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:: Does Isaiah 53:5 guarantee our healing today? - 6/22/2008 6:14:12 PM
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earthless
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The mantra "by his stripes we are healed" is repeated endlessly in Christian circles. However, these words extracted from Isaiah 53:5 focus on spiritual rather than physical healing.
First, a quick look at the context makes it clear that Isaiah had spiritual rather than physical healing in mind: Christ "was wounded for our transgressions, He was bruised for our iniquities; The chastisement for our peace was upon Him, And by His stripes we are healed (Isaiah 53:5, NKJV).
Peter builds on this understanding when he writes, "He Himself bore our sins in His Body on the tree, so that we might die to sins and live for righteousness by His wounds you have been healed" (1 Peter 2:24).
Furthermore, while healing for the body is not referred to in Isaiah 53:5, it is referred to in the verse immediately preceding it. Here Isaiah writes, "Surely He has borne our grief’s and carried our sorrows; Yet was esteemed Him stricken, smitten by God, and afflicted" (Isaiah 53:4), NKJV).
Physical healing here is not only clear in context, but it is affirmed by the Gospels where it is given an important qualification: "When evening came, many who were demon possessed were brought to Him, and He drove out the spirits with a word and healed all the sick. This was to fulfill what was spoken through the prophet Isaiah: "He took up our infirmities and carried our diseases'" (Matthew 8:16-17).
Thus, the healing here was fulfilled during the ministry of Jesus Christ and does not guarantee healing today.
Finally, I should note that in a real sense Christ's atonement on the cross does extend to physical healing. One day, "there will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things have passed away" (Revelation 21:4).
However, as the apostle Paul points out, "We hope for what we do not yet have, we wait for it patiently" (Romans 8:25).
In the meantime, we will all experience sickness and suffering. Indeed, those who live before Christ returns will all die of their last disease - the death rate is one per person and we're all going to make it!
_____________________________
Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: :: Does Isaiah 53:5 guarantee our healing today? - 6/22/2008 7:00:13 PM
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Kat_D
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I strongly agree with you Earthless, and I could never understand how people could twist that verse to make it fit their belief that Christ died so we would live a life without sickness.
That verse has nothing to do with physical healing and has everything to do with spiritual healing...what did Jesus go to the cross for? He went to save us from the sentence of hell that we deserved because of our sin. He paid the ultimate price, so that we could have forgiveness and fellowship with Him here, and when this life is over, an eternity with Him in heaven.
_____________________________
~Kat
"...And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes...no more death, sorrow, nor crying."
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RE: :: Does Isaiah 53:5 guarantee our healing today? - 6/22/2008 7:30:16 PM
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ChristopherJ
Posts: 229
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From: Canada (The True North Strong and Free!)
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Earthless,
I believe in the passage in Isaiah 53, the prophet is describing the many different blessings that came from Christ's death on the Cross, His stripes, etc:
- forgiveness of sins
- peace
- healing (of sicknesses)
- help in time of grief and sorrow
All believers seem to agree that Jesus will forgive sins, bring us peace in life's storms, help us in our grieving and sorrows, and yet for some reason, those same believers don't want to believe in Jesus' ability or willingness to heal physical sicknesses. And yet - look at how Matthew quoted this Isaiah 53 passage in His Gospel, attributing it to Jesus' healing ministry:
"Now when Jesus had come into Peter's house, He saw his wife's mother lying sick with a fever. So He touched her hand, and the fever left her. And she arose and served them. When evening had come, they brought to Him many who were demon-possessed. And He cast out the spirits with a word, and healed all who were sick, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Isaiah the prophet, saying: "He Himself took our infirmities And bore our sicknesses." (Matthew 8:14-17).
I believe that just as much as Jesus is the Saviour who forgives our sins, He also heals our sicknesses.
"A Psalm of David. Bless the Lord, O my soul; And all that is within me, bless His holy name! Bless the Lord, O my soul, And forget not all His benefits: Who forgives all your iniquities, Who heals all your diseases." (Psalm 103:1-3).
Now, having stated that I believe that Jesus heals sicknesses today, let me clarify: I do not believe - as the Word Faith preachers falsely claim - that ALL are healed (if you have enough faith). Our job is to pray for the sick - and sometimes they get healed, and sometimes they don't. As long as we are living on Planet Earth - on this sin-cursed planet - we WILL have periods of being sick, and periods of being healthy. We will never be totally and completed healed, and free from pain, suffering, sickness, death, etc. until we get to Heaven.
