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RE: James Dobson on Obama - 6/27/2008 1:08:44 PM
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hnt
Posts: 529
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Shrommer
I haven't been able to read the text of Dobson's talk, but I got to read Obama's speech tonight. From the news articles...
Dobson seems to complain that he is compared with Al Sharpton. Obama only compared them as being total opposites.
Dobson accused Obama of having distorted views on the Bible, yet Obama does not express his own views of the Bible when he talks about Leviticus and Deuteronomy and the Sermon on the Mount. Obama is talking about what people out there try to make the Bible out to say.
Dobson accuses Obama of trying to get Christians to shut up until every body can agree together on a given issue. In his speech, though, Obama wants Christians to speak out and try to connect with other people at the conscience level instead of at the appeal to authority level.
I think Dr. Dobson is getting a little less clear in his ability to follow other people's thoughts in a speech as he gets older. I don't know of many 72-year-olds who are good at processing new ideas in a fresh and open-minded way. It will be good if Obama and Dobson can have a relaxed conversation together to clear away the misunderstandings.
I agree Shrommer
_____________________________
h
Emotional abuse and Faith
Reaching for IT!!!!!!
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RE: James Dobson on Obama - 6/27/2008 1:41:09 PM
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saved9201
Posts: 711
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What I believe Obama was saying is that if we want a political solution to our problems, then we must play by the rules of politics. In the political arena of the United States of America, the interests of ALL people must be taken into consideration, and not just those of Christians. That’s the rules. Before someone brings this up, no, the unborn don’t have a vote. We may not like those rules, but those are the rules in our gubment. If we want to get something done in a particular arena, we have to play by the rules whether we like them or not, or get them changed or choose another arena to do our fighting. An arena with which we are more familiar and can pick our own rules. I’ll get back to that later. Nehemiah realized this when he went to a pagan king to seek authorization to go to Jerusalem to rebuild the walls. Martin Luther King had to play by the rules when he sought civil rights legislation. So, if we want something done, and politics is the only way to get it done, we need to play by the rules of politics.
Obama further went on to say that we don’t have to check our Christianity at the door before entering the political arena. "There is much validity to the concerns of many on the "religious right."............Sadly, on some occasions, some of their spokesmen present their views that are unnecessarily narrow and seemingly hostile to those outside the group. I emphasize the word "unnecessarily." Just as we speak differently to our families and to the public, conservative Christians need to appeal to the general moral conscience of most Americans. This does not mean compromising their principles, which the majority of Americans doubtless share. It means only to recognize that in public discourse one of the priorities is to persuade those who don't share your views, and not simply to speak to those with whom you have an affinity." Obama didn't say this, nor did a liberal. It was former Reagan Education Secretary and conservative commentator William Bennett.
Therefore, part of playing the political game is to persuade people. And to do this takes time, talent, and patience, not all of us have that. When Paul addressed the Greek scholars at Mars Hill in Acts 17:16-34, he addressed them with boldness, but with respect. It’s a common temptation for Christians to simply “pick sides” and treat those on the other side as the “enemy.” We, as Christians, must remember this as we engage the nonbeliever.
Paul draws on imagery with which his audience is familiar with and speaks to them in language they can relate to and understand. All truth is God’s truth; therefore wherever truth is found in a culture, its source is ultimately the God of the Bible. It is the challenge of the Christian – not the government - to demonstrate this to the nonbeliever.
It is worth noting that Paul did not chase after those who left, offering to tone down his rhetoric so that his message might be more palatable and gain a wider acceptance. Nor did he choose to get louder, brasher and more hostile toward them. The text indicates that as soon as he was done preaching, Paul left them. He had done his part; he had preached the Word. The audience’s response was left to themselves and the Holy Spirit. Hardened hearts will scoff, searching hearts will ponder, and believing hearts will be saved. We find later on in scripture that a few of those Greeks Paul addressed were indeed converted.
So, for example, for those who are pro-life, is your priority seeing that more people choose life, regardless of what the law of this country says, which requires a little persuasion, or is your priority simply getting Roe v. Wade overturned, which requires pretty much nothing on your part and people can still go to other countries where abortion is still legal? Or, are you just "picking sides". So far, how effective have you been in accomplishing your goal?
- Julius
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RE: James Dobson on Obama - 6/27/2008 1:43:48 PM
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tafkam
Posts: 2070
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As I have already said, the secret to ridding our country of abortion is not overturning Roe, it's about opening the eyes of the country as to what a horror abortion is.....
_____________________________
"The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.' - Ronald Reagan
Tafkam
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RE: James Dobson on Obama - 6/27/2008 1:48:59 PM
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rcjames
Posts: 5693
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From: Oklahoma
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tafkam
As I have already said, the secret to ridding our country of abortion is not overturning Roe, it's about opening the eyes of the country as to what a horror abortion is.....
