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Concerto -> Repentance... (6/25/2008 9:24:04 PM)

How do you define repentance? I have seen endless definitions. If I pull them altogether, I feel that the following may be said:

Repentance is a drastic change of mind toward God and the things of God, and regarding sin. This change of mind brings about changes in attitude and action. Mind/heart and action.

For example, if I know someone who is an alcoholic, and I say to that person that they need to repent, I am saying much much more than stop drinking.

So repentance=turning from sin and altering one's attitude about God and sin..

Appreciate your comments.

C



bob97 -> RE: Repentance... (6/25/2008 11:43:42 PM)

quote:

Repentance: Being sorry for past sins against God or transgressions against other humans. It implies a sincere desire to change one's behavior in the future.


Repenting does not enable us to necessarily turn away from sin, it is being deeply ashamed of our actions. God is the one who will enable us to turn away from those things which are sin.

Bob



tracydolls -> RE: Repentance... (6/26/2008 1:10:57 AM)

quote:

Repenting does not enable us to necessarily turn away from sin, it is being deeply ashamed of our actions. God is the one who will enable us to turn away from those things which are sin.

Bob


I agree, Bob.

Somedays it seems I keep repeating the same sins. I used to get so discouraged when I repeated a sin, but then as you mature you find out that G-d has to do it. Left up to me, I would do it again, everyday.

I had to learn that REPEATING and REPENTING are 2 different things entirely.

Did I do that? yes

Did I want to? NO.



GrahamCracker -> RE: Repentance... (6/26/2008 6:58:35 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Concerto

How do you define repentance? I have seen endless definitions. If I pull them altogether, I feel that the following may be said:

Repentance is a drastic change of mind toward God and the things of God, and regarding sin. This change of mind brings about changes in attitude and action. Mind/heart and action.

For example, if I know someone who is an alcoholic, and I say to that person that they need to repent, I am saying much much more than stop drinking.

So repentance=turning from sin and altering one's attitude about God and sin..

Appreciate your comments.

C


From my reading in the subject, the term from Greek meant a "change of mind." Greeks themselves used the term "metanoia" to apply to a change of mind from good to bad--sometimes. So it did not necessary mean a reform of one's mind regarding sin.

However, when the NT biblical writers want to express the concept of turning from sin, they chose the Greek word we translate as repent/repentance. But in Hebrews 12:17, it does not refer to sin.

Commonly, many NT writers use it with reference to the change of mind concerning sin, Christ, God, and self, along with the expectation of a change of behavior.



timf -> RE: Repentance... (6/26/2008 7:51:19 AM)

So repentance=turning from sin and altering one's attitude about God and sin..

Part of the problem of understanding repentance might come from considering it as a "stand alone" function. This often leads us to think that it is a unique act that we choose to preform and produces a specific result (such as salvation).

If repentance is part of a larger change and more an effect of a change wrought in us by the Holy Spirit, the telling someone they must repent, might be similar to telling someone that they must be changed by the Holy Spirit.

We might ask, without the work of the Holy Spirit, would we even be able to recognize sin as sin, and how would we be able to choose to turn from it.

A case could be made that Christians who cling to the flesh and the world resist the Holy Spirit's work in us and should choose to "repent" to allow that work to continue.

The volitional portion of repentance may only apply after salvation.



URForgiven -> RE: Repentance... (6/26/2008 8:31:01 AM)

Christian repentance is turning away from independence and self-sufficiency and turning to dependence upon Christ and His sufficiency.

Any area of your life, in which you have not learned to be dependent, is an area of your life in which you have not as yet repented. The measure of your repentance will be the measure of your dependence upon Christ.

Peace



GrahamCracker -> RE: Repentance... (6/26/2008 11:42:02 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: timf

Part of the problem of understanding repentance might come from considering it as a "stand alone" function. This often leads us to think that it is a unique act that we choose to preform and produces a specific result (such as salvation). ....A case could be made that Christians who cling to the flesh and the world resist the Holy Spirit's work in us and should choose to "repent" to allow that work to continue.


