1,000 year reign (Full Version)

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Giulia -> 1,000 year reign (6/25/2008 7:14:59 AM)

Revelation 20:7 "And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison"

This troubles me. Lucifer is always next to me even today I had someone with a Lucifer te-shirt on sitting next to me at work.

After the 1'000 yr reign Satan will be loosed again. So when we are all sitting pretty in the thou yr reign Satan is loosed. He will not have power over the saints nevertheless he is there.

Why? Someone to fight perhaps?[;)] Some conflict through which we can get resolution and victory? What do you reckon?

So we don't get complacent perhaps?



BerianAardvark -> RE: 1,000 year reign (6/25/2008 8:12:24 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Giulia

Revelation 20:7 "And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison"

This troubles me. Lucifer is always next to me even today I had someone with a Lucifer te-shirt on sitting next to me at work.

After the 1'000 yr reign Satan will be loosed again. So when we are all sitting pretty in the thou yr reign Satan is loosed. He will not have power over the saints nevertheless he is there.

Why? Someone to fight perhaps?[;)] Some conflict through which we can get resolution and victory? What do you reckon?


Even after a thousand years of a perfect society there will be those who feel oppressed and unjustly persecuted because they cannot do their thing their way. And that, after all is the way of sinners..."I'm going to live my life my way and who is God to tell me I can't."

When the thousand years are completed, Satan will be released from his prison, and will come out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together for the war; the number of them is like the sand of the seashore. (Revelation 20:7-8)


Satan will be released and some/many/most of the people will rise up following him and "demanding their rights". Thus proving for all to see that Satan truly was irredeemably evil, and certain people stiff necked, stubborn and more concerned with self than with righteousness. They will be offered one last chance to choose who they will follow, the Will of God's or the god of I will.

"But you said in your heart, 'I will ascend to heaven; I will raise my throne above the stars of God, And I will sit on the mount of assembly In the recesses of the north. 'I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will make myself like the Most High.' (Isaiah 14:13-14)

I have often suspected that Psalm 2 had end times prophetic implications:

Why are the nations in an uproar And the peoples devising a vain thing? The kings of the earth take their stand And the rulers take counsel together Against the LORD and against His Anointed, saying, "Let us tear their fetters apart And cast away their cords from us!" He who sits in the heavens laughs, The Lord scoffs at them. Then He will speak to them in His anger And terrify them in His fury, saying, "But as for Me, I have installed My King Upon Zion, My holy mountain." "I will surely tell of the decree of the LORD: He said to Me, 'You are My Son, Today I have begotten You. 'Ask of Me, and I will surely give the nations as Your inheritance, And the very ends of the earth as Your possession. 'You shall break them with a rod of iron, You shall shatter them like earthenware.'" Now therefore, O kings, show discernment; Take warning, O judges of the earth. Worship the LORD with reverence And rejoice with trembling. Do homage to the Son, that He not become angry, and you perish in the way, For His wrath may soon be kindled. How blessed are all who take refuge in Him! (Psalms 2:1-12)

That is my take, your millage may vary,
Tim



SpongeBlog -> RE: 1,000 year reign (6/25/2008 8:58:19 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Giulia

Revelation 20:7 "And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison"

This troubles me. Lucifer is always next to me even today I had someone with a Lucifer te-shirt on sitting next to me at work.

After the 1'000 yr reign Satan will be loosed again. So when we are all sitting pretty in the thou yr reign Satan is loosed. He will not have power over the saints nevertheless he is there.

Why? Someone to fight perhaps?[;)] Some conflict through which we can get resolution and victory? What do you reckon?

So we don't get complacent perhaps?

The only people who I can think of that can be tempted by satan after the Day of the Lord are those who did not live out enough years, or who did not have the mental capacity to be tested and tried in this life.

It's generally accepted that children who die young and the mentally handicapped are not condemned when they die. They have had no reasonable opportunity to accept or reject Christ. But at the end of the age to come (the Millenium) they will be tested when satan is loosed and will reveal whether or not they love righteousness. At that time they will be given the chance to choose between right and wrong. The chance they did not have in this age.

All of this is pure speculation on my part.



SpongeBlog -> RE: 1,000 year reign (6/25/2008 9:12:22 AM)

I've heard others suggest that natural Jews will enter the Millenium in their natural bodies and will be having children, who in turn need to be tested.

