RE: Being a Christian and being around people who drink.
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RE: Being a Christian and being around people who drink. - 7/9/2008 11:36:09 AM
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martyfran
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quote:
ORIGINAL: deliveredarling
quote:
How does going to a bar sufficient proof of a lack of holiness?
If God can not look upon sin, then what in the world does He think about His children being in a place that does nothing but promote sin? This really is a no brainer 
Does a bar necessarily promote sin? Certainly Christians have the freedom to have a beer or a glass of wine do they not?
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RE: Being a Christian and being around people who drink. - 7/9/2008 11:37:39 AM
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GroupW
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quote:
ORIGINAL: martyfran
quote:
ORIGINAL: deliveredarling
quote:
How does going to a bar sufficient proof of a lack of holiness?
If God can not look upon sin, then what in the world does He think about His children being in a place that does nothing but promote sin? This really is a no brainer
Does a bar necessarily promote sin? Certainly Christians have the freedom to have a beer or a glass of wine do they not?
Yes, but don't tell anyone here. ;)
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RE: Being a Christian and being around people who drink. - 7/9/2008 11:52:33 AM
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stellaluna
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Posting cold.
The vast majority of my friends--Christian and non--get together to drink. At least, that's what it seems like. There is alcohol, and lots of it, at every event. I don't think drinking alcohol is a sin per se, but I do think that not being able to be at a social event without imbibing is a problem (or having a get together because you need a reason to drink). But that's another thread, probably. I used to drink, but now I don't at all and I've learned that being around a bunch of drinking/drunk people is downright boring and stupid. So that's what I tell my friends when they invite me over and I say no.
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RE: Being a Christian and being around people who drink. - 7/9/2008 12:12:06 PM
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Qtman
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quote:
ORIGINAL: stellaluna
Posting cold.
The vast majority of my friends--Christian and non--get together to drink. At least, that's what it seems like. There is alcohol, and lots of it, at every event. I don't think drinking alcohol is a sin per se, but I do think that not being able to be at a social event without imbibing is a problem (or having a get together because you need a reason to drink). But that's another thread, probably. I used to drink, but now I don't at all and I've learned that being around a bunch of drinking/drunk people is downright boring and stupid. So that's what I tell my friends when they invite me over and I say no.
That is pretty much my position. I do not drink. But it is just a personal choice not because I think it is a sin. I don't mind being around people that are drinking as long as they are not drinking to much. I will not hang around a person that is drunk. I have been caught a couple of times being the only sober person in a room full of drunks and I didn't like it.
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RE: Being a Christian and being around people who drink. - 7/9/2008 12:18:32 PM
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deliveredarling
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quote:
So you're saying that Jesus would hang out with ANYBODY, including folk like you and me, because none are righteous, no not one????
You're right, Jesus never encouraged that which put Him on the cross, son. But He spent the vast majority of His time ministering to common sinners, including prostitutes and thieves. As He said, the well didn't need a physician and the religious folk didn't think they needed one.
Nice twisting on your part.
he spent His time MINISTERING, not fraternizing with them. There is a difference and you know it.
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RE: Being a Christian and being around people who drink. - 7/9/2008 12:23:22 PM
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deliveredarling
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quote:
Does a bar necessarily promote sin? Certainly Christians have the freedom to have a beer or a glass of wine do they not?
How many Christian bars do you know of? I'm not saying it's wrong to drink. I am saying that it is sinful to participate in a place that encourages sinning.
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"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
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RE: Being a Christian and being around people who drink. - 7/9/2008 12:28:43 PM
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JimboFletch
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quote:
ORIGINAL: deliveredarling
he spent His time MINISTERING, not fraternizing with them. There is a difference and you know it.
And you honestly think He got the reputation of the religious folk for being a drunkard and a glutton by dropping off meals or a few words and moving along?
For God so loved the WHAT, hypocrites and religious? And you think you can avoid the lost as much as possible but love them?
You have a very sanitized and unrealistic view of the Lord.
For further edifcation, read what Paul wrote in 1 Corinthians 5. In it the ones he says to avoid company with were not fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters. No, he said to avoid the company of church folk that were hypocrites - just like Jesus practiced.
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RE: Being a Christian and being around people who drink. - 7/9/2008 12:31:01 PM
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drmark
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quote:
Certainly Christians have the freedom to have a beer or a glass of wine do they not? Some do, but some do not! Seems like a lot of folks here are looking down on their weaker brethren (Romans 14:3).
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Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
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RE: Being a Christian and being around people who drink. - 7/9/2008 12:32:13 PM
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JimboFletch
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quote:
ORIGINAL: deliveredarling
How many Christian bars do you know of?...
Just curious: Do you only frequent "Christian" restaurants, convenience stores, grocery stores, clothing or sportwear stores, and other businesses?
