RE: Daddy's taking us to the zoo tomorrow, zoo tomorrow, zoo tomorrow
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RE: Daddy's taking us to the zoo tomorrow, zoo tomorrow... - 7/14/2008 7:19:51 PM
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kohls356
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Well since I wasn't there I try to see both sides of a situation. If I read it correctly it seemed that the op turned around and saw this man reach out towards her granddaughter. I just wonder if it was at all possible if she missed seeing something that might have caused him to do that. I wonder if the granddaughter might have stumbled or look like she was going to fall and the man was reaching to steady her or keep her from falling. I know I have just out of instinct when I have seen a child stumble.
Not justifying what the man did really just trying to see a different perspective.
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RE: Daddy's taking us to the zoo tomorrow, zoo tomorrow... - 7/14/2008 8:00:07 PM
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Covaan_Meshuga
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Thank you, 3cappuccinosmom. Indeed, no one who is informed would reach out to a child (whose back was to them) without permission, especially a teacher, because they, especially, have gone through all the classes, have trembled at the news, have been warned and warned and warned.
kohls356, you have a valid point, but when I turned, she was just walking along. There didn't seem to be anything different, other than him. It is curious, too: if he had been innocent, I would think he would have explained himself as I grabbed her and told my grandson to grab my skirt because we were going to run. Instead, he turned and started walking the opposite way, quickly. Not a word. Not one word. He did not act like an innocent man.
Further, I wonder if I should have left out that he was a teacher in writing this. The idea is not that the guy was a teacher; it was that he was a child-predator, in my informed opinion -- informed because of what he did and what he didn't do.
_____________________________
Abiyah
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
A tree's fruit is obvious; you have to look harder for the worm hole.
G-d has only one natural Son; EVERYONE else is adopted.
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RE: Daddy's taking us to the zoo tomorrow, zoo tomorrow... - 7/15/2008 8:37:54 PM
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kohls356
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Covaan_Meshuga
It is curious, too: if he had been innocent, I would think he would have explained himself as I grabbed her and told my grandson to grab my skirt because we were going to run. Instead, he turned and started walking the opposite way, quickly. Not a word. Not one word. He did not act like an innocent man.
Yes, I would have been suspicious then too since he didn't say anything to you.
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RE: Daddy's taking us to the zoo tomorrow, zoo tomorrow... - 7/16/2008 11:18:48 AM
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Mrs.Wifey
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 3cappuccinosmom
quote:
I think Covaan started this thread to issue a general warning about what can happen if a child is allowed to wander from our sight and I thank her for doing so. We all need to be reminded of the dangers that lurk for children who wander.
I certainly don't think she deserved to have her personal experience with her grandchild picked apart and placed under a microscope and then chided for her concern and feelings about the man in question. Sometimes our hearts and spirits discern danger and that's what I think happened here.
I agree.
And I don't think the concern was at all invalid. If I noticed a man seeming to be following us, and then turned around to find him reaching out towards my small child, I would freak out. 
Even if he is completely innocent, a grown man should know better than to do that. If you have any reason to want to converse, pick up, or question a strange child, you ask her parent or caregiver permission first.
I would probably freak out too. I have a pretty good "creep meter" and it hasn't failed me yet so I wouldn't hesitate to have done the same thing Covaan did and tell the security guards and/or police. I have been in the presence of to many corrupt men already(only 3, but 3 is enough) to not trust my instinct. I certainly would not have worried about the possibility that he might be a teacher. That line of thinking just brings back memories of when a friend was being persistently molested and adults around her refused to contact CPS because "she might be lying".
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Ryanne
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RE: Daddy's taking us to the zoo tomorrow, zoo tomorrow... - 7/16/2008 12:03:14 PM
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Sideways
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Now, if a child reported abuse to me, I would not hesitate to report it, but because of my experience with 2 cousins who have indeed lied about abuse, I would not take a child's word as gospel. There must be some sort of supporting evidence to actually remove a child from their home/put a man in jail.