I don't buy that for a second because Paul said all *believing* people, both the living and dead will receive glorified bodies at the coming of Christ. And, besides that, there will be no marriage in the age to come.

*edit for clarity



psende -> RE: 1,000 year reign (6/25/2008 10:20:09 AM)

I think of it as a final display, before all creation, of God's absolute right to judge. A thousand perfect years, and still mankind rebels at the first opportunity.



DaveW -> RE: 1,000 year reign (6/25/2008 10:20:28 AM)

Sponge, that is all messed up.

The glorified bodies are for believers, living and resurrected. Nowhere does it say living nonbelievers receive them.

There will be more than Jews alive in the Millenium:

Zech 14.16 Then everyone who survives of all the nations that have come against Jerusalem shall go up year after year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the Feast of Booths.
17 And if any of the families of the earth do not go up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, there will be no rain on them.
18 And if the family of Egypt does not go up and present themselves, then on them there shall be no rain; there shall be the plague with which the LORD afflicts the nations that do not go up to keep the Feast of Booths.
19 This shall be the punishment to Egypt and the punishment to all the nations that do not go up to keep the Feast of Booths.

The "age to come" is AFTER the final judgement which is AFTER the millenial reign of Messiah and the subsequent loosing of ha-satan.



SpongeBlog -> RE: 1,000 year reign (6/25/2008 10:31:23 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaveW

Sponge, that is all messed up.

The glorified bodies are for believers, living and resurrected. Nowhere does it say living nonbelievers receive them.

There will be more than Jews alive in the Millenium:

Zech 14.16 Then everyone who survives of all the nations that have come against Jerusalem shall go up year after year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the Feast of Booths.
17 And if any of the families of the earth do not go up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, there will be no rain on them.
18 And if the family of Egypt does not go up and present themselves, then on them there shall be no rain; there shall be the plague with which the LORD afflicts the nations that do not go up to keep the Feast of Booths.
19 This shall be the punishment to Egypt and the punishment to all the nations that do not go up to keep the Feast of Booths.

The "age to come" is AFTER the final judgement which is AFTER the millenial reign of Messiah and the subsequent loosing of ha-satan.

I'm not suggesting for a nano-second that unbelievers receive glorified bodies. I am suggesting there will be those present who have not been determined to be either a believer or an unbeliever yet. It does not have anything to do with all of us who will have been tried and tested and found true in this age. If it did, who could possibly find comfort in the salvation and deliverance of God from sin we teach in our congregations today???? We would be the bearers of a very unsure gospel.

No matter what any of us think of the millenial period, the judgement at the end of that time is the final purging of God's kingdom for all of eternity.



DaveW -> RE: 1,000 year reign (6/25/2008 10:36:01 AM)

quote:

I am suggesting there will be those present who have not been determined to be either a believer or an unbeliever yet.
I see no scriptural evidence for such a creature. If you are not firmly a believer you are a lost unbeliever.



SpongeBlog -> RE: 1,000 year reign (6/25/2008 11:00:26 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaveW

quote:

I am suggesting there will be those present who have not been determined to be either a believer or an unbeliever yet.
I see no scriptural evidence for such a creature. If you are not firmly a believer you are a lost unbeliever.

In light of what you just said here, if one is 'firmly a believer' now, how can they be found later to not be a believer? That's why I suggest this judgement has nothing to do with us who have believed in this age. Who are these untested people who make it into the Millenial period of time, but who were not destroyed at the judgement at the coming of Christ? Even you must agree it can't be the present day Church.

And, by the way, before making a definitive defense for what the 'age to come' is, I'd have to do a little more study. But right now I think the Millenium is the 'age to come'. If I understand correctly, the eternal state is no age at all with no space or time to measure it by. That's just where I'm at right now in regard to that.



deborlie -> RE: 1,000 year reign (6/25/2008 10:33:58 PM)

