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RE: Does God love Satan? - 6/30/2008 9:01:10 AM
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earthless
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What sickens me literally - is the level of humanism and political correctness that has seeped into some that profess to be Christians, born-again believers.
Even to the point of chalking up to "Scripture is not the complete Word of God..." to defend the incorrect notion that God loves everyone and Satan to boot.
Shame on us. It's because of this (and other related reasons) that so many heretical teachings have taken such deep root in our churches.
The skin of the truth stuffed with a lie.
_____________________________
Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: Does God love Satan? - 6/30/2008 11:43:07 AM
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Kath
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quote:
ORIGINAL: whisperingwaters
Your bible tells you to hate evil not to hate the being behind the evil, you can still love Satan and hate everything he stands for. No where in the bible will you find a scripture telling you to hate Satan.
I have to admit, after being in these forums for over 9 years this is probably one of the most disturbing statements I have ever read.
< Message edited by Kath -- 6/30/2008 11:53:06 AM >
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RE: Does God love Satan? - 6/30/2008 11:59:35 AM
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whisperingwaters
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 1love1God1way
My Bible tells me the ending, too. Satan is an eternally unrepentant being whose fate has been decided by the lake of fire.
He is not a being who does evil, and should be loved beyond his evil.
He is an evil being.
The end was known about Nineveh and God repented about His ager when the city repented in sack cloth and ashes, who is to say God can not repent about His anger over Satan's sin even though the end is written.
Jonah 3:9 Who can tell if God will turn and repent, and turn away from his fierce anger, that we perish not?
Our God is a great God and He is capable of repenting of the damnation proclaimed to happen to Satan if only Satan would but repent. My words for Satan would be these "today is the day of salvation" if he waits an hour then he might of waited to long who knows.
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The words of a man's mouth are as deep waters, and the well-spring of wisdom as a flowing brook. Proverbs 18:4
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RE: Does God love Satan? - 6/30/2008 12:05:33 PM
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whisperingwaters
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quote:
ORIGINAL: whisperingwaters
quote:
ORIGINAL: 1love1God1way
My Bible tells me the ending, too. Satan is an eternally unrepentant being whose fate has been decided by the lake of fire.
He is not a being who does evil, and should be loved beyond his evil.
He is an evil being.
The end was known about Nineveh and God repented about His ager when the city repented in sack cloth and ashes, who is to say God can not repent about His anger over Satan's sin even though the end is written.
Jonah 3:9 Who can tell if God will turn and repent, and turn away from his fierce anger, that we perish not?
Our God is a great God and He is capable of repenting of the damnation proclaimed to happen to Satan if only Satan would but repent. My words for Satan would be these "today is the day of salvation" if he waits an hour then he might of waited to long who knows.
I should of posted verse 10 also it reads:
10 And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he said he would do to them; and he did it not.
_____________________________
The words of a man's mouth are as deep waters, and the well-spring of wisdom as a flowing brook. Proverbs 18:4
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RE: Does God love Satan? - 6/30/2008 12:11:25 PM
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siapa
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Kath
I have to admit, after being in these forums for over 9 years this is probably one of the most disturbing statements I have ever read.
Well, Kath...I'm just a new comer compare to yourself, and I agree with you. Some of the questions in this forum really give me the creep...For me, I WILL NEVER love satan, period. God bless.
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RE: Does God love Satan? - 6/30/2008 12:20:35 PM
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Leo71
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quote:
ORIGINAL: sylvan
quote:
Since satan stands in opposition of what God is
Satan is no match for God so I have a hard time viewing Satan as a "real" adversary - any power Satan has God allows. As with Job or in Luke (22:31) where he asked God's permission to sift Simon (the disciples) as wheat. More appropriately, Satan is our adversary and it is we that stand in opposition to God. Satan seeks to undermine our faith, as in the above examples. Satan opens doors and moves in and out of our lives, but he doesn't shove sin (or apples) down our throat. The evil acts we witness on the Earth are a product of man. I think it's possible God could hate Satan, but you're approaching this from a human mindset not an ALL POWERFUL one - we don't possess that ability. Would an elephant hate a tiny little ant? Hardly I think - the elephant could squash it if it wanted too and not have to get enraged or hate filled in the process. You're assuming God is hateful, like man.