_____________________________
Chris Jordan
www.beausejourchurch.ca
http://thelandofpromise.blogspot.com/
(visit our website for free MP3 audio sermons, sermon notes, articles, devotionals and more).
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RE: :: Does Isaiah 53:5 guarantee our healing today? - 6/22/2008 7:31:35 PM
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ChristopherJ
Posts: 229
Joined: 11/30/2007
From: Canada (The True North Strong and Free!)
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p.s.
earthless,
I've noticed in a few threads that you've started in here, you have used various Scriptures as a springboard that I have been preaching on lately... have you been sneaking a peak at my sermon notes? :)
_____________________________
Chris Jordan
www.beausejourchurch.ca
http://thelandofpromise.blogspot.com/
(visit our website for free MP3 audio sermons, sermon notes, articles, devotionals and more).
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RE: :: Does Isaiah 53:5 guarantee our healing today? - 6/22/2008 7:54:27 PM
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zoebob
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I've never heard anyone use that verse before to mean physical healing
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L-R: Ellies DD1, Ellies DD2, DS, Ellies DS3
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RE: :: Does Isaiah 53:5 guarantee our healing today? - 6/22/2008 8:05:11 PM
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colliefan
Posts: 2789
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quote:
ORIGINAL: zoebob
I've never heard anyone use that verse before to mean physical healing
I have. I suffer from a progressive genetic order that causes tumors to form on nerve endings. It is painful and there is no cure. I have been told that if I just believe the right way, God will change my DNA..
While in the extreme, this doctrine has caused death because of a refusal to seek proper medical help. This belief is featured as a core belief of many a WOF church.
< Message edited by colliefan -- 6/22/2008 8:11:36 PM >
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RE: :: Does Isaiah 53:5 guarantee our healing today? - 6/22/2008 8:37:21 PM
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Kat_D
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quote:
ORIGINAL: colliefan
quote:
ORIGINAL: zoebob
I've never heard anyone use that verse before to mean physical healing
I have. I suffer from a progressive genetic order that causes tumors to form on nerve endings. It is painful and there is no cure. I have been told that if I just believe the right way, God will change my DNA..
While in the extreme, this doctrine has caused death because of a refusal to seek proper medical help. This belief is featured as a core belief of many a WOF church.
I have heard it many times too, Colliefan.
I am so sorry about your disease. I pray God would heal you, but if He doesn't, I pray (and I know) that He will give you comfort and everything you need to cope...and that He would be glorified through it. (((((Colliefan)))))
_____________________________
~Kat
"...And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes...no more death, sorrow, nor crying."
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RE: :: Does Isaiah 53:5 guarantee our healing today? - 6/22/2008 8:59:09 PM
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prophet
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Hi Collief
May the Lord extend His healing to your body and grant your grace to overcome those pains.
Shalom
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Create in me a Clean Heart, O Lord.
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RE: :: Does Isaiah 53:5 guarantee our healing today? - 6/22/2008 10:14:39 PM
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earthless
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ChristopherJ
Now, having stated that I believe that Jesus heals sicknesses today, let me clarify: I do not believe - as the Word Faith preachers falsely claim - that ALL are healed (if you have enough faith). Our job is to pray for the sick - and sometimes they get healed, and sometimes they don't. As long as we are living on Planet Earth - on this sin-cursed planet - we WILL have periods of being sick, and periods of being healthy. We will never be totally and completed healed, and free from pain, suffering, sickness, death, etc. until we get to Heaven.
And that was the main focus of my thread - because the Word of Faith people do indeed use that verse to preach the "Jesus unequivocally physically heals everyone and anyone" with "enough faith".
Please do not misunderstand me.
Does God still heal today? YES!
Does God still prosper today? YES!
Are 100% of all Christians supposed to be healthy and wealthy? NOPE.
Are sick Christians sick because of a lack of faith? No.
Are financially poor Christians poor because they are not "good enough" Christians? No.
Jesus said, "In this world you will have trouble, but take heart! I have overcome the world" (John 16:33). In sharp contrast, many popular teachers promise unlimited health and wealth to believers who can conjure up their brand of faith.
Jesus exhorted His followers not to "labor for that which perishes" but to "labor for that which is eternal" (John 6:27). The prosperity gospel, by contrast, encourages Christians to focus on what they can receive from Christ in the here and now.