This is my understanding.....................
Originally, God made a covenant with Israel that they would become Priests bringing Gentiles to their God. In fact, these Gentiles will beg the Jew to bring them to thier God. Israel was being groomed by God for this purpose, and it shows God was interested in the saving of all mankind, even down to the hated Gentile. This was supposed to happen when the Jewish nation (Israel) accepted Jesus as their Lord. and of course we know they didn't. Jesus was put to death, buried, and resurrected. The Jew, for the time being, any way, lost his chance. But, God never backs down on a covenant. So this again is reserved for the future.
In the meantime, Paul was sent to the Gentiles, and and so began age of Grace, up to now, any way. Satan is still with us. The world gets worse, and worse until the day of reckoning. The believers and the dead in Christ all will be caught up in the air, (this is the second resurrection) and with this force of good out of the way, Satan will show the world his colors. Before God's wrath begins.......A small reminant of Jews is carried away, and during this time they finally accept Jesus Christ as their Saviour/King. At the end of this time frame, Jesus Christ and his Saints (the church and all believers) return with him to set up the Kingdom. There will be other survivors besides the Jews, but few and far between. These will be the seed stock for the future. This Jewish reminant as the promised Priests will bring the Gentile reminant to their God. These will live and have children during the thousand year reign of Christ. Satan is bound for these thousand years. There will be peace in Jerusalam finally. The children will grow up in a peaceful clime, not knowing the like of what was before. At the end of this Thousand year reign. Satan is released again. Now, these children will be tested such as we are now. Thev've tasted what it can be like. Will it be enough to hold them? They will have their choice of whom they want to follow. A War like the war of Armagedon will again be fought. At it's end, (The third ressurection will happen) Jesus will then separate the "sheep from the goats", and give the final judgement. Satan will be cast into the deepest of the pit. And his followers follow into Hades according to their deeds. Hell (Hades) was never meant/nor made for human habitation.
This is about as brief as I can make it.



Giulia -> RE: 1,000 year reign (6/26/2008 7:02:10 AM)

Interesting theories, all of this is speculation, as someone said. I do know for sure of the new body, this is also supported in the bible. I am also sure we are stronger than Satan.

quote:

It's generally accepted that children who die young and the mentally handicapped are not condemned when they die.


This is not supported in the bible, interesting notion though. I tell my children that sadly those not in Christ don't get in to heaven. Kinda like the sins follow the forefathers, so also the blessings. The fatherless and those abandoned by their fathers are blessed because they will have more of a ready heart to accept the blessing of God as their Father.
If someone is handicapped it is up to their parents to bring them in under their covering (if they are saved).

This is scriptural, though this is not entirely true of today because we are in a new covenant now. Kinda like saying God will make you the head and not the tail. Old testament notion which people like to say with plenty of pride attached and fell like they are justified by the fruit. Plenty will get a shock when they get to heaven and they got no mansion and the old drunk down the road has. Now Jesus has come He has become the servant and in a sense made Himself the tail here on earth. People don't understand this.

Like you ask someone what they want from God and they will say "my bills paid" or "a nice car" or "woman/man" whatever, I hardly hear anyone want God and that is what He tells us to desire. everything else is coveting and many preachers encourage the congregation to covet these days. This is the influence of the devil.

Back to the end of the thou yr reign and Satan's rule. It has always amazed me and in a sense I always prepare for the fact Satan will be around for a while. I certainly respect Satan to some extent. Like I talk to him through people even though he has nothing over me I prepare for the fact he will be around. It is obvious he is under my feet at the same time. Hard to explain and I need to put the kids to bed, goodnight!



SpongeBlog -> RE: 1,000 year reign (6/26/2008 8:41:40 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: deborlie
...This Jewish reminant as the promised Priests will bring the Gentile reminant to their God. These will live and have children during the thousand year reign of Christ. Satan is bound for these thousand years. There will be peace in Jerusalam finally. The children will grow up in a peaceful clime, not knowing the like of what was before. At the end of this Thousand year reign. Satan is released again. Now, these children will be tested such as we are now. Thev've tasted what it can be like. Will it be enough to hold them? They will have their choice of whom they want to follow.

But how are children conceived in the Millenium if there is no marriage?

34Jesus said to them, "The sons of this age marry and are given in marriage,

35but those who are considered worthy to attain to that age and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage;

36for they cannot even die anymore, because they are like angels, and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection. (Luke 21:34-36)



4IMPersuaded -> RE: 1,000 year reign (6/26/2008 11:52:12 AM)

quote:

I am also sure we are stronger than Satan


Giulia-- I'm not sure you meant this literally. I just wanted to point out that even Michael the Archangel did not battle satan of his own might, but in the name of Jesus. I am not stronger than satan, but He who is in me is.