This is a good post, which stays on topic throughout. Very unassuming, too, which is refreshing from a human standpoint, since we as humans do have a nasty habit of imposing our own egos/opinions into the equation. I've said it plenty of times in the past, and at least once elsewhere on the board, but I'll say it again here...
There are two basic truths I can stand on with absolute certainty:
1.) There is a God
2.) I am definitely not Him.
And so, when all is said and done here, this particular question is one that only God Himself can answer... if He so chooses, and in His own time, since there's no direct Biblical reference to that effect, or at least that I am aware of.
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What you do today is your future.
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RE: Does God love Satan? - 6/30/2008 2:37:22 PM
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earthless
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Kath
quote:
ORIGINAL: whisperingwaters
Your bible tells you to hate evil not to hate the being behind the evil, you can still love Satan and hate everything he stands for. No where in the bible will you find a scripture telling you to hate Satan.
I have to admit, after being in these forums for over 9 years this is probably one of the most disturbing statements I have ever read.
It's really disturbing and touches on what I said this morning. It does help explain to me why certain movements and individuals have been given such large platforms in our church circles.
Because people are ignorant of the Bible - and couple that with a huge helping of humanism and emotional fickleness that trumps Scripture for them.
_____________________________
Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: Does God love Satan? - 6/30/2008 5:13:13 PM
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DreadPirateRandy
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quote:
ORIGINAL: whisperingwaters
My words for Satan would be these "today is the day of salvation" if he waits an hour then he might of waited to long who knows.
Salvation is not offered to satan, he chose his eternal path, nothing will change it. Salvation is only offered to humanity through the blood of Christ.
Jonah 3:9 isn't referring to satan at all. satan's nature is to rebel against what is right. Never would he make a choice to do something good, it's completely uncharacteristic and against his purpose of existing. Why would God turn away from His anger when satan will never turn away from evil?
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Cynicism is an unpleasant way of saying the truth.
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RE: Does God love Satan? - 6/30/2008 5:24:13 PM
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earthless
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What some are stating is, in essence, that the Bible is wrong and corrupt. Salvation is not open for Satan nor the demonic.
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Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: Does God love Satan? - 6/30/2008 11:31:26 PM
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Gazingstock
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Part of the difficultly in discussing this subject, is the English language. Respect, and mercy are a form of love. I believe a form of love God shows to all creatures, including Satan. It is not love in the traditional English sense of the word. In the emotional sense, God despises Satan, and I think almost automatically so do we. This is why we are warned:
Likewise also these [filthy] dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities. Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, "The Lord rebuke thee." -Jud 1:8-9
In the cosmic sense, God respects Satan's free will to live completely the opposite of what pleases God. God respects the choice to live life in a way that he could never love or cherish, this is a form of love we call: respect
It is the respect of God's overarching will to allow, and even to use Satan, according to his purpose. So the answer to the question does God love Satan? No. Does God give him undeserved considerations? Yes.
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Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Spirit teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual [ones]. -1Cr 2:13
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RE: Does God love Satan? - 6/30/2008 11:59:30 PM
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Kath
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quote:
In the cosmic sense, God respects Satan's free will to live completely the opposite of what pleases God. God respects the choice to live life in a way that he could never love or cherish, this is a form of love we call: respect
I do not believe that either. It is a consequence of Satan's arrogance and lust for power, I don't think God was showing him respect.
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RE: Does God love Satan? - 7/1/2008 12:05:39 AM
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Gazingstock
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quote:
I do not believe that either. It is a consequence of Satan's arrogance and lust for power, I don't think God was showing him respect.
It is not a respect of person, rather, a respect of free will.
_____________________________
Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Spirit teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual [ones]. -1Cr 2:13
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RE: Does God love Satan? - 7/1/2008 4:24:58 PM
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Psalms274
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In referring to Satan’s fall in Isaiah 14:12 God says: “How you are fallen from heaven, O shining star, son of the morning!” That sounds like a statement of grief over how someone you love has fallen.
As God foretold of the punishment He was about to bring on Moab (a nation of enemies to God), He says: My heart weeps for Moab. Its people flee to Zoar and Eglath-shelishiyah. Weeping, they climb the road to Luhith. Their cries of distress can be heard all along the road to Horonaim.”