Absolutely.
I challenge anyone to watch a video of a authentic partial birth abortion and then try to defend the atrocity on any basis.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: James Dobson on Obama - 6/27/2008 2:20:24 PM
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Leslie_JnJs_mom
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Obama did and that is what makes him so evil. He even argued that if the abortionist should mess up and the baby make it into this world alive that the infant should be killed. The man is evil.
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<------- Jessica and I had so much fun with grandma!
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RE: James Dobson on Obama - 6/27/2008 2:32:14 PM
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davemiller7
Posts: 1060
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Historical trends are one thing. But when one philosophy (liberalism/socialism/communism) which the Democrats have so eagerly embraced, has so co-opted the media (radio, TV, print), the schools and colleges, turning anything and everything that is Christian, moral, and traditional into something "bad", that's not mere historical trends. That's undermining our country and the principles upon which it was founded.
-Dave
quote:
ORIGINAL: cow451
quote:
ORIGINAL: davemiller7
Exactly!!! They have grabbed power and divided the country. That wasn't so hard to understand, was it?
-Dave
quote:
ORIGINAL: blessedinnyc
quote:
ORIGINAL: davemiller7
You don't think they already have grabbed power and divided the country? Don't be naiive.
-Dave
quote:
ORIGINAL: todd_t
Democrats will seize a big government majority. Plus, it will culturally divide this country more dramatically than in decades.
It takes two sides to have a divide.
You demonize the historical trends in politics. One party dominates for a time, the independents get fedup, switch to the other party for a few years, then the cycle goes full circle.
_____________________________
-Dave
The Prayer of Protection
The light of God surrounds me,
The love of God enfolds me,
The power of God protects me,
The presence of God watches over me.
Wherever I am, God is.
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RE: James Dobson on Obama - 6/27/2008 2:41:43 PM
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saved9201
Posts: 711
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quote:
Historical trends are one thing. But when one philosophy (liberalism/socialism/communism) which the Democrats have so eagerly embraced, has so co-opted the media (radio, TV, print), the schools and colleges, turning anything and everything that is Christian, moral, and traditional into something "bad", that's not mere historical trends. That's undermining our country and the principles upon which it was founded.
-Dave
I can make the same argument that the other philosophy (conservatism/facism/racism), which the Republicans have so eagerly embraced, has done a pretty good job of co-opting the media as well.
- Julius
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RE: James Dobson on Obama - 6/27/2008 2:54:32 PM
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cow451
Posts: 3972
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quote:
ORIGINAL: davemiller7
Historical trends are one thing.
And that thing is called a fact. All the rest is emotional argument. You're just the mirror image of the liberal democrats after W and the GOP won in 2000.
_____________________________
Wenn Sie so intelligent sind, warum Sie hier sind?
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RE: James Dobson on Obama - 6/27/2008 3:06:11 PM
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davemiller7
Posts: 1060
Joined: 3/5/2008
From: NC via NY
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Wait a minute. Both sides can't have co-opted the media. The conservatives have Rush, Sean, Mark Levin, Ann Coulter, Laura Ingraham and a few others. Do you really think that adds up to the sheer media blanketing power of ABC, CBS, NBC, CNN, MSNBC, The New York Times, Washington Post, LA Times, and many, many more? Not to mention the real powerhouse MTV! Even if I were to concede that Fox News was strictly a conservative mouthpiece (which it isn't) we can't match the amount of static put out by the leftwing driven media.
-DAve
quote:
ORIGINAL: saved9201
quote:
Historical trends are one thing. But when one philosophy (liberalism/socialism/communism) which the Democrats have so eagerly embraced, has so co-opted the media (radio, TV, print), the schools and colleges, turning anything and everything that is Christian, moral, and traditional into something "bad", that's not mere historical trends. That's undermining our country and the principles upon which it was founded.
-Dave
I can make the same argument that the other philosophy (conservatism/facism/racism), which the Republicans have so eagerly embraced, has done a pretty good job of co-opting the media as well.
- Julius
_____________________________
-Dave
The Prayer of Protection
The light of God surrounds me,
The love of God enfolds me,
The power of God protects me,
The presence of God watches over me.
Wherever I am, God is.
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RE: James Dobson on Obama - 6/27/2008 3:12:12 PM
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saved9201
Posts: 711
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tafkam
As I have already said, the secret to ridding our country of abortion is not overturning Roe, it's about opening the eyes of the country as to what a horror abortion is.....
So how do we do this?