Giulia -> RE: 1,000 year reign (6/27/2008 5:55:31 AM)

quote:

Giulia-- I'm not sure you meant this literally. I just wanted to point out that even Michael the Archangel did not battle satan of his own might, but in the name of Jesus. I am not stronger than satan, but He who is in me is.


Yes, when Jesus and the Holy Spirit is in us we are stronger than satan because Jesus has already deafeted him and so when He is in us so have we.

Also when I said Jesus is the tail He is both the head and the tail but when He told us to wash feet He was showing us to be the tail. We are able to deafeat satan when we follow Jesus and He didn't come to be the head, in fact He said the first will be last and the last first and he who is greatest is the least. Hard to follow Jesus clearly and fully like this when there are so many TV evangelistsnd leaders a telling us God wants us to have all our carnal desires.

We are to die and when we are dead to self we are alive in Him, when we lose our life we will find it. This doesn't mean we ought to be the gretaest or richest or most famous.

In my old life I was always told to keep your friends close and your enemies closer. I still like to practice this because I like to know the steps of my enemy.

I also know that I haven't really got any friends because people always turn and when the going gets tough the tough get going, a cliche' but true.



DaveW -> RE: 1,000 year reign (6/27/2008 6:32:03 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SpongeBlog

But how are children conceived in the Millenium if there is no marriage?
How can eternally saved individuals revolt against the Lord at the end?

The only way to cover that is that the millenium has resurrected believers, saved believers and unsaved people all living together side by side. Since there are many that are not resurrected, they must marry and procreate to have anyone other than the resurrected believers still alive at the end of 1000 years. The unsaved revolt briefly before being sent to the lake of fire. Then the New Jerusalem (Rev 21-22) comes down and we start the age to come.



Kath -> RE: 1,000 year reign (6/27/2008 5:13:31 PM)

moving from general faith to prophecy/end times



Retrobyter -> RE: 1,000 year reign (6/28/2008 1:51:30 AM)

Shabbat shalom, DaveW!

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaveW

quote:

ORIGINAL: SpongeBlog

But how are children conceived in the Millenium if there is no marriage?


How can eternally saved individuals revolt against the Lord at the end?

The only way to cover that is that the millenium has resurrected believers, saved believers and unsaved people all living together side by side. Since there are many that are not resurrected, they must marry and procreate to have anyone other than the resurrected believers still alive at the end of 1000 years. The unsaved revolt briefly before being sent to the lake of fire. Then the New Jerusalem (Rev 21-22) comes down and we start the age to come.


This is the difference between the branch of theology called eschatology and the different philosophies we have developed and to which we adhere and what the Bible actually says!

Many of you are making some generalizations and assumptions that are really not founded in Scripture! (That's often not your fault, by the way. We are often the product of our teachers.) There are many ages to come.

The "next age" is AFTER the Satan-free age; the Satan-free age, the FIRST 1000 years of Yeshua`s reign, is the tail-end of THIS age! During the FIRST 1000 years of Yeshua`s reign, while haSatan is incarcerated, we have the fulfillment of the parables of Matthew 13 as well as the fulfillment of Psalm 2. (Way to go, deborlie and BerianAardvark!)

The parables of Matthew 13 are parables ABOUT THE KINGDOM! They are NOT about the "church!" Only the first of the parables occurs in our time. The others will be fulfilled when Yeshua` is reigning. Furthermore, a THOUSAND YEARS is a very LONG time! And, we are given the additional information in Dani'el 2:35 (and its interpretation in 2:44-45) that the "great mountain" that represents the kingdom that the God of heaven sets up starts out as merely a "stone cut out without hands" that grows to become a "great mountain, and filled the whole earth." Thus, there is a growth period!

When Yeshua` begins to reign, it will simply be over Isra'el with its surrounding national neighbors as tributaries. It will be a small kingdom initially. This is also what Yeshua`s parables about the mustard seed and about the leaven are all about! Notice the wording: "The kingdom of heaven (or from the sky) is like to a grain of mustard seed.... But when it is grown, it is the greatest among herbs, and becometh a tree, so that the birds of the air come and lodge in the branches thereof." Then, "The kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened." The mustard seed parable talks about the Messiah's Kingdom's SIZE, while the leaven parable talks about its INFLUENCE. (And the leaven is NOT a "type of sin" in this parable; it is the Kingdom of heaven or the Kingdom from the sky! I don't think for one moment that Yeshua` would call the "Kingdom of heaven" a "TYPE OF SIN!") In both of these parables, the objects are not given a comparison. We don't know who the man was or what the birds of the air represent; we don't know who the woman is or what the three measures of meal represent. They are not the importance in these parables! It's not the NOUNS but the VERBS that are important, not the THINGS (other than what is compared to the Kingdom) but the ACTIONS!

