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RE: Why Is America Something to be Proud Of? - 7/15/2008 9:24:51 PM
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HisFish
Posts: 540
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From: Rocky mountain way
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quote:
I work with the elderly in a nursing home. I am a volunteer chaplain who holds services three times a month on Sunday afternoon. I have seen the power of the Gospel there in that home. During the four years, I have been going to this particular facility, I have seen four precious folks come to Christ. The oldest was 94 years old and an old line catholic. The most recent was a man 81 years old who accepted Christ on Father's day after the service.
Some people have said to me, why do you bother with those old folks? Aren't they set in their ways too much for God to reach them? Aren't their minds too far gone for them to understand? My answer is that "as long as there is life and breath, there is hope with God." He can do anything - and he does!!! Praise his Holy Name!!
Preacher2, what an awesome report. That gives me hope for my unsaved parents who are in their mid seventies. I have been praying for them for 20yrs now, and still no interest on their part. You give me hope to keep praying. God bless you in your ministry.
_____________________________
The theology of the present aims at the deification of man, but the truth of all time
magnifies God . C. H. Spurgeon
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RE: Why Is America Something to be Proud Of? - 7/15/2008 9:35:56 PM
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galadriel2
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We seem, 2Preacher, to agree on most everything. I am happy that people have gotten saved where you preach at the nursing home. The only thing I would correct you on is that it is God who starts a revival - not man - not even God's people. Revival is God deciding to act in a more dramatic way, revealing His glory by granting repentence to many people and just revealing His glory in general, how He chooses, to His people. I agree that there is way too much sin in the church and this blocks the flow of God's power and grace. We are way too much like the world.
God bless,
Galadriel2
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RE: Why Is America Something to be Proud Of? - 7/15/2008 11:49:21 PM
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2Preacher
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quote:
The only thing I would correct you on is that [b]it is God who starts a revival - not man - not even God's people. Revival is God deciding to act in a more dramatic way, revealing His glory by granting repentence to many people and just revealing His glory in general, how He chooses, to His people.
My friend, I agree with your statement, but I believe that God sends revival in response to his peoples attitude toward him. It is completely true that God decides when he sends revival, where he sends it , and why he sends it, but if the prayers and confessions of his people have nothing to do with it, why would he put verses like II Chronicles 7:14 in the Bible?
I can see that we are not going to "agree" totally, and that is OK. It is good to know that we agree on most things. Some others will have to wait for Heaven to be understood.
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RE: Why Is America Something to be Proud Of? - 7/16/2008 12:37:58 AM
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galadriel2
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God bless you, 2Preacher.
Galadriel2
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RE: Why Is America Something to be Proud Of? - 7/16/2008 12:54:49 AM
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2Preacher
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Galadriel2:
You didn't attempt to answer my "why?" question last post. SUP?
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RE: Why Is America Something to be Proud Of? - 7/16/2008 1:27:07 AM
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bob97
Posts: 1779
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From: Kansas
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quote:
My question still remains, are American Christians so far gone from God, that they cannot hear his call?
To far gone…no, but they might be too complacent, just plain not wanting to get involved. It’s kind of like seeing a person in need on the roadside and thinking I’ll say a prayer for him (when I get time).
The moral majority know what’s right in their hearts but their too busy to act.
Bob
_____________________________
The LORD clears the road for me!
The LORD is my high ridge, my stronghold, my deliverer!
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RE: Why Is America Something to be Proud Of? - 7/16/2008 5:45:19 AM
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galadriel2
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Thanks again, 2Preacher, for your response. I didn't answer your 'why' question because I didn't want to discuss yet another disagreement - but I will answer it now since you ask. Why God sends a revival is because He chooses to and for no other reason. It isn't in response so much to something that His people do as that He stirs up in their hearts a desire for revival and then He responds to that desire that He has stirred up.
In response to some other posts (I can't remember who posted them) - I am thankful for all the creature comforts that I have because I live in America. You can definitely pass through this life more comfortably than most if you are an American. I mean, my three dogs live better than large portions of the rest of the world. It is also nice to be able to get pretty good Bible teaching rather easily here in the States - if you don't get lost in all the crummy and false teaching first.