Children are sometimes accomplished liars who either don't understand lies from truth or deliberately lie just to get revenge on a daddy who actually dares to discipline them. Even so, an investigation is always warranted. I just don't assume a man is guilty until proven innocent.
Although, Covann told the police she wanted the man prosecuted. I'm not exactly sure what she wanted him prosecuted for, but reporting suspicious behavior so that the guards/police can have a heightened sense of altertness for this man seems appropriate under the circumstances.
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RE: Daddy's taking us to the zoo tomorrow, zoo tomorrow... - 7/16/2008 12:25:41 PM
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Sideways
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This thread has helped me be aware of one thing - how my dH interacts with children not his own. My husband would sooner slit his own wrists then harm a child, but he's a naturally friendly guy who loves children. He sometimes will wave or smile a child in public if he happens to catch eyes with a child, and he's one of those guys who children seem to be attracted to.
Yesterday, we all went to the toddler gym. I wasn't feeling well, so I sat on the sidelines while dH and my son played in the gym. A little girl seemed quite taken with my dH, and dH started to respond by playing peekaboo and smiling/waving to her. He never actually touched her, but I had to warn him to be aware of how his actions might look to outsiders.
One time he found a 9 year girl lost in a park, and he wanted to help. I was there with him, and dH make sure he never touched the girl, and quickly led her back to a much more populated area of the park where there were lots of witnesses. It's sad, but I really have to be paranoid on his behalf (that he might be falsely accused). I'm always trying to be on the lookout for how he might appear to another mom.
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RE: Daddy's taking us to the zoo tomorrow, zoo tomorrow... - 7/16/2008 1:49:02 PM
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Covaan_Meshuga
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My "creep meter" is worn out (thank you for the term, Mrs. Wifey). When I was younger, I was less trusting. I could pick out a creep among many. But I can't do that anymore, I have learned. In fact, I allowed an adult child predator to be a peripheral friend (as in we didn't hang out, but we were friendly) until I began to hear of incident after incident of what he did to little girls through decades, culminating with his daughter finally admitting what her father did to her. I was horrified that I had ever said a friendly word to him without careful thought.
It seems that with age, I have lost my "creep meter," or it is broken.
ORIGINAL by Sideways
quote:
Although, Covann told the police she wanted the man prosecuted. I'm not exactly sure what she wanted him prosecuted for . . . . Anything! Anything! I wanted him to know that at least I was on his trail, and also, I was still very upset about what he had done. But of course, they couldn't do anything. Furthermore, I was so emotionally relieved that he had not put his hands on her in any manner -- not even a touch. I think I would have lost my lunch right there on the phone when they asked, if he had. The very thought made my stomach churn.
< Message edited by Covaan_Meshuga -- 7/16/2008 2:08:38 PM >
_____________________________
Abiyah
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
A tree's fruit is obvious; you have to look harder for the worm hole.
G-d has only one natural Son; EVERYONE else is adopted.
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RE: Daddy's taking us to the zoo tomorrow, zoo tomorrow... - 7/16/2008 3:35:24 PM
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jstbeliev
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covaan,
Honey, you did the right thing and I thank God that you did have something within you that made you aware of this very suspicious man. I would have done the same thing except I probably would have said something like "can I help you?" with all the neck rolling we black women are famous for...lol. I would've been walking backwards as I said it all the while watching him. I would've like to have heard what his response would've been. I applaud your behavior and your quick actions. Too many people do nothing.......and that is why so many perps get away with what they do...we have become use to the violence and are nonchalant in heart. Truly a tragedy.
Unfortunately this is not the 1950's...this is now and the times, they are a changing for the worse just as our Lord Jesus said it would. So we cannot afford to let our guard down even a little bit. As the times wax worse and as the serpent lives, people will do things evil.
Another point is what do you do when it is in your own home among your own people.............and you see the male relative you know reach for your child?.....................selah..................
_____________________________
Why should you die? HE already died for you...
