RE: Why are criminal defendants not allowed to judge their own guilt?
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RE: Why are criminal defendants not allowed to judge th... - 7/27/2008 12:54:28 PM
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GHitch
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Carico
There are no hierarchies of sin in terms of determining man's guilt. Wrong as I explained with scripture refs. including an explanation of the James text. The measure of guilt is determined by light or knowledge, not the precept only.
quote:
Punishments, on the other hand are determined by hierarchies of sin. Yes and no, punishments are meted out based on the importance of the precept as well as the degree of knowledge of right and wrong the guilty party possessed at the moment of sin. Jesus, again, is the one who stated that punishment would be greater for the knowing than for the ignorant - and that, whatever the nature of the offense. But yes in the sense of importance of the precept broken - murder gets death robbery gets 4 fold restitution and so on.
quote:
Nevertheless, wolves in sheep's clothing go to hell just like any suicide who lacks faith in God. So your argument is moot because it doesn't make a suicide victim go to heaven I don't think you understood my argument - I said nothing of heaven or hell. And you still ignore the case of mentally ill persons.
And if I were you I would not be so quick as to pass judgment on suicides - only God sees all ends and all hearts. Only sees things as they really are.
He will judge them according to light that he alone possesses, taking all pros and cons, the law and justice in perfect consideration.
It is a common sin for Xians to speak as though they had the Lambs book of life in their possession - sending people to hell all the time with their mouths.
_____________________________
"The notion that not only the biopolymer but the operating program of a living cell could be arrived at by chance in a primordial organic soup here on the Earth is evidently nonsense of a high order." Sir F. Hoyle
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RE: Why are criminal defendants not allowed to judge th... - 7/27/2008 1:01:18 PM
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GHitch
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Carico
quote:
Sorry, but once the inside of the cup is washed by the Holy Spirit, the outside will become clean as well. So true repentance does indeed come from the heart which is also where feelings come from. Jesus said, "For out of the overflow of the heart the mouth speaks." This response makes no sense with regards to what I said. Explain please. I did not say the contrary.
Also - Feelings do not come from the heart. Will comes from the heart. ie. Choices. Feelings are physical or mind phenomenon by definition.
Feelings will follow thoughts.
quote:
True repentance is when the heart and mind act in accordance with each other. Sure. So...? Who said the contrary?
< Message edited by GHitch -- 7/27/2008 1:10:53 PM >
_____________________________
"The notion that not only the biopolymer but the operating program of a living cell could be arrived at by chance in a primordial organic soup here on the Earth is evidently nonsense of a high order." Sir F. Hoyle
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RE: Why are criminal defendants not allowed to judge th... - 7/27/2008 1:48:56 PM
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theo_book
Posts: 570
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quote:
ORIGINAL: GHitch
quote:
ORIGINAL: theo_book
Is there a difference between "repentance" and "TRUE repentance?" I did not know that. What is "false repentance?" Indeed there is. False repentance is like false Xians. Simple huh. Are there 'false brethren'? Indeed there are. So is there false repentance? Yes.
False conversion? Sure. False prophecy? Of course. Whatever God works, the enemy imitates to deceive through outward appearances.
False repentance abounds and anyone who has been in the church for while has no doubt seen it.
You can tell the real from the false in many ways :
True repentance causes a reformation of conduct.
True repentance leads to confession and restitution.
True repentance is a permanent change of character and conduct. 'fruit worthy of repentance'
Mat 3:8 Do those things that prove you have turned to God and have changed the way you think and act. GW
Mat 3:8 Produce fruit that is consistent with repentance! ISV
Mat 3:8 Therefore let your lives prove your change of heart; WNT
False repentance is founded in selfishness. Usually a desire to escape punishment alone rather than seeing the selfishness of the act and the harm it causes
False repentance produces only a partial reformation of conduct. No reformation = no real repentance
False repentance produces only a temporary change - which then results in the persons falling into the same sin worse than before afterwards.
Is there a difference between a "true Christian" and a REAL Christian?