As far as freedom of religion - I had the Bill of Rights ripped out from underneath me by a bunch of corrupt government officials and 'helpful' civilians because I have tried to win terrorists to Christ on line. Needless to say - they have totally molested my soul and spirit and have done profound damage to my family by attacking me so ignorantly and cruelly and then my learning to deal with it has effected my family profoundly and very negatively. All my medical records have been falsified as well as a critical court document. America is great as long as you're materialistic and keep Christ behind closed doors or only bring the part of Christ that the world likes out from the church. I also had my home regularly broken into by these same perverse officials. They would slightly move things, steal things that pertained just to me and my personal life (that no one else would really know about) in order to try and get me to doubt my ability to perceive and remember reality. If I would say anything about it it would be written off as a pyschosis because of the falsified medical records. Yeah, America is a great place. I will say this - though my church doesn't discern at all what has happened in my life - in spite of what I try and tell them - they still loved me through it and gave me faithful teaching - though not the best - and that was very refreshing to my soul. So God's people weren't perfect through it - but they helped none the less - just like the word describes God's people.
I still love America for what she was founded to be - where one could worship Christ freely - and there still are places in America where this is pursued.
God bless,
Galadriel2
< Message edited by galadriel2 -- 7/16/2008 6:05:36 AM >
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RE: Why Is America Something to be Proud Of? - 7/16/2008 6:54:46 AM
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galadriel2
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When I say 'materialistic' I am not knocking America as an entrepreneurial country. I probably didn't word that right. Our wealth and creature comforts are something to be thankful for.
God bless,
Galadriel2
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RE: Why Is America Something to be Proud Of? - 7/16/2008 8:06:06 AM
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mapachito13
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bob97
To far gone…no, but they might be too complacent, just plain not wanting to get involved. It’s kind of like seeing a person in need on the roadside and thinking I’ll say a prayer for him (when I get time).
Bob
Which makes us no different than the rabbi in the story of the Good Samaritan. I think Christians also are complacent in the fact that all they need is faith. But Christ wanted us to be a people of faith AND ACTION.
"You must perceive that a person is justified by his works and not by faith alone." James 2:24 (Actually read verses 14-26)
Even Jesus' own words in Matthew 25:31-46 tell us on how our action (or lack of it) in response to our faith in Him will save us or send us to eternal punishment. 1 Corinthians 13 mentions how our love for others even is more important than faith, hope and spiritual gifts. (Verse 13)
Maybe that's what's wrong with us Christians. We are too busy preaching the Word that we don't spend any time actually living the Word!
_____________________________
Three Nails to protect us!
And Justice for all!
Peace Sells....But Who's Buying!
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RE: Why Is America Something to be Proud Of? - 7/16/2008 8:33:49 AM
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Strider33
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I think "materialisitc" is the right word.
One of America's problems regarding material things is that, overall, we have been consuming more than we produce for several decades now. That means that, overall, we have been getting poorer rather than richer.
Of course the overall statistic doesn't really describe individual lives. Some Americans have been getting richer while others have been getting dramatically poorer. This is even true in the so called disappearing middle class. About a third of them are gaining ground while the other two thirds are living beyond their means.
The poverty that results from living beyond your means doesn't become apparent until one is forced to stop doing it.
There's a worse problem with materialism than that. When material goods become a kind of idol in and of themselves, rather thjan a means to an end, the spiritual condition of the materialist gets degraded. For saved people, this doesn't mean that God leaves them or forsakes them. God doesn't do that (see Hebrews). It does mean that their lives are less fulfilling than they otherwise could be.
For unsaved people, materialism is a substitute for faith. It can't work, but they don't know that. There are a number of people in America who need to come to a saving relationship to Christ. Many of those people have never heard the basic Gospel message.
America is fertile ground for Christian missionaries. So is Canada and Europe. We're still sending missionaires overseas, but we need to receive some. Unfortunately, most foreigners who come to America come to participate in materialism rather than to alter it.
_____________________________
Not all those who wander are lost.