Therefore, Yeshua` is using these parables to tell us more information about the 1000-year period to come! The Kingdom will start out small but will grow as Yeshua` LITERALLY becomes the King of kings, a title by the way that was also given to Nebuchadnezzar to mean "world emperor," and the Kingdom grows until it fills the earth! Furthermore, its influence will start out rather small by comparison. It will NOT automatically be a place to which the Gentiles will seek.

BUT, as the Kingdom grows and reports about the Kingdom and its wise King become more widely known, THEN the Gentiles will flock to the Kingdom of Isra'el! Then, the prophecy that says,...

Zech. 8:23
23 Thus saith the LORD of hosts; In those days it shall come to pass, that ten men shall take hold out of all languages of the nations, even shall take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying, We will go with you: for we have heard that God is with you.
KJV

Furthermore, the parable about the good seed and the tares is NOT about this time in which we live; it, too, is about the Kingdom to come! This one IS explained in detail in Matt. 13:36-43. Here are the elements:

The man who sowed good seed = Son of man
The field = the world (Greek: cosmos, the social world)
The good seed = the children of the Kingdom
The tares = the children of the wicked one
The enemy = the devil
The harvest = "the end of the world" (literally, the "end of the age")
The reapers = the angels (Greek: aggeloi, messengers)

Thus, you can make DIRECT SUBSTITUTIONS into the parable and it will make complete sense!

Watch:

Matt 13:24-30
24 Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto the Son of man which sowed children of the kingdom in his world:
25 But while men slept, the devil came and sowed children of the wicked one among the children of the kingdom, and went his way.
26 But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the children of the wicked one also.
27 So the angels of the Son of man came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow children of the Kingdom in thy world? from whence then hath it children of the wicked one?
28 He said unto them, The devil hath done this. The angels said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?
29 But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the children of the wicked one, ye root up also the children of the Kingdom with them.
30 Let both grow together until the end of the age: and in the time of end of the age I will say to the angels, Gather ye together first the children of the wicked one, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the children of the Kingdom into my barn.
KJV

Then, add...

Matt 13:40-43
40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.
41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.
KJV

Now, consider how that meshes with I Cor. 15:19-28:

1 Cor. 15:19-28
19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.
20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith, all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
KJV

And also compare Revelation 20:

Rev 20:1-15
1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
KJV

And THEN follows Rev. 21 and 22 with the New Earth and its New Sky and the New Jerusalem descending to the New Earth--the FATHER'S KINGDOM!

Interesting, eh?

Oh, and don't make the mistake of applying the judgment of the "sheep" nations and the "goat" nations of Matthew 25:31-46 to this final judgment. This judgment of Matt. 25 is at the BEGINNING of the FIRST 1000 years of Yeshua`s reign. Furthermore, it is not an INDIVIDUAL judgment; it is a NATIONAL judgment! Those nations who showed kindness to God's people, ALL of God's people, both believing Jews and believing grafted-in Gentiles, will be allowed to survive on the earth. Those nations who showed no kindness to God's people have no place in the Messiah's Kingdom and "go away into everlasting punishment."

Oh, and one last point: Notice that I say "the FIRST 1000 years of Yeshua`s reign" instead of the "1000-year Kingdom." Luke 1:30-33 tells us,...

Luke 1:30-33
30 And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God.
31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.
32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.
KJV

The 1000 years ONLY refers to haSatan's incarceration and the last 1000 years of this second earth with its second sky, the first earth and its first sky being before the Flood, and the third earth and its third sky being after the Fire just before the Final Judgment. (II Peter 3:3-13)

2 Peter 3:3-13
3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
KJV

Enjoy!

Retrobyter



Giulia -> RE: 1,000 year reign (6/28/2008 5:43:25 AM)

Okay it speaks of the thousand yr reign after we have received our new glorified bodies. I think there is still something to learn from this about the heare and now.

