RE: Is it hypocritical to call yourself christian and be anti-catholic
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RE: Is it hypocritical to call yourself christian and b... - 7/2/2008 3:04:28 PM
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loco79
Posts: 90
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quote:
ORIGINAL: daisies4u
If he believes that Catholics are Christian, then what is his reasoning for being upset?? Do you know?
That is the million dollar question
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RE: Is it hypocritical to call yourself christian and b... - 7/2/2008 3:04:45 PM
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WhiteRoseBlessings
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quote:
ORIGINAL: loco79
I really didnt want to go down the route of what each individual church believes and how one is more correct than the other. In my opening of the post I did not talk bad about the the theology of any individual church or its doctrine. I can go down this road if you want, but have done it too many times. Some of you dont agree with the Catholic church, fine I was trying to convert anybody. I can go verse for verse on whatever you want to talk about as far as Catholicism is concerned. And I can do the same thing for Protestant beliefs, and yet this was not my intent. My main question at the begining was, if we are all christian, and all claim the same authority, and all use the same scripture to prove our authority, then in reality how can one be right or wrong. And I know some people will argue by who is more biblical, but that is a circular arguement, I can prove by verses that the Catholic church is just as biblical as any church. I can use explicit and implicit meanings just like the rest of you. If we are one in faith in Jesus, then why such antimocity towards a fellow brother. I have none for you. If anything I would love to see Christians united under one banner and set an example for the world to follow. And no matter how many verses we give it all comes down to authority to interpret the verses. If one verse has two opposing meaning then how should we come to a conclusion, since we are both using the bible, then how can you prove your point and disprove mine if you and I have the same authority. And this is exaclty why Jesus instituted a church and gave it the power to bind and loose sins (continue reading Mt 18:18), the church can baptise, the church is the pillar of truth. The church is the body of christ just as a wife is the body of the husband. Without the body there head is useless and vice versa.
So if any one who wants to go verse for verse on beliefs can objectively prove they have more authority than any other chrisitan faith, without going into the circular agrument of who follows the scripture, please let me know and I will more than gladly go tit for tat with you
Excellent post.
quote:
ORIGINAL: shadowspring
Jesus said that by this will all men know that we are disciples, when we love one another.
I am only the parent of a teen, but I will speak of what I know. Disappointment, when it appears a child is rejecting what the parent holds precious, can be devastating. Hopefully your in-laws are taking their disappointment to the Lord and seeking His direction. Hopefully that's why they postponed their visit, to get a grip on their emotions.
Emotions come and go. We don't usually will them up, they just are. Being disappointed with their daughter is not hypocritical. Having strong emotions about it is not hypocritical. It's what action they decide to take about it when they have cooled off that will matter.
Cutting off fellowship with her would be hypocritical. It is not an issue to disown anyone over. I'm not sure there is such a reason to disown your own child, frankly. There is surely a time to withdraw financial support, but not cut your children from your heart.
However the news seems to have come as a great shock to them, so give them time and pray for them while you wait. Hopefully they can have a reasonable conversation with their daughter and come to the place of love and acceptance again. 
And yet another excellent post.
_____________________________
Hey there! This is Sharon-Marie, and you have reached my signature. I may not be here for a while; but if you'd like, please leave a message over in that ramblin’ thread.
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RE: Is it hypocritical to call yourself christian and b... - 7/2/2008 3:23:53 PM
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jaimestarcross
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According to his own logic, him being angry that his daughter accepted Catholicism and joined the same church that you attend doesn't make sense.... ( based on him believing Catholics are Christians.) He shouldn't be angry about that ~ however his actions are in stark contrast to what he stated about Catholics being Christians.
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RE: Is it hypocritical to call yourself christian and b... - 7/2/2008 3:45:12 PM
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Sideways
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Oh, I can understand that the FIL is upset. A lot of Protestants, while technically agreeing that other denominations are Christian, still don't see them as "quite as Christian" as theirs is. My parents were even a little disturbed at me joining a Lutheran church because of infant baptism and beliefs about communion.
It's like while it's okay for a stranger to be a different denomination, it's much more personal and cuts much more deeply for our own kin to pick something different. In my personal experience, the Baptists can be pretty bad at this. Some Baptists require you to be baptized in their denomination, or you aren't baptized at all.