Isaiah also says of the ones God punishes: “In all their distress he too was distressed, and the angel of his presence saved them. In his love and mercy he redeemed them; he lifted them up and carried them all the days of old. Yet they rebelled and grieved his Holy Spirit. So he turned and became their enemy and he himself fought against them.”
An enemy of God is not one He hates … it grieves His heart when something He made for His glory and delight … one He loves … chooses to rebel. But He is just and will give you over to your own desires. That is what we see in Isaiah when he talks about Satan’s fall.
As to the You-tube clip about whether God love everyone … that is probably the most inaccurately teaching I have ever witnessed. There may be a gooey grace theology that does not accurately reflect the heart of God, but his assertions are equally flawed. You cannot pick and choose passages and interpret those passages without the whole council of the word of God. According to the bible …
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.” He says the world … that means everyone … he says whosoever, that means everyone.
“Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love. This is how God showed his love among us: He sent his one and only Son into the world that we might live through him. This is love: not that we loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son as an atoning sacrifice for our sins.”
His very nature is love … but He is just, and if you chose to rebel you chose to become His enemy. Unfortunately for Satan, he does not get a chance to repent from that choice. I suspect it is because Satan dwelt in heaven with God and did not need faith to believe and had ample opportunity to get to know the character of God in the time he spent with his Creator. We have eyes veiled having not seen Him face to face, and have a chance to repent.
I do not see anywhere in the bible about anything that indicates that God delights in punishing another ... I only see passages about how it grieves his heart when those who turn away from Him perish ...
"The Lord does not delay and is not tardy or slow about what He promises, according to some people's conception of slowness, but He is long-suffering (extraordinarily patient) toward you, not desiring that any should perish, but that all should turn to repentance."
There is a passage in Isaiah that I cannot put my fingers on that talks about how much it grieves God's heart when someone dies in their sin. I wish I could find it. 
When looking at the whole council of the word of God ... we find a loving God who will not tolerate rebellion. That does not mean He doesn't love the one who rebels ... it means the one who rebels is punished. And if you are Satan, and have rebelled after seeing God face to face, you do not get a chance to repent, because you know better than to rebel having dwelt with Him. Satan chose to be God's enemy with full disclosure ... and He is now our enemy because of that decision. But I do not think it means he was never loved by God ... or is not loved by God.
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I pray that you, being rooted and established in love, may have power, together with all the saints, to grasp how wide and long and high and deep is the love of Christ.
< Linus w/ a friends baby!
http://piswa.blogspot.com/
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RE: Does God love Satan? - 7/1/2008 7:13:26 PM
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ta_mosquito
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So many of the passages brought up regarding God grieving over the rebellious are about HUMANS, not about Satan. He's a whole different being.
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Tricia
"There's a fine line between being open minded and being empty headed." ~Michael Coren
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RE: Does God love Satan? - 7/1/2008 7:36:15 PM
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Dagwat
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Several things here:
In Genesis, it states that GOD put enmity between man and serpent. I believe that is because GOD and serpent are enemies. We we created to HATE snakes, though some have managed to get around that somehow. LOL.
The word of God also tells us that GOD created HELL, a place of torment, not for the sinner, Although many will go there out of refusal to turn their life to God, but He created that place of eternal damnation FOR SATAN AND HIS ANGELS.
God so loved the world (no mention of satan here) that He gave His only begotten son......... you know the scripture by heart. John 3:16
Jesus died for the sins of man, but NOT for the gross sins of Satan. There is also an unpardonable sin that we sometimes forget, and satan clearly committed that sin. Although God has the capacity to love satan if He chooses, I have to believe with all that is within me, God HATES Satan, as much as satan hates God. The devil chose his own fate and there is no repentance for such. If God will not forgive the unpardonable sin, then unforgiveness mean HATRED. No?
God has the capacity to love whomever... yes, but we might also note that God HAS the capacity to HATE whom He chooses as well. He is God. He answers to no man.
< Message edited by Dagwat -- 7/1/2008 7:49:35 PM >
_____________________________
God knows right where each of us are, and just how to find us, even when we don't want to be found. He doesn't have to send someone down to our level to reach us. He knows exactly how to draw us to His message and to where He has placed it.
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RE: Does God love Satan? - 7/1/2008 9:41:57 PM
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Psalms274
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ta_mosquito
So many of the passages brought up regarding God grieving over the rebellious are about HUMANS, not about Satan. He's a whole different being.