The devil is always around seeking whom he can devour and he is also very present in the church as the bible even speaks of the tares and the wheat and to watch not to weed out the tares. Yet judgement begins in the house of God.

The house of God is messed up. Many use the OT when it suits them and many also use the Word of God for an occasion for the flesh.

There is much confusion because many teach people to stive for the abundance of the flesh and know nothing of the abundance of the Spirit. Or perhaps they know something of it but choose to ignore it because it is too hard and perhaps they would not get as many followers.

Jesus did not die so we could have abundance in the flesh. He died for something much greater than what the carnal eye sees and way more than the flesh could be comfortable with.

People only see the flesh so this becomes a dilema for preachers because they want confirmation and to be justified in a visible manner. This leads to a concotion of all sorts of unrighteous doctrine.

This also brings the devil in a lot closer because they fall for the same old trick of having all the kingdoms of the world and losing their souls. The devil is right there loosed among us and causing decay because no matter how many visible blessings one has, it does not equate to spiritual abundance.

Resisting the blessings of the world is like the opposition which makes us stronger in Him, yet this is not always visible.

Jesus did not want to be king in this world and fled when they tried making Him king. He did not want His ego to be pandered to as that is His very enemy.

In this day and age we are encouraged to take that position up but it forefits our spiritual blessing as it gives us a temporary one which manifests in positions of might and possessions.

Nothing temporary will bring us a lasting blessing. Only resistance to instant gratification and our own desires as we obey the high call which Jesus Christ has called us to.

When a pastor has no time for his own people that is when he should resign because God did not appoint other cousellors to do his job. He appointed him to those sheep. Yet it happens often that a pastor has no time for his sheep.

Since when does a pastor have no time for his sheep? If this was to happen in a farm the wolves would devour them all and it is not heard of because that is his job. Yet it happens all the time in this age.

BTW I recall posting a thread specifically about our new bodies and people tried to shoot me down like I was inventing a new doctrine.



imminence -> RE: 1,000 year reign (6/28/2008 4:15:12 PM)

Does the Bible teach the 1K yr. reign is here on Earth or in Heaven?



jeffweeder -> RE: 1,000 year reign (6/28/2008 9:51:14 PM)

quote:

Does the Bible teach the 1K yr. reign is here on Earth or in Heaven?


On earth.

rev 20
quote:

Blessed and holy is the one who has a part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with Him for a thousand years.


rev 5
quote:

"Worthy are You to take the book and to break its seals; for You were slain, and purchased for God with Your blood men from every tribe and tongue and people and nation.
10 "You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God; and they will reign upon the earth."


Doesnt this suggest that the first ressurection is when we are born again.?
All who believe are forgiven and escape the judgement---The second death cant hurt you--now.

The only way to proove it would be to show that the second coming of Christ is a post millenium event.

quote:

"Behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to render to every man according to what he has done.
13 "I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end."



quote:

Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat upon it, from whose presence earth and heaven fled away, and no place was found for them. 12 And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead which were in them; and they were judged, every one of them according to their deeds.
14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.
15 And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.


2pet 3
quote:

But by His word the present heavens and earth are being reserved for fire, kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.


8 But do not let this one fact escape your notice, beloved, that with the Lord one day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years like one day.
9 The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.


10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, in which the heavens will pass away with a roar and the elements will be destroyed with intense heat, and the earth and its works will be burned up.


11 Since all these things are to be destroyed in this way, what sort of people ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness,
12 looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be destroyed by burning, and the elements will melt with intense heat!

13 But according to His promise we are looking for new heavens and a new earth, in which righteousness dwells.




Peter makes no mention of a millenium, he sees the second coming (his promise)being associated with the new heaven and new earth--where righteousness dwells only.

This was our Lords promise

"Do not let your heart be troubled; believe in God, believe also in Me.
2 "In My Father's house are many dwelling places; if it were not so, I would have told you; for I go to prepare a place for you.
3 "If I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself, that where I am, there you may be also. 4 "And you know the way where I am going."



tony.nz -> RE: 1,000 year reign (6/28/2008 10:30:53 PM)

Retrobyter, I have some problems with some of the things you say!