My husband has been Lutheran his whole life, and while he was a youth, there was a local Baptist group that was actively seeking to convert the Lutheran youth, because Lutherans don't have "the whole truth" like Baptists do.
And with a lot of blatant lies being spread by Protestants about Catholics (like that they don't believe that Jesus is the Sod of God), I can see the FIL being upset.
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RE: Is it hypocritical to call yourself christian and b... - 7/2/2008 6:43:33 PM
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Kat_D
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Sideways
Oh, I can understand that the FIL is upset. A lot of Protestants, while technically agreeing that other denominations are Christian, still don't see them as "quite as Christian" as theirs is. My parents were even a little disturbed at me joining a Lutheran church because of infant baptism and beliefs about communion.
It's like while it's okay for a stranger to be a different denomination, it's much more personal and cuts much more deeply for our own kin to pick something different. In my personal experience, the Baptists can be pretty bad at this. Some Baptists require you to be baptized in their denomination, or you aren't baptized at all.
My husband has been Lutheran his whole life, and while he was a youth, there was a local Baptist group that was actively seeking to convert the Lutheran youth, because Lutherans don't have "the whole truth" like Baptists do.
And with a lot of blatant lies being spread by Protestants about Catholics (like that they don't believe that Jesus is the Sod of God), I can see the FIL being upset.
As I said in my previous post, I was a full-tilt Catholic and was not born again, and that is why I might be upset because my daughter chose to convert, not for any of the reasons you gave. Again, there are some Catholics who are born again and there are many who are not and that may be why the parents in question are concerned.
_____________________________
~Kat
"...And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes...no more death, sorrow, nor crying."
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RE: Is it hypocritical to call yourself christian and b... - 7/2/2008 7:34:56 PM
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Sideways
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I know a few things about Catholicism, too, as approximately half my family is Catholic. There are plenty of areas where I disagree doctrinally, but that doesn't stop us from being a family.
And Kat, once your daughter is married, she will be a part of her own family. You might be upset at her conversion, but I think that if you didn't show the proper respect and boundaries for her new family, you'd quickly find yourself shut out of your daughter's life and the life of your grandchildren.
It really astonishes me how much power people think they ought to have over their adult children, but that's probably off topic.
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RE: Is it hypocritical to call yourself christian and b... - 7/2/2008 8:24:15 PM
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Sideways
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I'm sorry for your pain, Kat; I didn't know about your adult daughter. I was neither trying to drag you down nor uplift you. I simply spoke the truth as I see it. Are you still in contact with your daughter? Certainly I'm sure you pray for her every day.
I still hold that the OP needs to set boundaries with his FIL; either to respect his daughter's choice, or stay out of their lives. The core family must be protected.
My parents once hinted at their disapproval at something my dH did (that was not religion related), and I very quickly informed them that there was an order to my universe: 1.) God 2.) My husband and any future children 3.) Them
Violate that, and they would pay the price, not me.
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RE: Is it hypocritical to call yourself christian and b... - 7/2/2008 8:53:27 PM
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upNORTder
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quote:
The Catholic bible was the first christian bible, so in essesence all adopts portion of the Catholics and not vice versa.
The first Christian bible was written in Greek and Hebrew, not Latin.
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RE: Is it hypocritical to call yourself christian and b... - 7/3/2008 2:43:50 AM
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Dakotasunbeam
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Loco79,
I don't think your fil is being entirely hipocritical. I think his concern is valid. Here's my point, please do not be offended by it. But let's suppose you live back in Biblical days near twin cities called Sodom and Gomorrah. Every now and again, Lot comes up to see you and he's a great godly man and a great friend. But one day your son decides he'd like to go move into the flat across the street from Lot. You'd be mortified. The point is, even though there are a few godly people in Sodom (Lot and his family as it turns out), the basic tone of the city is debauchery and hedonism, you wouldn't want your son to go live there. The chances of his corruption in that city is far greater than him changing the city--or in this instance even getting out alive.
Catholicism is steeped in so many rituals, errant doctrines, and some just plain blasphemy that finding "Jesus Christ" in all of that is very slim. But, thank God, some people do. That is no reason to STAY in Catholicism--just as there is no reason to STAY in Soddom/Gomorrah. Sure there may be a few good people there (good doctrinal points), but the basic tone and tenet of untruth outweighs the good.