Yes he is a different being ... but God's character remains the same. And in each of the 82 references in the bible to the word hate, only one is used for God saying He hates another ... when He states "Esau He hated" in Romans 9:13. Looking at a number of commentaries on Romans 9:13:
quote:
The Hebrew idiom according to Rienecker can mean "I prefer Jacob to Esau". In other words in context God choose Jacob even though Esau was the firstborn. Don't forget though that Esau sold his birthright for a mess of porridge -- he despised his birthright (Ge25:34)
quote:
"Hate" (3404) (miseo from misos = hatred) means to dislike strongly or to love less.
quote:
Hate is a relative term as employed here (referring to Romans 9:13). Jesus used the same word in a similar way when He cautioned that a man must hate his father and mother if he would come to Christ (Lu14:26). Obviously Jesus, who was an advocate of the Law (Ex 20:12), was not encouraging "hate" in the usual sense of the word. But through a consecrated use of the hyperbole of antithesis, Jesus is saying that the love a man has for Christ ought to dwarf his love for his father to the extent that the latter would seem to be "hate" by comparison. Hatred in this sense is not absolute but relative to a higher choice.
quote:
God did not "hate" Esau in the conventional sense of the word. In fact, He greatly prospered and favored him (Ge27:38-40). Esau did receive earthly blessings, as he himself testified (Ge33:9.)
However, God's favor and blessing upon Jacob was so extensive that by comparison Esau would appear to be hated. The verse could be understood to mean that God has chosen Jacob to fulfill His elective purpose, but He has passed over Esau. Keep in mind that Esau rejected God.
So we can see that God doesn't seem to hate anyone in the same way we are used to seeing the word ... I can find no reference to Him hating Satan, but I did find in Isaiah 14 that He sounded saddened by Satan's decision to rebel. Now there are some that feel this is a reference to Babylon's fall ... so ... in that case it is irrelevant.
The thing is, no where in God's word does it state that He hated another being, man or other ... lots of references about Him hating behaviors and of us hating stuff, and s a few talking about the things we should hate ... but again, in those passages, the word hate is used differently then the way we are accustomed to using it.
I am not comfortable putting words in God's mouth ... and to say that He hates Satan, I would be doing just that. I can attest to His character ... which has very healthy does of love, justice, righteousness ... all those we have come to know. And there is a wrath of God that can be experienced by those who rebel. But it IS clear in His word that He does NOT take pleasure in bringing the earned justice (His wrath) to those who disobey ... but He will do it. I think most of us have a hard time understanding how He could not hate Satan ... but it does not say that He does ...
It's a tough thing to do, but we need to remember that He is not a man ... "For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways," declares the LORD."
< Message edited by Psalms274 -- 7/1/2008 9:48:17 PM >
_____________________________
I pray that you, being rooted and established in love, may have power, together with all the saints, to grasp how wide and long and high and deep is the love of Christ.
< Linus w/ a friends baby!
http://piswa.blogspot.com/
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RE: Does God love Satan? - 7/2/2008 12:59:22 AM
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DreadPirateRandy
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ta_mosquito
So many of the passages brought up regarding God grieving over the rebellious are about HUMANS, not about Satan. He's a whole different being.
That's what I and other have been trying to say.
I still think only a lunatic would believe we're supposed to love the being who's purpose is to make our lives a living hell.
_____________________________
Cynicism is an unpleasant way of saying the truth.
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RE: Does God love Satan? - 7/2/2008 8:46:23 AM
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Psalms274
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ta_mosquito
quote:
I can find no reference to Him hating Satan, but I did find in Isaiah 14 that He sounded saddened by Satan's decision to rebel.
See, and I don't hear that in the passage at all. I don't hear sadness but rather judgment. I'd venture to guess that we all hear what we want to hear in that passage - our preconceived notions. 
Actually I don't have any preconceived notions on this one ... I am going strictly on the word study of "hate" and "love" in the bible ... and asking is it in God's character to hate anything. I do not see any proof in the bible that He does ... in fact I find just the opposite. I think our sinful nature (I'm very much included) makes us more incline to believe that God hates Satan ... because that is our own reaction. But what I see is a very holy God who hates rebellion and sin, yet is merciful and forgiving, giving us do-overs much more than we deserve. And I said before, Satan was VERY close to God, He did not have his eyes veiled at all ... and because of that his sin of rebellion was unforgivable. I do not think hate was involved on God's part ... hating the one who betrays you is in our nature ... but it is not in God's nature from what I see in the bible.