Why do zealously religious people always seem to add superlatives to reality? I can remember when all it required was to be a Christian.
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RE: Why are criminal defendants not allowed to judge th... - 7/27/2008 11:31:54 PM
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Carico
Posts: 531
Joined: 8/19/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: GHitch
Carico
quote:
Sorry, but once the inside of the cup is washed by the Holy Spirit, the outside will become clean as well. So true repentance does indeed come from the heart which is also where feelings come from. Jesus said, "For out of the overflow of the heart the mouth speaks." This response makes no sense with regards to what I said. Explain please. I did not say the contrary.
Also - Feelings do not come from the heart. Will comes from the heart. ie. Choices. Feelings are physical or mind phenomenon by definition.
Feelings will follow thoughts.
quote:
True repentance is when the heart and mind act in accordance with each other. Sure. So...? Who said the contrary?
The heart always refers to feelings. The bible uses the term "hardened hearts" not to describe the mind but feelings. Compassion and love always come from the heart, not the mind which is why the bible refers to the heart as well as the mind.
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RE: Why are criminal defendants not allowed to judge th... - 7/28/2008 12:55:42 AM
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wayward1
Posts: 231
Joined: 7/15/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: theo_book
quote:
ORIGINAL: GHitch
quote:
ORIGINAL: theo_book
Is there a difference between "repentance" and "TRUE repentance?" I did not know that. What is "false repentance?" Indeed there is. False repentance is like false Xians. Simple huh. Are there 'false brethren'? Indeed there are. So is there false repentance? Yes.
False conversion? Sure. False prophecy? Of course. Whatever God works, the enemy imitates to deceive through outward appearances.
False repentance abounds and anyone who has been in the church for while has no doubt seen it.
You can tell the real from the false in many ways :
True repentance causes a reformation of conduct.
True repentance leads to confession and restitution.
True repentance is a permanent change of character and conduct. 'fruit worthy of repentance'
Mat 3:8 Do those things that prove you have turned to God and have changed the way you think and act. GW
Mat 3:8 Produce fruit that is consistent with repentance! ISV
Mat 3:8 Therefore let your lives prove your change of heart; WNT
False repentance is founded in selfishness. Usually a desire to escape punishment alone rather than seeing the selfishness of the act and the harm it causes
False repentance produces only a partial reformation of conduct. No reformation = no real repentance
False repentance produces only a temporary change - which then results in the persons falling into the same sin worse than before afterwards.
Is there a difference between a "true Christian" and a REAL Christian?
Why do zealously religious people always seem to add superlatives to reality? I can remember when all it required was to be a Christian.
No, there isn't any difference at all, Theo. Your assessment is exactly correct. There is a difference between unrepentance and repentance, but repentance is true in the eyes of God when it is simply, repentance. If it is false repentance then to God it will be regarded as unrepentance. Humans do not need to explain to other humans how important it is to "truly repent". I think that much is quite well established.
Your opinion of the excessive use of superlatives is precisely correct and I don't know how you aren't pushed away from religion by the zealots you speak of. It was one of the first things that "revealed" to me that faith wasn't lending itself to the grace I sought in my life. Higher degrees of religiosity seemed only to correspond to unwavering certainty and intolerance. I began to fear such people, and it drove me to a book a week reading frenzy that broke my faith. It has never returned. The zealous, should really think about what they're doing to their faith.
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RE: Why are criminal defendants not allowed to judge th... - 7/28/2008 7:37:48 AM
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theo_book
Posts: 570
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quote:
(GHitch) True repentance is a permanent change of character and conduct. 'fruit worthy of repentance'
Jesus didn't know that.
"Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times?
22 Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven." [Mat 18:21-22]
Is it possible you are listening too much to the zealots? Jesus had problems with them too, but he faced them down, he didn't join them.
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RE: Why are criminal defendants not allowed to judge th... - 7/28/2008 7:47:06 AM
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theo_book
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quote:
(theo) Is there a difference between a "true Christian" and a REAL Christian?
Why do zealously religious people always seem to add superlatives to reality? I can remember when all it required was to be a Christian.