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RE: Being a Christian and being around people who drink. - 7/9/2008 12:37:24 PM
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GroupW
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quote:
ORIGINAL: deliveredarling
he spent His time MINISTERING, not fraternizing with them. There is a difference and you know it.
quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
And you honestly think He got the reputation of the religious folk for being a drunkard and a glutton by dropping off meals or a few words and moving along?
Honestly, there's no direct evidence to support either contention. The bible to me seems fairly silent on the nature of Christ's keeping company with such "undesireables". Clearly, he did maintain some degree of contact. Was it ministering, "fraternizing", or a mixture of both? Scripture does not directly say.
The weight of the evidence though would seem to be both, as Jimbo implies. At the very least, we know his company was sufficient to draw the suspicion and ire of the religious folk of his day. That much is plainly clear.
On the other hand, there is no evidence that I can find to support the idea that his relationships with these folk was strictly ministerial rather than personal. This idea seems to be inferred from our perception of what Christ must have been like.
_____________________________
“For every problem, there is a solution that is simple, elegant and wrong.” -H.L. Mencken
"Most people would rather die than think; in fact, they do so." -Bertrand Russell
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RE: Being a Christian and being around people who drink. - 7/9/2008 12:48:23 PM
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SonInMe1
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quote:
not fraternizing with them.
How do you love your enemies and not have a relationship with them?
I don't support hanging out at bars for chrsitians. I have no problem with once in a while going there. I've been in bars...maybe 20 times?...since I was saved in '96. Would you consider that hanging out in bars?
I play golf and the common occurance is to go into the clubhouse and have a few drinks before ending the day.
Lets just say I "steer" the conversation.
Some of my friends..ain't so friendly anymore because of my "steering"...but...they heard the message God had for them and I am not sure that could have been presented..to them...in any other fashion. Maybe...but there was opportunity.
Now I don't hang out at bars and I don't hang out with them all the time because...being in bars and drinking ain't good for me. However, you do what you do.
I'd rather be percieved as a hypocrit by unsaved people than to be percieved as some perfect little christian becuase then..I would be truly a hypocrit.
Ivory towers are very lonely places. They are hard places to witness from. No one supports putting on the world to witness...Jesus did not, but He recognized that He was in the world, not of it. A christian's integrity will shine through no matter where he/she is.
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You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
James 4:4
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RE: Being a Christian and being around people who drink. - 7/9/2008 12:48:34 PM
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deliveredarling
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1 Corinthians 5:9-11, Rom 6:1-16 and many other refute that there is no hard evidence either way. We are called to holiness, and that just will not be found in a bar or hanging out with sinners living i continuing sin.
I'll even highlight a verse for you:
Rom 6:12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its lusts,
Rom 6:13 and do not go on presenting the members of your body to sin {as} instruments of unrighteousness; but present yourselves to God as those alive from the dead, and your members {as} instruments of righteousness to God.
Sin paul was directly taught by Christ, it would make sense that the student reflects his teacher, wouldn't it?
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
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RE: Being a Christian and being around people who drink. - 7/9/2008 12:53:01 PM
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SonInMe1
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If I remember correctly the bible says not to hang around christians who are in continue sin...not the worldly people.
Being in a bar does not mean you are sinning either.
Being in church does not mean you aren't sinning too.
If you get all of your "fun" from hanging out in bars then...I would say you have a problem. Going there with unsaved friends a couple times a year...is not a sin. ( It of course could be but not neccesarily always is )
_____________________________
You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
James 4:4
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RE: Being a Christian and being around people who drink. - 7/9/2008 12:58:17 PM
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drmark
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quote:
Just curious: Do you only frequent "Christian" restaurants, convenience stores, grocery stores, clothing or sportwear stores, and other businesses? So do you equate eating out, buying gas, clothing, and groceries with attending an establishment wherein the expressed intent of the patrons is to use mind-altering chemicals to better socialize? How many bars are owned by Christians anyway? A whole lot less than the businesses you listed!
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Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
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RE: Being a Christian and being around people who drink. - 7/9/2008 12:58:39 PM
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JimboFletch
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quote:
ORIGINAL: deliveredarling
1 Corinthians 5:9-11, Rom 6:1-16 and many other refute that there is no hard evidence either way. We are called to holiness, and that just will not be found in a bar or hanging out with sinners living i continuing sin.
I'll even highlight a verse for you:
Rom 6:12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its lusts,
Rom 6:13 and do not go on presenting the members of your body to sin {as} instruments of unrighteousness; but present yourselves to God as those alive from the dead, and your members {as} instruments of righteousness to God.
Sin paul was directly taught by Christ, it would make sense that the student reflects his teacher, wouldn't it?
Dearest DD, I have no issue with the verse you quote. None whatsoever.
I served in the US Navy for over 9 years and was exposed to probably more sin than you'll ever see. YET, I remained holy wherever I went and whomever I was with in whatever place I went. Because of WHO was within me, not because of somebody's "standards."
As long as you think that holiness is what you do and where you go and how you dress and who you spend time with, then, sadly you won't ever learn what true holiness is or how it is obtained or how it is displayed or how it is kept.