Firstly

quote:

Therefore, Yeshua` is using these parables to tell us more information about the 1000-year period to come! The Kingdom will start out small but will grow as Yeshua` LITERALLY becomes the King of kings, a title by the way that was also given to Nebuchadnezzar to mean "world emperor," and the Kingdom grows until it fills the earth! Furthermore, its influence will start out rather small by comparison. It will NOT automatically be a place to which the Gentiles will seek.

BUT, as the Kingdom grows and reports about the Kingdom and its wise King become more widely known, THEN the Gentiles will flock to the Kingdom of Isra'el! Then, the prophecy that says,...


Personally, I believe that when Christ returns, the world will be in no doubt that He is King of Kings, it will be world news that makes all that is known of history pale in comparison! He will set up His kingdom, in Jerusalem, to rule over all the world! The parable you speak of relates to the church, which was planted as a small seed, and is now growing, and is preparing to fill the world on His return!

This prophecy speaks of that day!
Zecahriah 14:16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles. 17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain ; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles. 19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles. 20 In that day shall there be upon the bells of the horses, HOLINESS UNTO THE LORD; and the pots in the LORD' house shall be like the bowls before the altar.

Now, Zechariah speaks of a conflict, prior to the return of the Lord, which I believe we are leading up to in these days. This, I believe, is seperate to that conflict at the end of the millenial reign, which satan himself shall lead and result in his casting into the lake of fire, where the beast and the false prophet already reside.

So, the question remains, why would people join satan in this conflict, and what is it's purpose? I think it may be this, to expose the true identity of unbelief. People say that they do not believe because they cannot see God, and they cannot see evidence of His existence. Yet, when He is seen, and sits on His throne in Jerusalem, it's true identity (rebellion against the rule of God), will be seen, all the world will be without excuse. This identity goes right back to Eden - that mankind, knowing God, chooses his own path. Thus, when hades (those dwelling in death), and the sea (those still dwelling on the face of the earth), are emptied, and all stand before Christ, each and every one will be without excuse.



Giulia -> RE: 1,000 year reign (6/29/2008 5:23:13 AM)

I was not really intending to invite a discussion on escathology as I don't understand it and don't have a view about it, neither do I find it a fruitful discussion. Whatever God wills that I shall welcome. Rather, seeing that when we are born again we receive new bodies, as without a new body we cannot take part of the kingdom and that is what the new birth brings. As we go beyond the cross and into the sharing of the resurrection, and also knowing that to God a 1,000 yrs is as one day; living in this as a reality of the now could also mean that satan is loosed among us now. Living a day or a 1,000 yrs in the power of the resurrection and then having satan loosed. Anyone follow?

The new body is a direct result of the new birth when we share in Jesus' death and then are raised in His life. It is this body that is shaped by God's Holy flame in the likeness of Jesus' resurrected body (of which He is the first fruit) which purifies. Without which no one will taste heaven. A body we receive by faith but which is as real as this mortal body we wear.

The thousand yr reign could be the one day reigning with the Lord over all the Spirits as we are in Him and Him in us. Sharing this in the form of servitude as Christ intended. No wonder it is so hard to find humility in the church. It's a battle to be humble when you are lifted to reign with Him, however it is imperative in order to remain on the narrow way. Satan is right there.



cajunhillbilly -> RE: 1,000 year reign (6/29/2008 7:44:17 AM)

Of course, if one is an amillenialist, the question is moot.



Giulia -> RE: 1,000 year reign (6/30/2008 3:54:54 AM)

quote:

Of course, if one is an amillenialist, the question is moot.


Hey? Interpretation please? Never heard the term "amillenialist".



BerianAardvark -> RE: 1,000 year reign (6/30/2008 7:22:24 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Giulia

quote:

Of course, if one is an amillenialist, the question is moot.


Hey? Interpretation please? Never heard the term "amillenialist".


Amillennialism (Latin: a- "not" + mille "thousand" + annum "year") is a view in Christian eschatology named for its denial of a future, thousand-year, physical reign of Jesus Christ on the earth, as espoused in the premillennial and some postmillennial views of the Book of Revelation, chapter 20. By contrast, the amillennial view holds that the number of years in Revelation 20 is a symbolic number, not a literal description; that the millennium has already begun and is identical with the church age (or more rarely, that it ended with the destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70[citation needed]); and that while Christ's reign is spiritual in nature during the millennium, at the end of the church age, Christ will return in final judgment and establish permanent physical reign. (From Wikipedia)


Tim



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