(wayward1) No, there isn't any difference at all, Theo. Your assessment is exactly correct. There is a difference between unrepentance and repentance, but repentance is true in the eyes of God when it is simply, repentance. If it is false repentance then to God it will be regarded as unrepentance. Humans do not need to explain to other humans how important it is to "truly repent". I think that much is quite well established.
Your opinion of the excessive use of superlatives is precisely correct and I don't know how you aren't pushed away from religion by the zealots you speak of. It was one of the first things that "revealed" to me that faith wasn't lending itself to the grace I sought in my life. Higher degrees of religiosity seemed only to correspond to unwavering certainty and intolerance. I began to fear such people, and it drove me to a book a week reading frenzy that broke my faith. It has never returned. The zealous, should really think about what they're doing to their faith.
The question should be "What are YOU (wayward1) doing to YOUR faith?
"Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord." [Rom 8:35-39]
My heart goes out to you as to a brother in need. My soul weeps for your pain. My prayers go to a higher plane - May He help you to regain that simplicity you once had in Christ. Do not listen to the superlatives of zealousy. Listen to your heart while you confess to your redeemer, not your sins, but your love for him, as it remains but has simply been separated by things that do not matter at all.
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RE: Why are criminal defendants not allowed to judge th... - 7/28/2008 9:37:35 AM
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Carico
Posts: 531
Joined: 8/19/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: GHitch
quote:
ORIGINAL: Carico
There are no hierarchies of sin in terms of determining man's guilt. Wrong as I explained with scripture refs. including an explanation of the James text. The measure of guilt is determined by light or knowledge, not the precept only.
quote:
Punishments, on the other hand are determined by hierarchies of sin. Yes and no, punishments are meted out based on the importance of the precept as well as the degree of knowledge of right and wrong the guilty party possessed at the moment of sin. Jesus, again, is the one who stated that punishment would be greater for the knowing than for the ignorant - and that, whatever the nature of the offense. But yes in the sense of importance of the precept broken - murder gets death robbery gets 4 fold restitution and so on.
quote:
Nevertheless, wolves in sheep's clothing go to hell just like any suicide who lacks faith in God. So your argument is moot because it doesn't make a suicide victim go to heaven I don't think you understood my argument - I said nothing of heaven or hell. And you still ignore the case of mentally ill persons.
And if I were you I would not be so quick as to pass judgment on suicides - only God sees all ends and all hearts. Only sees things as they really are.
He will judge them according to light that he alone possesses, taking all pros and cons, the law and justice in perfect consideration.
It is a common sin for Xians to speak as though they had the Lambs book of life in their possession - sending people to hell all the time with their mouths.
Sorry but again, the person who commits one sin is guilty of breaking the whole law as James says. The one who commits many sins cannot break more laws than the whole law. So they are both guilty of the same thing. So you are incorrect because again, you're thinking in human terms not how God looks upon even one sin.
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RE: Why are criminal defendants not allowed to judge th... - 7/28/2008 12:19:55 PM
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GHitch
Posts: 178
Joined: 7/6/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: theo_book
Is there a difference between a "true Christian" and a REAL Christian? No.
quote:
Why do zealously religious people always seem to add superlatives to reality? I can remember when all it required was to be a Christian. It's because there are so many professing Christianity who do no demonstrate it at all in their lives. Everyone thinks they're 'saved', and so many claim to be Christian these days. Simply put, there are false brethren just as there are false doctrines.
_____________________________
"The notion that not only the biopolymer but the operating program of a living cell could be arrived at by chance in a primordial organic soup here on the Earth is evidently nonsense of a high order." Sir F. Hoyle
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RE: Why are criminal defendants not allowed to judge th... - 7/28/2008 12:27:50 PM
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GHitch
Posts: 178
Joined: 7/6/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Carico
The heart always refers to feelings. The bible uses the term "hardened hearts" not to describe the mind but feelings. Compassion and love always come from the heart, not the mind which is why the bible refers to the heart as well as the mind.
