:08:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Won_by_One quote: ORIGINAL: jn1010lf Hello daughter_of_faith Does your church love the Lord? It sounds like it doesn't. I'd leave. I can't see where you got that idea. Just wanted to say to the OP, I've never heard of worship wars. Worship wars refers to the "war" that takes place in churches because of different styles of music to worship God. I think you probably figured that out by reading the replies. Some people like the traditional hymns while others have gone to more contemporary praise/worship songs. There is a clash between people regarding what is right, much as there is in almost every area in the church when there is change. I've heard of church splits because people couldn't agree on what color the carpet should be.[8\|] My current church went through one a few years back (before I came). I was on the worship team for awhile and sometimes people would make mention of the war, etc. That's part of what made me decide to leave the worship team (there were other reasons). But some people really felt as though it was best to totally eliminate hymns, etc. I can't agree with that. There has to be a sense of balance somehow...somewhere. My previous church had attained this delicate balance...not sure how...but they had done it. There were traditional hymns as well as more modern praise and worship songs at pretty much every service. It seemed to work pretty well.....

jbow -> RE: Worship Wars (6/21/2008 4:26:35 PM)
I have an opinion on this. We go to a Calvary Chapel and frankly, I have a hard time worshipping there because they do new songs every week. There are a few songs that are done semi-regularly but most are new. I spend the time looking at the screen trying to read the words, it hinders my worship but I am not complaining, it's just the fact of the matter. I really don't care about the style so much as I do about being comfortable and being able to focus on God instead of a new song. I would not take it upon myself to complain to the pastor though. BTW, if drums are wicked than so are pianos, they are percussion instruments also. I would prefer a mix of old and new, but it's not my decision. J

LCannon -> RE: Worship Wars (6/21/2008 4:44:32 PM)
My preference is just that, my preference however I have no control. I feel the music/worship selection in our assembly is a balanced blend of classic and contemporary leaning to the 'fluff' but hey it's the way it(darn spellcheck!)is. Seems to me that there's a trend more and more to the minor keys in the contemporary genre. Even the 'classics' have inherited that gene.

CherishedbyGod -> RE: Worship Wars (6/21/2008 6:23:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jbow I have an opinion on this. We go to a Calvary Chapel and frankly, I have a hard time worshipping there because they do new songs every week. There are a few songs that are done semi-regularly but most are new. I spend the time looking at the screen trying to read the words, it hinders my worship but I am not complaining, it's just the fact of the matter. I really don't care about the style so much as I do about being comfortable and being able to focus on God instead of a new song. I would not take it upon myself to complain to the pastor though. J Been there/done that...It does make it hard to "lose oneself" in God when one is concentrating on seeing the words for the first time...

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