Much so-called Christian TV and radio programming today panders to what peoples' "itching ears" want to hear: the promise of earthly gain. Over and over again we hear the testimonies of businessmen who "turned on to" Jesus and saw their businesses double, or athletes whose statistics improved as a result of their faith formulas and Christ.
Sacrifice and service have been traded in for self-fulfillment and self-aggrandizement.
And while there is an element of reality in the message (faith is essential to effective prayer; Christ does meet our needs), sadly, the emphasis render it merely the skin of the truth stuffed with a lie.
Christ has become merely a means to an end, and believers are induced through slick Madison Avenue manipulation to come to the Master's table, not to experience fellowship and intimacy with the Master, but to enjoy what is on the Master's table.
In sharp distinction to this message, the Jesus of the Scriptures is not a means to an end, He is the end (Philippians 3:7-8).
Jesus predicted for His followers poverty, rejection, and persecution.
His disciples were willing to face the tyrant's brandished steel, the lion's gory mane, and the fires of a thousand deaths because they knew that they were not of this world. They were merely pilgrims and sojourners in a foreign land.
Perhaps Charles Haddon Spurgeon said it best: "The Old Covenant was a covenant of prosperity, the New Covenant is a Covenant of Adversity whereby we are weaned from the present world and made meet (fit) for the world to come."
In Hebrews 11, often referred to as the "Faith Hall of Fame," we read of those who were commended for their faith, yet were destitute, persecuted, imprisoned, and suffered torturous deaths. These men and women set examples for us, and yet their lives were characterized more by perseverance than by prosperity.
Certainly, this message will not sell well in a self-indulgent age.
Nonetheless, we had better be glad that our heavenly Father decides what is best for us and not we ourselves, because only He truly understands what we need and what we can handle. One shudders to think of what would happen if God gave us everything we clamored for.
I do not wish to be misunderstood: I believe in divine healing and in God's provision for every detail of our lives. In addition, I do not associate piety with poverty. I thank God for those He has prospered who are dedicated to using their resources for the extension of His Kingdom.
But for the Word of Faith teachers, healing and prosperity became so important that they had to find some way to guarantee them, and they did this by exalting man's faith at the expense of God's sovereignty.
Thus, they developed the doctrine that God created the world out of nothing by faith, and that He created men as "little gods" to exercise the same kind of faith. Faith therefore becomes a powerful force that gets results, whether in the hands of a believer or a nonbeliever.
On the basis of this virtual deification of human faith, the purveyors of the Word of Faith message promise health and wealth to those who exercise faith in their faith rather than faith in their God. As has been well said elsewhere, faith is only as good as the object on which it is placed.
Walter Martin used to say, "All faith is subsumed under the overarching biblical doctrine of the sovereignty of God." The Creator is the Lord of the universe, not a cosmic "gofer" at the beck and call of His creation.
It is not our faith that sits on the throne, but our sovereign God (1 Chronicles 29:10-12).
_____________________________
Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: :: Does Isaiah 53:5 guarantee our healing today? - 6/22/2008 11:39:37 PM
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ChristopherJ
Posts: 229
Joined: 11/30/2007
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earthless,
Thanks for your great post... as we continue to dialogue and discuss things with one another, I am seeing that we have more in common in our beliefs than I originally thought! :) Bless you today...
_____________________________
Chris Jordan
www.beausejourchurch.ca
http://thelandofpromise.blogspot.com/
(visit our website for free MP3 audio sermons, sermon notes, articles, devotionals and more).
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RE: :: Does Isaiah 53:5 guarantee our healing today? - 11/11/2008 12:50:50 PM
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earthless
Posts: 6283
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From: where pigeons are wearing sweaters....
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To the top due to current discussion.
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Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: :: Does Isaiah 53:5 guarantee our healing today? - 11/12/2008 3:35:45 PM
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phosadaud
Posts: 10649
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From: Washington State
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I am set free from the penalty for my sin (separation from God). I am not set free... for now... of the consequences of a fallen world. The healing discussed in Isaiah is clearly a spiritual healing from a spiritual problem.
I am not denying physical healings. I have been blessed to have received miraculous & divine healing upon my body. I also have a thorn (a physical thorn) that God has chosen not to take from me. I may carry this thorn until the day I die. That's ok. My role here on earth was never about me, myself and I. So, I give God my weaknesses and ask that if He chooses not to remove them, that He use them, somehow, for His Kingdom and give me the strength to live with it.
And we have faithful God who will do just that - no matter how He chooses to answer my prayers.