We'll have to disagree on that. The heart does not refer to mere feelings, but the inner most part of our being - our spiritual self from which comes our will. Comnpassion and love come from the heart in the sense of will, otherwise they are mere feelings without merit. Feelings have no inherent value.
Compassion and love are choices of the heart, not feelings. Compassion is actually an attribute of love. Love is right willing, willing the highest good or well-being of God and others.
There is no such thing as a virtuous feeling - only virtuous willing or choosing, or a virtuous state of the will - the ultimate heart - the center of who we really are.
_____________________________
"The notion that not only the biopolymer but the operating program of a living cell could be arrived at by chance in a primordial organic soup here on the Earth is evidently nonsense of a high order." Sir F. Hoyle
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RE: Why are criminal defendants not allowed to judge th... - 7/28/2008 12:34:51 PM
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GHitch
Posts: 178
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quote:
ORIGINAL: theo_book
Jesus didn't know that.
"Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times?
22 Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven." [Mat 18:21-22]
Is it possible you are listening too much to the zealots? Jesus had problems with them too, but he faced them down, he didn't join them. Jesus certainly did know that. What he was refering to in your quote is that we are not to question ones repentance but constantly forgive. That has nothing to do with whether the person truly repented or not. We may certainly question a person who claims repentance but continues on in his sin as though never repenting. But we are not allowed to refuse forgiveness to one who asks.
You know them by their fruit. No good fruit (worthy of repentance) = very questionable repentance.
If by zealots you mean the Pharisees et al. then here's a question for you:
Did Jesus forgive the Pharisees while he lived?
_____________________________
"The notion that not only the biopolymer but the operating program of a living cell could be arrived at by chance in a primordial organic soup here on the Earth is evidently nonsense of a high order." Sir F. Hoyle
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RE: Why are criminal defendants not allowed to judge th... - 7/28/2008 12:58:05 PM
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GHitch
Posts: 178
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Carico
Sorry but again, the person who commits one sin is guilty of breaking the whole law as James says. The one who commits many sins cannot break more laws than the whole law. So they are both guilty of the same thing. So you are incorrect because again, you're thinking in human terms not how God looks upon even one sin.
Oh please spare me the 'human terms' nonsense accusation. It's such a childish tactict of trying to get one's own will (view) done or imposed as one thinks it is in heaven. And that IS typically human thinking within Christianity. Everyone thinks their version is God's. Very immature. That's why there are over 33,000 denominations. They ALL believe their view is the right one! Amazing.
You seem to conflate a single specific sin with the state of being in sin. There is a difference.
The law is a unit. Every transgression is breaking the whole law because of that fact.
Break any specific law = breaking the law as a whole. You burn a red light you've broken "the Law" as a whole. But you have not committed murder.
It does not mean being guilty of having broken every specific law, if that's what you're saying.
The moral law is whole. "You shall love". All specific precepts are in accordance with that one principle and every sin is breaking that law.
It's single command is to love (choose the good) so every sin is breaking the single law of love.
However, committing a specific sin, say adultery, is not committing every sin - murder, jealousy, rape, blasphemy etc.. It is sinning against the royal law which is the law of love or disinterested right choosing.
In that sense alone can a specific sin be considered breaking the whole law. Iow, only in the sense of the oneness or unity of the law can James text be interpreted correctly.
Under the sense you seem to present here, there would be no sense even defining specific sins for they would all be equal and indistinguishable both in guilt and punishment.
I'm afraid it is you who are thinking in human terms rather than in the biblical principles of moral law and it's very nature.
_____________________________
"The notion that not only the biopolymer but the operating program of a living cell could be arrived at by chance in a primordial organic soup here on the Earth is evidently nonsense of a high order." Sir F. Hoyle
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RE: Why are criminal defendants not allowed to judge th... - 7/28/2008 1:35:53 PM
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theo_book
Posts: 570
Joined: 4/8/2008
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quote:
(theo)Jesus didn't know that.
"Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times?
22 Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven." [Mat 18:21-22]
Is it possible you are listening too much to the zealots? Jesus had problems with them too, but he faced them down, he didn't join them.