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RE: Why Is America Something to be Proud Of? - 7/16/2008 11:54:36 AM
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2Preacher
Posts: 85
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quote:
if the prayers and confessions of his people have nothing to do with it, why would he put verses like II Chronicles 7:14 in the Bible?
Galadriel2:
Thanks for the response. I agree with you that God sends Revival of his own accord, but you missed the second part of my "why" question. What about that? I realize, as you have pointed out, that, in your opinion, I have lifted the verse out of context, but the question remains.
God himself answered Solomon in this way. Would he not also answer the church the same way? Has he changed? I don't think so. "I am the Lord, I change not"... (Mal 3:6) "Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and today, and forever". (Heb. 13:8) God is immutable in all of his attributes and person. He does not change.
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RE: Why Is America Something to be Proud Of? - 7/16/2008 12:05:37 PM
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2Preacher
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BTW Galadriel, Now I understand your cynicism toward the government a little better. Sorry for all that has happened to you my friend. We must be extremely careful who we correspond with these days, especially with "Big Brother" lurking around every corner and listening in on our conversations.
The "lurking" and "listening in " are justified in a sense. But it is a case of a few making life difficult for the rest of us. A few "bad apples" in our nation who do things that are illegal make it rough for those of us who have no ill intentions or illegal activities in mind. The government feels as though they cannot take a chance - and indeed, in this day and age, they cannot take a chance with our national security. Consequently, everyone is suspect. I think it is typical governmental over reaction to a real problem.
I don't like it any more than you do. This is why I limit my activities on line rather severely at times.
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RE: Why Is America Something to be Proud Of? - 7/16/2008 10:25:21 PM
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galadriel2
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Thank you so much for the kind and encouraging responses, 2Preacher, Strider33 (like the 'strider' part), etc.. Thanks Mapachito.
This isn't my own idea but tonight my pastor preached on Jesus in Matthew 9 seeing the multitudes and how they were wearied and burdened down by the world, the flesh, and the devil - as sheep without a shepherd. His solution was to pray to the Lord of the harvest that He would send out laborers. This seems like a very good teaching for what we are going over. My pastor sighted how the elite were of no use to anyone - but a common laborer for the Lord - how useful to men.
God bless all abundantly,
Galadriel2
I think, 2Preacher, that good NT verses for praying for sinners and the church is in 1 John 5 and James chapter 5 - about restoring a sinner. 1 John 5 - you know - goes over praying for someone in sin, but not for someone committing a sin 'unto death'. There isn't much we can do about that.
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RE: Why Is America Something to be Proud Of? - 7/16/2008 10:33:13 PM
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galadriel2
Posts: 128
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2Preacher - as far as the Lord never changing and won't He answer us the same as He promised Solomon - yes - but you have to get the meaning of the promise right. Again, I think the promise is a prayer for God's elect to get their act together. It isn't a promise to save the world - only the elect - if we were to put the promise into NT lingo. That is the application that I see. In John 17 Jesus doesn't pray for the world to be saved - only those whom the Father had given Him. Again, God didn't promise to Solomon that the people not chosen - those outside of Israel and refusing to join with Israel in their heritage of God - God doesn't promise to save them.
God bless,
Galadriel2
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RE: Why Is America Something to be Proud Of? - 7/16/2008 10:36:20 PM
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galadriel2
Posts: 128
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Anyway, I love the texts that America was founded with and has in her heritage: the Bible, the Constitution, the Declaration of Independence, the Gettysburg Address. They are ripe with meaning, relevance, and application, even in today's world.
God bless,
Galadriel2
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RE: Why Is America Something to be Proud Of? - 7/16/2008 11:13:41 PM
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JerrynDolli
Posts: 121
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Leon_Figg3
quote:
ORIGINAL: tracydolls
Your kidding right?
I'm proud my forebears slaughtered some Natives to get this land.
I'm proud that Africans built it up, with over 300 years of free labor.
I'm proud we have 600 serial killers running loose.
I'm proud we are killing innocents in Iraq and elsewhere.
I'm proud we are making everything in China.
I'm proud of the fence we are building to keep our "Neighbors" out.