- Julius
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RE: James Dobson on Obama - 6/27/2008 3:12:36 PM
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davemiller7
Posts: 1060
Joined: 3/5/2008
From: NC via NY
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I'm not arguing that trends don't exist. They do. Emotional argument? What's your (alleged) point? See my previous response, if that's what you're so feebly attempting to refer to.
-Dave
quote:
ORIGINAL: cow451
quote:
ORIGINAL: davemiller7
Historical trends are one thing.
And that thing is called a fact. All the rest is emotional argument. You're just the mirror image of the liberal democrats after W and the GOP won in 2000.
_____________________________
-Dave
The Prayer of Protection
The light of God surrounds me,
The love of God enfolds me,
The power of God protects me,
The presence of God watches over me.
Wherever I am, God is.
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RE: James Dobson on Obama - 6/27/2008 3:16:55 PM
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saved9201
Posts: 711
Joined: 4/15/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: davemiller7
Wait a minute. Both sides can't have co-opted the media. The conservatives have Rush, Sean, Mark Levin, Ann Coulter, Laura Ingraham and a few others. Do you really think that adds up to the sheer media blanketing power of ABC, CBS, NBC, CNN, MSNBC, The New York Times, Washington Post, LA Times, and many, many more? Not to mention the real powerhouse MTV! Even if I were to concede that Fox News was strictly a conservative mouthpiece (which it isn't) we can't match the amount of static put out by the leftwing driven media.
-DAve
Waaahhhh!! Waahhhhh!! 
- Julius
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RE: James Dobson on Obama - 6/27/2008 6:56:02 PM
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TaoPoohBear
Posts: 554
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: todd_t
I would argue that if Roe is overturned, you'll see these numbers (12 years out of date) go much higher.
Those numbers add up given the total murdered children divided by the days since Roe vs Wade, actually it’s more per year as the total numbers show…... What line of logic would make the case for the number to increase if were against the law?
48,589,993...
quote:
But then again, as these abortions would be performed underground, there would be no way to get an accurate count.
Now there is good reason for <cough> safe and legal murdering of unborn children.... 
48,589,993
quote:
I don't think you realize how many people in this country (typically, a 63% majority) support basic abortion rights, both Democrat and Republican alike. For example, Laura Bush and her daughters are pro-choice.
You think wrong, and I really don't care how many do, since that doesn't make it right... As for them being Democrats or Republicans I don't care there either... Regardless they support murder and they will be held accountable for it... Period...
quote:
Also, what does "bring them down" mean?
Kill them... What did you think it meant? Give them a pat on the back for a job well done?
48,589,993
John
Quite horrific, AND YET (getting back to Dr. Dobson) -
The Family Research Council stand on birth control -
quote:
FRC believes the context for the full expression of human sexuality is within the bonds of marriage between one man and one woman. Upholding this standard of sexual behavior would help to reverse many of the destructive aspects of the sexual revolution, including sexually transmitted disease rates of epidemic proportion, high out-of-wedlock birth rates, adultery, and homosexuality.
In accordance with this position, the best sexuality education embraces sexual abstinence outside of marriage. The abstinence-until-marriage approach promotes optimal physical and psycho-social outcomes for youth and young adults. FRC maintains that contraceptive-based or comprehensive sex education is destructive, providing mixed risk messaging and an overly narrow focus on physical health alone.
So -
NO to comprehensive sex education (that includes discussion of birth control, that may help reduce teen pregnancies).
and
ATTACK the use of contraceptives and those groups that freely give out contraceptives.
In my opinion, Dr. Dobson and his Family Research Council share responsibility for the tragedy of abortion in America.
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RE: America as a Theocracy - 6/27/2008 8:42:36 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5511
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quote:
ORIGINAL: csl7037
quote:
ORIGINAL: tafkam
The logic of the pro-death movement is an amazing thing....
I agree it takes a great deal of mental gymnastics to justify abortion - but the reality is that's the counter-argument that we have to contend with. Ranting and raving with emotional and moral arguments and wild-eyed fanaticism has gotten us where exactly? It's gotten us solidly in the fringe category and it's exactly WHY 60-something percent of Americans favor abortion to some extent...we've chased them with picket signs and pitchforks straight to the left.
You don't have to chase a swine to the mud they find it themselves...
John
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RE: America as a Theocracy - 6/27/2008 8:46:00 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5511
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quote:
ORIGINAL: GroupW
quote:
ORIGINAL: Groupw
Fine, but let's not adopt the language of violence in order to fight violence. That does noone any good.
quote:
Ok.... What should we call the cold blooded mass murder of unborn children for no just cause? What does God call it?
John
The reference was to a prior post that used violent language directed at an individual . Your post above regarding someone getting hit by a bus qualifies as well.
It reflects poorly on us, and I would like people to stop.