Jesus certainly did know that. What he was refering to in your quote is that we are not to question ones repentance but constantly forgive. That has nothing to do with whether the person truly repented or not. We may certainly question a person who claims repentance but continues on in his sin as though never repenting. But we are not allowed to refuse forgiveness to one who asks.
Now it's getting silly. You judge a man's repentence by predetermined significances, but if he asks for forgiveness you will forgive him? Even when you judge his repentence to be "false?"
quote:
(GHitch) If by zealots you mean the Pharisees et al. then here's a question for you: Did Jesus forgive the Pharisees while he lived?
By "zealots" I include the Pharisees, but not all zealots are Pharisees, by any means.
And Jesus for gave all men. That is who he came to die for.
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RE: Why are criminal defendants not allowed to judge th... - 7/28/2008 4:04:25 PM
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GHitch
Posts: 178
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quote:
ORIGINAL: theo_book
Now it's getting silly. You judge a man's repentence by predetermined significances, but if he asks for forgiveness you will forgive him? Even when you judge his repentence to be "false?" Silly? The bible tells us to judge by it's own 'predetermined significances' as you call them in case you didn't notice - "you shall know them by their fruit". "You will know them by what they produce" (GW) Mat 7:16
"Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment" (John 7:24).
And whether I judge a man's repentance true or not is irrelevant to the command to forgive. We are nowhere commanded to forgive based on how we discern the other's repentance. And in many cases we should forgive preemptively - before the other even asks. Like God does with us so many times.
Ask a judge what he does when he deems a man's repentance to be false. They may be mistaken. Christ is no dupe of the deceptions of the heart, but we may well be mistaken.
quote:
And Jesus for gave all men. That is who he came to die for. So all men must be going to heaven then? Or do they go to hell forgiven?
He had a funny way of demonstrating his forgiveness towards the thieves in the temple. And a funny way of showing it towards Pharisees in Mat 23.... And a strange way of showing it to those who die unrepentant.
I think you're just quibbling.
_____________________________
"The notion that not only the biopolymer but the operating program of a living cell could be arrived at by chance in a primordial organic soup here on the Earth is evidently nonsense of a high order." Sir F. Hoyle
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RE: Why are criminal defendants not allowed to judge th... - 7/28/2008 7:00:27 PM
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theo_book
Posts: 570
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Your question was
quote:
(GHitch) If by zealots you mean the Pharisees et al. then here's a question for you: Did Jesus forgive the Pharisees while he lived?
My response addressed the issue of whether Jesus forgave the Pharisees WHILE HE LIVED."
Jesus forgave all of those who sinned against him, by virtue of his death.
You are now addressing an entirely different issue. Did the Pharisees sin AFTER they were forgiven? Were they forgiven at THEIR deaths? Not the same issue as that addressed by your question.
quote:
(GHitch) I think you're just quibbling.
I think you didn't realize your question was as broad as it obviously was. You asked me if Jesus forgave the Pharisees. What you failed to include in your question was the scope of that forgiveness; i.,e., eternal or temporary, only for their lifetime, which was subject to further sin.
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RE: Why are criminal defendants not allowed to judge th... - 7/28/2008 7:08:50 PM
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earthless
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Theo,
Are you saying that everyone is saved? That every single person that has ever lived is born-again?
_____________________________
Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: Why are criminal defendants not allowed to judge th... - 7/28/2008 7:19:44 PM
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theo_book
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quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
Theo,
Are you saying that everyone is saved? That every single person that has ever lived is born-again?
No. I am saying Jesus forgave those who sinned by virtue of his death on the cross. Are you saying there were some whose sins were not forgiven on the cross? Of course not. But that would be the consequence of his NOT forgiving the Pharisees. THAT is the focus of the death of Jesus. THAT is the scope of his death. ALL sin was forgiven.
THAT does NOT pre-forgive those who sin later. THEY have a pattern they must follow, like aknowledgement, (confession); repentence; restitution (where applicable); new way of doing things.