I'm proud of the way we handled Katrina.
I'm proud we have abortion pay on demand
I'm proud we are letting gays getting married.
I'm proud our education system is like 28th in the world.
I'm proud we spend more on petfood than AID to other countires.
I'm proud I can wear diamonds stolen from South AFrica.
I'm especilly proud that other counties are jealous of us.
WE are such good people, the world should want to copy us.
tracydolls,
The USA is a country to be proud of for a numer of reasons.
1. As stated, this is a country of flawed people from all over the world. We have made mistakes and have learned from them, to some degree or other.
2. It allows people to dwell on the past and make highly emotional and inaccurate blanket statements about the country based on the actions and decisons of a handful of people.
3. It allows people to judge society and events of the past by the standards of today, at the same time fail to acknowledge the conditions, and thinking of the time.
Yes, what happened to "Native Americans" was terrible, but ask yourself how things could have happened any differently.
Yes, the form of slavery that existed in this country, as well as the racial struggles that resulted from it were and are terrible. The fact is that throughout the history of our country not all people were in support of it, as certain self appointed champions and marketeers of racial hatred profess it as being. From the birth of our country slavery was seen as a necessary evil that would eventually become unneccesary and rmembered as an evil that had been overcome.
I will not go any further in your list because to do so would turn this discussion into a complicated, headache producing mess as to exactly what would make us the perfect government-the perfect country.
From the list of evils you sighted it seems that you see the answer to the perfect country, the perfect governemt, in dictatorship, or theocracy. Fortuneately our for-fathers did not agree with you when forming this country. They had already seen the evils of dicatorships and theocracies. They, like our spiritual forefathers saw that the answer lay in the gift of free-will that God gave each of us.
We can either work for our own self interests or build relationships and through trial and error learn to work together for everyone's good.
Listen never call evil good, nor necessary. It is allowed because God gives mankind free will. Never the less, it did work together for good for the slaves that came to know the discovery of the Word of God by those who had the heart of Christ to share the Good News with the slaves. In fact, many slaves owners did not want the slaves to read. Reading the Word... the Truth give them liberty and the door was open to forsake trusting in their pagan hopeless faith. They discovered the Truth and the Lord **** their hearts to receive the saving knowledge of Jesus the Christ as their Lord and Savior. They became free in their souls... their hearts, though their bodies were chained. They had hope reading about how Apostle Paul endured. They learn to pray to the Father in the Name of Jesus for freedom to live as and treated as humans and not like sub-humans (animals). Those who discovered the Love of Christ Jesus, forgave those who persecuted them and tortured them. They learned to served them with hope unto the Lord. And prayed for God's Will to set them freed. These slaves had a faith that we would only hope to experience. They learn to honor God and did not want to be used as animals breeding... but, to marry in Holy the Name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. They thanked God in All Things. They gleaned from the stories of the Old Testament of Israel enslavement... of Pauls stay in Prison. They understood that only God could bring forth freedom... They understood that God use their journey across the ocean in chains would be better for them in the when they gave their lives to Jesus. That though man could destroy their bodies... man could not destroy their souls. During the Civil War... the very slave masters and mistresses that mistreated them, where the same individuals who were greatful for their steadfast faith in the Lord Jesus. Yes, I count it all Joy To Know... and to have seen How God Turns Everything around for good for those who Love Him.
As a Christian... yes, I'm first a Christian. Who God has chosen to be born an American, Chosen to be born with black skin tone in the human race, I boast of nothing. I boast only of the Lord Jesus, and that I know Him. I boast only in what He did at Calvary. There is none Good... Only God. Not America...Not Any Nation... We all Stand in the Need of Prayer. Never the less, I am very thankful to have born in this Nation. However, like Nehemiah and Solomon prayed... God forgive us all for misrepresenting your Name. In fact, this is what I wrote in the Roundtable concerning my thoughts of the upcoming election... and why we all need to be alarmed.
