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RE: Baptist - 7/16/2008 2:05:35 PM
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yustme
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Isn't there a scripture that says,absent from the body,present with the Lord?
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RE: Baptist - 7/16/2008 2:10:52 PM
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KatMack
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Actually, it's reversed:
2 Corinthians 5:5-7 (King James Version)
Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit.
Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:
(For we walk by faith, not by sight:)
2 Corinthians 5:5-7 (New International Version)
Now it is God who has made us for this very purpose and has given us the Spirit as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.
Therefore we are always confident and know that as long as we are at home in the body we are away from the Lord. We live by faith, not by sight.
--Kat
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RE: Baptist - 7/16/2008 2:21:26 PM
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rcjames
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quote:
ORIGINAL: KatMack
Actually, it's reversed:
2 Corinthians 5:5-7 (King James Version)
Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit.
Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:
(For we walk by faith, not by sight:)
2 Corinthians 5:5-7 (New International Version)
Now it is God who has made us for this very purpose and has given us the Spirit as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.
Therefore we are always confident and know that as long as we are at home in the body we are away from the Lord. We live by faith, not by sight.
--Kat
Kat, you fall prey to a very common error by not reading things in contest;
(2Co 5:6) Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:
(2Co 5:7) (For we walk by faith, not by sight:)
(2Co 5:8) We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
Thanks
RC
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Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Baptist - 7/16/2008 4:57:04 PM
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KatMack
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Sorry about that and thanks for the correction, rcjames. That's what I get for trusting biblegateway.com. Posting on the fly from work and just did a search for the phrase. When I clicked "In Context" it only gave through verse 7.
--Kat
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<-- My sweet blessings.
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RE: Baptist - 7/17/2008 7:59:31 AM
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yustme
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Is there scripture to support "soul sleep"?
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RE: Baptist - 7/17/2008 11:01:51 AM
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rcjames
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quote:
ORIGINAL: KatMack
Sorry about that and thanks for the correction, rcjames. That's what I get for trusting biblegateway.com. Posting on the fly from work and just did a search for the phrase. When I clicked "In Context" it only gave through verse 7.
--Kat
I certainly understand the problem with posting on the fly. I just made a major error on another thread with a drive by posting of mine. OOOPS.
Thansk
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Baptist - 7/17/2008 11:03:07 AM
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rcjames
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quote:
ORIGINAL: WesP
quote:
ORIGINAL: yustme
Is there scripture to support "soul sleep"?
Nope.
Ditto on that answer.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Baptist - 7/17/2008 1:15:30 PM
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yustme
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: WesP
quote:
ORIGINAL: yustme
Is there scripture to support "soul sleep"?
Nope.
Ditto on that answer.
Thanks
RC
Then where are people getting this belief from?
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RE: Baptist - 7/17/2008 3:50:34 PM
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rcjames
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quote:
ORIGINAL: yustme
Then where are people getting this belief from?
I am not sure as my expertise in not in the cultic teachings, but I would guess that it comes from an association of the soul/spirit with the body. That when we die or body is still here, probably until the rapture or the ressurrection (what ever you believe about that) and so you soul must also be there, and instead of feeling the worms eat you; you sleep through it.
I come by that bit of heresy from talking with some Jehova Witnesses and 7th day adventist and a few others that seem to be confused about what happens when we die.
I perosonally believe as Paul taught; Believers are either here or with Christ.
Now there are many who disagee with that; so I guess we will just have to wait and see.
Thsnkis
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Baptist - 7/18/2008 8:21:37 AM
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yustme
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: yustme
Then where are people getting this belief from?
I am not sure as my expertise in not in the cultic teachings, but I would guess that it comes from an association of the soul/spirit with the body. That when we die or body is still here, probably until the rapture or the ressurrection (what ever you believe about that) and so you soul must also be there, and instead of feeling the worms eat you; you sleep through it.
I come by that bit of heresy from talking with some Jehova Witnesses and 7th day adventist and a few others that seem to be confused about what happens when we die.
I perosonally believe as Paul taught; Believers are either here or with Christ.
Now there are many who disagee with that; so I guess we will just have to wait and see.
Thsnkis
RC
Unless I read your post wrong,you called that heresy teaching and i understand some Baptist believe this.I've been with the Baptist for 30 yrs now,and I've never heard that.Of course I don't know what sect believes that,and there are so many.
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RE: Baptist - 7/18/2008 10:27:31 AM
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rcjames
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quote:
ORIGINAL: yustme
Unless I read your post wrong,you called that heresy teaching and i understand some Baptist believe this.I've been with the Baptist for 30 yrs now,and I've never heard that.Of course I don't know what sect believes that,and there are so many.
I do believe soul sleep is a false teaching.
And there are so many different Bapitst groups that one of them might believe that; I just do not know of one that does.
Thsnks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Baptist - 7/18/2008 10:39:51 AM
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Qtman
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I know of no Baptist churches that believe in the concept of "soul sleep". It has been around a long time though. Even John Calvin supported this concept. I have read the scripture they used to back up their beliefs and I do not get the same meaning they came up with. However, since Calvin was a big supporter of this theory I assume there may be some baptist that accept it. I, however, do not. You can google on the term "soul sleep" and find a lot of information out there.
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Don't take life here to seriously. No one gets out alive.
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RE: Baptist - 7/18/2008 10:54:38 AM
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yustme
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
The most telling phrase of the FWB's "What We Believe Page" is found at the tail-end of the somewhat misleading heading of Perseverance.