As Christians we are to trim our lives of leaven. Anything that is more than the Gospel should be purged. Any religion that tells me to pray to Mary the morther of Jesus becomes suspect. It's like taking a step AWAY from the gospel and not toward it. The further you get away from "denominations" and the closer you get to following the Bible the BETTER. Catholicism is repleat with so much additional stuff, it takes you further away from the pure unadulterated word of God than is necessary. ANYTHING that does this should be cast away.
Your wife has made a step toward the complicated and away from the simple. Jesus Christ says the Gospel is simple enought that a child will not err. But Catholicism involves too much more than what the Bible requires. In fact, anything more than what the Bible requires should be looked at with scepticism. There are DEFINATE things within Catholic practise that are WARNED AGAINST in the BIBLE. This man would not be a father worth his salt if he was not concerned that his daughter was drifting toward a religion that includes a NUMBER of rituals and beliefs that were diametrically opposed to the Word of God.
From your own words in your post you said that there was some conflict between your religious practise and your wife. If you were truly practising a Christianity that was essentially the same, and you were both in agreement there would not be that emity--and discord. But there WAS.
I'd be horrified to learn that my daughter/son had converted to Catholicism, Jehovahs Witness, Church of Latter Day Saints, etc. They all name Jesus, they all claim to be Christians, but SO much has been added, sifting through such a religion to find the basic gospel seems nonsensical and a step backwards and not forward.
Unless you KNOW your Bible, you will not know how FAR away Catholicism is from what is in the bible. But many Catholics do not know. They just go to mass, pray the rosary, and light candles and pray to saints and NEVER KNOW what the Bible says about ALL of that. Go read your Bible and find out why her father is so concerned.
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RE: Is it hypocritical to call yourself christian and b... - 7/3/2008 9:27:34 AM
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martyfran
Posts: 565
Joined: 7/17/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: buckifn
1 reason could be ignorance of what the other faith, such as "Catholicism" actually consists of. It's not that odd really because many people INSIDE a specific denomination do not know the doctrine of their own chosen denomination, much less an outsider who has never attended any classes or experienced actually attending a service there.
Part of the problem is that there is a lot of misinformation that floats around. And when someone says something negative about your enemy, you tend to accept it with less critical thinking. You see this on these threads all the time, people have ideas about other denominations that aren't even close to being true. And when you confront them with the truth, they still believe the tired old lies.
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RE: Is it hypocritical to call yourself christian and b... - 7/3/2008 10:35:48 AM
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loco79
Posts: 90
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to Dakotasunbeam
There aer many things I could go into that protestants have added as tradition, so that argument is not really on solid grounds. Now matter how you try and spin it Catholics put the bible together in the late 390's with two councils and then a pope blessed. It was not like with Moses were God came to him directly. These councils were by men of the Catholic faith.
We must also remember that, Luther did not just happen to find a christian bible and begin preaching from it, he learned from the Catholic church. Whether he was right or wrong I am not going to go into right now, but if we look at it rationally, all christian churches from the 1500s have come from the Catholic one, or are a byproduct of a church that originated from the Catholic one. You cannont be greater than your origin, and dont feed the line that your church came from the bible, because we all know that isnt true.
Catholicism was the original christian church, so even if you dont agree with some of the teachings because you dont understand them. It doesnt mean that it is wrong. Because if any one church of Christ's is wrong, then all fall subject to being wrong.
And even if you made the agurment that Luther was more correct than the Catholic church, you would have to ask yourself if everything he taught was correct, or could he be wrong. Last I checked Luther believed in the immaculate coception of Mary, and all her subsequent roles that Catholics believe in.
So if he was wrong about Mary, which I know many Protestants will say he was, then couldnt he be wrong about other things. And if he is wrong about other things, then couldnt any subsequent church also be wrong?
My point is that no protestant has the authority to say that Catholicism is wrong, they might have a claim on being just as equal in authority, but to call Catholicism wrong you would also have to call any Protestant church wrong.
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RE: Is it hypocritical to call yourself christian and b... - 7/3/2008 10:44:01 AM
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preserved
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Sideways
quote:
ORIGINAL: Dakotasunbeam
Your wife has made a step toward the complicated and away from the simple.
Funny, I know a lot of Baptist churches that burden their people heavily with tons of extra rules and regulations that have little to do with the Bible.
Like the above poster said, Loco, even if some Protestants say that you are "technically Christian" you really aren't as good as a Christian as they are (see Dakota's post), and so you are going to run into problems.