I beg to differ on slavery in America. For America is not the only nation who committed slavery. It has nothing to do with America. It is about the human heart. It is deceitful and extremely wicked. It is inferior. It is never about skin-tone... nor religion. Satan has deceived mankind to use that as and excuse to white wash their sin of pride. In Ireland whites warred against white all in the name of religion. In Africa blacks warred against one another. It is sinned. Mankind feels so powerless and inferior, that the only way they can feel superior is to berate and strip another of their dignity and worth. So they beat one another down and conquer. It is not flesh and blood behind this heart of wickedness ... it is the enemy of our souls, Satan. Satan hates mankind because we are the apple of God's eyes and we were created in God's image. Therefore, Satan has deceived and influence mankind to turn on and destroyed each other. He thinks he gets the last laugh.... but, his time is short. So I refuse to be upset and mad at any human being for slavery... we all fall short of God's Glory and Only He is Righteous and Good!
Anyway, here is my heart about the upcoming election in America as I wrote in the writers RoundTable:
**********************************************************************************
We know elections are just around the corner. I'm neither Democrat
nor any longer a Republican. Politicians are Politicians. I've
decided my alliance is with God's Truth. Meaning I consider myself as
a follower of Christ Jesus. My belief system is based upon the word
of God.
It is my hope we all will follow the leading of the Holy Spirit and
not be moved by smooth words, nor eloquence of speech. We should not
take man by face value, but by His Vote Record and Lifestyle. The
integrity of his character and protecting the innocent (orphans,
widows, unborn, the helpless,etc...).
Let us not vote because of the promises people make about turning the
economy around. We in America have fail to understand the God's
Word state that Righteousness exalts a nation, as a Christian Jesus is
My Righteousness. And if we Christian will conform to the likeness
of Christ as much as possible by The Holy Spirit's help (yes by God's Grace). Then we would have more influence and presence in this culture of intolerence against Christians. (And yes, we all sin and fall short of God's Glory... but, thank God for Provision through Christ Jesus to repent
and overcome the sins of our flesh, (and be cleansed by the Blood of
the Lamb). This is not the time to hide. But, live what we know to
be true and talk about. Stop pointing the fingers at unbelievers who
know NOT what they do. But live in such the way that they'll want what
we have Salvation, Love, Joy,Peace, Fearlessness (of people and circumstances), Hope, Grace, Forgiveness and Mercy. Meaning getting our hearts right (love and forgiveness towards all... one another (I'm speaking to myself too... Not a day goes by where I'm looking to repent and change in whatever area the Holy Spirit reveals). Also, remember do
not fear what is happening in the economy. God is our economy. God
will not forsake us, He will give us wisdom on how to get through
whatever come to this nation. In fact, if we will do what the word
of God said to Israel in 2 Chronicles 7:12-22
*********************************
2 Chronicles 7:12-22
12 And the LORD appeared to Solomon by night, and said unto him, I
have heard thy prayer, and have chosen this place to myself for an
house of sacrifice. 13 If I shut up heaven that there be no rain, or
if I command the locusts to devour the land, or if I send pestilence
among my people; 14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall
humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their
wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their
sin, and will heal their land. 15 Now mine eyes shall be open, and
mine ears attend unto the prayer that is made in this place. 16 For
now have I chosen and sanctified this house, that my name may be
there for ever: and mine eyes and mine heart shall be there
perpetually. 17 And as for thee, if thou wilt walk before me, as
David thy father walked, and do according to all that I have
commanded thee, and shalt observe my statutes and my judgments; 18
Then will I establish the throne of thy kingdom, according as I have
covenanted with David thy father, saying, There shall not fail thee a
man to be ruler in Israel. 19 But if ye turn away, and forsake my
statutes and my commandments, which I have set before you, and shall
go and serve other gods, and worship them; 20 Then will I pluck them
up by the roots out of my land which I have given them; and this
house, which I have sanctified for my name, will I cast out of my
sight, and will make it to be a proverb and a byword among all
nations. 21 And this house, which is high, shall be an astonishment
to every one that passeth by it; so that he shall say, Why hath the
LORD done thus unto this land, and unto this house? 22 And it shall
be answered, Because they forsook the LORD God of their fathers,
which brought them forth out of the land of Egypt, and laid hold on
other gods, and worshiped them, and served them: therefore hath he
brought all this evil upon them.