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RE: Why are criminal defendants not allowed to judge th... - 7/28/2008 7:26:01 PM
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earthless
Posts: 6209
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quote:
ORIGINAL: theo_book
quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
Theo,
Are you saying that everyone is saved? That every single person that has ever lived is born-again?
No. I am saying Jesus forgave those who sinned by virtue of his death on the cross. Are you saying there were some whose sins were not forgiven on the cross? Of course not. But that would be the consequence of his NOT forgiving the Pharisees. THAT is the focus of the death of Jesus. THAT is the scope of his death. ALL sin was forgiven.
THAT does NOT pre-forgive those who sin later. THEY have a pattern they must follow, like aknowledgement, (confession); repentence; restitution (where applicable); new way of doing things.
It seems as if you're saying two different things now. On one hand it sounds as if you believe "God loves everyone" - He does not.
And on the other hand, in the latter part of your post, it sounds like you're saying that a person that is born-again today... only their past sins are forgiven, not their future ones.
Please correct me if I am misunderstanding you.
_____________________________
Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: Why are criminal defendants not allowed to judge th... - 7/28/2008 7:43:55 PM
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evry1needsgod
Posts: 500
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quote:
I am saying Jesus forgave those who sinned by virtue of his death on the cross.
Can you elaborate? I think a clear understanding of this quote will make things much easier.
quote:
Are you saying there were some whose sins were not forgiven on the cross?
Well, is this not true? Here's how I see it, and perhaps I'm wrong. Jesus died for everyone. What that means is Jesus died to give everyone an opportunity. BUT, no, Jesus' death did not forgive everyone's sins. If that were so, you would be a Universalist, which in my opinion, contradicts every aspect of Scripture. So yes, I have to agree that there were some who's sins were not forgiven at the cross. Those individuals are the one's who choose NOT to accept God's grace offered to us at the cross. Am I correct?
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RE: Why are criminal defendants not allowed to judge th... - 7/28/2008 8:02:35 PM
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theo_book
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quote:
(theo) I am saying Jesus forgave those who sinned by virtue of his death on the cross. Are you saying there were some whose sins were not forgiven on the cross? Of course not. But that would be the consequence of his NOT forgiving the Pharisees. THAT is the focus of the death of Jesus. THAT is the scope of his death. ALL sin was forgiven.
THAT does NOT pre-forgive those who sin later. THEY have a pattern they must follow, like aknowledgement, (confession); repentence; restitution (where applicable); new way of doing things.
(earthless) It seems as if you're saying two different things now. On one hand it sounds as if you believe "God loves everyone" - He does not.
(theo) "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved." [John 3:16-17]
Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel? 32 For I have no pleasure in the death of him that dieth, saith the Lord GOD: wherefore turn yourselves, and live ye." [Eze 18:31-32]
quote:
(earthless) And on the other hand, in the latter part of your post, it sounds like you're saying that a person that is born-again today... only their past sins are forgiven, not their future ones.
Please correct me if I am misunderstanding you.
(theo) The whole debt of sin was paid at the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross of Calvary. That sacrifice is freely offered to all men. Some men do not care to take up the offer. By rejecting Jesus, they sin again, to their own detriment.
All sin must be removed from the account of the sinner. Once removed, through new sin, it can accumulate again. The remedy for those sins that occur after one is born again, is aknowledgment, repentence, restitution (if possible) and prayer.
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RE: Why are criminal defendants not allowed to judge th... - 7/28/2008 8:05:39 PM
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earthless
Posts: 6209
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: where pigeons are wearing sweaters....
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quote:
ORIGINAL: theo_book
All sin must be removed from the account of the sinner. Once removed, through new sin, it can accumulate again. The remedy for those sins that occur after one is born again, is aknowledgment, repentence, restitution (if possible) and prayer.
So yes, you are indeed saying that Jesus did not atone for all sin on the cross?
If I, a born-again, washed in the blood believer, walk out of this building.. cross the street and think an impure thought and then immediately get smashed by a truck.... I am now dead and eternally separated from God?
Is that what you're saying?
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Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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