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RE: Daddy's taking us to the zoo tomorrow, zoo tomorrow... - 7/16/2008 7:08:36 PM
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Mrs.Wifey
Posts: 4808
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From: The Gorgeous plains of Colorado
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Sideways
This thread has helped me be aware of one thing - how my dH interacts with children not his own. My husband would sooner slit his own wrists then harm a child, but he's a naturally friendly guy who loves children. He sometimes will wave or smile a child in public if he happens to catch eyes with a child, and he's one of those guys who children seem to be attracted to.
Yesterday, we all went to the toddler gym. I wasn't feeling well, so I sat on the sidelines while dH and my son played in the gym. A little girl seemed quite taken with my dH, and dH started to respond by playing peekaboo and smiling/waving to her. He never actually touched her, but I had to warn him to be aware of how his actions might look to outsiders.
One time he found a 9 year girl lost in a park, and he wanted to help. I was there with him, and dH make sure he never touched the girl, and quickly led her back to a much more populated area of the park where there were lots of witnesses. It's sad, but I really have to be paranoid on his behalf (that he might be falsely accused). I'm always trying to be on the lookout for how he might appear to another mom.
Micah and I have had discussions about the same thing. He never used to think twice about running one of SIL's little friends home(they are in their mid-teens) but IMO, that's not wise at all. I always make sure I go with them, or I just take them myself. He also doesn't pick up female coworkers when he is alone.
It's just to risky.
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Ryanne
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RE: Daddy's taking us to the zoo tomorrow, zoo tomorrow... - 7/17/2008 8:27:25 PM
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Covaan_Meshuga
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quote:
ORIGINAL: jstbeliev
covaan,
Honey, you did the right thing and I thank God that you did have something within you that made you aware of this very suspicious man. I would have done the same thing except I probably would have said something like "can I help you?" with all the neck rolling we black women are famous for...lol. I would've been walking backwards as I said it all the while watching him. I would've like to have heard what his response would've been. I applaud your behavior and your quick actions. Too many people do nothing.......and that is why so many perps get away with what they do...we have become use to the violence and are nonchalant in heart. Truly a tragedy.
Unfortunately this is not the 1950's...this is now and the times, they are a changing for the worse just as our Lord Jesus said it would. So we cannot afford to let our guard down even a little bit. As the times wax worse and as the serpent lives, people will do things evil.
Another point is what do you do when it is in your own home among your own people.............and you see the male relative you know reach for your child?.....................selah..................
Oh, Jstbeliev! You're so cute! I don't know how to do that head thing, but sometimes, if I could, I would!
Yes, in the '50s, we would stay out playing way past dark in my little town, and it didn't matter. One of our favorite games was racing the cars on skates, with the challenge of making it up our seven steps to the porch, still in skates, in the dark, after each race.
Sing along:
quote:
Those were the days, my friend,
I thought they'd never end;
Those were the days,
Oh, yes, those were the days!
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Regarding husbands who love all children, yes, we have had to put the breaks on them, but the fact is that we women have to be careful, too. As more and more women commit similar heinous crimes, we have to watch ourselves as well. People have made G-d's wonderful Earth into an ugly world in way too many ways.
_____________________________
Abiyah
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
A tree's fruit is obvious; you have to look harder for the worm hole.
G-d has only one natural Son; EVERYONE else is adopted.
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RE: Daddy's taking us to the zoo tomorrow, zoo tomorrow... - 7/18/2008 1:40:07 AM
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Covaan_Meshuga
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quote:
ORIGINAL: jstbeliev
Another point is what do you do when it is in your own home among your own people.............and you see the male relative you know reach for your child?.....................selah..................
Had an uncle like that. I don't know if he is still alive or not. Last I knew, he was ill. He is in his late 70s, I guess. He never saw my children, but about 20 years ago, I got word that he was coming to visit my state. I nearly choked. I would not have so much as opened the door to that person, but I would have kept it locked. After I called 9-1-1, I would have opened the tiny cast iron communication door and told him that the police were on the way and that if he did not go away posthaste, and stay away, he would wish he had, I don't care if he had traveled 1500 or so miles. Then I would have gotten a restraining order against him.