I agree that in one sense its meaning is relative. We have to interpret its relative meaning in its context. Sometimes, for example, Christians are told to repent. It probably could not refer to our salvation because, by definition, Christians are already saved.

quote:

The volitional portion of repentance may only apply after salvation.

One's view on that would depend upon whether or not one is a Calvinist. Obviously, that's a discussion for another thread.



mvic -> RE: Repentance... (6/26/2008 4:48:19 PM)

Let's see if I have understood what is being said here.

Repentance is accepting our actions and being ashamed (sorry) for them. However, turning away from our actions (sin) is something that God does in us. It isn't something that we personally do.

Have I got it right?

If so, then someone who sins again and again can claim that whilst he has recognised his sins and is ashamed of them somehow God is not doing His part of the bargain and keeping him away from repetition.

Something wrong with this logic I think.



bob97 -> RE: Repentance... (6/26/2008 7:54:07 PM)

mvic...when you are saved, does God give you a new spirit? Does he renew your mind?

Bob



mvic -> RE: Repentance... (6/26/2008 7:59:24 PM)

Hi Bob,

Yes - God gives a new spirit and He renews one's mind.

But, does this mean that anyone who is saved is incapable of committing sin ever again?

I am a Christian ... and a great sinner too.

Am I therefore not saved?



bob97 -> RE: Repentance... (6/26/2008 9:08:36 PM)

Oh yes mvic...I completely agree with you, we will be sinners in this life, less as we mature but never perfect until we shed the flesh of this body. God begin a new works in us but IMO it will not be complete until we are reborn in a new glorified body.

Bob



Concerto -> RE: Repentance... (6/26/2008 9:09:48 PM)

I guess my goal was to communicate that repentance is a term that is multi-faceted. We cannot simply say repentance is the act of stopping some sinful habit.

I'm trying to think of a good description....

Mark 6:12 - "So they went out and preached that people should repent." So, when they preached that people should repent, what, in essence, were they telling the people to do? To me (correct me if I am wrong), they were saying that the people needed to wake up, recognize the Truth, and consequently accept the Truth which would translate into a changed behavior (turning from a sin filled life).

What do you think?

C



loveineffable -> RE: Repentance... (6/27/2008 10:30:51 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Concerto

I guess my goal was to communicate that repentance is a term that is multi-faceted. We cannot simply say repentance is the act of stopping some sinful habit.

I'm trying to think of a good description....

Mark 6:12 - "So they went out and preached that people should repent." So, when they preached that people should repent, what, in essence, were they telling the people to do?

To me (correct me if I am wrong), they were saying that the people needed to wake up, recognize the Truth, and consequently accept the Truth which would translate into a changed behavior (turning from a sin filled life).



TO ME, it is, means change ones' mind from not believing that we have a God, the creator that cares for us. once we see this, what great length The creator of all, went , did for us.
Then my only response was, is thank you, and now teach me how to love as you, (the creator of all) Jesus's Father. For it is the Grace of God that teaches man to say no to unrighteousness, to the point that grace is sufficient for you. between you and Him. The creator of all. So repentance to me is turning one's life over to the master, known in the trinity.


Focusing on sin, as in got to quit, only fuels the fire to continue there in. trust in what has been done, learning at the masters feet, means one has started the new life, no longer trying to stop sin, because they are too focused on God himself, and sin thus continuously goes bye-bye. As one is taught by the holy Spirit of God the Father.
When you sin (error), (do not trust, do not have faith) , you. (I) needed to be humbled again. as Paul said in 2 corinhtians. He prayed three times for this problem, (whatever that exactly was no one knows for sure) to go away, and God replied his grace was, is sufficient for him. Then Paul said that if anyone wants to glory he has more right to glory. Yet he counted all his learned self righteousness dung. His repentance was changing his mind to put his trust into Christ, who transalted him to his Father through the Holy Ghost. therefore the true love (mercy) from God came through Paul, by God doing the work through him. Paul was just a vessel, held alive by God. This is what we come to learn, through repentance (changing one's mind from unbelief to belief)
ineffavle love



GrahamCracker -> RE: Repentance... (6/27/2008 12:22:09 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mvic

Let's see if I have understood what is being said here.