There was an amazing testimony on Focus on the Family where a lady talk about being abducted by a serial rapist/killer (who had raped and killed a girl just 12 hours before abducting her. He was on the FBI's 10 most wanted list and alluded the FBI for 10 years ... she led him to Christ and he ended up waiting for the police to pick him up at a bus stop in Texas.
The man was evil personified, yet God saved him. He ended up leading the warden to Christ while he awaited his death sentence, and was killed for the crimes he committed ... so we see in this man an example that lines up with the word of God ... of someone who does very evil things turning their life over to Christ and being both forgiven and loved by God.
How many of us are capable of that kind of love? Even while this man is raping an killing, God pursued Him because He loved Him. God's ways are very different from ours ... if I were to have preconceived notions about this matter, I would agree with you ... but the evidence just isn't there.
quote:
That's what I and other have been trying to say.
I still think only a lunatic would believe we're supposed to love the being who's purpose is to make our lives a living hell.
I do not believe we are required to love Satan ... I am saying that though he has fallen into an unpardonable sin, God did not stop loving him when that rebellion was committed. The same way David did not stop loving Absalum when his son was trying to kill him to get the throne.
But as for our own reaction to Satan, the word says in psalms 139:20-21 "Do I not hate those who hate you, O LORD, and abhor those who rise up against you? I have nothing but hatred for them; I count them my enemies." I am pretty sure it's ok for you have have these feelings towards Satan ... I am just saying I do not see hatred of a person or being in the nature of God ... though there are definitely things He hates.
_____________________________
I pray that you, being rooted and established in love, may have power, together with all the saints, to grasp how wide and long and high and deep is the love of Christ.
< Linus w/ a friends baby!
http://piswa.blogspot.com/
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RE: Does God love Satan? - 7/2/2008 9:44:10 AM
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BibleL7
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And people wonder why I dislike verse numbers and separations yet prefer to quote the passage or refer to it using words in it. I was wondering if we could perhaps bring context into the picture of the scriptures telling us to love enemies. Jesus is clearly talking about human enemies throughout the passages and not Satan or spiritual enemies, PLEASE. In John let us also read previously that Jesus said unless one is born of water and of spirit , I know a lot of people like to think He is talking about baptism but He is not. In context He is clearly stating that unless one is born of water He is referring to natural birth Satan and his angels can not in any way be born of water as they were created of spirit. Also you are not even looking at God loved Satan "till iniquity was found in him" hello that surely sounds to me like God is saying the love for Satan has ceased.
Of course let us throw away all scriptures that tell us to hate all evil. And also all the Scriptures that tell us that God hates. And as for praying for Satan comon if God told the prophet to not pray for Israel for He would not here his prayers do you really think He would hear a prayer for Satan who can not be redeemed. Hello angels long to look into salvation it is not for them Scripture is very clear on that.
I can not believe some of the posts I have read here. Oh and no the word does not particularly say to hate the Satan but then it does say to resist the devil and he will flee. That pretty much tells me I am not to love Satan. Salvation is for HUMANS only Jesus became human so He could die for humans. What is so difficult to understand about this. I must agree that it is not specifically stated that God hates Satan but it does not say God loves Satan except where He said till iniquity was found in him.
Please people there is always context in scripture it was not written with verses in it and was not meant to be broke up to take a verse out of context to define doctrine. The verse numbers were put in simply to help find passages quickly.
And before you say that Jesus never hated anything read Rev. Chapters 2 and 3 and read what Jesus has to say about 7 churches if He hated deeds in His church what would ever make you think that He would love Satan, whom he told to get away when He was tempted. Are we leaving logic outside the door, or is it just Jesus we want to leave outside the door.
< Message edited by BibleL7 -- 7/2/2008 10:01:04 AM >
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RE: Does God love Satan? - 7/2/2008 9:44:58 AM
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ta_mosquito
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Psalms274 - that's a touching story, but that is STILL about a person. Every analogy, etc. breaks down because the analogies and examples are about people, no matter how evil or vile, for whom Christ came to die.
God did not and does not have any provision for saving Satan and the other rebellious angels (even if they'd never accept it). Based on that, it' | | |
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