One of my all time favorite verses in Scripture was something the Lord spoke to my heart when I was going through a very difficult time in my life:
Proverbs 3:5-6 Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding; in all your ways acknowledge him, and he will make your paths straight. [emphasis mine]
God sees the big picture. I don't. Period. I may not understand why some are healed and others are not. I may not understand why He will heal the person who doubts but not the faithful saint who trusts Him with all their heart. I may not understand why I "formula" seems to work for one, but not another or why the guy who is sinning against God is healed but the faithful servant is left wanting. I may not know why the "wicked" prosper.
Ro 8:28 And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose.
But I know one thing for sure: God loves me and will work ALL things for the good of me if I follow Him. ALL things. Not just things I understand. Not just things that make sense. Not just good stuff. ALL things. And what is for my good, is not for me, in my finite mind with my finite understanding to determine.
That's trust. That's faith. That's submission.
To tell God what is for our good and HOW he is supposed to accomplish is not only arrogant, but wrong.
_____________________________
~Kristin~
Resume Quotations: "I worked as a Corporate Lesion."
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RE: :: Does Isaiah 53:5 guarantee our healing today? - 11/13/2008 8:17:40 PM
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Brock.L
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How could an Old Testament person understand the idea of Christ dying for our sins (our transgressions and iniquities) actually bearing the punishment that we deserved?
God was pulling aside the curtain of time to let the people of Isaiah's day look ahead to the suffering of the future Messiah and the resulting forgiveness made available to all mankind.
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RE: :: Does Isaiah 53:5 guarantee our healing today? - 11/13/2008 8:24:41 PM
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Brock.L
Posts: 32
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ChristopherJ
Earthless,
I believe in the passage in Isaiah 53, the prophet is describing the many different blessings that came from Christ's death on the Cross, His stripes, etc:
- forgiveness of sins
- peace
- healing (of sicknesses)
- help in time of grief and sorrow
All believers seem to agree that Jesus will forgive sins, bring us peace in life's storms, help us in our grieving and sorrows, and yet for some reason, those same believers don't want to believe in Jesus' ability or willingness to heal physical sicknesses. And yet - look at how Matthew quoted this Isaiah 53 passage in His Gospel, attributing it to Jesus' healing ministry:
"Now when Jesus had come into Peter's house, He saw his wife's mother lying sick with a fever. So He touched her hand, and the fever left her. And she arose and served them. When evening had come, they brought to Him many who were demon-possessed. And He cast out the spirits with a word, and healed all who were sick, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Isaiah the prophet, saying: "He Himself took our infirmities And bore our sicknesses." (Matthew 8:14-17).
I believe that just as much as Jesus is the Saviour who forgives our sins, He also heals our sicknesses.
"A Psalm of David. Bless the Lord, O my soul; And all that is within me, bless His holy name! Bless the Lord, O my soul, And forget not all His benefits: Who forgives all your iniquities, Who heals all your diseases." (Psalm 103:1-3).
Now, having stated that I believe that Jesus heals sicknesses today, let me clarify: I do not believe - as the Word Faith preachers falsely claim - that ALL are healed (if you have enough faith). Our job is to pray for the sick - and sometimes they get healed, and sometimes they don't. As long as we are living on Planet Earth - on this sin-cursed planet - we WILL have periods of being sick, and periods of being healthy. We will never be totally and completed healed, and free from pain, suffering, sickness, death, etc. until we get to Heaven.
Hi ChristopherJ
Little curious about your last paragraph. Maybe there is something here I can learn, and Im always opened to learning. Is there Scripture stating that "sometimes they get healed and sometimes they dont?" And how do you know if you're the one that will get healed and if you're the one that wont get healed?
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RE: :: Does Isaiah 53:5 guarantee our healing today? - 11/13/2008 10:03:14 PM
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colliefan
Posts: 2789
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Raleigh, NC
Status: offline
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Matt 8:18 (ESV) 18Now when Jesus saw a great crowd around him, he gave orders to go over to the other side.
Notice, he didn't say everyonne line up to get your healing
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RE: :: Does Isaiah 53:5 guarantee our healing today? - 11/13/2008 10:05:47 PM
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LoyalGypsy
Posts: 2458
Joined: 4/12/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
The mantra "by his stripes we are healed" is repeated endlessly in Christian circles. However, these words extracted from Isaiah 53:5 focus on spiritual rather than physical healing.