Repentance is accepting our actions and being ashamed (sorry) for them. However, turning away from our actions (sin) is something that God does in us. It isn't something that we personally do.

Have I got it right?


It's not an either/or thing, IMHO. We repent and we undertake to act on our repentance. For example, some Jews came to John the Baptist for baptism. He told them "Bring forth fruits appropriate for repentance." IOW, the responsibility for acting on one's repentance did not lie with God. Obviously, being sinners we need God's help. But there's no point in commanding us to do something that God is responsible for.

quote:

If so, then someone who sins again and again can claim that whilst he has recognised his sins and is ashamed of them somehow God is not doing His part of the bargain and keeping him away from repetition.

Something wrong with this logic I think.


I agree.



GrahamCracker -> RE: Repentance... (6/27/2008 12:24:32 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Concerto

I guess my goal was to communicate that repentance is a term that is multi-faceted. We cannot simply say repentance is the act of stopping some sinful habit.

I'm trying to think of a good description....

.....What do you think?

C


I don't think that repentance should be defined in terms of the action itself or the action alone. Naturally, we like to think of it that way. But I don't believe it is entirely accurate.



mvic -> RE: Repentance... (6/27/2008 12:51:23 PM)

Thanx Bob,

We seem to agree. We are and continue to be sinners. We repent of course, but our inherent weakness gets the better of us.

As GrahamCracker put it: "the responsibility for acting on one's repentance did (does) not lie with God". It is our responsibility to first accept out sin, to repent, and then to do something about it - i.e. not sin again.

There are quite a few on this Forum who give the impression that the responsibility for "believing" and for "salvation" rests with God and we should do nothing about it but accept gratefully His gifts.



bob97 -> RE: Repentance... (6/27/2008 1:24:42 PM)

quote:

There are quite a few on this Forum who give the impression that the responsibility for "believing" and for "salvation" rests with God and we should do nothing about it but accept gratefully His gifts.


Well we do part company a little on this point. It would be my tendency to believe that we are all veiled from the truth from birth and it is God who removes that veil, allowing us to be able to believe once we have heard the gospel of Christ.

It is our responsibly to accept but until God removes the veil we can’t.

I don’t get to hung up on the issue because it is still our responsibly to share the gospel and when I see two people on the street, one being able to believe and the other not, I only see two people who need to hear the word. [:)]

Bob



mvic -> RE: Repentance... (6/27/2008 2:12:12 PM)

Hi Bob,

I think we agree once again ... of course, God gives us the opportunity to believe in Him, He invites us to love Him and follow His word - He removes the veil, as you put it. But then .. and this is important in my belief ... the next step is ours. Once we are introduced to God as it were, it is up to us to accept Him - this is our first step into Faith.

However, in another thread, there are genuine Christians who believe that it is by the grace of God that they have Faith. I have debated this with them and the discussion just petered out. They believe that God initiated Faith in them. I couldn't see/undertsand that.

As you say: it is OUR responsibility to accept.



tracydolls -> RE: Repentance... (6/27/2008 7:38:55 PM)

I would like to understand.

If say today you give your life to the Lord, you REPENT of your sins, ask God's forgiveness. Is that it, you never committ that sin again?

Ex. After today I still find myself lying. What should I do then because I repented of that sin and want to change it but......



loveineffable -> RE: Repentance... (6/28/2008 11:05:15 AM)

quote:

Repenting does not enable us to necessarily turn away from sin, it is being deeply ashamed of our actions. God is the one who will enable us to turn away from those things which are sin.

Bob

I agree, Bob.

Somedays it seems I keep repeating the same sins. I used to get so discouraged when I repeated a sin, but then as you mature you find out that G-d has to do it. Left up to me, I would do it again, everyday.

I had to learn that REPEATING and REPENTING are 2 different things entirely.

Did I do that? yes

Did I want to? NO.

_____________________________

1Jn 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.





quote:

ORIGINAL: tracydolls

I would like to understand.

If say today you give your life to the Lord, you REPENT of your sins, ask God's forgiveness. Is that it, you never committ that sin again?