*************************************
Yes, if we who are called by His Name.. Will do the same. God can
turn the situation around. God told Abraham if he could find those
who are righteous... He would not destroy that city. In this land we have many who have not turn from God, and Jesus is our Righteousness. So we need to encouage one another not to play church but live our lives unto the Lord, showing Him we are faithful. I realize everyone is blaming the unbelievers for what is happening. But, I beg to differ. In fact, the things done inside some of the so called Christian Churches are just as vile as those they are pointing their fingers at, profaning the name of Jesus by their perverted lifestyles. God will not be mocked, nor will He continue to allow His Name to be Misrepresented. We as believers are responsible who we allow to lead us. Therefore, I do believe judgment begins in the house of the Lord. And some false shepherds (see I stated some not all pastors and teachers) who claim to serve Him yet, never tend to the Lord sheeps. They desire to worshiped and exalted, commanding other serve them but fail to serve others. They promote themselves (creating larger than life personalities) and boast of their abilities, so that the sheep are depended on them, instead of pointing the sheep to... to keep their eyes on Jesus the Living God, the ONLY TRUE SAVIOR. Yes, some false shepherds have deceived and lead some gulliable sheeps astray via encouraging division and partiality by Racism (so called black and white churches alike. There should be no race mentioned in the matters of God. In fact, Jews and Gentile are alike in the Body of Christ. (Race... we are of the human race... pride created this race thing... Again, we are of the Body of Christ). Yet, God will forgive such error if they repent of such erroneous teachings. So may we all pray for false shepherds and those who are mislead, that they will not refuse to repent, but come to their senses. I know I aspire to continuously examine my heart through the day, let us encourage all to examine our lives and not misrepresent Christ Jesus.
Yes, may the Lord give us wisdom in choosing a leader. And who ever
is allowed to win, may we continue to pray for the President and not
stone him, as we are commanded to pray for those in leadership. My choice will never be based upon a person having the same gender (female) nor skin tone (black) as I, the faith they claim to profess to be Christian... the Lord has given us guide lines to discern His own. My choice will not be based on the eloquence of speech nor the wonderful sounding promises for a better economy or health plan. My vote will be based upon the their past voting records of protecting the innocent and helpless (unborn children, violated children, elderly, orphans) protecting the right to practice our faith as other has been allowed to practice theirs and the right to celebrate our Christian beliefs as other religion have been given liberities to celebrate theirs. Though I haven't any children I want the freedom for parents to chose the schools for the children and be able to homeschool to teach family values and their own beliefs as other groups. My choice will be based on the person's past records of practice the family values they profess they do before the voters.
So I pray we will all vote with discernment and not by sight or what we hear. We do not look at the world through rose color glasses we have the Mind of Christ to vote by the Voice of Truth, His Word.
Why? Again, we should put our faith in God and not in the government to resolve this present state. I do believe that God has the Kings (decision makers heart in his Hands and will turn to our favor if we make Christ our Lord and not the idolatry of mere men and their abilities. Trust God not Man. Remember, Israel was not satisfied to have God leading them, they wanted a King of their choosing, and the Lord gave them what the wanted. A very self-centered disobedient King was Saul, he always had an excuse or a spin on what actually happened. Much heart ache... and corruption followed his reign. One could not trust him to do what was expected of him. Praise The Lord, that He is the King of Kings, that never baits and switch. He is a King of His Word who Keeps His Promises. May we vote for a Man after Gods' own heart, that is willing to fear God and not man's opinion. Who is bold enough... fearless to do that which is right in the eyes of God.
Love you all and if I offended in word... Then ask the Lord to give you
the ability to forgive me and pray for me... that I do God's Will and
not Dolli's.
In Christ Jesus,
~Dolli
Don't Give Up!Expect Great Things To Happen For You...Give The Lord
An Opportunity To Show Himself Strong Through Your Circumstances!
< Message edited by JerrynDolli -- 7/16/2008 11:42:38 PM >
_____________________________
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http://www.godtube.com/view_video.php?viewkey=ee73e63418003b47d7d5
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