First, a quick look at the context makes it clear that Isaiah had spiritual rather than physical healing in mind: Christ "was wounded for our transgressions, He was bruised for our iniquities; The chastisement for our peace was upon Him, And by His stripes we are healed (Isaiah 53:5, NKJV).
Peter builds on this understanding when he writes, "He Himself bore our sins in His Body on the tree, so that we might die to sins and live for righteousness by His wounds you have been healed" (1 Peter 2:24).
Furthermore, while healing for the body is not referred to in Isaiah 53:5, it is referred to in the verse immediately preceding it. Here Isaiah writes, "Surely He has borne our grief’s and carried our sorrows; Yet was esteemed Him stricken, smitten by God, and afflicted" (Isaiah 53:4), NKJV).
Physical healing here is not only clear in context, but it is affirmed by the Gospels where it is given an important qualification: "When evening came, many who were demon possessed were brought to Him, and He drove out the spirits with a word and healed all the sick. This was to fulfill what was spoken through the prophet Isaiah: "He took up our infirmities and carried our diseases'" (Matthew 8:16-17).
Thus, the healing here was fulfilled during the ministry of Jesus Christ and does not guarantee healing today.
Finally, I should note that in a real sense Christ's atonement on the cross does extend to physical healing. One day, "there will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things have passed away" (Revelation 21:4).
However, as the apostle Paul points out, "We hope for what we do not yet have, we wait for it patiently" (Romans 8:25).
In the meantime, we will all experience sickness and suffering. Indeed, those who live before Christ returns will all die of their last disease - the death rate is one per person and we're all going to make it!
quote:
Thus, the healing here was fulfilled during the ministry of Jesus Christ and does not guarantee healing today.
How many stripes were on his back?
_____________________________
Ex 19:5 Now therefore, if you will indeed obey My voice
...So the Persians ask that the 300 drop their arms. Leonidas responds; "Persians! Come and get them!"
300 The Movie
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RE: :: Does Isaiah 53:5 guarantee our healing today? - 11/14/2008 8:13:07 AM
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earthless
Posts: 6283
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: where pigeons are wearing sweaters....
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quote:
ORIGINAL: LoyalGypsy
How many stripes were on his back?
I am not sure what you're asking, sorry. What would the number of stripes matter when the result of His precious shed blood is the same? Our salvation, payment for our sin.
_____________________________
Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: :: Does Isaiah 53:5 guarantee our healing today? - 11/14/2008 9:35:51 AM
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Brock.L
Posts: 32
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quote:
ORIGINAL: LoyalGypsy
quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
The mantra "by his stripes we are healed" is repeated endlessly in Christian circles. However, these words extracted from Isaiah 53:5 focus on spiritual rather than physical healing.
First, a quick look at the context makes it clear that Isaiah had spiritual rather than physical healing in mind: Christ "was wounded for our transgressions, He was bruised for our iniquities; The chastisement for our peace was upon Him, And by His stripes we are healed (Isaiah 53:5, NKJV).
Peter builds on this understanding when he writes, "He Himself bore our sins in His Body on the tree, so that we might die to sins and live for righteousness by His wounds you have been healed" (1 Peter 2:24).
Furthermore, while healing for the body is not referred to in Isaiah 53:5, it is referred to in the verse immediately preceding it. Here Isaiah writes, "Surely He has borne our grief’s and carried our sorrows; Yet was esteemed Him stricken, smitten by God, and afflicted" (Isaiah 53:4), NKJV).
Physical healing here is not only clear in context, but it is affirmed by the Gospels where it is given an important qualification: "When evening came, many who were demon possessed were brought to Him, and He drove out the spirits with a word and healed all the sick. This was to fulfill what was spoken through the prophet Isaiah: "He took up our infirmities and carried our diseases'" (Matthew 8:16-17).
Thus, the healing here was fulfilled during the ministry of Jesus Christ and does not guarantee healing today.
Finally, I should note that in a real sense Christ's atonement on the cross does extend to physical healing. One day, "there will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things have passed away" (Revelation 21:4).
However, as the apostle Paul points out, "We hope for what we do not yet have, we wait for it patiently" (Romans 8:25).
In the meantime, we will all experience sickness and suffering. Indeed, those who live before Christ returns will all die of their last disease - the death rate is one per person and we're all going to make it!
quote:
Thus, the healing here was fulfilled during the ministry of Jesus Christ and does not guarantee healing today.
How many stripes were on his back?
I have heard this before, but I cant remember, I'll see what I can find.
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