Ex. After today I still find myself lying. What should I do then because I repented of that sin and want to change it but......
[/quote



Tracy Dolls, The Lord is sovereign, he does what he says. He said if you believe you shall be saved. that is what he said.
man convulutes things real well. It is too easy, so man has to add things, disect thngs, and make a mess of things. To the point of confusion as you are having.
GOD, just plain loves you Tracy Dolls. Yes you, and you and them, and those.
So in response to receiving this unconditional love, stop lying, stop anger, stop, stop, stop.
Again in response stop.
Okay this is where you are at and find you can not stop. You have repented so many times that God should be taking pepto-bismal on you by now. Been there done that.

Have you thanked God for taking this sin away back at the cross, which is the only place God placed sin on his son, in order to give you his Son's life from your belief. unto his Righteousness not your own that you keep trying to produce.
Have you ever thought of, maybe because you are trying so hard to stop that you can not. Because if you did stop, then you would be proud of yourself, and would be creating your own righteousness.

I think it good you want to stop, any and all sin. What did God tell Paul about that in 2 Corithians I think 12 He prayed 3 times for this to go away. (I do not think, Lying was the problem, yet there was a problem)
God said his grace was sufficient for him. Paul turned and explained to start glorying in iniquities.
Okay Tracy, start glorying in your's as well, and the lying part as well. ( For God is not taking pepto-bismal)
Tell god thank you that you need him. To take over and teach you how to trust him to stop you (in agreement) from lying.
You see repentance started when you changed your mind from unbelief to belief. Then you knew you were a sinner that day and confessed. then you wanted it all to stop, and so far it has not.
It is very upsetting, until Tracy you hear God say his grace is sufficient for you. Then you are free, free to do what is right, forgetting about what is wrong, you become too busy doing what is right, and you do not even know it, for it is no longer you doing it, but God through you, no proudness or boastfullness here.

So bottom line you changed your mind unto belief, now change your mind unto trusting the living god to teach you, w/o self in the way.
inefable love



Concerto -> RE: Repentance... (6/28/2008 1:25:11 PM)

Permit me to rephrase my question...

"So they went out and preached that people should repent." (Mark 6:12)

I would like you to re-state the above verse. But this time, use another word or words to describe "repent."

So, they went out and preached that people should ____________.

a. stop sinning?
b. change their minds about God and sin

etc.

Thanks..
C



bob97 -> RE: Repentance... (6/28/2008 2:10:26 PM)

Have a guilty conscience! [:)]

Bob



rcjames -> RE: Repentance... (6/28/2008 2:23:50 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: bob97

Have a guilty conscience! [:)]

Bob


NO. Now I saw the smiley, but respentance dose not mean "Godly sorrow" it means a change of mind and therefore actions.

Drunks have Godly sorrow every morning while puking in the commode and saying they will never drink again; has nothing to do with repentance

Thsnks
RC



mvic -> RE: Repentance... (6/28/2008 2:54:36 PM)

"So, they went out and preached that people should not sin again."

Jesus said: I do not condemn you either. Go, but do not sin again. John 8:11.

That's what repentance is: to accept one's sins, to regret them, and to try one's best not to repeat them.



bob97 -> RE: Repentance... (6/28/2008 8:43:14 PM)

It was a little bit of a joke RC but here are some verses from the NLT which would make it very clear that a clear conscience is very much a part of repentance. I just happened to do a word search here and there are many more in all versions.

Act 23:1 Paul looked directly1 at the council2 and said, "Brothers, I have lived my life with a clear conscience3 before God to this day."

Rom 2:15 They demonstrate that God's law is written in their hearts, for their own conscience and thoughts either accuse them or tell them they are doing right.


2Co 1:12 We can say with confidence and a clear conscience that we have lived with a God-given holiness and sincerity in all our dealings. We have depended on God's grace, not on our own human wisdom. That is how we have conducted ourselves before the world, and especially toward you.

1Ti 1:5 The purpose of my instruction is that all believers would be filled with love that comes from a pure heart, a clear conscience, and genuine faith.


Bob



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