If you are dealing with this, Jstbeliev, I am sorry. So sorry.
_____________________________
Abiyah
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
A tree's fruit is obvious; you have to look harder for the worm hole.
G-d has only one natural Son; EVERYONE else is adopted.
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RE: Daddy's taking us to the zoo tomorrow, zoo tomorrow... - 7/18/2008 6:47:19 AM
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DaveW
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Just read your OP. You were absolutely right.
My cousin (much younger than I) was best friends with the son of the local school superintendant. He accompanied their family on a trip to Disney World either his junior or senior year of HS. While the mom and friend were out, the superintendant climbed into my cousin's shower .......
They guy ended up doing almost a decade in a Fla prison.
Just because someone is in education does not mean they are not a preditor.
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RE: Daddy's taking us to the zoo tomorrow, zoo tomorrow... - 7/18/2008 11:31:04 AM
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Covaan_Meshuga
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Dave, that is absolutely horrible. I am so sorry. And one of the things I am sorry about is that the guy only spent a decade in prison; that is heinous. Adults can do something that harms a child so permanently, leaving the strongest of them with the horrid memory. How is this young man today? How did he handle the guy getting out of prison?
quote:
ORIGINAL: Covaan_Meshuga
They called the zoo guards, who asked to speak to me. "What did he look like?" they asked.
"I don't know! I don't know! I just wanted to get my grandchildren out of there."
They met my declaration with silence. In their silence, somehow, I began to remember.
"He was wearing long khaki shorts with lots of pockets and zippers. Oh, and he had on a shirt with ..." and I went on with a description. I had no idea that I could remember anything at all, but somehow, their silence caused me to remember and describe him to a "T," from his hat right down to his watch, his shoes, and his socks!
While I was on the phone, barely through describing him, the guard said, "We have him."
I responded with, "I just want to get my grandchildren out of here. Can I go home? I will give you my phone number and address."
They let me go home.
It occurs to me that I have not brought up the actions of the person on the phone at the zoo. That guard's non-responsive silence was what caused me to begin remembering. I have thanked the zoo several times for the way he did that. If he had started asking questions, I know me: I would have become flustered in an effort to remember the things asked. His silence left me free to remember without distraction. I have since learned that the police use this tactic and it works.
_____________________________
Abiyah
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
A tree's fruit is obvious; you have to look harder for the worm hole.
G-d has only one natural Son; EVERYONE else is adopted.
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RE: Daddy's taking us to the zoo tomorrow, zoo tomorrow... - 7/18/2008 12:18:45 PM
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DaveW
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He was not too happy about it. However, after the whole thing was brought out and there was evidence that he had done that at other school systems, I think charges were brought in Michigan as well. I do not know his current status except he is now a registered sex offender so can have no part in public or private ed ever again.
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Avatar is Saphira 5 months and Louvena at 23 months!
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RE: Daddy's taking us to the zoo tomorrow, zoo tomorrow... - 7/18/2008 12:22:09 PM
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Covaan_Meshuga
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But how is your cousin? It's all right if you don't want to say. I just thought you may have misunderstood my question -- "how is the young man today, etc.
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Abiyah
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
A tree's fruit is obvious; you have to look harder for the worm hole.
G-d has only one natural Son; EVERYONE else is adopted.
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RE: Daddy's taking us to the zoo tomorrow, zoo tomorrow... - 7/18/2008 3:21:22 PM
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DaveW
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Sorry I wasn't clear. My cousin was not happy about the guy getting out. Having the other charges waiting for the guy was encouraging, though.
AFAIK, he is fine now. He forgave him and moved on with his life. He teaches school and is married with a cute baby girl (about 2 now).
_____________________________
Avatar is Saphira 5 months and Louvena at 23 months!