Be firm with this father, but be gracious, loving and quick to forgive. That is the way of Christ.
Fundamental Baptists preaches and teaches from the Word (Bible) all else are man made rules and regulations
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RE: Is it hypocritical to call yourself christian and b... - 7/3/2008 10:46:00 AM
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loco79
Posts: 90
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quote:
ORIGINAL: preserved
quote:
ORIGINAL: upNORTder
quote:
The Catholic bible was the first christian bible, so in essesence all adopts portion of the Catholics and not vice versa.
The first Christian bible was written in Greek and Hebrew, not Latin.
Thanks upnortder...you are correct 
I never said that they werent written in Greek, I said ours was the original. As far as being written in Latin, that was the language that was most commonly used, just like today were they are written in English. So can you study from a bible that was or is written in the common language of the people, or can it only be studied from Greek?
You obviously know the answer to this.
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RE: Is it hypocritical to call yourself christian and b... - 7/3/2008 11:24:51 AM
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Sideways
Posts: 3703
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quote:
ORIGINAL: preserved
Fundamental Baptists preaches and teaches from the Word (Bible) all else are man made rules and regulations
Doesn't change the hypocrisy. A preacher may be believe he has basis for dictating to his congregation how long a man's hair can be, how long a women's skirt should be, what music they listen to, what movies they watch, etc.
Still a lot of extra rules and regulations under the banner of being a good Baptist and following the preacher's interpretation of the Word.
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RE: Is it hypocritical to call yourself christian and b... - 7/3/2008 11:28:06 AM
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AdrianaS
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Hi Loco,
This is very sensitive situation of course, it does involve families and people who love one another.
But, I'm sure not surprise with the situation as it is very clear since it is written in statements of faith for a while and the differences among denominations. Protestants authority sole source is the bible, as others may be the bible and "other". Roman Catholicism is Scriptures, Tradition and Magisterium the teaching authority.
Now when you see disagreements of all or some sorts check out where they are comming from regarding that, objectively by reading what they are about in their statements of faith. Even here at CW we see the statements of faith as Protestants only.
Now, again there are many denominations and their many congregations that are independents and as Sideways mentioned below we may find all kind of legalism and extra rules going on. For this motive to search and keeping searching the Scriptures as Bereans is a necessity as to rely in the Holy Spirit of God who is always ponting to Lord Jesus and no one else. He is the way and the only way. Glory to God.
Here a link from Baptist source about major US denominations that was helpful to myself 6 years ago, for me to understand in simple text (as I am a foreigner residing in US for almost 20 years), what those many denominations standings are and etc : denominations
Praying for you and your family.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Sideways
Funny, I know a lot of Baptist churches that burden their people heavily with tons of extra rules and regulations that have little to do with the Bible.
Like the above poster said, Loco, even if some Protestants say that you are "technically Christian" you really aren't as good as a Christian as they are (see Dakota's post), and so you are going to run into problems.
Be firm with this father, but be gracious, loving and quick to forgive. That is the way of Christ.
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RE: Is it hypocritical to call yourself christian and b... - 7/3/2008 11:36:37 AM
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Kat_D
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To the OP: You asked that this thread not get into a doctrinal discussion of the Catholic church. I suggest to you that there is no way to answer the original question without getting into the dogma/doctrines of Catholicism.
Those of us who believe Catholicism is doctrinally unsound would consequently believe that you wife's parents are not being hypocritical in their concern over her decision to convert, while those of us who believe that Catholicism is doctrinally sound will believe they are hypocritical. In order to explain why we believe what we do, there will obviously be discussion of Catholic doctrine pro and con.
Therefore, you should probably take this discussion to one of the Catholic threads because responders will continue to branch off into doctrinal issues and that will likely result in this thread being closed.
_____________________________
~Kat
"...And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes...no more death, sorrow, nor crying."
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RE: Is it hypocritical to call yourself christian and b... - 7/3/2008 11:37:57 AM
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Ps103
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MODERATOR'S NOTE :: ATTENTION PLEASE
::Whistles loudly::
Okay, in case you have not noticed, this is a relationship question and not a doctrinal question.
Do not use this thread to argue about doctrine.
HERE is a list of the threads in which you may do this (although before going to these threads it would appear that some posters could use some serious study )
Again, this thread is about the relationship between the OP and his father-in-law following his wife's joining his church. It is not about which church is "r | | |
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