Since man, however, continues to have free choice, it is possible because of temptations and the weakness of human flesh for him to fall into the practice of sin and to make shipwreck of his faith and be lost.
JimboFletch, you are absolutely correct; Free Will Baptist are not 5th Point Calvinist as are the Southern Baptist folks.
Another point that separates them is that FWB's do not believe in the Rapture, but do believe in soul sleep and a resurrection at the end times.
Along with the Southern Bapticostals I heve in my Church, there are also a couple of Free Willycostals. We do have some interesting discussions.
Thanks
RC
I found the post that I was thinking about.I FIRMLY believe in the rapture,and I DO NOT believe in soul sleep.
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RE: Baptist - 7/18/2008 11:07:11 AM
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Qtman
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I have been in and out of Southern Baptist churches since 1976. I even attended a couple of Independent Fundamental Baptist churches and I have never encountered one that believed in soul sleep. I am not saying they don't exist but I have never been in one. THe theory of soul sleep or a holding room for all the souls of the departed are not scriptural and is something preached by the likes of Arnold Murray. The JW's and Seventh Day adventist I think believe this also.
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Don't take life here to seriously. No one gets out alive.
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RE: Baptist - 7/18/2008 12:48:37 PM
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Ps103
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JWs and SDAs are the only ones I know of that "officially" believe in soul sleep. but sometimes people come up with it on their own (how, I am not sure.)
I have seen posts from non-JW, non-SDAs on the boards that come up with this without calling it that.
I have never heard of a Baptist church of any flavor that taught it, but there may well be some. It certainly is not a "Baptist Thing."
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RE: Baptist - 7/18/2008 1:16:43 PM
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yustme
Posts: 407
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quote:
ORIGINAL: yustme
quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
The most telling phrase of the FWB's "What We Believe Page" is found at the tail-end of the somewhat misleading heading of Perseverance.
Since man, however, continues to have free choice, it is possible because of temptations and the weakness of human flesh for him to fall into the practice of sin and to make shipwreck of his faith and be lost.
JimboFletch, you are absolutely correct; Free Will Baptist are not 5th Point Calvinist as are the Southern Baptist folks.
Another point that separates them is that FWB's do not believe in the Rapture, but do believe in soul sleep and a resurrection at the end times.
Along with the Southern Bapticostals I heve in my Church, there are also a couple of Free Willycostals. We do have some interesting discussions.
Thanks
RC
I found the post that I was thinking about.I FIRMLY believe in the rapture,and I DO NOT believe in soul sleep.
Pay attention to the second paragraph.According to the this,the free will Baptist's believe in soul sleep and do not believe in the rapture.
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RE: Baptist - 7/18/2008 1:25:54 PM
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Ps103
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According to THIS, they do not:
quote:
Death
As a result of sin, all mankind is subject to the
death of the body.152 The soul does not die with the
body, but immediately after death enters into a conscious
state of happiness or misery, according to the
character here possessed.153
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RE: Baptist - 7/18/2008 1:27:36 PM
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Ps103
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Note that the above is not posted to contradict RC.
I am sure there are some FWBs that do believe in soul sleep, but it is not a part of their doctrine.
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Fasten your seatbelts...it's going to be a bumpy night.
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RE: Baptist - 7/18/2008 2:38:12 PM
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rcjames
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Ps103
Note that the above is not posted to contradict RC.
I am sure there are some FWBs that do believe in soul sleep, but it is not a part of their doctrine.
That's cool PS103; JimboFletch has already corrected me on that, and I posted that because of his Baptist background I would certainly yield to him on the matter.
Thsnks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Baptist - 7/18/2008 7:30:47 PM
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yustme
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After rereading those posts I believe I was wrong on the Baptists and soul sleep.However,If there Is any church that believes such a thing,I strongly suggest they study their Bible real good.There's no truth to soul sleep.And YES,there will be a rapture,even though the word rapture does not appear in the Bible.
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RE: Baptist - 7/19/2008 1:05:15 AM
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AboundinginHisGrace
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I have been Southern Baptist my whole life. We do believe in osao. We do not however believe in limited atonement. We believe that Salvation is through faith in what Jesus did for us on the cross (became sin for us, a propitiation for our sins). We believe people have a choice, Christ paved the way for all and whoever believes on him will have eternal life. We do not believe Baptism to be essential to salvation, however it is a commandment.
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Ephesians 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.
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RE: Baptist - 7/19/2008 10:27:26 AM
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drfuss
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quote:
ORIGINAL: AboundinginHisGrace
I have been Southern Baptist my whole life. We do believe in osao. We do not however believe in limited atonement. We believe that Salvation is through faith in what Jesus did for us on the cross (became sin for us, a propitiation for our sins). We believe people have a choice, Christ paved the way for all and whoever believes on him will have eternal life. We do not believe Baptism to be essential to salvation, however it is a commandment.
drfuss: Concerning Limited Atonement, 5 Point Calvinists believe in Limited Attonement. A survey in August 2006 by Lifeway (the SBC literature organization) showed that about 10% of SBC ministers are 5 Point Calvinists and therefore believe in Limited Attonement. Granted, most SBC ministers do not believe in Limited Attonement, but about 10% due.
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RE: Baptist - 7/19/2008 2:06:26 PM
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AboundinginHisGrace
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quote:
ORIGINAL: drfuss
quote:
ORIGINAL: AboundinginHisGrace
I have been Southern Baptist my whole life. We do believe in osao. We do not however believe in limited atonement. We believe that Salvation is through faith in what Jesus did for us on the cross (became sin for us, a propitiation | | |
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