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RE: Being a Christian and being around people who drink. - 7/9/2008 1:01:39 PM
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JimboFletch
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quote:
ORIGINAL: drmark
quote:
Just curious: Do you only frequent "Christian" restaurants, convenience stores, grocery stores, clothing or sportwear stores, and other businesses? So do you equate eating out, buying gas, clothing, and groceries with attending an establishment wherein the expressed intent of the patrons is to use mind-altering chemicals to better socialize? How many bars are owned by Christians anyway? A whole lot less than the businesses you listed!
I wasn't asking you sir, but I don't suppose any of the stores you frequent sell mind altering chemicals (including alcohol) or pornographic magazines or have immoral employees, owners, or patrons. No, I supoose you only buy from sinless Christian people with pure inventories and clean motives & minds.
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RE: Being a Christian and being around people who drink. - 7/9/2008 1:06:13 PM
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martyfran
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quote:
ORIGINAL: drmark
quote:
Certainly Christians have the freedom to have a beer or a glass of wine do they not? Some do, but some do not! Seems like a lot of folks here are looking down on their weaker brethren (Romans 14:3).
Or perhaps some look down upon their stronger brethren.
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RE: Being a Christian and being around people who drink. - 7/9/2008 1:09:18 PM
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martyfran
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quote:
ORIGINAL: deliveredarling
quote:
Does a bar necessarily promote sin? Certainly Christians have the freedom to have a beer or a glass of wine do they not?
How many Christian bars do you know of? I'm not saying it's wrong to drink. I am saying that it is sinful to participate in a place that encourages sinning.
Now, how does one tell if a bar promotes sin? For example, my wife and I go to the local China Buffet, and they do serve alcohol, but I rarely see people drinking there. Is it ok or not ok for a Christian to go to there? Where does one draw the line?
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RE: Being a Christian and being around people who drink. - 7/9/2008 1:09:27 PM
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bluestone
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Another point of view:
I think it would be based in part on the establishment the people are frequenting.
I have not problem going with friends to the local pub. (serves food as well a alcohol, not a get drunk and pass out kind of joint) but I am not comfortable in nightclubs, dance clubs, etc.
Going to a place where the cops are called on a regular basis, a bar that has a reputation as a drink -and- puke would not be a place I would go with friends.
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RE: Being a Christian and being around people who drink. - 7/9/2008 1:13:44 PM
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deliveredarling
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Jimbo, the standards I have presented, are not of my making. They have been laid out for us in scripture. I do not hang out with drunkards, slanderers, gossipers, etc. Not because I am better than them but because i can't hardly stand to hear them speak. it reviles me. I can't stand to hear them curse using the Lord's name in vain. I seriously doubt that it is me that is truly offended, but more so the HS dwelling inside of me. i don't go to bars because He delivered me from alcoholism. I have no desire to throw that deliverance in His face. i don't believe that it is ok for me to sit in a setting that He saved me from. I don't think I can effectively witness to people from a bar stool. I worked with the lowest of the low for over a year. I did not judge them or feel that I was better than them. However, I did know better than to bring these people into my inner circle. I don't call that hypocrisy or judgment, i call it wise. I can't tell anyone else what is right or wrong for them. The OP asked, and I shared. Besides that, I could absolutely care less if someone things that I am a hypocrite. I'm not concerned with the sins of the past. I'm more concerned with remembering the lessons He taught me from my past sinning. Those lessons learned, i am more than willing to share with others.
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
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RE: Being a Christian and being around people who drink. - 7/9/2008 1:19:03 PM
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DaveW
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quote:
ORIGINAL: StephenJ
I'm curious for the people who don't think it's okay to hang out with people who drink. What do you think about the context of Christ's first miracle? The congregation I grew up in (Full Gospel Assembly denomination) taught that to even SMELL alcohol = the sin of drunkenness and negated your salvation. (actually any sin no matter how small nullified salvation) Of course it would not have been ok with them to hang out with people who drank.
An amusing anecdote from then:
The pastor of the church (who was so adamant against smelling alcohol) told us this AFTER the fact. He was praying one day and sensed the Lord leading him to go to this bar he used to spend a lot of time at in his BC days and hand out tracks. He immediatly rejected the idea as God would never tell him to sin (by smelling and being around booze) but every day this leading kept getting stronger. After about 6 weeks of this, he finally figured out what to do: He got a bunch of tracks, stood outside the bar and hyperventilated. Then he held his breath, ran thru the building thowing tracks at everyone and made it out in that one breath. He was so proud he could "obey God without sinning......." (his words not mine)
As to the miracle of Jesus turning water into grape juice? Priceless.
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RE: Being a Christian and being around people who drink. - 7/9/2008 1:53:06 PM
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GroupW
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In the words of that very spiritual comedian Larry the Cable Guy, "I don't care WHO ya' are, that's funny!"
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"Most people would rather die than think; in fact, they do so." -Bertrand Russell
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