Do you post the same when people support abortion?
John
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RE: James Dobson on Obama - 6/27/2008 8:48:22 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5511
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quote:
ORIGINAL: blessedinnyc
Hmmm, if God is planning on killing these people, it doesn't look like he's in much of a hurry.
Well, truth be told they are literally the walking dead...…
quote:
I trust you're not calling for humans to help God speed things up, right?
Hmmm... If I saw a person beating a child to death in a crib tomorrow at the park should I stop them?
John
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RE: James Dobson on Obama - 6/27/2008 8:51:39 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5511
Joined: 4/15/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: saved9201
Obama further went on to say that we don’t have to check our Christianity at the door before entering the political arena.
Too funny...
John
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RE: America as a Theocracy - 6/27/2008 9:10:00 PM
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blessedinnyc
Posts: 1984
Joined: 10/12/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: csl7037
quote:
ORIGINAL: tafkam
The logic of the pro-death movement is an amazing thing....
I agree it takes a great deal of mental gymnastics to justify abortion - but the reality is that's the counter-argument that we have to contend with. Ranting and raving with emotional and moral arguments and wild-eyed fanaticism has gotten us where exactly? It's gotten us solidly in the fringe category and it's exactly WHY 60-something percent of Americans favor abortion to some extent...we've chased them with picket signs and pitchforks straight to the left.
You don't have to chase a swine to the mud they find it themselves...
John
So why are you so fixated on that swine rolling in the mud? If the swine rolling in the mud is causing problems for you, the only way to get him out of the mud probably involves, well, getting muddy.
In other words, the pro-Choice crowd is winning because they use secular arguments. In order to beat them, well, you have to offer secular arguments.
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RE: America as a Theocracy - 6/27/2008 9:19:29 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5511
Joined: 4/15/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: blessedinnyc
So why are you so fixated on that swine rolling in the mud?
48,000,000+... You can tack on another 3800 for today...
quote:
If the swine rolling in the mud is causing problems for you, the only way to get him out of the mud probably involves, well, getting muddy.
Not where I am from...
quote:
In other words, the pro-Choice crowd is winning because they use secular arguments. In order to beat them, well, you have to offer secular arguments.
If I used their argument I'd end up in prison... Man's wisdom is the reason you have abortion... I am not sure the same line of thinking will stop it...
like I said... No one had to drive the pigs to the mud... They went there and are more than happy to be there...
John
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RE: James Dobson on Obama - 6/27/2008 9:22:29 PM
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Leon_Figg3
Posts: 475
Joined: 4/24/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: saved9201
quote:
ORIGINAL: tafkam
As I have already said, the secret to ridding our country of abortion is not overturning Roe, it's about opening the eyes of the country as to what a horror abortion is.....
So how do we do this?
- Julius
I am not sure what tafkam's thinking is, but to me, those who are against abortion, are not going to get very far until abortion is seen and addressed as a symptom of deeper and larger moral issues, instead of THE moral issue.
The issues must be addressed on all levels: societal, generational, family relational, and individual.
_____________________________
To whom much is given, much is expected. Luke 12:48
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RE: America as a Theocracy - 6/27/2008 9:32:39 PM
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tracydolls
Posts: 1839
Joined: 3/30/2008
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Can we please have just 5 stop threads on abortion?
There's 2 for racism, so would 5 be enough?
Sheesh!!!!
That's part of the problem with the likes of James Dobson. He's part of this group of Christinas that have made abortion and gays their ONLY agenda.
Is it wrong? Yes.
But it's also the easiet to pick on.
Some people will go thru life never having an abortion or being gay and still Jesus will tell them, I never knew you.
BO is gonna appeal to alot of people just because they are tired of the likes of James Dobson.
Just that simple. The lessor of 2 evils.
_____________________________
Rev 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
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RE: America as a Theocracy - 6/27/2008 11:22:38 PM
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saved9201
Posts: 711
Joined: 4/15/2005
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quote:
Can we please have just 5 stop threads on abortion?
There's 2 for racism, so would 5 be enough?
Sheesh!!!!
Don't you know, Tracy? EVERY thread on Crosswalk is potentially an abortion thread. Some of those guys, I believe, think it's their Christian duty to hijack every thread so they can bring our focus back on what they feel is the ONLY issue we should EVER be concerned with.
- Julius
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RE: James Dobson on Obama - 6/27/2008 11:55:17 PM
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BlackCapnHarlock
Posts: 361
Joined: 8/20/2005
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Obama does not subscribe to Christianity, he subscribes to his own philosophy which contains really no portion of the Christian message as it's interpreted by any serious scholar, atheist, agnostic or Christians.
Obama reminds me of M | | |
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