We are now grandparents TWICE!!
====================================
Our CD is now available here:
http://cdbaby.com/cd/dswaggoner
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RE: Daddy's taking us to the zoo tomorrow, zoo tomorrow... - 7/18/2008 10:23:21 PM
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Covaan_Meshuga
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I'm sorry, Dave. I was so tired this morning that I didn't figure out what you had written until I was at work!! It was me. Thank you, though. Glad to know he is doing well. Very!
_____________________________
Abiyah
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
A tree's fruit is obvious; you have to look harder for the worm hole.
G-d has only one natural Son; EVERYONE else is adopted.
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RE: Daddy's taking us to the zoo tomorrow, zoo tomorrow... - 7/19/2008 9:50:04 AM
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Ellie-Mae
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I am glad that you caught him before he took your grandchild! I have reached out to help a child, but I always said something loud enough to alert the parent that I was there! I think that if I was doing something ok and was misunderstood, I would have tried to explain what happened. This guy does not sound innocent, especially when he was following you guys around without his class. I have never seen a teacher just wondering around the zoo without their class before... they are supposed to be either with their class or at a particular spot where they are needed.
Someone mentioned something about bathroom stalls and keeping an eye on your kids. The way I worked that one was to use the handicap stall with toddlers so we can stay together. When they got old enough to potty without help and could follow directions. I would put them in the stall and make sure it was locked. They did not unlock the stall until I was out of my own stall and came for them. Then we would wash our hands together.
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Isaiah 40:29
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292 more miles to go!
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RE: Daddy's taking us to the zoo tomorrow, zoo tomorrow... - 7/19/2008 4:21:03 PM
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Karaboo2
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Ellie-Mae
Someone mentioned something about bathroom stalls and keeping an eye on your kids. The way I worked that one was to use the handicap stall with toddlers so we can stay together. When they got old enough to potty without help and could follow directions. I would put them in the stall and make sure it was locked. They did not unlock the stall until I was out of my own stall and came for them. Then we would wash our hands together.
And people laugh at me because I do the same thing with my kids ... I'm being "too overprotective and smothering" in their opinion ... I'd rather be doing that than trying to describe my kids outfits and whatnot to a police officer once they've gone missing.
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Kara
I thought a thought, but the thought I thought wasn't the thought I thought I'd thought. So then I thought when I think a think, I'll write it down in pen and ink.
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RE: Daddy's taking us to the zoo tomorrow, zoo tomorrow... - 7/19/2008 4:46:18 PM
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Covaan_Meshuga
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I did the same thing, Ellie and Karaboo, after my first husband died. Before that, my son wasn't potty trained yet, but he would stay at the table with him while I took my daughter to the restroom. We never let her go alone, even though that was in the early to mid '70s.
After my husband was gone, I would take both children together to the restroom and use the handicap stall. When he was too old for that, I still, until he asked me not to, took him to the women's restroom, allowing him to use another stall.
That brought about one humorous moment for us in the restroom as well. I always made sure they had stalls right next to mine -- one on each side. One of those times, he and I flushed the toilets at the same time, and he called out, "Mom! We made a duet!" I could hear the two ladies who were waiting outside the stall doors snickering at that, while I answered back, "Yeah! We sure did!"
_____________________________
Abiyah
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
A tree's fruit is obvious; you have to look harder for the worm hole.
G-d has only one natural Son; EVERYONE else is adopted.
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RE: Daddy's taking us to the zoo tomorrow, zoo tomorrow... - 7/19/2008 5:55:14 PM
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DenimDiva
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This thread reminds me of going to K-Mart the other day. I saw a shopping cart moving through the parking lot. All of the sudden a car laid on it's horn! The car almost hit the shopping cart- which was being pushed by a little boy. The boy didn't look more than two years old. The little boys father was three cars over, half in and half out of his car, talking on his cell phone. He apologized and just told everyone that he got "distracted by the phone" and wasn't paying attention. | | |
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